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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:03 PM
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Default How gun owners can win in CA.

CA is a ‘liberal’ dominated state. That is a given, and it will stay that way for the foreseeable future. We have a lot of liberal 2A supporters here. We have even more ‘conservative’ 2A supporters. We both have to step back and take another look at how we are playing this game.

First let’s look at the conservative viewpoint. It’s Election Day and you are in the booth. You cast your vote for the candidate that most nearly reflects your values; and he is staunchly pro gun. You feel good about your choice; you voted on principle.

But you are in senator Yee’s district, so your man does not have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning.

You are not going to get fiscal responsibility; you are not going to get orderly immigration reform; the people of that district don’t want it! You are not going to get them to vote for someone in the same party as a couple of jerks that spouted off hateful things about women and gays either; no matter how far removed ideologically he is from them.

Now imagine you are a liberal in the next booth over. You vote for the guy who says warm and fuzzy things about gay marriage, the right to choose, and the universal right to health care. The problem is that he is downright rabidly hostile to gun rights. Without an armed citizenry all the other rights are in grave danger, even in ordinary times. These are not ordinary times. Our economy and our government are on the edge of collapse. It can no longer be avoided. We have too many voters who know nothing but the government teat. This guy just happens to be black but it cuts across all races.

http://youtu.be/LFke1xOaTEA


So when government goes toes up, or tyrannical, how safe will women and gays be when the only ones armed are the gangs? How safe will minorities of any kind be when a statist junta takes power and needs someone to blame for the countries problems?

What to do? Well, first make the 2nd amendment your first priority. If we can keep our most modern and effective arms it could actually prevent some of the worst government and gang related transgressions. In the days when the worlds great powers had fleets built around battle ships there was a now quaint phrase in common use; “A fleet in being.” And it referred to the fact that, if a country had a sufficiently credible fleet, you did not want to mess with them. ‘Fleets in being’ were the deterrents of there day, and stopped a lot of wars before they got started. A 'militia in being' can have the same effect. It is important to remember that deterrence does not require the ability to prevail; only the ability to cause the enemy more harm than it is willing to sustain.

So, how do we put gun rights first? We back out of that voting booth and wind the clock back to the primary. We then need to identify and target, say, the top three offenders from the last term. The conservatives and libertarians need to understand that they can’t make headway across the board, and they will not be able to elect candidates they actually like. But they can punish the worst of the worst. Make the 2A another “third rail of politics”. Back any dem in the primary, that has the spine to run against an anti gun ring leader, with your time money and votes. I don’t care if he is as bad on guns, or nearly so, as the guy you are targeting. You are not rewarding him, you are punishing the other guy.

And liberals in districts where a pro gun conservative may actually have a chance, need to understand that no matter what his position on abortion or gay marriage, there is not a damn thing he can do about it; those are ideas who’s time has come and there is no going back. Vote your guns! You are going to need them; and soon!

If we do that, the politicos will learn if they cross 2A voters they will get their pe-pe wacked!
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:15 PM
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Unfortunately most liberals (at least the ones I know) don't vote for someone they vote against conservatives. If they are minority it is even worse. The last few conservatives that had a chance blew it by opening their mouths and attacking certain groups.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:21 PM
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Unfortunately most liberals (at least the ones I know) don't vote for someone they vote against conservatives. If they are minority it is even worse. The last few conservatives that had a chance blew it by opening their mouths and attacking certain groups.
That is OK, this does not require much of liberals; but it would be nice to have some of them aboard.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:40 AM
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Wrong. California is not "liberal dominated", its dominated by government worker's unions. As in cops, firemen, prison guards, teachers, etc. The whole liberal thing is a non factor. Hippys aren't running the show, big out of control goverment is.
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Old 02-18-2013, 1:10 AM
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And that is why I should run for office in California. I would use their tactics right back at them.
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Old 02-18-2013, 1:21 AM
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I would chime in by saying the thinking our government, our economy, our impeding take over by the UN, etc etc all come from a point of fear. There is a lot of fear mongering amongst many gun supporters (not all). The minute we can turn the fear to bravery, the trepidation to belief in a value system above all else, even in the face of collapse, then the change will start to come.

History shows us, leaders like Ronald Reagan for example, took America through a very fearful time, but he did it with inspiration in a value system. He didn't try to scare the American people. This is why he was overwhelmingly re-elected in 84, taking 49 out of 50 states in the electoral college. People, Democrat and Republican alike, wanted to vote for Reagan and his vision of America.

People vote for ideals. As long as guns are seen as part of a platform of fear, and their supporters are seen as afraid, we won't be able to elect pro-gun people in any uniformity across the country. Yes, you'll have pro-gun states, but you'll also have states that would have kept up Jim Crow if it hadn't have been for the Federal Government and citizens alike, together, coming in WITH GUNS, to force compliance. People backed the ideal of a "fair" America, and when guns suited that ideal, a lot more people in the US backed them. The preppers, the conspiracy theroy chasers, etc do more harm then good because they show their own fear, and overall, as we have seen time and again since WWII, America chooses ideals over fear. The ideal that we won't have any more school shootings, and Chicago will become a peaceful haven for everyone to live, and Detroit will see a resurgance, and the jobs will come back to Alabama are things people will vote for, and unfortunately, right at the moment, gun support doesn't seem to fit into that ideal.

We need to change the dialog in some way. I do like your idea of using the system, using the voting booth, and making statements. Because IF the world doesn't end tomorrow, we need to make our votes count today because we'll be stuck with these stupid politicians after the fact
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Old 02-18-2013, 2:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SPUTTER View Post
Wrong. California is not "liberal dominated", its dominated by government worker's unions. As in cops, firemen, prison guards, teachers, etc. The whole liberal thing is a non factor. Hippys aren't running the show, big out of control goverment is.

As a conservative teacher, my vote is deleted by the huge contributions the CTA makes to all the liberal law makers come election time.

I felt the best bet we had on that front, was to stop the union political donations. That would cripple the liberals.
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Old 02-18-2013, 3:09 AM
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those are ideas who’s time has come and there is no going back.
That's the same way those people think about gun control.
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Old 02-18-2013, 4:24 AM
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I don’t think some are getting the gist of what I am saying. It is not about electing pro gun politicians. It is about punishing anti gun politicians. Gun control is not a big issue among most liberal voters. That is why these progressive politicians have to wait for some tragedy like Sandy Hook to give them cover for pushing it through. Rank and file liberal voters are voting the “programs”, the government dollars, just like in the video.

The ones who want gun control are the politicians themselves. They lust for power, and the more government dependant they can make the people for all their needs, including security, the more powerful they become. But it is not worth getting un-elected to them. We need to put the fear of the ‘gun lobby’ into CA politicos, and a few losses would do the trick. You are probably never going to get a majority of CA politicians who are pro gun, but you can get enough that are afraid to be overtly anti gun.
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Old 02-18-2013, 4:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SPUTTER View Post
Wrong. California is not "liberal dominated", its dominated by government worker's unions. As in cops, firemen, prison guards, teachers, etc. The whole liberal thing is a non factor. Hippys aren't running the show, big out of control goverment is.
Actually most of the hippys I have known have been more libertarian than liberal/progressive; pro individual rights and pro gun.
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Old 02-18-2013, 4:37 AM
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You are not going to get fiscal responsibility; you are not going to get orderly immigration reform; the people of that district don’t want it! You are not going to get them to vote for someone in the same party as a couple of jerks that spouted off hateful things about women and gays either; no matter how far removed ideologically he is from them.

Now imagine you are a liberal in the next booth over. You vote for the guy who says warm and fuzzy things about gay marriage, the right to choose, and the universal right to health care. The problem is that he is downright rabidly hostile to gun rights. Without an armed citizenry all the other rights are in grave danger, even in ordinary times. These are not ordinary times. Our economy and our government are on the edge of collapse. It can no longer be avoided. We have too many voters who know nothing but the government teat. This guy just happens to be black but it cuts across all races.
Sorry, but you're speaking Greek.

Seriously,the average liberal voter won't understand a word of the above. Their idealogical bias prevents it. You are an individual intelligent enough to understand what spiraling debt, social and racial strife, and gun control laws mean.

Most liberals in my experience do not. They are like the 1st Class passengers on the Titanic wondering when they'll get back to their staterooms after the iceberg strike. To the modern day liberal our economy is on the way up, racial and social strife is due to "whitey" and his gun-collecting problem, and our government is too hamstrung by colonial artifacts like the US Constitution to actually help people.

To such folk, the 2nd Amendment is unnecessary if not outright dangerous, and you will NOT convince them to back an Amendment they don't find necessary. It would be like a ballot initiative to bail out the typewriter industry.



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So when government goes toes up, or tyrannical, how safe will women and gays be when the only ones armed are the gangs? How safe will minorities of any kind be when a statist junta takes power and needs someone to blame for the countries problems?

What to do? Well, first make the 2nd amendment your first priority.........
What was that?

The GOVERNMENT going TYRANICAL?

OMG, you must be one of those right wing nutjobs hiding in a cave with your baby-killing assault rifle. Don't you know we don't NEED the 2nd Amendment anymore? The Government can protect us , and if they cant dead citizens are a lot better then a society where just anyone can buy a gun. Vote FOR the 2nd Amendment? Get like serious, we need to fix our assault rifle problem.

######################################

Ill bet you people like that have never shot a gun before. That's how we change the legal environment, by first altering the culture which spawns it. Laws are a barometer of the cultural norms of a society; trying to stop gun control by proposing pro-2A laws is like controlling an oil leak with JBweld. What needs to happen is the block needs to be replaced; that's done by changing the cultural perspective regarding firearms. If people don't think guns are evil weapons of mass destruction, they won't support knee jerk legislation.
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Old 02-18-2013, 4:48 AM
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Republicans are in the minority and have no power to punish anyone in California.

Just thinking "punish" will create more Repub losses.

Liberals do not need Republicans in California. Think about it.

Yes: there are liberal gun owners. I'm one. Republicans will get further on down the road working with liberals than in opposing them. Remember: Republicans are in the minority and are not in the slightest needed by the Dems to do anything.

Sometimes it's best to say the obvious things.

Pay attention to reality and you'll do better.

I'll post it on another thread, but here is a good pro gun article from the Christian Science Monitor called "Gun control: Future hangs on misunderstood majority of gun owners":

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...s/%28page%29/2

Pay attention or get voted off the island.

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Old 02-18-2013, 6:23 AM
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Republicans are in the minority and have no power to punish anyone in California...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...s/%28page%29/2...

CDFingers
From the article:
Democrats "feel that there's little to lose by pushing this issue right now," says Adam Winkler, author of "Gun Fight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America." "The Democratic Party has become less dependent on white swing-state voters who love guns ... and [party members] realize that they can win swing states by appealing to their core constituencies rather than appealing to Republicans."

This is why an extreme ideologue in the White House is steamrolling his agenda and why we get dismissive letters from DiFi.
We are at this point because of a long term demographic and cultural shift and as such it is difficult to make a short term course correction.
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Old 02-18-2013, 7:05 AM
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Back any dem in the primary, that has the spine to run against an anti gun ring leader, with your time money and votes.
You are assuming the anti-gun incumbent Democrat has a primary challenger for you to support. Most or all don't. Even then, the incumbent would beat the challenger, unless as Louisiana Gov. Edwin Edwards once said, he is "caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy". In San Francisco even that might not keep the incumbent from winning. A Democratic incumbent would have had to really angered one of the Democratic constituencies to lose, and they are careful not to do that. That's why they are always pandering to their base.

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History shows us, leaders like Ronald Reagan for example, took America through a very fearful time, but he did it with inspiration in a value system. He didn't try to scare the American people. This is why he was overwhelmingly re-elected in 84, taking 49 out of 50 states in the electoral college. People, Democrat and Republican alike, wanted to vote for Reagan and his vision of America.
In case you haven't noticed, California has changed a lot in the 28 years since Reagan won that election. California has not given its electoral votes to a Republican since 1988. If Reagan ran in 2012 he would not have won 49 states, and he would not have won California. Reagan, for all his gifts, could not win an election for governor of California today. For a "Republican" to win for governor of California today, being a rich former movie actor like Reagan wouldn't be enough. He would have to be a rich moderate-to-liberal former movie actor like Schwarzenegger. Any other Republican wouldn't stand a chance.
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Old 02-18-2013, 7:19 AM
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What most of you don't understand is that most Californians who can vote, don't. This has gone on for decades and is why we find ourselves with corrupt leadership.

So who votes in this state? Government workers vote and they are by far the most powerful voter block in the state. They vote in politicians who repay them with wage increases and nice pensions. If you want to change things in California, you must contend with this group.

As far as gun control goes, police unions would love to see all guns banned. I would imagine if all guns where banned in California, the salary for a cop would skyrocket. The police unions would have an iron grip on the defenseless taxpayer.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:11 AM
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Those of us who are not single issue voters simply won't do that. If you're conservative but you're pro-choice, are you going to vote against the anti-choice conservative candidate? Only if that's the only issue you care about.

Of course, this is calguns - single issue voter central.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:20 AM
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Unfortunately, the unions pick who they like in a primary and put up big bucks in campaign funding. In the last election there were some races that had no Republican ran against the democrat. They could not afford to match or even come close to the money contributed by the unions. And the unions couldn't care less about 2nd am issues.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rjpsb1 View Post
Those of us who are not single issue voters simply won't do that. If you're conservative but you're pro-choice, are you going to vote against the anti-choice conservative candidate? Only if that's the only issue you care about.

Of course, this is calguns - single issue voter central.
what he said +1
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Old 02-18-2013, 2:14 PM
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Yes: there are liberal gun owners. I'm one.
I'm another. There are plenty of us. (Unfortunately we are ignored by the shameless news media.)
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Old 02-18-2013, 4:11 PM
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Sorry, but you're speaking Greek.
I sure as hell am! Because that is where we are headed; the way of Grease!
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Originally Posted by rootuser View Post
I would chime in by saying the thinking our government, our economy, our impeding take over by the UN, etc etc all come from a point of fear.
There is a lot of fear mongering amongst many gun supporters (not all). People vote for ideals. As long as guns are seen as part of a platform of fear, and their supporters are seen as afraid, we won't be able to elect pro-gun people in any uniformity across the country.
First; recognizing a threat exists and recommending counter measures is not “fear”, it is diligence. Second; this was never supposed to elect pro-gun people. It is designed to create fear in anti gun politicians.
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Republicans are in the minority and have no power to punish anyone in California.
Yes: there are liberal gun owners. I'm one. Republicans will get further on down the road working with liberals than in opposing them. Remember: Republicans are in the minority and are not in the slightest needed by the Dems to do anything.
Pay attention or get voted off the island.
CDFingers
You are the one that needs to pay attention. I am talking about working with and voting for democrats. Me thinks you are a bit high on your own power. A great pride goith before a fall.

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Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
You are assuming the anti-gun incumbent Democrat has a primary challenger for you to support. Most or all don't.
Then find one!

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Originally Posted by rjpsb1 View Post
Those of us who are not single issue voters simply won't do that.
Fine, your choice, just hope there are enough that are to keep you out of the FEMA relocation camps.

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Originally Posted by rjpsb1 View Post
Of course, this is calguns - single issue voter central.
BINGO!

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Originally Posted by Dreaded Claymore View Post
I'm another[liberal gun owner]. There are plenty of us. (Unfortunately we are ignored by the shameless news media.)
You are correct. However, in past posts I have noted some strong Libertarian tendencies!
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Last edited by Meplat; 02-18-2013 at 4:16 PM..
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Old 02-18-2013, 8:40 PM
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Default Following on.

I agree that we need to target and punish the "worse" offenders.

Sen Yee wants to run for Secretary of State and I taking him out in the "primary would send a message".

It doesn't matter if he opponent is equal or worse, what matters is we stomp on Sen Yee and if he opponent wins, they understand that if they **** with us, we will stomp on them.

We are an easy group to please because what do we want from government other than to be left alone?

The Libtards practice "victim politics". They target groups, then play in that they are a "victim" and that they are there to help.

Being a "victim" is easy, because it means that you are not responsible for bad things that happen to you, it is someone else's fault.

If we would actually attack the culture of "victimhood", we could actually cut down the Democratic base.

The "Victim mindset" breeds dependence on government and it is something we must address because it cuts across the culture.

When we hear, crime is going up, many people respond that we need more police.

How many times do you hear people say we need people to learn to defend themselves and we need to increase CCW permits.

Nicki
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Old 02-18-2013, 8:55 PM
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Remember folks, the fall ballot is now a "top two" run-off. Meplat is right to point out that strongly D-leaning districts, the *real* election is the primary. You will be lucky to see an R on the ballot in the fall in any case. It will be an election between two D's. So, target and punish anti-2A, support pro-2A dems, if you can find any.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:06 PM
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I agree that we need to target and punish the "worse" offenders.

Sen Yee wants to run for Secretary of State and I taking him out in the "primary would send a message".

It doesn't matter if he opponent is equal or worse, what matters is we stomp on Sen Yee and if he opponent wins, they understand that if they **** with us, we will stomp on them.
Finally! Somebody gets it! Thank you Nicki. If we all work to make sure as few as tow or three real bad ones go down, and make sure it is known why they went down, it will be like hanging a dead cyote on the fence of the sheep pasture.

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We are an easy group to please because what do we want from government other than to be left alone?

The Libtards practice "victim politics". They target groups, then play in that they are a "victim" and that they are there to help.

Being a "victim" is easy, because it means that you are not responsible for bad things that happen to you, it is someone else's fault.

If we would actually attack the culture of "victimhood", we could actually cut down the Democratic base.

The "Victim mindset" breeds dependence on government and it is something we must address because it cuts across the culture.

When we hear, crime is going up, many people respond that we need more police.

How many times do you hear people say we need people to learn to defend themselves and we need to increase CCW permits.

Nicki
These are desirable goals, but they are long term.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:08 PM
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You are assuming the anti-gun incumbent Democrat has a primary challenger for you to support. Most or all don't.

Then find one!

Where, under a rock? In Lost and Found? You don't just "find" someone and then tell them to run against the incumbent in the primary, and then they go do it. Someone has to be self-motivated to challenge the incumbent in the primary. Even if there is a primary challenger, in an urban California Democratic primary the candidates will likely try to out-do each other in terms of how many gun control measures they support. Being pro-gun rights in a California Democratic primary is not the path to victory.

The Democrats have controlled the California Legislature for more than 40 years. That isn't an accident.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:17 PM
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Wrong. California is not "liberal dominated", its dominated by government worker's unions. As in cops, firemen, prison guards, teachers, etc. The whole liberal thing is a non factor. Hippys aren't running the show, big out of control goverment is.

True. Also, most liberals are not that concerned about guns when it comes to voting. Sure most of them, not all, don't like guns and would like to see them banned but there are statistically very few single issue anti gun voters. Of those who don't like guns, very few will vote for someone just based on their stance on guns.


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Unfortunately, the unions pick who they like in a primary and put up big bucks in campaign funding. In the last election there were some races that had no Republican ran against the democrat. They could not afford to match or even come close to the money contributed by the unions. And the unions couldn't care less about 2nd am issues.
This is true. What is ironic is that according to the NRA and Zogby Polling, 20% of union members are members of the NRA. What other group other than union members has 20% of the people members of the NRA? There are about 90 million gun owners but only 4.5 million or so NRA members. That is only 5%! Total NRA membership is about 1.4% for all citizens.

I have a whole thread about this. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=685116

Sadly most gun owners would rather be right than win.
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I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:00 AM
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Where, under a rock? In Lost and Found?
If you have too, that or make one.

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Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
You don't just "find" someone and then tell them to run against the incumbent in the primary, and then they go do it. Someone has to be self-motivated to challenge the incumbent in the primary.
You don't think there are dems with enough ego and disier to accept the support of all the serious pro gun Dems, Reps, and Libertarians in the state, and have a go at it? If they win they will know that they will be the target next time.


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Even if there is a primary challenger, in an urban California Democratic primary the candidates will likely try to out-do each other in terms of how many gun control measures they support. Being pro-gun rights in a California Democratic primary is not the path to victory.
I don't care what they say in a campaigne, I care what they do after elected. Very few rank and file dems are motivated by gun control; their candidates don't need it to win in California.

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The Democrats have controll the California Leedgislature for more than 40 years. That isn't an accident.
When did I say that we could, or even wanted, to take the CA legislator?
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:11 AM
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Wrong. California is not "liberal dominated", its dominated by government worker's unions. As in cops, firemen, prison guards, teachers, etc. The whole liberal thing is a non factor. Hippys aren't running the show, big out of control goverment is.
^ This.

One to the top 5 reasons why I am leaving. I am not going to be on the hook for all those state worker pensions.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:13 AM
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True. Also, most liberals are not that concerned about guns when it comes to voting.
Very true! I personally know 2 of them right here in Ventura County. There is no concern on their part. No concern whatsoever.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:46 AM
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CA is a ‘liberal’ dominated state. That is a given, and it will stay that way for the foreseeable future. We have a lot of liberal 2A supporters here. We have even more ‘conservative’ 2A supporters. We both have to step back and take another look at how we are playing this game.

First let’s look at the conservative viewpoint. It’s Election Day and you are in the booth. You cast your vote for the candidate that most nearly reflects your values; and he is staunchly pro gun. You feel good about your choice; you voted on principle.

But you are in senator Yee’s district, so your man does not have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning.

You are not going to get fiscal responsibility; you are not going to get orderly immigration reform; the people of that district don’t want it! You are not going to get them to vote for someone in the same party as a couple of jerks that spouted off hateful things about women and gays either; no matter how far removed ideologically he is from them.

Now imagine you are a liberal in the next booth over. You vote for the guy who says warm and fuzzy things about gay marriage, the right to choose, and the universal right to health care. The problem is that he is downright rabidly hostile to gun rights. Without an armed citizenry all the other rights are in grave danger, even in ordinary times. These are not ordinary times. Our economy and our government are on the edge of collapse. It can no longer be avoided. We have too many voters who know nothing but the government teat. This guy just happens to be black but it cuts across all races.

http://youtu.be/LFke1xOaTEA


So when government goes toes up, or tyrannical, how safe will women and gays be when the only ones armed are the gangs? How safe will minorities of any kind be when a statist junta takes power and needs someone to blame for the countries problems?

What to do? Well, first make the 2nd amendment your first priority. If we can keep our most modern and effective arms it could actually prevent some of the worst government and gang related transgressions. In the days when the worlds great powers had fleets built around battle ships there was a now quaint phrase in common use; “A fleet in being.” And it referred to the fact that, if a country had a sufficiently credible fleet, you did not want to mess with them. ‘Fleets in being’ were the deterrents of there day, and stopped a lot of wars before they got started. A 'militia in being' can have the same effect. It is important to remember that deterrence does not require the ability to prevail; only the ability to cause the enemy more harm than it is willing to sustain.

So, how do we put gun rights first? We back out of that voting booth and wind the clock back to the primary. We then need to identify and target, say, the top three offenders from the last term. The conservatives and libertarians need to understand that they can’t make headway across the board, and they will not be able to elect candidates they actually like. But they can punish the worst of the worst. Make the 2A another “third rail of politics”. Back any dem in the primary, that has the spine to run against an anti gun ring leader, with your time money and votes. I don’t care if he is as bad on guns, or nearly so, as the guy you are targeting. You are not rewarding him, you are punishing the other guy.

And liberals in districts where a pro gun conservative may actually have a chance, need to understand that no matter what his position on abortion or gay marriage, there is not a damn thing he can do about it; those are ideas who’s time has come and there is no going back. Vote your guns! You are going to need them; and soon!

If we do that, the politicos will learn if they cross 2A voters they will get their pe-pe wacked!
I made this exact point on the first day of our organizational meeting for our Ventura rally, the next day we had two people quit. If you ask me we are stronger for it. For me the 2nd Amendment is the line in the sand that we dare cross. If people cannot get on board with that and accept the political realities of our state than we have already lost.
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Old 02-19-2013, 1:35 AM
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I have a better idea ! The Republican Party is screwed right now , and pretty much dead , ESP in cali. The only answer is to get traditional conservatives to abandon the Carl roves , the reince prebus's , mitt wrongny's etc. they all need to realize they can't be successful without the tea party , libertarian , constitution party supporting them ! Half the people I know don't vote because they know 99% of politicians are corrupt liars , and they believe it does no good . The other half fall for the same b.s. every election . That b.s. is republicans and democrats dividing people by blaming eachother ! Both the left and right hands of our political system are connected to the same beast ! Conservatives need to turn into aggressive's. they need to turn off Fox News even though it seems the closest news to thier values it's still a corporate agenda , stop listening to bill oriely and start listening to judge Andrew Napolitano , Ron and rand Paul etc.. Vote policy's not politics ! And eventually the libtards will sway our way when common sense ,fiscal responsibility, and liberty take precedence . It's just common sense really , people on both the left and right are fed up with government period ! So bring them all together by offering them something new and true .
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Old 02-19-2013, 6:36 AM
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Gun owners can win in California by coming together as gun owners. If one class of gun owners wants continuously to diss another class of gun owners, that works at cross purposes to the goal of increasing California gun owners' rights.

By dissing liberal gun owners, a small collection of fools wrecks it for everyone. Knock it off.

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Old 02-19-2013, 6:57 AM
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Gun owners can win in California by coming together as gun owners. If one class of gun owners wants continuously to diss another class of gun owners, that works at cross purposes to the goal of increasing California gun owners' rights.

By dissing liberal gun owners, a small collection of fools wrecks it for everyone. Knock it off.

CDFingers
Wrong.

Gun owners have NEVER been a united political block, especially in liberal minded states like California.

Oh sure on CALGUNS it looks like most of us are on the same page: but outside of web forums, most gun owners flatly don't give a damn about the Constiution. To most weapon owners in America guns are just a hobby; the idea of voting for 'gun rights' sounds as absurd to them as voting for 'smokers rights'.

If gun owners were a united politic, NY Governor Cuomo would be facing an impeachment/recall hearing. Instead many NY gun owners are turning the other cheek since the SAFE act doesn't affect their bolt guns and 12 gauge long arms.

We must focus our efforts on the courts , because changing the social attitude in firearms is impossible so long as the media is our avowed enemy.
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  #33  
Old 02-20-2013, 6:27 AM
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Diss away from the minority, Silver. You'll get no helping hand from the majority.

That's the way politics works. Don't like it? Welcome to America.

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  #34  
Old 02-20-2013, 6:39 AM
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Feinswine is THE devil to gun owners. I've said this before, but here it comes again: she's been involved in politics since about 1970, been a us senator for California since 1992 (20 ****ing years), and last year she set the record for most votes for us senator in history with 7.75 million votes. What does that say about California voters and how high a priority gun rights are to them as a whole? Did I make sure to point out that she started her us senate career by authoring the '94 awb, and has continued to be re elected four times since?

As it is, only about %5 of gun owners feel strongly enough about the 2a to send a few bucks to the NRA to protect those rights.

Not saying we shouldn't fight. But let's be honest about what the politics of this state and by extension, it's constituents are. Rural/pro 2a counties are the little corners of sunshine in this state under her shadow.
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Old 02-20-2013, 7:36 AM
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Wrong. California is not "liberal dominated", its dominated by government worker's unions. As in cops, firemen, prison guards, teachers, etc. The whole liberal thing is a non factor. Hippys aren't running the show, big out of control goverment is.
Yep. They let the hippys think they run it so they don't pay attention... In the bay area they think all is well and good since 'their guys' are in power... while the state goes to cr*p due to what you mentioned about the public workers.

Last edited by sl0re10; 02-20-2013 at 7:43 AM..
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Old 02-20-2013, 8:25 AM
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Money is the master of California politics. It's a circle jerk.
Govt takes from citizens > Govt creates jobs and wealth for union members > union memebers forced to give to union heads > union heads give to politicians > Politicians create more union protected jobs > citizens keep paying taxes on pain of going to jail.
The whole thing is systemic corruption of our government driven by greed of power and money. It won't end until the $ dries up.
Voting strategies are a cute idea and would have a chance in a game that wasn't rigged, but... not here.
Carry on people.
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Old 02-20-2013, 8:33 AM
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California is Union Blue with some help from liberals in places like San Francisco, Santa Cruz, and parts of LA. Try visiting a "blue" city like Sacramento and you'll find people are pretty conservative socially in their views compared to San Francisco. Many probably disagree with the Democrats view on gun control. However the same republicans who are pro-gun are also anti-union and want to take away union worker retirement, benefits, and pay... Therefore although they may WANT to vote GOP they're going to vote for the Democrat and put their family first.
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Old 02-21-2013, 4:44 PM
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Money is the master of California all politics. It's a circle jerk.
Govt takes from citizens > Govt creates jobs and wealth for union members > union memebers forced to give to union heads > union heads give to politicians > Politicians create more union protected jobs > citizens keep paying taxes on pain of going to jail.
The whole thing is systemic corruption of our government driven by greed of power and money. It won't end until the $ dries up.
Voting strategies are a cute idea and would have a chance in a game that wasn't rigged, but... not here.
Carry on people.
But it will end when the money dries up! And it will dry up; and soon! What comes after, and especially the transition to what comes after, will be quite ugly. You may very well need your weapons to keep you and your family safe. What I propose is not a voting strategy aimed at doing anything but saving our most effective weapons; that is the best that can be hoped for. It is too late to save the state. It is too late to save the country. It is too late to save the economy from collapse. So vote for all the progressives you want, it will only make the collapse happen sooner, maybe before we are completely disarmed.

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Old 02-21-2013, 6:20 PM
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California is Union Blue with some help from liberals in places like San Francisco, Santa Cruz, and parts of LA. Try visiting a "blue" city like Sacramento and you'll find people are pretty conservative socially in their views compared to San Francisco. Many probably disagree with the Democrats view on gun control. However the same republicans who are pro-gun are also anti-union and want to take away union worker retirement, benefits, and pay... Therefore although they may WANT to vote GOP they're going to vote for the Democrat and put their family first.
I cannot understand why a thread that started with a proposal to fight democrats with democrats is being perceived as some kind of strategy to get republicans elected.:eligabilaty: The object here is not to elect anyone in particular; it is to protect the Second Amendment!

I have never voted for a democrat for president in my life. I have voted for some for congress and the state legislator who reflected the more conservative / libertarian values of the Central Valley, but not lately. But I would vote for any democrat that would oppose Yee for Secretary of State, if I can do it, gun owning dems can do it. After all they are getting their social programs, they are getting their 'supposed' social liberties, they are getting union support; and they also get to punish a grabber! It's flawless!

Even being a lifelong republican I have to admit that the GOP can bee just as dissinguinuose as the Jackasses. Every time they start talking about public employee unions they bring up the prison guards and the highway patrol, who's wages and pensions are outrageous. I worked in the Agriculture department for 30 years. My job was every bit as dangerous. I was at the top of my pay grade and was no longer gaining anything as far as my pension elligablity and got a 15% pay cut due to budget problems. My pension is about half of my base pay; if it were not for another small vested pension from my days as a construction worker and social security I would probably be living under a bridge. The real irony is that I really loved my job and if they had not insisted on continually cutting my pay they would still be getting 30 years of very specialized experience for half price.
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Old 02-21-2013, 6:58 PM
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Get government out of marriage. Leave it to the churches. Get rid of "marriage bonuses" in the form of spouses' rights. There is no reason that your partner of 20 years should be prohibited from being with you when you're dying, but that scumbag of a son you haven't seen in 50 is allowed to.

There's some churches that'll accept gays and marry them. Good for them. That solves that issue. No need for special recognition either. As it is, the Catholic church won't recognize a second marriage, or even a divorce. Your new wife doesn't exist, you're still married to that bag you divorced 30 years ago.

50 state concealed carry. Uniform requirements. "Well regulated militia". Well, if you can buy a gun, and you can hit a damned target, take a simple safety course, you can get the permit.

I'd go so far as having to provide photo ID and SSN upon going to an ER or enrolling your kids in school, but people would hate that. Kick the illegals out and give them the option to either pony up for a green card immediately, get off welfare, and stay with the kid, or put the kid up for adoption and gtfo. Health care and welfare for anchor babies is a drain on our state budget.

Oh, and Jefferson. Jefferson Uber Alles.
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