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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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Old 02-25-2013, 6:32 PM
Frosty Frosty is offline
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Default Manufacturing Lowers: A Hypothetical Question

Let's say I have this machine. You can walk in, put a hunk of aluminum in, press a button, and out comes a homemade unserialized lower. This, as far as I know, is legal, much like *completing* an 80% lower. So here's my question: what if I wanted to help out the gun community and provide you CalGunners access to this machine? Obviously I can't manufacture a bunch of unserialized lowers and sell them, but what if I sold the rights to come in, place the hunk of aluminum, and press the button yourself. You've effectively made the lower and you can take it on your merry way. Would such a situation be technically legal in the eyes of the law? I realize "legal" and "won't get you arrested" aren't always synonymous, but grey are risk aside, I'd like to know what the letter of the law has to say about this.

Last edited by Frosty; 02-25-2013 at 6:43 PM..
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:39 PM
Drew Eckhardt Drew Eckhardt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
Let's say I have this machine. You can walk in, put a hunk of aluminum in, press a button, and out comes a homemade unserialized lower. This, as far as I know, is legal, much like making an 80% lower. So here's my question: what if I wanted to help out the gun community and provide you CalGunners access to this machine? Obviously I can't manufacture a bunch of unserialized lowers and sell them, but what if I sold the rights to come in, place the hunk of aluminum, and press the button yourself. You've effectively made the lower and you can take it on your merry way. Would such a situation be technically legal in the eyes of the law? I realize "legal" and "won't get you arrested" aren't always synonymous, but grey are risk aside, I'd like to know what the letter of the law has to say about this.
"80%", the more exciting "95%", and less common "0%" and "10%" labels are all marketing terms with no legal meaning.

As far as ATF is concerned either it's a firearm or not with no distinction made between rectangular 6061 stock or mostly machined billet/forging that lacks only the fire control group cut-out and three drill holes.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 02-25-2013 at 6:41 PM..
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:41 PM
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MrPlink MrPlink is offline
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Didn't you ask this a while ago?
And how is this any different than the 80percent build parties out there already?
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:42 PM
Frosty Frosty is offline
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
"80%", the more exciting "95%", and less common "0%" and "10%" labels are all marketing terms with no legal meaning.

As far as ATF is concerned either it's a firearm or not with no distinction made between a slab of 6061 billet or mostly machined billet/forging that lacks only the fire control group cut-out and three drill holes.
I wasn't clear with that, I meant to say "much like completing an 80% lower."

That said, would it be legal to sell the rights to use my awesome machine?
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:42 PM
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Meety Peety Meety Peety is offline
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As far as the law goes, it either is a firearm or is not a firearm.
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:44 PM
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That said, would it be legal to sell the rights to use my awesome machine?
Yes, just like a machine shop sells you the opportunity to finish your 80% lower.

Allow me to clarify, your "magical machine" and the machine shop's cnc machine do the exact same thing in this hypothetical scenario. Basically all you are asking is "is it ok for me to host a 80% build party with my tools and charge a fee?"
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Last edited by Meety Peety; 02-25-2013 at 6:49 PM..
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Meety Peety View Post
Yes, just like a machine shop sells you the opportunity to finish your 80% lower.
Ok, so I have this machine...just kidding. But there was a purpose for this question. Hopefully I can get some lowers made soon and help people out.
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Old 02-25-2013, 7:10 PM
tanakasan tanakasan is offline
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IANAL, but...if you machine them in bulk to the 80% stage, then rent time/machinery/knowledge to complete them, that would be legal, correct?

Robert
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