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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#121
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Pick your battles...and your battlegrounds. I don't think now is the best time to have a gun at school in violation of the law. And of course, to be telling the students about it.
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#122
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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. |
#123
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A lot of ignorance in this thread regarding the teachers' union. I don't like it, personally. I tried to leave it but missed my chance for this year.
It doesn't fight for child molesters. It doesn't play favorites. It is not run like other unions. If I have a legal issue regarding work, as a member of the union, I must be given a union lawyer. That's the agreement. There is no legal mechanism whereby the union can decide the facts and say, "No. This guy is a child molester. Representation denied!" That's for a court to decide. Unions don't fight for anything regarding individual teachers. They just enforce collective bargaining rights. Molesting children does not fall under that umbrella. We are never called upon to picket or demonstrate in any way for individual teachers. Ever. I've never seen that it or heard about that happening. Ever. As regards this teacher, he has a legal dispute regarding his job. He will get a union lawyer. No way around that. As with a child molester, it probably won't cover his police woes, but it will cover his dispute over his troubles with the school. As to how I feel about this issue as a teacher, I'm a bit torn. Last week, I found a box of ammo on the floor in the back of my truck. What if I'd taken that truck to school? Could I be in a similar situation? What if I'd forgotten my CCW in my truck? On the other hand... Is a .380 really the choice of a man planning to defend the school? He had it in his vehicle, not on his person, right? So this wasn't a choice for concealment. If I were planning to protect my campus, I'd go with at the very least a 9mm. His choice in caliber alone makes me question things a bit. Ever see a REALLY accurate .380? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#124
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It was supposedly in his pocket when he was in school. And all caliber disputes aside, you cannot but agree that the gun you have in hand when you need one is better than a higher caliber gun you do not have, or not having a gun at all.
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It was not a threat. It was an exaggerated response to an uncompromising stance. I was taught never to make a threat unless you are prepared to carry it out and I am not a fan of carrying anything. Even watching other people carrying things makes me uncomfortable. Mainly because of the possibility they may ask me to help. |
#125
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Remember the job of someone pulling a gun in self defense is just that.Its not playing John McClaine in the school building hunting down some bad guy . That's a great way to get killed by the scumbag or the cops. If there's an active shooter in the school, a .380 is the perfect choice to use in defending against a bad guy entering a barricaded door. Remember that most school policies regarding spree shooters is to lock down in place, so the only area you'd be defending as a teacher is the immediate classroom. Most classrooms lose only to an elevator on the "Places You'd Never Want a Gunfight" list . The only good thing about 1 entry and exit is that the bad guy has to use it too, which makes things easier for the defender. As such the distances involved will be at maximum 21 feet, and probably far less. Most classrooms I've attended have the teachers' podium probably 6 feet from the door at the most. At that spacing a .22LR delivered right will do the job, to say nothing of larger calibers.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#126
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"What is a moderate interpretation of the text? Halfway between what it really means and what you'd like it to mean?" "The cases will publish forever the discouraging truth that the Supreme Court of the United States favors some laws over others, and is prepared to do whatever it takes to uphold and assist its favorites." -Antonin Scalia, Supreme Court Justice |
#128
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Fear and emotion can be a double-edged sword. Do you pick a time when there is less of a perceived threat to schools and classrooms? Don't you think he would come off as more of a paranoid kook and nut in a closer to normal climate? And everyone keeps on commenting that he should have had a CCW/LTC, but how realistic was it for him to acquire one? Is it just as difficult to get in his county as it is in mine (Alameda County)? If so what are his options other than to remain unarmed as so many of you seem to support? I get everyones' opinions on why he shouldn't have been carrying (broke the law and school policy), but the judgmental tone reeks of an anti civil rights perspective on guns.
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"When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff "Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X |
#129
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I wonder how this would have played out in the following circumstance:
Shooter goes to school and opens fire. Enters this guy's classroom and the teacher draws and wastes the guy. Would he still be considered a dangerous criminal? |
#130
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It can't be your place of business unless you're the owner. For the teacher, it's just his place of employment.
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#131
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yes and they've been most vocal in favor of bans. it'll be interesting to see if they protect one of their own or throw him under the bus in favor of their agenda.
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#132
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Just a criminal, unless he didn't check his backstop, and shot a student, then it is back to dangerous.
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*REMOVE THIS PART BEFORE POSTING* |
#133
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I think they have to defend him but only 'wouldn't mind' throwing him under the bus.
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#134
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#135
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My point was more about the various .380 platforms out there. Bersa, Walther, CZ, Colt, etc. the .380s available all seem to have one particular commonality: a short sight radius. A non-shoot rich environment like a school isn't some place I want to be missing shots. If I were firing at an intruder in my classroom's wing, I stand a good chance of a errant round finding its way into another classroom. Now... We already have stipulated that a badguy is firing off enough rounds... But even one accidental shooting of a kid during that is going to be a bit ugly for us. Still, I do think teachers should be allowed to carry if they are trained. This guy may or may not have been. Regardless, I have a CCW and will not carry on campus. And I initially got my CCW because I'd received some serious death threats over the phone in my classroom Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#136
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To paraphrase E.M. Forster, “If I had to choose between betraying my country's unjust laws and betraying myself, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country's unjust laws.” That being said, I would not trumpet the choice to a room full of talkative children who are daily surrounded by my vindictive enemies. ![]()
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"The Religion of Peace": Islam: What the West Needs to Know. ". . . all [historical] experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms [of governmental abuses and usurpations] to which they are accustomed." Decl. of Indep., July 4, 1776 NRA Benefactor/Life Member; Lifer: CRPA, GOA, ![]() |
#137
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He would be charged and tried for homicide. No doubt he would be labeled as a criminal for this. Then he would be sued by some parents, the bad guys family, and the school district for violating the shooters civil rights.
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#138
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2) You have just as many tumbleweeds, and more sand. 3) He shouldn't have to worry about someone knowing about it. 4) You are losing your rights because you're afraid of the libs in your state, and worry WAAY too much about how they're going to feel about you. 5) Tex? Badge of honor. 6) Punch cows? Whatever. |
#139
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Actually this is good. A teacher is one of the GFZ proponents. Could it be they no longer have faith in their signage?
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#141
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You guys are proposing a standard that is impossible to achieve. You'd damned well better be able to live up to that standard if you're going to accuse and demean others who fail it.
The standard I refer to is that of perfection. In particular, you guys are insisting that the teacher not merely aim for perfect concealment, but actually achieve it. Has it occurred to you that the teacher may have told his students about his weapon because a student saw it? The mantra is "concealed means concealed", but nobody's perfect, and to insist that this teacher was "an idiot" or, worse, deserves what he's now getting in light of the very real possibility that his weapon somehow became exposed in sight of one or more of his students, and that he explained to his class that he has the firearm because it got exposed in that way, is to hold him to a standard of perfection that I very much doubt any of you can achieve. Let he who is without sins cast the first stone. Many stones have been cast here, by people who are almost certainly not sinless. Look in the mirror. The person you see there could easily be the next person thrown in jail for breaking the unforgiving and unconscionable laws of this state. Those laws are the problem. This teacher is not.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#142
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In California, "homicide" is an act, not a crime. There is no crime called "homicide".
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#143
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2 things, the teacher telling all of his students he has a gun is a double edged sword meaning by that damned if you do damned if you don't, if he didn't tell anyone he had it and it became known we could be seeing in the headlines "teachers plot of mass destruction foiled" and like he did tell, kids talk and word gets around. The other thing in the article one of the parents said "we don't need a teacher playing security gaurd" next thing that parent will say is we don't need good samaritans playing doctor to someone not breathing, tell that nonsensical arguement to the person who is still alive because someone with good intentions stepped in and either provided live saving first aid or stepped in and actually protected them from harm with a firearm, knife or just mere presence. We don't need gun control or gun permits we need more birth control and permits to reproduce only people with passing logic and IQ standards will be permitted...
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#144
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Are you kidding? There are at least 5 teachers on this site who are probably, to a man, against GFZs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#145
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#146
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51% alcohol law.....not in Cali 30-06 signs............not in Cali sporting event........not in Cali hospitals................not in Cali amusement parks...not in Cali churches................not in Cali .gov meetings........not in Cali Ignored? Maybe, but you would have had to be arrested for any of them to know for sure..........got pics?
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*REMOVE THIS PART BEFORE POSTING* |
#147
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Commifornia rather arrest teachers then protect our kids.. Only in USSA.
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#148
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"When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff "Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X |
#149
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![]() ![]() ![]() Are we so H3LL bent on the holy grail of shall issue LTC/CCW, sorry I don't believe it is constitutional to charge a poll tax to vote and last I checked neither does the SCOTUS. So why should I have to pay a poll tax in the guise of an "Administrative Fee" or even ask the nanny state for a mother may I slip to exercise I right that per-exists the State!? It does not matter if he carries concealed, open or wears it as a hat, he has a right to keep and bear arms and has the right to life liberty and property as well as the right to defend them. We don't need anyone's permission to do these things if we are required to get permission IT IS NOT A RIGHT. As for Jury nullification, it is part of the process, does it suck sometimes, yeah, if you think the people that received it should not have, however it is a vital part of the system because the people can use it to nullify laws that are unconstitutional even though some learned judge with a magic decoder ring says the law is constitutional. I read English rather well and believe I posses reasonable common sense. Governments and juries are supposed to seek justice and defend the rights of people not the law over the rights. Someone please please explain to me how much of my right to self defense and the manner in which I exercise that right does the State have authority over and why? |
#150
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#151
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How many of you would support him if there was a shooting at the school and this teacher successfully defended himself and his students with the gun he was carrying illegally? Self defense trumps any and every law. The Constitution (which I swore an oath to uphold and defend when I joined the military) trumps all other laws contrary to it. If I was on his jury I would not vote to convict. In fact, I would not convict anybody for ever violating any gun control laws. They're all illegal laws.
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#152
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CTA will provide a "defense" for him. Do not expect it to be a strong and experienced attorney. CTA, and I am a 39 year member and at one time very involved member, tends to be just a little left of Sen. Feinstein.
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#153
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IANAL, but I believe teachers have no legal authority or requirement to defend students from attackers. So why should he be authorized to carry on campus? If there was an assault on the school, he could (and probably should) run like a mofo in the opposite direction.
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#154
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So you concede your point. tyvm.
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*REMOVE THIS PART BEFORE POSTING* |
#155
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He could easily be the next nutcase gone wild. I'm all for teachers and CCW But there is a right and a wrong way to go about it |
#156
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It sickens me to know, that if the state made it law, that all individuals must immediately exit their vehicle during any traffic stop, get on their hands & knees & bark like a dog untill ordered to lay down & shut up, that a large majority of people would comply, including people here.... God help us...
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#157
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It should be noted that San Diego Unified School District is the only public school district openly endorsing Feinstein's Gun Ban. I have wondered about the legality of this, as they are publicly funded.
A LTC holder can carry on campus with the permission of the school administration. It is unlikely that many districts in this state would grant such permission, however. Where I work, there are some employees with LTC that have stated they would carry if the district would allow it. Others have said they would obtain a LTC if they could carry at work. I don't know if anyone has ever actually asked the administration about it. School employees may also possess knives if they are necessary for the performance of their jobs. Custodians, maintenance staff, kitchen crews, etc. I carry a knife because I deal with a lot of boxes and packaging. I don't know how that would work out in the case of an English teacher, but there are exceptions to the law. A teacher in another district near here was arrested a few years ago after the principal saw a sheathed hunting knife in the teacher's truck in the parking lot. Apparently, there was some history of animosity of the principal toward the teacher and the charges were dropped. I have had firearms in locked containers in my locked vehicle at work, but no ammo, which satisfies both state and federal GFSZ requirements. Unfortunately these days, I am unlikely going to find any ammo at Wal-Mart on my way to the range if I decide to go shooting after work.
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Just taking up space in the second-worst small town in California. |
#158
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if he did it right,nobody would know he was carring!
damn, thought teachers were smarter then that.........no not really....be he was bragging and showing it off in teachers lounge and 1 of the antis tattled on him.... ![]() |
#159
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#160
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Member - NRA, GOA, CAPRC CalGun Contributor "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." -Albert Einstein |
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