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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-11-2013, 1:37 PM
otteray otteray is offline
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Default Purposed Ban on New Guns & Ammo Stores in Unincorporated Santa Cruz County

County Supervisor John Leopold is bringing this up at the Tuesday Board Meeting.


Quote:
Although our current zoning regulations do not explicitly prohibit firearm sales, they do
not set any parameters for firearm retail establishments or the sale of guns and
ammunition. Our Board has adopted policies for a wide range of businesses to address
their impact on our community and the environment. With the possible addition of a
business that sells firearms and ammunition, I think it is appropriate to request a
temporary moratorium so that we can work with public safety officials and our Planning
Department staff to develop appropriate regulations.

http://sccounty01.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/bds/Govstream/BDSvData/non_legacy/agendas/2013/20130115/PDF/043.pdf


With the new Supervisor on the Board (Bruce McPherson) I think we might get hosed, just like we lost with the recent Corralitos/Eureka Canyon target shooting ban, despite all the vocal outcries against it.
Maybe they are pissed that the LAR&G lead test turned out negative, so now they are moving to "plan B," in their desire for an eventual total ban.

Anyone planning to show up at the meeting?
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2013, 1:42 PM
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I would have thought McPherson would be against this.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2013, 3:39 PM
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As usual, I just wanted post an update to let everyone know that the NRA is already working with the affected people to coordinate a strong response to this proposed action. The law firm of Michel & Associates, PC has been brought in to represent the interests law-abiding firearms owners in the Santa Cruz County area.

As is often the case, I will not go into detailed specifics, at this time, because it would only assist those who are against us and our efforts.

However, if any of you need information to pass on to others, or county officials..........


TALKING POINTS FOR SANTA CRUZ RE PROPOSED MORATORIUM ON NEW FFLs

There is no need for the moratorium on establishing new firearm retailers in Santa Cruz County, because:

1) Firearm retailers pose no significant threat to public safety. The City of Sunnyvale recently conducted a study on the impacts of firearm vendors on the surrounding areas and found there is no determinable negative impact;

2) Rather than negatively impacting the community, firearm retailers generate significant revenue and provide good paying jobs, which the County could use in this period of economic hardship. Scaring away good businesses from the County based on irrational fear is not what is best for residents;

3) Firearm vendors are the purveyors of Second Amendment rights. This means that while they are subject to legitimate zoning laws just like any other business, they are entitled to constitutional protections, and cannot be singled out for mistreatment. The County should take this into account when deciding how to zone and treat firearm retailers;

4) The County is inviting litigation by treating firearm retailers unfairly. Alameda County spent over 12 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in litigation costs battling a lawsuit that sought to ban firearm sales;

5) Firearm vendors are heavily regulated under federal and state law, more so than most any other type of business and are renowned for their compliance with the law and law enforcement.

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  #4  
Old 01-11-2013, 4:20 PM
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what time is the meeting? Feb 13, right?
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2013, 4:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otteray View Post
County Supervisor John Leopold is bringing this up at the Tuesday Board Meeting.




http://sccounty01.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/bds/Govstream/BDSvData/non_legacy/agendas/2013/20130115/PDF/043.pdf


With the new Supervisor on the Board (Bruce McPherson) I think we might get hosed, just like we lost with the recent Corralitos/Eureka Canyon target shooting ban, despite all the vocal outcries against it.
Maybe they are pissed that the LAR&G lead test turned out negative, so now they are moving to "plan B," in their desire for an eventual total ban.

Anyone planning to show up at the meeting?
Reading some the comments on that PDF actually makes me sick, with comments associating gun shops with increase in gang activity, no sense of the background checks already in place (comment about only requiring a waiting period and nothing else) and other "I Hate Guns so this is BAD!" type views.

It's obvious if these people wish to not support "this type of business" they won't shop there...

Ugg...It pains me to live in such a Liberal and closed minded County (and State!)

I'll be sending a note to the supervisors later this evening, although unsure what good it will do!
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2013, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movie zombie View Post
what time is the meeting? Feb 13, right?
There is a Proposal next Tuesday at 10:15 AM.
There is a Public Hearing on Feb 12
EDIT:
E-mail the board, please! On their Agenda page, it tells how. Also only a name and comment are required, no address needed.
Quote:
Click on icon to send comments on a particular agenda item to the Board of Supervisors to be entered into the public record. Email comments sent to the attention of an individual supervisor are not required to be entered into the public record.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2013, 6:11 PM
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Reading some of the comments is both encouraging and upsetting.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2013, 6:38 PM
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Get your hands on the Sunnyvale Planning Commission Study.

They proved that there is no correlation between gun shops and increases in crime.

This sounds suspiciously familiar. I bet 2 witnesses and LCAV are pushing the council on this.
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2013, 8:05 PM
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I am not suprised at these tactics


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  #10  
Old 01-12-2013, 5:57 AM
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I'll be there!
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2013, 7:24 AM
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Wow, that's it? Shawdd and me are the only ones showing up tomorrow?
Distressing. We'll be surrounded by the screaming Million Mom March Brady bunch and the LCAV.
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Old 01-14-2013, 7:33 AM
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I'm there.
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Old 01-14-2013, 7:38 AM
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I just emailed John Leopold, the board member that proposed the ban.

EMAIL THE BOARD!

John Leopolds email- john.leopold@co.santa-cruz.ca.us
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2013, 7:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrhiker View Post
I just emailed John Leopold, the board member that proposed the ban.

EMAIL THE BOARD!

John Leopolds email- john.leopold@co.santa-cruz.ca.us
Click on icon to send comments on a particular agenda item to the Board of Supervisors to be entered into the public record. Email comments sent to the attention of an individual supervisor are not required to be entered into the public record.
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Old 01-14-2013, 8:01 AM
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The board would be better, however I did get a quick response from John leopold. Here is his reply and my reply to him:

Thank you for the email.* My intention is neither to outlaw firearms or take advantage of the political moment.* I only found out on last Monday that there was someone who was looking at opening the gun shop and there are reasonable and legitimate land use issues that should be considered.* We have zoning regulations for businesses as seemingly benign as car washes, nail salons, and vacation rentals. We have these rules in place because they impact the environment or the community. Given the nature of the inventory it is reasonable to look at issues with our public safety officials to insure that we have taken the necessary precautions and we can be confident about the safety of the public.

*

I want to have these regulations in place so we can safely establish any gun shops.

*

John

*

*

*

John Leopold

Santa Cruz County Supervisor, 1st District

831-454-2200

john.leopold@co.santa-cruz.ca.us

*


Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:30 AM
To: John Leopold
Subject: Gun shop
to John
Thank you for a quick response.what*are these issues about land use? The nature of the inventory? The inventory will be locked, guarded, protected, and only handled by individuals who are capable and responsible. *As stated previously, the patrons of gun shops are law abiding individuals. The owners are legally described as law abiding. I fail to see what the reasonable, unemotional worry or risk to the community is. I certainly don't see the precedent for a ban.*
When people see acts of violence involving guns they tend to have an emotional response. Using your words: "over the past several years we have witnessed multiple acts of extreme violence by people with guns" I appears you have put the blame for these crime on the shoulders of the law abiding gun community.
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Old 01-14-2013, 9:05 AM
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i can't be there tomorrow......having tree work done and need to be home.

however, i did send the following e-mail to the 5th district supervisor this a.m.:

Supervisor McPherson,

It has recently come to my attention that Supervisor Leopold has proposed a gun shop ban. I hope this is not true. I also understand that his concern is that there are reasonable and legitimate land use issues to be considered. I also understand that he is concerned re the inventory of such a business as regards public safety.

The necessity for zoning regulations is apparent. However, if the address for this business is within an area already zoned for business, I question the reason for this concern on the part of Supervisor Leopold. Gun shops do in fact have an inventory. An inventory that is well regulated and safely stored according to law.

I fear that Supervisor Leopold is not sufficiently educated re laws governing gun shops and gun owners. I believe each and every county of Santa Cruz supervisor should become educated to understand the scope of law that already protects our community re gun issues.

The one thing that law cannot do is protect the community from criminals. Criminals do not nor will they ever respect the law. I think we both can agree on this. Criminals are a threat to our community. Banning gun shops within the county will not keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Such a ban will punish me, a law abiding gunowner who desires to support her local community with her spending dollars.

I look forward to hearing from you regarding this matter.

Sincerely,
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Old 01-14-2013, 9:24 AM
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pure ninny bliss
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc View Post
Get your hands on the Sunnyvale Planning Commission Study.

They proved that there is no correlation between gun shops and increases in crime.

This sounds suspiciously familiar. I bet 2 witnesses and LCAV are pushing the council on this.
You guys, this is boilerplate LCAV (now Legal Community to Prevent Gun Violence LCPGV) stuff. Everybody needs to know about them. They go to every city and county in CA and try to get them to enact restrictions on when and where people can set up FFLs. It's behind the scenes gun control. LCPGV's only goal is to make it procedurally difficult for people to own guns.

They are a harassment group. They have been poking the Sacramento City Council lately about this crap and I've been keeping an eye on the agendas. We need several people in EVERY CA city (and county board of sups) to keep an eye out for them. We've defeated them before and we need to be vigilant to stop them before they get anything done. County of Santa Cruz is a perfect example. Some of the sups may have been duped because they were unaware of who the LCPVG is. We need people to keep our elected officials informed on this crap.

LCPVG is outside special interest. Plain and simple - we need to shame our local legislators if they even think to bowing to outside special interest INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MANAGE THEIR OWN CITY/COUNTY. LCPVG tries to convince legislators that they have a problem. These laws NEVER COME FROM NATIVE RESIDENTS.

Stay informed people, we need everybody to defend against this constant assault.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:22 AM
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this is their new website: http://smartgunlaws.org/
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"Her hands, her comfort, her confidence, her choice.", Mr K re buying a gun for a woman.

Gun Control:
"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
Exactly my point! Have you noticed that in Governor Brown's budget proposal, the new way of funding schools has been renamed from the "student weighted formula" to "local control formula" ? That's a brilliant stroke of marketing. Santa Cruz county is very independent-minded, and that applies particularly to the mountain areas. They like local control

Except that in this case, it cuts both ways. What's good for the gander (LCAV) is good for the goose (pro-gun groups).
Yea, I read through your post but I'm relatively unfamiliar with the issues you talked about. I see what you are saying though. With firearms law, we have one big heavyweight on our side - State Level Pre-Emption. Most freedom-loving people like local control over state or federal control - but when it comes to issues of civil rights, we need a higher authority to lay down the law and protect rights.

Fortunately, CA was "tricked" into protecting gun rights from localities many years ago. I think that was some clever lobbying by the NRA. Anyways, I don't believe FFL zoning is a pre-emption issue and that is why we need to have at least a dozen vigilant gun owners in every city to keep an eye out for LCPGV's crap. I think we have three in Sacramento.... THREE, in a city of 1,000,000. Spread the word...
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  #21  
Old 01-14-2013, 6:09 PM
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Anyone know what the speaking time limit is here? One minute or two?
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Old 01-14-2013, 7:41 PM
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I think the more important question to ask of Mr. Leopold and or Mr. Watkins (Superintendent) is how they can justify the use of school resources and tax payer money to publish this notice and addressing it to the family’s of their students.

Do they do this for every liquor store, dry cleaner, auto parts house or garden nursery that submits such request to open a business and advocate a 45 day moratorium? In fact 3 of the 4 listed business could be required to conduct an EIS and SW3P plans as well health permits for the generation of hazardous waste and one to obtain air permits from the local APCD that could even require public comment period.
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Old 01-14-2013, 7:55 PM
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JJ, please email the board as described earlier here. An address is not required.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:38 AM
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Full house at the BOS meeting. Seems about 50/50 on each side. Line of speakers is out the door. Everyone is more or less on topic. Concern from women's groups on gun violence was discussed often. "A woman doesn't need a gun in her purse."
Lots of school employees present.
Sup Leopold stated the BOA had recently received a letter from CRPA.
It was awesome when one pro-gunny told Sup. Leopold that he was his neighbor, come on over and we'll talk about our gardens and about gun control!
I had to leave because of the parking time limit, darn; but I got my 2 cents in.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:59 AM
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Passes unanimously.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:05 AM
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Good lord. I'm glad you were there. There's steps that need to be taken now. I'm not sure what to do next but the flag needs to be raised with the people who do.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:35 AM
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i did submit a comment to the BOS but note that it clearly states that it must be rec'd the friday before the meeting.........

trees are coming down as i speak.

glad to hear it was about 50/50. given its SCruz, i expected fewer pro-2A persons to be there.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:46 AM
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So much for McPherson being on our side, I guess. I think his NRA rating is sliding down.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:48 AM
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mcpherson is a professional politician.
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"Her hands, her comfort, her confidence, her choice.", Mr K re buying a gun for a woman.

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Old 01-15-2013, 12:09 PM
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As regards McPherson, apparently we would have to wait 90 days. A quick (and probably insufficient) read would indicate that 20% of the number that elected him would be required to force a recall. In my limited experience in this regard, this is a good way to get the attention of a "professional politician."



http://www.votescount.com/recall/recguide.htm
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:11 PM
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I was certainly glad to see a fairly 50/50 balance between those that opposed and those that supported it. It was certainly more than I thought.

Of course, the first person to speak at all, opposed the moratorium, but had to go into a rant about how the Santa Cruz government is in cahoots with everyone in the New World Order and is trying to establish a world government.. Guess who will be on the news tonight.

and what was up with the guy from the Brady foundation who couldn't stop pacing around and had on DARK sunglasses the entire time. He was one of the last speakers but I was watching him wondering how some tweaker got in.

Good points from all who spoke out opposing this. Too bad it didn't help.

I had a good conversation with Zach Friend this morning. Nice guy. He didn't have a problem with a 45 day moratorium to take a look at this, but made it clear to me that he thinks it should be a quick process. He also stated if the recommendations came back for an outright ban on gun shops he would not support that. He is a gun owner/shooter. He made it clear to the board that he wanted to see this done quickly and not have the moratorium keep being extended. I thank him greatly for that. He is in my district and gets my vote. He made a hell of a better impression on myself than Bruce McPherson, who was supposed to be the no vote. No comments from him, just a yes vote. Nice..
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Old 01-15-2013, 2:29 PM
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i will call mcpherson and politely express my disappointment in his "yes" vote.
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Old 01-15-2013, 2:30 PM
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Chainsaw,

I don't know where you would get the idea that I have anyone in mind to replace him. So to be clear, I don't. That is not the nature or purpose of recall. To recall is to fire, not to hire. Further, all outcomes are problematic for all participants regardless of assumptions as to who's the favorite. Assuming "who's next in line" is a fools game, ask Mitt Romney.

Also, regardless of the outcome of any such effort, the point would be to serve notice that ignoring this particular segment of the electorate is a manifestly bad idea. The Supervisors now apparently believe that the gun owning community's interests and wishes can be paid slight lip service and then ignored with impunity. That is what needs to change. (The chilling effect on the entire board of one recall challenge would I think be substantive.)

And finally in regard to that last point, if this morning's vote proved anything it proved that there isn't much to lose in any exchange between Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum.
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Old 01-15-2013, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movie zombie View Post
i will call mcpherson and politely express my disappointment in his "yes" vote.
I would, too. But I'm hesitant because of how his son was murdered in San Francisco.
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Old 01-16-2013, 5:59 AM
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The Santa Cruz county Sheriff was the first person to come up and talk to the board and said he supported the moratorium. I wish he would have said federal and state laws more than cover gun shop regulations.
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Old 01-16-2013, 7:13 AM
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I think that it was a done deal. 50/50 with the speakers and still a quick 5 -0 vote.
The school principal's warning letter to parents didn't make sense either. The El Rancho Center is Portola Dr and 38th Ave, The schools are off of 17th Ave; like a mile away.
It was good just to show up to let the local government and news
media know how Santa Cruz folks reallyfeel. One local writer was suprised that not everyone here supported gun control.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:15 PM
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So sad to hear! I had to work at one of the schools yesterday or I would have been there in full force. Were ALL the women's group anti-gun?? Hopefully as soon as my SAS car signs get here, I can get the word out and get more sane women on board with supporting the 2nd amendment. California is way behind and hasn't had a state coordinator for Second Amendment Sisters in a long time, but that has now changed. We need to bring more women into the fold to help fight the good fight.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:33 PM
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Do y'all need copies of the Sunnyvale report mailed to the City Council? Of course it would be better if they were hand delivered by polite and concerned citizens.

A copy of the Ezell decision might be a nice addition to the delivery.
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Old 01-17-2013, 8:28 AM
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heads up area gun owners!
the anti's will be out in force at this meeting.
i can't be there.
this is a local MoveOn.org event:

Community Committee Against Gun Violence
Meeting TODAY in Santa Cruz
Host: Cecile A.
Where: Laurel and Chestnut (in Santa Cruz)
When: Thursday, Jan. 17, at 5:30 PM
What: Yesterday, President Obama announced the most comprehensive national plan to reduce gun violence in almost two decades. Twenty-three executive orders to better enforce laws on the books to keep dangerous guns off the streets. A ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammo magazines. Mandatory background checks for all gun sales. More than 200 Community Committees Against Gun Violence are meeting today to come up with a local plan for action to stop gun violence, and there's one near you. Can you join us TODAY in Santa Cruz?
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:51 PM
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looking forward to an update
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