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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:20 AM
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I'm my younger years I've probably been pulled over a dozen times (been ticket free since 1992) and have never been asked about having firearms or other weapons. Years ago on new years eve I was driving my pickup with several drunk friends riding in the back with open containers. We got stopped and the police made my friends dump out their beers and then started to go though the cab. I had an unloaded handgun in my backpack behind the seat and told the officer about it. He said he didn't care and was just looking for any other open containers. He didn't find any and let us go on our way

Last edited by delta9; 02-22-2013 at 8:23 AM..
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  #82  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P.Charm View Post
am I under arrest? I want to speak to a lawyer.
Any time you are stopped in a vehicle you are by definition "under arrest" and signing the ticket is "making bail." That's why people who refuse to sign the tickets get a free ride to the pokie.

WRT to the OP's question, which comes up pretty often - you have to decide what to do if you ever find yourself in that situation.

If you say yes, CA law says the PD can inspect the guns to make sure they are being transported legally.

If you say no, one of two things will happen - the officer will nod sagely and proceed with wrapping up the stop, or a roadside debate will ensue, in which your car will probably ned up being searched despite your protests. Heaven forbid you acatually have guns - free trip to the pokie with a charge of obstruction (aka contempt of cop).

If you say nothing or tell him you plead the 5th, one of two things will happen - the officer will nod sagely and proceed with wrapping up the stop, or a roadside debate will ensue, in which your car will probably ned up being searched despite your protests. Heaven forbid you acatually have guns - free trip to the pokie with a charge of obstruction (aka contempt of cop).

Without indicting any agency, if a LEO wants to search your vehicle, they're going to do it. At the end of the day, the only person on the losing end is you, no matter the outcome. The LEO is on the clock, and if they make a mistake they have well established "good faith" defenses in place, whereas you (in hte worst case scenario) are out time, money, possibly your guns (even if temporarily) and more importantly you may very well fail your next DROS because the system isn't updated and only shows you were arrested.

In all the times I've ever been stopped (used to get stopped a LOT), I've never been asked the question. The one time I was stopped and actually carrying (loaded on a belt holster for work) I notified the deputy (LASD) as soon as he walked up to the car. Fortunately he recognized the uniform and all was good.
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It was not a threat. It was an exaggerated response to an uncompromising stance. I was taught never to make a threat unless you are prepared to carry it out and I am not a fan of carrying anything. Even watching other people carrying things makes me uncomfortable. Mainly because of the possibility they may ask me to help.

Last edited by A-J; 02-22-2013 at 9:08 AM..
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  #83  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:14 AM
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If I have all my weapons locked and in the bed of my truck during transport, can I still say no if the cop asks "do you have weapons in the vehicle?""
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  #84  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:17 AM
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You can always say no. If they search you after you say no you have illegal search and seisure on your side, unless you give them another reason for PC. "Just say no!". It is really not that difficult to comprehend.
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  #85  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:31 AM
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The only time you are likely to be asked about guns is if you were pulled over leaving a gun shop or range, or if you have some gun accessory visible (a holster, targets, ammo)

If it is in the trunk, or otherwise out of sight, they won't ask.
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  #86  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-J View Post
If you say nothing or tell him you plead the 5th, one of two things will happen - the officer will nod sagely and proceed with wrapping up the stop, or a roadside debate will ensue, in which your car will probably ned up being searched despite your protests. Heaven forbid you acatually have guns - free trip to the pokie with a charge of obstruction (aka contempt of cop).
are you saying this is a charge you would possibly receive on the whim of the cop, or something you believe would stick
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  #87  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:37 AM
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Maybe you would like to let them feel up your junk while your at it



Quote:
Originally Posted by A-J View Post
Any time you are stopped in a vehicle you are by definition "under arrest" and signing the ticket is "making bail." That's why people who refuse to sign the tickets get a free ride to the pokie.

WRT to the OP's question, which comes up pretty often - you have to decide what to do if you ever find yourself in that situation.

If you say yes, CA law says the PD can inspect the guns to make sure they are being transported legally.

If you say no, one of two things will happen - the officer will nod sagely and proceed with wrapping up the stop, or a roadside debate will ensue, in which your car will probably ned up being searched despite your protests. Heaven forbid you acatually have guns - free trip to the pokie with a charge of obstruction (aka contempt of cop).

If you say nothing or tell him you plead the 5th, one of two things will happen - the officer will nod sagely and proceed with wrapping up the stop, or a roadside debate will ensue, in which your car will probably ned up being searched despite your protests. Heaven forbid you acatually have guns - free trip to the pokie with a charge of obstruction (aka contempt of cop).

Without indicting any agency, if a LEO wants to search your vehicle, they're going to do it. At the end of the day, the only person on the losing end is you, no matter the outcome. The LEO is on the clock, and if they make a mistake they have well established "good faith" defenses in place, whereas you (in hte worst case scenario) are out time, money, possibly your guns (even if temporarily) and more importantly you may very well fail your next DROS because the system isn't updated and only shows you were arrested.

In all the times I've ever been stopped (used to get stopped a LOT), I've never been asked the question. The one time I was stopped and actually carrying (loaded on a belt holster for work) I notified the deputy (LASD) as soon as he walked up to the car. Fortunately he recognized the uniform and all was good.
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  #88  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
If it's not illegal, it does not matter.
What is and isn't illegal is often highly debatable. Especially when it comes to guns.
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  #89  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Worst answer ever!!! They didn't ask you if you had anything illegal in your car! Firearms properly stowed are not illegal.

This answer just raised the idea of a lie.

The best answer is silence or " i do not wish to discuss the inventory of my vehicle." If they begin to search, you tell them you do not consent to a search.
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Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
Because you don't think that will get their attention?

Really, you need to think this through a bit better.
YES i have thought it through many times and its been discussed here MANY times.

First, telling them you have nothing illegal in the car raises suspicion because thats not the question they asked you.

NOW you look stupid for answering a question that was not asked of you.

At least if you let them know, that YOU know, you don't have to discuss what is in the privacy of your vehicle, they know that you know "the game"

Personally when confront with LE i would never associate the word "illegal" to any statement i make to LE or anyone for that matter

If they find probable cause and search your vehicle and DO find something illegal that you forgot about, you have now lied about something illegal.

IF they choose to search your car and find weapons properly locked up, SO WHAT! What can they arrest you for??? Its not illegal to have firearms properly stowed in your car.

Not to mention that IF you tell them you have firearms it is a free ticket for them to check those weapons. If they are asking to see weapons, it means they don't know whats in the case or they don't know you have them. If they did know, they wouldn't be asking.
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  #90  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
are you saying this is a charge you would possibly receive on the whim of the cop, or something you believe would stick
Obstruction is one of those "add on" type charges, like "resisting arrest" that often do not result in conviction. Especially hwen the underlying arrest is invalidated. That doesn't prevent people from being charged with those offenses though. Don't forget - the threshold for "enough for arrest" versus "enough to convict" are vastly separated. It does not take a whole lot to make an arrest happen. It takes a lot to get a conviction.

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Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
Maybe you would like to let them feel up your junk while your at it
No - that's the TSA's job. I don't advocate any particular position in the OP's hypothetical situation. I advocate that each person make up their own damn mind and do what they feel is best *for them*. I am not my brother's keeper, and I'm not a lawyer.

I will say with absolute certainty that CPC 25850 does not say you are *required* to say you have guns in the vehicle. It makes possession of a loaded gun in public illegal (generally speaking - there are exceptions), and allows LEOs to check to confirm it's unloaded.

Quote:
25850. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
(b) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.

Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.
Although refusing to answer the question, or answering no could in theory be twisted as being synonymous with "refusing to allow" by a LEO who really has it in for you for some reason. Probably not good enough for a conviction, but it could certainly be enough for arrest.
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Last edited by A-J; 02-22-2013 at 10:17 AM..
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  #91  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-J View Post
Obstruction is one of those "add on" type charges, like "resisting arrest" that often do not result in conviction. Especially hwen the underlying arrest is invalidated. That doesn't prevent people from being charged with those offenses though. Don't forget - the threshold for "enough for arrest" versus "enough to convict" are vastly separated. It does not take a whole lot to make an arrest happen. It takes a lot to get a conviction.
ok, just checking to make sure you were not saying that would be a legitimate charge. if this were to happen and they go that far you would probably end up with a possession of assault weapon(s) charge and several others that are blatantly just cooked up. While that is totally BS, I dont see giving up your right to privacy just to avoid this, but each person has to decide what is "too far" for themselves
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  #92  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:13 AM
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I was told by an attorney who exclusively only handles Firearm related cases, that in California, when the police run your car license, their computers SHOW if you are a Handgun owner, it lists your hand guns; they are linked in with that information. They ask for safety reasons.

I am still unsure what the proper answer is to the question if you are asked, "do you have any firearms in the car". Isn't lying to law enforcement authorities some sort penal code violation in itself ?
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  #93  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaS View Post
The only time you are likely to be asked about guns is if you were pulled over leaving a gun shop or range, or if you have some gun accessory visible (a holster, targets, ammo)

If it is in the trunk, or otherwise out of sight, they won't ask.
This. I really don't understand the paranoia, do you think that owning a gun makes you drive differently? I've been stopped before, not 'regularly' or often; NEVER been asked about firearms or weapons. Why would that change after buying a gun?
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  #94  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:28 AM
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never once been asked if i have any firearms in the car been asked a lot of times if i have anything illegal in the car. I never did so non-issue
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  #95  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrangler John View Post
Gee, these are really useless threads.
Don't read'm.
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  #96  
Old 02-22-2013, 12:00 PM
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Since it is not illegal to lie to a state law officer just say no, if he wants to search then tell him you do not consent to a search, it is now in his ball park if he feels he can come up with PC to search, refusing consent is not PC because you are under no obligation to give up your rights.
Any time you act like an smart *** with an officer you will most definitely peak his curiosity, it always did with me.
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  #97  
Old 02-22-2013, 12:59 PM
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I was pulled over in my motorcycle and was asked if I had a gun bomb bazooka or any other thing deadly or dangerous to the chipper. Of corse the answer was no since it was true.

To day I would probably ask if he considered doughnuts to qualify or maybe some noodles that don't meet senator Yee's Assault noodle flow chart! lmao
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  #98  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlyme View Post
I was pulled over in my motorcycle and was asked if I had a gun bomb bazooka or any other thing deadly or dangerous to the chipper. Of corse the answer was no since it was true.

To day I would probably ask if he considered doughnuts to qualify or maybe some noodles that don't meet senator Yee's Assault noodle flow chart! lmao
why yes officer, I have some 5 hour old noodles right here
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  #99  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:10 PM
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Rather than obsfucate with a general "I have nothing illegal in the car", which leaves questions.
Try redirecting with "Sir, I have a pocketknife in my pocket, but it is a tool, not a weapon." which directs his attention to the knife which is obviously legal. FWIW I've been asked about "weapons" on one occasion but never "firearms".
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  #100  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
I would fall back on "Officer, what has that got to do with the reason you stopped me?"
Does that actually work?
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  #101  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:57 PM
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Seems like a lot of "puffery" here from ficticious stops thay may or may not happen.

OP - You can say nothing. You can say "nothing illegal sir". You can say "I choose not to answer until my lawyer is here". You can say "I do not consent to a search". You can say "Am I free to go". You can say all the cool bold yes you have a right to say stuff quoted above.

But will you under pressure having just left the range . . .

In the real world for those of us who don't want to get arrested, taken to jail then later released when the charges will get dropped why go through this game??

My guns are locked in a hard case. My mags are empty and locked in my range bag. My ammo is locked in a seperate compartment in my range bag. All locked in the trunk.

If and when I ever get pulled over leaving the range and asked "do you have anything illegal or anything I should be worried about" my answer will be "no".

If asked "do you have a gun in the car" My answer will be "yes sir and it is locked properly in the trunk".

I know it's not the typical forum answer but for me, I'm legal and if he wants to do a search he's going to anyway. Why make it a pain for him and me.

Just my opinion and I will live with my choices.

You have to decide for yourself.
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  #102  
Old 02-22-2013, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by penguin0123 View Post
Sir, we are going have to ask you to come back to the station on suspicion of firearms theft.
Ask means you say no thank you.
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  #103  
Old 02-22-2013, 2:37 PM
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I have never been asked that question when stopped, but have thought about it a lot. I have never been a fan of "I have nothing illegal in my car Officer". After reading multiple threads and opinions on it, AND knowing the law and my rights, I know how I will answer for good or ill.

When asked I will say the following, in a very respectful and sincere manner...Why on earth would you ask me something like that?
This hopefully throws him off balance and before he can answer, quickly following up with:
Are you actively investigating a crime or have reason to believe a crime is or about to be committed?... and is that why you stopped me?

Hopefully he commits and says no, (no probable cause for a search) but more importantly, tells him that I know my rights, and that he's not going to have much success in his fishing expedition. But rather than it turning confrontational, it needs to be real, that we are both just 2 people trying to get our business done; me my errands, him just doing his job... so I'll add...
Look, I know you're just doing your job and I respect that, I really do. We're both Good Guys here, but at the same time I realize you don't know that about me. So, I'd rather we stick to the reason you pulled me over. Here is my license, registration and insurance.

Hopefully that will be the end of it. If not, and the questioning continues, and it's clear that the Officer is intent on exercising his "Authoratay" over me, then the old "am I being detained or am I free to go" line will come out, and if necessary, a refusal of consent to a search, request a supervisor be called to the scene, etc. etc. and generally keeping my mouth shut. When I transport, I transport legally. I have developed a 6th sense about people in my profession, in the same way every Officer does in his. So I rely on that fact; that he can distinguish me as what I am.... a law abiding citizen... who knows his rights.

No matter what I'm doing or where I'm going, I'll always take time out of my day to exercise my rights if I'm called upon to, and, most especially, when I'm unnecessarily put into a position of having to. YMMV
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  #104  
Old 02-22-2013, 2:49 PM
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got pulled over a few weeks ago on the way to Las Vegas, the cop saw the 3 rifle cases in our back seat but didnt ask us anything about it. I have never been asked if I had weapons in my car and ive been pulled over a LOT in the past.
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  #105  
Old 02-22-2013, 3:33 PM
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I use the Active Camouflage Technique.

I airsoft a lot, quite avidly. I mingle the real firearms in with the airsoft guns. I've been stopped 3 times in the past decade, and asked if I had any guns in the car because of exposed rifle bags.

"Yes, Officer, Airsoft. I airsoft a lot, its my workout. Wanna see?" On 2 occasions I was asked to produce the guns out of the bag (early 2000's) so the policeman could go "OH! COOL!" and take pictures. Now they're kinda meh on airsoft gear. Overdone.

(Never mind the two real firearms in the cases... tee hee)
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  #106  
Old 02-22-2013, 3:58 PM
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Officer - "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?"
You - (raising your hands slightly above the wheel and making fists) - "Just these and they're legal."
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  #107  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:10 PM
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and don't drive a lifted 4x4 with tinted windows ...
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  #108  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:32 PM
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Screw face up in shock and confusion "Why would you even ask me that?"

If they can't answer, then they have just given you proof that they did not even have an articulable suspicion, let alone probable cause to open that line of investigation.
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Old 02-22-2013, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
"There is nothing illegal in the car" is all you need to say.

Even this is TOO much to tell them because you have admitted to something.

"Am I the object of an investigation?"
"Am I free to go?"
"Why am I being detained?"
"May I call my lawyer?"

Do not answer their questions, but rather pose your own.
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Put you link where your opinion is.
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Old 02-22-2013, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by retiredAFcop View Post
Screw face up in shock and confusion "Why would you even ask me that?"

If they can't answer, then they have just given you proof that they did not even have an articulable suspicion, let alone probable cause to open that line of investigation.

I like that one
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"The 'Spray and Pray' system advances triumphantly in law enforcement. In a recent case in a southwestern city...a police officer, when threatened with a handgun, emptied his 15 shot pistol at his would-be assailant, achieving two peripheral hits. The citizen was charged with brandishing a firearm, but the cop was not charged with anything, lousy shooting not being a diciplinary offense."
--- Jeff Cooper, June 1990

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Originally Posted by EM2
Put you link where your opinion is.
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  #111  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:13 PM
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Chrisc308 Chrisc308 is offline
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Just keep a knife in your truck and say "I keep a small knife under the seat, if you consider that a weapon".
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  #112  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:20 PM
Southwest Chuck Southwest Chuck is offline
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Originally Posted by retiredAFcop View Post
Screw face up in shock and confusion "Why would you even ask me that?"

If they can't answer, then they have just given you proof that they did not even have an articulable suspicion, let alone probable cause to open that line of investigation.
Exactly !
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I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
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Go cheap you will always have cheap and if you sell, it will sell for even cheaper. Buy the best you can every time.
^^^ Wise Man. Take his advice
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  #113  
Old 02-22-2013, 6:01 PM
michaelnel michaelnel is offline
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If I am legally carrying my handgun in a locked box, unloaded, and locked in the trunk of my car, I am going to say "yes officer, I have a legal and unloaded weapon locked in a box in my locked trunk".

Why shouldn't I say that?

Seems a lot of you folks don't understand that in a traffic stop the very first thing you need to do is to PASS THE ATTITUDE CHECK. If you do, you're not going to get in trouble.
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  #114  
Old 02-22-2013, 6:25 PM
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Scott Connors Scott Connors is offline
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Originally Posted by michaelnel View Post
If I am legally carrying my handgun in a locked box, unloaded, and locked in the trunk of my car, I am going to say "yes officer, I have a legal and unloaded weapon locked in a box in my locked trunk".

Why shouldn't I say that?

Seems a lot of you folks don't understand that in a traffic stop the very first thing you need to do is to PASS THE ATTITUDE CHECK. If you do, you're not going to get in trouble.
I think that one of the unspoken assumptions in this thread is that forthcoming legislation, even though it will almost certainly be overturned as overreaching, will poison any interaction with LE that involves any type of firearm, let alone the types that interest most of us.
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  #115  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:26 PM
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I put up both arms clench my biceps and say"welcome to the gun show admission is free". If my wife is in the car I have her do the same!
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  #116  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by otteray View Post
I got my California Motor Vehicle License in 1966, drive just about every day and have never been asked by a cop about firearms in all those many years. You worry too much. Follow the rules of the road, drive defensively, keep your vehicle in tip top shape and you should have an uneventful lifetime of driving.
Got mine in 1978, same here on my experiences. Got a few tickets, never been searched, don't worry any more.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
-- John Dean "Jeff" Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
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  #117  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:10 PM
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SwissFluCase SwissFluCase is offline
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I do my best to look and act like a "1 percenter" when I am out and about. I have found that an utter look of disgust with a very polite demeanor works wonders. They can't wait to get away from me. In the few times I have been pulled over I have almost had them kissing My hiney by the roadside. Just so you know, those who know how to read body language know that disgust is unresolvabe, and is an indication that they should stop wasting time and move on the next interview.

Regards,


SwissFluCase
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  #118  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:15 PM
Tmckinney Tmckinney is offline
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Never answer questions without counsel. You may not have any clue as to the real reason you were pulled over. It could be because your car looks like one that just cut some one off, but you have now clue. So when the cops asks if you looked behind you before you changed lanes and you say yes, it now means you are guilty of hit and run because you knew you caused the accident the cop is sure your caused. Happened to a friends client, cost her everything in the civil suit.

The point is, shut your trap. If they want to search, they will. If they don't want to be hassled, they won't.

All this talk about tripping the cop up with questions is crap. These guys aren't asking you a question randomly, it's a script to get admissions to justify a search. It's not sincere and you

The constitution is more than just the second amendment, even if you think that the second is the most important. The fifth is pretty darn important as well. If y'all exercised your fifth amendment right to shut up as well your RTKBA you would have less problems.
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  #119  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:42 PM
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Default I was pulled over fro speeding.

The back of the SUV was full of target stands, used targets, rifle cases, pistol cases and ammo boxes....
The lone female officer could have cared less, and issued a ticket for the cracked window (cheaper than for speeding) and said have a nice day.

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  #120  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:23 PM
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So does that mean I should scrape the NRA sticker off the camper shell of my truck? Only time I was ever asked if I had a firearm in the vehicle was by a pissed off Nevada state trooper who couldn't write me a ticket - and I didn't have an NRA sticker on that truck.
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