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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:37 PM
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Default SCOTUS Cert Petition for Carry filed - Kachalsky || Cert DENIED 4/15

Earlier today, Alan Gura filed on behalf of individual plaintiffs and SAF this petition for cert to the US Supreme Court in the matter of Kachalsky v Cacace.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/kac...2013-01-08.pdf

This is asking SCOTUS to take and decide whether discretionary issuance of carry licenses is unconstitutional. It points out the circuit split with Moore in the 7th Circuit.

Interestingly, IL filed for en-banc review in Moore arguing that that case did indeed create a circuit split. Filing: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/moo...2013-01-08.pdf

This case has time to be granted this session (which ends in late June of 2013) but, if granted, would likely be orally argued at the beginning of the 2014 session which is fall of 2013.

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Last edited by hoffmang; 01-08-2013 at 8:24 PM.. Reason: misspelled Cacace
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Old 01-08-2013, 4:40 PM
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Been waiting for this!!!!

Expect all CA9 carry cases to be put on hold pending this case if it gets cert though....
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Old 01-08-2013, 4:41 PM
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The name Alan Gura must strike fear deep into the hearts of gun control advocates everywhere.
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Old 01-08-2013, 4:56 PM
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I haven't been following all the cases closely, but to me it looks like a win here would result in nationwide shall-issue. Which would only be change in a few states - one of those, of course, being California.
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Old 01-08-2013, 4:56 PM
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I haven't been following all the cases closely, but to me it looks like a win here would result in nationwide shall-issue. Which would only be change in a few states - one of those, of course, being California.
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Old 01-08-2013, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
Been waiting for this!!!!
Yeah this needs to happen, the sooner the better. Some of our five justices are getting old, and anyone picked by Obama is going to be a progressive activist, and young, and deeply hostile to all individual rights, except for the right to free stuff and open borders.

If we don't get this win now it will never happen. Is this the first "bear" case that's at this stage?

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Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
Expect all CA9 carry cases to be put on hold pending this case if it gets cert though....
IANAL but I assume that's what would happen?

That's a good thing because one of the cases in CA9 is the Gorski case and it would be terrible if that went any further.

It's a bummer that we will have to wait until late 2014 for our right to carry here in California's hold-out areas, but better late than never. I knew it would take years for this issue to get to a decision point.

What are the odds of cert being granted on this case? I assume pretty high?
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Old 01-08-2013, 5:14 PM
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You guys are simply Great Americans, thank you for all your hard work
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Old 01-08-2013, 5:17 PM
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That is......big. Thank you, everyone involved, for the hard work.
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Old 01-08-2013, 5:17 PM
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This is good to see. Guidance from SCOTUS on bear will be a big turning point.
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Old 01-08-2013, 5:33 PM
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WooHoo!!

Gura Gura Gura
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Old 01-08-2013, 5:41 PM
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Thanks for this bright spot among dark news everywhere these days sir!
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Old 01-08-2013, 5:52 PM
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Gene,
Thank you for posting. Hank
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Old 01-08-2013, 6:01 PM
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How common is it for enbanc to reverse a panels decision?
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Old 01-08-2013, 6:25 PM
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Good news. I hope to see this one turn out well.
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Old 01-08-2013, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
If we don't get this win now it will never happen. Is this the first "bear" case that's at this stage?

...

What are the odds of cert being granted on this case? I assume pretty high?
This is the first case that we're in a place to appeal. We won Moore and it's a little further behind. It obviously appears that Hightower will not be asked for cert.

The split gives this case pretty decent odds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogstir View Post
How common is it for enbanc to reverse a panels decision?
Not very common and it's another common impetus that would drive a cert grant as well. Said another way - SCOTUS looks closely at cases that went en-banc at the cert stage. However, the fact that Moore is out there is good for the Kachalsky petition.

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Old 01-08-2013, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
This is the first case that we're in a place to appeal. We won Moore and it's a little further behind.

The split gives this case pretty decent odds.
That's great. This case was designed from the very beginning to go to SCOTUS, and the guy behind it is the guy who so far has the best track record with 2A SCOTUS cases, and that's what I want.

I like the tone of urgency in this brief, because it is urgent. This is the last shot. We may never again have a conservative majority on SCOTUS.
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Old 01-08-2013, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
Yeah this needs to happen, the sooner the better. Some of our five justices are getting old, and anyone picked by Obama is going to be a progressive activist, and young, and deeply hostile to all individual rights especially the second amendment

What are the odds of cert being granted on this case? I assume pretty high?
considering Moore is hot on its tail, i'll be interested to see if that is granted en banc by the 7th. If it isnt and illinois asks SCOTUS to take it up then you'd have two prime clean clear cut cases sitting there with both law abiding citizens which iirc has been the underlaying issue on previous SCOTUS 2nd ammendment challenges since Mcdonald.

lord knows the CA9 is a precursor of SCOTUS in the future if progressives and living document justices keep being nominated and approved.......

God's speed to this case. I'll put money on it thinking that its going to be accepted ....... in the form of a SAF / CG donation
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Old 01-08-2013, 9:16 PM
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Do we know how long they have to accept or deny the case? Is it still possible for a decision by June?
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Old 01-08-2013, 9:31 PM
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Thank you all for your hard work and effort. Glad to be associated with patriots.
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Old 01-08-2013, 9:58 PM
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Gura is awesome here as usual.

This bit is pure gold:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kachalsky cert petition
The aversion to enforcing the Second Amendment manifested by some of the lower courts is difficult to overstate. The District of New Jersey, for example, faced with a challenge to that state’s identical law, simply declared the entire Second Amendment field outside the home a nuisance from which it would shield government lawyers. “Given the considerable uncertainty regarding if and when the Second Amendment rights should apply outside the home, this Court does not intend to place a burden on the government to endlessly litigate and justify every individual limitation on the right to carry a gun in any location for any purpose.” Piszczatoski v. Filko, 840 F. Supp. 2d 813, 829 (D.N.J. 2012), appeal pending, No. 12-1150 (3d Cir. filed Jan. 16, 2012).
(emphasis mine)

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Old 01-08-2013, 11:20 PM
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I'm an atheist but I think I'll get down on my knees and PRAY that no conservative member of the SCOTUS dies between now and then!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:25 PM
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Thumbs up Alan Gura!



Thanks Gene, this is great news!

And I will admonish my fellow Calguns members here to please support the SAF and if you have already done so, thank you and maybe do a little bit more!

Sorry, however I have to ask....how much influence will recent events (criminal, political, etc.) have on SCOTUS and specifically the Heller five in regards to granting cert here?
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
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I'm an atheist but I think I'll get down on my knees and PRAY that no conservative member of the SCOTUS dies between now and then!!
Amen to that and God Bless you!
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:12 AM
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God bless that man. Hopefully this gets through quick and is a win. Then maybe we can work on the extortion fees that is ccw permits after it goes shall issue. Seriously. My last three states of residence dont charge over 300 to get a permit.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eville View Post
Do we know how long they have to accept or deny the case? Is it still possible for a decision by June?
I'd like to know the answer here as well. Is it too late for a 2013 decision?
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Old 01-09-2013, 5:26 AM
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WooHoo!!

Gura Gura Gura
Go Alan go. I wonder if this would put another nail in the gun banners coffin if the ruling goes our way?
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Old 01-09-2013, 5:38 AM
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Very nice good job alan!
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Old 01-09-2013, 6:15 AM
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Gene, thanks for offering a ray of sunshine in the midst of the current storm for us gun owners.
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Old 01-09-2013, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
Yeah this needs to happen, the sooner the better. Some of our five justices are getting old, and anyone picked by Obama is going to be a progressive activist, and young, and deeply hostile to all individual rights, except for the right to free stuff and open borders.

If we don't get this win now it will never happen. Is this the first "bear" case that's at this stage?



IANAL but I assume that's what would happen?

That's a good thing because one of the cases in CA9 is the Gorski case and it would be terrible if that went any further.

It's a bummer that we will have to wait until late 2014 for our right to carry here in California's hold-out areas, but better late than never. I knew it would take years for this issue to get to a decision point.

What are the odds of cert being granted on this case? I assume pretty high?

Oh, yes!


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Old 01-09-2013, 9:05 AM
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Thank you Sir!
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Old 01-09-2013, 9:52 AM
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Not gonna hold my breath. But if it should be decided in our favor, good.

Moving on now.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
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I'd like to know the answer here as well. Is it too late for a 2013 decision?
Most likely yes. It would take everything falling perfectly to even have a chance to be heard this term. However, we'll almost definitely have a decision on whether or not to hear the case before the end of this term.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:16 AM
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Sweet Jesus

Every day the mainstream media is beating the 2A like a rented mule and it's starting to get me down. Thanks for sharing this great update!
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:34 AM
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Finally, some good news!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
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Gura is awesome here as usual.

This bit is pure gold:



(emphasis mine)

There are certainly some gems in this one.....and I am only about halfway done.
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Old 01-09-2013, 2:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eville View Post
Do we know how long they have to accept or deny the case? Is it still possible for a decision by June?
There will be some procedural machinations (like whether NY chooses to oppose or has to be ordered to respond by SCOTUS) that will mean we will not see it "in conference" for 60-90 days. It is highly likely that we will know if the case will be heard before the end of June (when SCOTUS recesses.) However, it is very unlikely that it would be orally argued before the start of next term (October 2013) and even less likely that we'd have a decision before the 2013-2014 term. If granted, the worst case timing is late June 2014 though it could be earlier in that term. History counsels that we'd see a decision, if granted, in June 2X, 2014.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja Daze View Post
Sorry, however I have to ask....how much influence will recent events (criminal, political, etc.) have on SCOTUS and specifically the Heller five in regards to granting cert here?
That's unknowable. On the one side, things are crazy. On the other side, the reason we have a constitution is to save us from majoritarian mad passion. Recall that either way, the key decisions on this case will get made quite a few weeks and months from the current news cycle.

-Gene
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Old 01-09-2013, 4:05 PM
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Very good indeed. I see many reasons why cert should be granted and this case heard. Lets hope the current political climate doesnt play an important in deciding whether to take this case. Be very good to have this decided by SCOTUS as its nearly identical to CA CCW provisions.

Thanks Gene for the update.
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Old 01-09-2013, 4:12 PM
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Something with a glimmer of sunshine in the darkness is good. Awesome news from the Gura front. Thanks Gene
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Old 01-09-2013, 4:45 PM
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Excellent!

However, anybody know how to properly pronounce Kachalsky v Cacace?
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  #40  
Old 01-09-2013, 4:55 PM
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Quote:
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Excellent!

However, anybody know how to properly pronounce Kachalsky v Cacace?
Kachalsky is easy. Cacace is pronounced "Ka-case".
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