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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #281  
Old 03-27-2013, 2:52 PM
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Default Potent briefs.

Alan Gura's reply brief was outstanding.

He writes "clean" easy to read briefs that don't try to baffle people with BS.

Alan will be the "best attorney" to go in front of the SCOTUS on "carry" in the country because not only does he live and breath this stuff, but he has had plenty of practice in front of judges.

Whoever will be on the other side of this case will not have the ability to fight at "orals" on this particular issue as well as "Alan" because no one lawyer on the other side has been at oral hearings in all the CCW cases Alan has argued.

The issue I can't figure out is which direction the SCOTUS will take and the wobbler is the "Moore case".

We are still waiting on to see if Illonis will appeal the "Moore case" because if they do, then my gut tells me that will be the CCW case the SCOTUS will say cert granted.

I guess Madigan thinks if she can stall long enough on the filings, that the SCOTUS will put the 7th circuit ruling on hold.

I just wonder if the following may happen.

The US Supreme Court refuses to grant cert to Illonis leaving the 7th circuit ruling standing and then takes the Kachalsky case for next term.

I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that your appeal of a decision won't happen unless you can show that the original decision was "wrong".

I don't see how Madigan can show where the 7th got it wrong.

The US Supreme Court has already refused on cert on a carry case (Willits) where the state was appealing having to issue CCW permits to people with MEDICAL MARIJUANA CARDS after the Oregon Sheriff's lost in front of the Oregon Supreme Court.

Wasn't that the Oregon sheriffs were "anti-gun", they just had an "issue" with conflict with "federal law".

The SCOTUS does have another issue to consider, Gay Marriage, seriously.

If the SCOTUS takes the Kachalsky case now, could they potentially "fast track" it so that they could release a pro gun ruling right after a "Gay Marriage" ruling.

The week that "Heller" was released, the SCOTUS was releasing rulings and every day public opinion of the court dropped.

When they released "Heller" positive public opinion soared 10 percent in one day.

If the court ruled in favor of Gay Marriage on one day, a positive pro gun ruling released the next day would appease many conservatives.

Justice Roberts and Obama obviously don't get along and Obama is not going to get totally free rides from the court, there will be strings.

It is not Justice Roberts fault that Romney ran a poor campaign, a few Republican Senators had foot in mouth disease and a certain oversized North Eastern Governor who makes the Micheling Man look thin praised Obama's handling of Hurricane Sandy.

Nicki
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  #282  
Old 03-27-2013, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gura
The only thing worse than explicitly refusing to
enforce an enumerated constitutional right would be
to declare a right “fundamental” while standing aside
as lower courts render it worthless. Few outcomes
could promote as much cynicism about our legal
system. If this Court is unprepared to overrule Heller,
it should reverse decisions such as that entered by
the lower court here.
Bingo
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  #283  
Old 03-27-2013, 3:30 PM
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Sometimes when I read Gura's stuff I get happy
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  #284  
Old 03-27-2013, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicki View Post
.
.
.
If the SCOTUS takes the Kachalsky case now, could they potentially "fast track" it so that they could release a pro gun ruling right after a "Gay Marriage" ruling.
.
.
.

Nicki
I had hopes, but now it is clear to even me that they are not going to decide the Kachalsky case this term.

Gura's writing acknowledged that and may have even cemented the timing as next term.
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  #285  
Old 03-27-2013, 4:13 PM
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Gura just plain kicks ***.
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  #286  
Old 03-27-2013, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicki View Post
If the SCOTUS takes the Kachalsky case now, could they potentially "fast track" it so that they could release a pro gun ruling right after a "Gay Marriage" ruling.

The week that "Heller" was released, the SCOTUS was releasing rulings and every day public opinion of the court dropped.

When they released "Heller" positive public opinion soared 10 percent in one day.

If the court ruled in favor of Gay Marriage on one day, a positive pro gun ruling released the next day would appease many conservatives.

Nicki
I think you've missed that the Supreme Court's term runs from October to June of each year, they release the big cases in the last week of June before they go on their summer break. That is why Heller was among several other gigantic rulings that week, McDonald was the same, again, the last week of the term. Its almost April, there is no way Kachalsky could be considered this term, and given the implications of the questions presented, it will be held for the last week of next term.
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  #287  
Old 03-27-2013, 4:45 PM
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Gura's replies are always tasty...this one seemed a bit spicier than normal.

A bit of simmering irritation, with a touch of righteousness, and a whole
bunch of delicious Truth.

Noble
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  #288  
Old 03-27-2013, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Scarecrow Repair View Post
As a side note, you ignore that these illegals pay taxes, and most of them go out of their way to avoid any other illegal activity because they come here to work, not steal. Deny that all you want, but study after study has shown you are wrong.

But thanks for illustrating my argument so nicely. The idea of deporting some kid about to graduate from high school with straight As and a full boat scholarship simply because she was brought to this country when she was 3 months old ... or deporting parents but keeping the kids, then sending the kids to foster homes and orphanages ... can you not distinguish that from the drug cartel soldiers and bums? Are you seriously that blind to the difference, can you not see how just plain barbaric that is to most of the population?

Your attitude is typical of why the Republicans are losing appeal.
Well...... Touchy arent ya?!?!?!?!?!


Seeing as how I've worked a number of undesirable, underpaid crap jobs throughout the years....

I spent a lot of time working side by side with mek suckans and latinos.

I tend to think I understand quite a bit about it....

We have what some people call "traditionals". These are the HARD WORKING LAW ABIDING scraping every penny to get their kids through school to have a better life.

I knew 1, that came here illegally twice. And is currently here legally. His children were then born here legally as well. He is a very hard working, honest man that tries his best to instill the same qualities in his children.

Then you have the 'others'.... A LOT of them..... Who let their kids run rampant and get into illegal activity, gangs, and what not.

Unfortunately, there arent many Traditionals, but there are a LOT of 'others'.

I very highly respect the Traditionals. The others need to be lead out of my country at gun point.
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  #289  
Old 03-27-2013, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
The name Alan Gura must strike fear deep into the hearts of gun control advocates everywhere.
I grant that Alan Gura is indeed a warrior for our rights...but everywhere? Really? Everywhere? Really?

Here in California we still have the AWB, special waiting periods, The Roster, longer waiting periods, the 10-round limit, numerous local restrictions and more and more every day. WTF? If he is our knight on a white horse, then we are truly screwed but it has never gotten better and only worse..
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  #290  
Old 03-27-2013, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
The name Alan Gura must strike fear deep into the hearts of gun control advocates everywhere.
I grant that Alan Gura is indeed a warrior for our rights...but everywhere? Really? Everywhere? Really?

Here in California we still have the AWB, special waiting periods, The Roster, longer waiting periods, the 10-round limit, numerous local restrictions and more and more every day. WTF? If he is our knight on a white horse, then we are truly screwed for it has never gotten better and gotten worse with him as our champion. I laud him for helping teh rest of the nation so maybe the message is CA is lost for all time and they'll focus on saving what is left of the USA. So far anyway.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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  #291  
Old 03-27-2013, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
Really?
Really.
Somehow I think this Alan Gura guy is really going places with this Constitutional Law stuff.



Cap
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  #292  
Old 03-27-2013, 9:07 PM
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This is my favorite part of the brief.
"The only thing worse than explicitly refusing to enforce an enumerated constitutional right would be to declare a right “fundamental” while standing aside as lower courts render it worthless. Few outcomes could promote as much cynicism about our legal system. If this Court is unprepared to overrule Heller, it should reverse decisions such as that entered by the lower court here."
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  #293  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:22 PM
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Wow! I just read in the news that NY Bloomberg offered Alan Gura 52 Million Dollars to change sides!!!

www.foxnewstoday/5938475.com
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  #294  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Dothraki View Post
Wow! I just read in the news that NY Bloomberg offered Alan Gura 52 Million Dollars to change sides!!!

www.foxnewstoday/5938475.com
April fools isn't until Monday.
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  #295  
Old 03-27-2013, 11:08 PM
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Traditionally, how long does it usually take for the supreme court to grant or deny cert after the final reply? 60 days?
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  #296  
Old 03-28-2013, 12:25 AM
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Yes, poke the SCOTUS tiger with a stick. If they bite it will be interesting and quite possibly productive for our rights. One time when "cynicism" is actually a good thing. Go team Gura!
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  #297  
Old 03-28-2013, 6:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Gura's replies are always tasty...this one seemed a bit spicier than normal.

A bit of simmering irritation, with a touch of righteousness, and a whole
bunch of delicious Truth.

Noble

That's how I see it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
I grant that Alan Gura is indeed a warrior for our rights...but everywhere? Really? Everywhere? Really?

Here in California we still have the AWB, special waiting periods, The Roster, longer waiting periods, the 10-round limit, numerous local restrictions and more and more every day. WTF? If he is our knight on a white horse, then we are truly screwed but it has never gotten better and only worse..

Yes, really. There's simply nothing to be gained by fighting that stuff here in the PRK. The ONLY way to win the fight is in SCOTUS. That's where Our Hero shines.


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  #298  
Old 03-28-2013, 7:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mulay El Raisuli View Post
That's how I see it.





Yes, really. There's simply nothing to be gained by fighting that stuff here in the PRK. The ONLY way to win the fight is in SCOTUS. That's where Our Hero shines.


The Raisuli
I agree. See my lower sig line quoting Don Kilmer,,,,,,
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I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
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  #299  
Old 03-28-2013, 7:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
I grant that Alan Gura is indeed a warrior for our rights...but everywhere? Really? Everywhere? Really?

Here in California we still have the AWB, special waiting periods, The Roster, longer waiting periods, the 10-round limit, numerous local restrictions and more and more every day. WTF? If he is our knight on a white horse, then we are truly screwed for it has never gotten better and gotten worse with him as our champion. I laud him for helping teh rest of the nation so maybe the message is CA is lost for all time and they'll focus on saving what is left of the USA. So far anyway.
Patience is a virtue

The courts in the 9th circus tend to have a uncanny ability to weasle their way around cases ruling and remanding back to a lower court or finding a reason to delay upon delay. other circuit courts seem to be interested in at least ruling on the 2nd allowing ti to at least be challenged in a timely fashion ...... no matter what SCOTUS applies universally so relief will come to CA over time remember you've only had this recognized individual right for a few years and each of these challenges asking for specific clearification takes time to find the right case and structure the right question and get it througha court system that wont delay or claim no standing.
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  #300  
Old 03-28-2013, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dothraki View Post
Wow! I just read in the news that NY Bloomberg offered Alan Gura 52 Million Dollars to change sides!!!

www.foxnewstoday/5938475.com
Your link showed this: Sorry, the website www.foxnewstoday cannot be found
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  #301  
Old 03-28-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by safewaysecurity View Post
Traditionally, how long does it usually take for the supreme court to grant or deny cert after the final reply? 60 days?
It's on the conference schedule for April 12th, I expect a decision on April 15th(next business day). It's possible though it gets relisted and then will delay a week or 2 till the next conference date.
It won't be 60 days, barring highly unusual events.
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  #302  
Old 03-28-2013, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CapS View Post
Really.
Somehow I think this Alan Gura guy is really going places with this Constitutional Law stuff.



Cap

I love his style: cogent, concise, and compelling. And SCOTUS listens, but the PRK coud give a d@mn if and SCOTUS has done NOTHING about the PRK's refusals. That's why I doubted the "everywhere" and now CO, NJ, and NY have joined not everywhere land. The big wins of McDonald and Heller have done nothing for us in the PRK ruled by the Caliban, in fact things have been getting worse since them.
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  #303  
Old 03-28-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ddestruel View Post
Patience is a virtue

The courts in the 9th circus tend to have a uncanny ability to weasle their way around cases ruling and remanding back to a lower court or finding a reason to delay upon delay. other circuit courts seem to be interested in at least ruling on the 2nd allowing ti to at least be challenged in a timely fashion ...... no matter what SCOTUS applies universally so relief will come to CA over time remember you've only had this recognized individual right for a few years and each of these challenges asking for specific clearification takes time to find the right case and structure the right question and get it througha court system that wont delay or claim no standing.
I understand patience is important. I will keep fighting (not fighting will hasten our right's demise), but if the onslaught continues apace while relief is non-existent, our position will be completely overrun before any relief comes. At this glacial pace, we'll have completely lost our right and all of our guns and ammo before any relief comes and it will come to our grandchildren when there are no guns for them to inherit making the victory moot.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
-- John Dean "Jeff" Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

Last edited by advocatusdiaboli; 03-28-2013 at 12:15 PM..
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  #304  
Old 03-28-2013, 12:43 PM
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As a reminder to all, this matter is not a California only issue. It is a national battle and the best overall cases, that if won will impact this state as well, are from back East. And look how far we've come: Kachalsky is scheduled for an April 12 cert conference; orals are done in Piszozatoksi; Wollard and (possibly) Moore are in play. There are four sound cases, all similar in a material way, argued on our behalf by the best in the field. We are at the end game. The liberals have to win all; we have only to win one and the world shifts and takes California with it. As our friends say, this being Passover week, "Next year in Jerusalem!"
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Old 03-28-2013, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Southwest Chuck View Post
I agree. See my lower sig line quoting Don Kilmer,,,,,,

Thanks.

Kilmer is right. That's why Gura is Our Hero.


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Originally Posted by Peaceful John View Post
As a reminder to all, this matter is not a California only issue. It is a national battle and the best overall cases, that if won will impact this state as well, are from back East. And look how far we've come: Kachalsky is scheduled for an April 12 cert conference; orals are done in Piszozatoksi; Wollard and (possibly) Moore are in play. There are four sound cases, all similar in a material way, argued on our behalf by the best in the field. We are at the end game. The liberals have to win all; we have only to win one and the world shifts and takes California with it. As our friends say, this being Passover week, "Next year in Jerusalem!"

Yes. I had thought that getting 'outside the home' recognized by the Circuits would do the trick. But that the 2nd Circuit would acknowledge 'outside the home,' while at the same time Ruling that anything less than strict scrutiny could be applied to a Right that is fundamental to American jurisprudence really surprised me.

Still, you are correct. McDonald didn't make comments about the 2A being fundamental. It was the very basis of the Ruling. So, I'm confident that the Heller 5 won't let that nonsense stand. Add in that 'outside the home' seems to be conceded & the road to (imminent) victory is before us. Every trick used by the anti-Constitutionalists is based on two false beliefs: Heller only applied to in the home & strict scrutiny isn't required. With both of those gone, there's really nothing in the way of freedom.

Of course, I've been wrong before, so keep that in mind.


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  #306  
Old 03-28-2013, 3:59 PM
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Gura was as always absolutely brilliant. It's pretty obvious that he's getting frustrated with with SCOTUS' failure to slap down the ongoing and I think worsening judicial rebellion. I'm still not willing to bet so much as tomorrow's lunch money that SCOTUS has the will to grant cert and if not now then probably not for years. In my opinion that's why he felt that he had to rub their judicial noses in the fact that courts all over the country are thumbing their noses and waving their middle fingers at the Supreme Court and the justices.

The extra scary part is that if the Supreme Court doesn't put down the rebellion soon then you can count on lower courts to see that as a license to start interpreting Heller more and more narrowly until it's in the home only and then only on every 3rd February 29th and only while loaded with pixie dust bullets factory engraved with the owner's name and picture.
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  #307  
Old 03-28-2013, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. D. Van Norman View Post
Alan Gura’s reply brief in Kachalsky has been filed.
Excellent conclusion saying to the Court it is your duty to grant the Cert petition:

"The only thing worse than explicitly refusing to enforce an enumerated constitutional right would be to declare a right “fundamental” while standing aside as lower courts render it worthless. Few outcomes could promote as much cynicism about our legal system. If this Court is unprepared to overrule Heller, it should reverse decisions such as that entered by the lower court here."
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  #308  
Old 04-02-2013, 8:10 AM
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http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files...lsky-v-cacace/


Mar 27 2013 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of April 12, 2013

we'll know soon enough if they grant cert, 2 weeks?
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Old 04-02-2013, 8:38 AM
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13 days.
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Old 04-02-2013, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eville View Post
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files...lsky-v-cacace/


Mar 27 2013 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of April 12, 2013

we'll know soon enough if they grant cert, 2 weeks?
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Old 04-02-2013, 9:41 AM
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We should know the following business day, on Monday, April 15th.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:19 AM
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8 days ......
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:00 PM
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Kachalsky has made SCOTUSBlog's Petitions We're Watching list for next Friday and was the Petition of the Day for 1 April. Both are good signs.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kharn View Post
Kachalsky has made SCOTUSBlog's Petitions We're Watching list for next Friday and was the Petition of the Day for 1 April. Both are good signs.
Yeah, that's great to see! Most of the other issues they have on their watchlist are not as weighty and none deal with enumerated rights so directly. Looking at the other cases there, I can't see how they could ignore Kachalsky. Unless something happens to one of our Five, I'm quite certain we will get a good ruling on this.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:48 PM
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And what does this do for us
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:51 PM
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Assuming SCOTUS does the right thing, this would clarify that "bear" means "carry," thus striking down "may issue" of carry permits in the absence of legal open carry.
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Old 04-04-2013, 1:24 PM
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And what does this do for us
Nothing directly. However it shows the court watchers believe it'll get cert.
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Old 04-04-2013, 2:00 PM
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The entire political arm of government in this country needs to be ***** slapped.
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Old 04-04-2013, 2:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kharn View Post
Kachalsky has made SCOTUSBlog's Petitions We're Watching list for next Friday and was the Petition of the Day for 1 April. Both are good signs.
Is there something funny about that date or is it just me?...
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Old 04-04-2013, 2:39 PM
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Counting down the days until the conference and hopefully the Cert grant. Watching this like a hawk. Ifcourt decides this case in our favor then may issue is gone and carry rights are recognized and a clearly and stronger 2A will emerge.
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