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  #1  
Old 12-18-2012, 11:38 AM
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Default Local teacher lectures and humiliates teen in class wearing SBR sweatshirt

My buddy sent this too me. I hope I posted this in the right sub forum and not a dupe.

Just not cool.

http://mylifepartdos.wordpress.com/2...-this-morning/
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Last edited by knerona; 12-18-2012 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 12-18-2012, 1:00 PM
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Wow WTF?! Yet another reason I have put off having children. I would rage over this ****.
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Old 12-18-2012, 1:25 PM
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Thanks for the link.

One thing I've told all my kids is that school is really more like a prison.

There is no real tolerance, it isn't fair and teachers don't do what they say.

You just have to deal with it or move to a different school. (which we did do in one case)
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Old 12-18-2012, 1:42 PM
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Another idiot, who has no business being a teacher.

Last edited by retired; 12-18-2012 at 3:32 PM.. Reason: word filter
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Old 12-18-2012, 1:46 PM
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I didn't see it in the comment threads but isn't there also a potential civil rights violation here too? (somewhere between first and second amendment)
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Old 12-18-2012, 1:52 PM
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A sad mis-use of power by a teacher.
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:00 PM
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This struck me as odd: "Glorification of guns should not be part of a school culture." - Teacher

My high school had (and still has) a rifle club. It is an officially sanctioned school sport. The school has its own indoor range, in fact. And I'm sure there are plenty of other schools across the country that do as well — the fact that my alma mater competes against other schools in the league in riflery proves that other schools do.

So if this teacher feels guns shouldn't be glorified in schools, maybe he should open his eyes a little and see that it is, and from many schools themselves.


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Originally Posted by PassTheAmmo View Post
I didn't see it in the comment threads but isn't there also a potential civil rights violation here too? (somewhere between first and second amendment)
Depends on if it's a public or private school. A private school can do what they want. A public school is another story. I presume this story is about a public school, though. In any event, I remember from when I was in middle school (public), that clothing that depicted violence or weapons were not aloud.

Last edited by FourT6and2; 12-18-2012 at 2:03 PM..
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:11 PM
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I just noticed that on her blog in the "for those that are new here", she doesn't mention a 15 year old daughter but only her husband, two boys and an adult daughter serving in the Army...

Hope I didn't post something fabricated...
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knerona View Post
I just noticed that on her blog in the "for those that are new here", she doesn't mention a 15 year old daughter but only her husband, two boys and an adult daughter serving in the Army...

Hope I didn't post something fabricated...
It's not fabricated. It's my wife, and one of my 3 daughters that's involved.
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:19 PM
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Can you cut and paste the info? Page is blocked for me.
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsgunsandchics View Post
It's not fabricated. It's my wife, and one of my 3 daughters that's involved.
I sincerely apologize, no harm or foul was intended in that last post.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you guys, and to many others out there in the school system work and beyond.

I hope that everything works out and that your daughter gets through it. Teens have enough to deal with, especially now.
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knerona View Post
I sincerely apologize, no harm or foul was intended in that last post.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you guys, and to many others out there in the school system work and beyond.

I hope that everything works out and that your daughter gets through it. Teens have enough to deal with, especially now.
I didn't read into it as a foul or any harm. You were in question and wanted to know, plain and simple. You didn't just jump into conclusions and run with it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:27 PM
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Quoted from what started it.

DEC
17
And then this happened this morning.
Posted on December 17, 2012 by Margaret
And then this happened this morning.
The 15yo called me, in tears. Her history teacher talked about the events on Friday morning, humiliated her in class because she was wearing a Sacramento Black Rifle sweatshirt, told her to remove it, and segregated her from the class when she did not. (It’s cold, she doesn’t have another sweatshirt with her.) Then, as class let out, he stood outside the classroom and continued to humiliate her as she left the classroom. [This sweatshirt has the SBR logo on the front of it. She has been wearing this sweatshirt for about 2wks now. It is not a new thing, just put on today. She will probably wear it again tomorrow.]

I’m waiting for a call back from the assistant principal who is in charge of this teacher. I had one secretary tell me I needed to speak with the teacher first. Umm, no. I’m going up the chain of command.

I called husband to let him know. He is angry. And wants a letter of apology from the school and a verbal apology from the teacher in front of the class. I think that’s reasonable.

If this is how teachers are going to respond in the wake of a violent act against children, is it any wonder that I homeschool my boys? Maybe I should homeschool her, too.

#Angry #NotOk #DontMakeMeHomeschoolHerToo

———- ———- ———-

Edited to add:

I spoke with the assistant principal. She spoke with 15yo in her office and the teacher in passing. I think there’s going to be another meeting with the teacher. She advised that we make contact with the teacher to get some resolution for this, and if it doesn’t happen to our satisfaction, then we contact her again.

I’m now composing an email to the teacher.

———- ———- ———-

Edited to add:

This is the email exchange that happened between me and the staff at the school (assistant principal, principal, counselor – altho only the teacher did the talking). All names have been removed.

~~~~~

From me to teacher:

Teacher -

I am sure you are aware of why I am emailing you.

15yo called me in tears regarding the issue that happened in class today.

As she tells it: she needed help, you came to her, and then started talking about her sweatshirt and the events on Friday, told her to turn it inside out or take it off, she refused, then you told her to finish her schoolwork in the storage room, thus segregating her from the rest of the class, and after class you stood outside the classroom and continued to talk about it.

We (her father, mother, and myself) are justifiably angry and concerned about this. From 15yo’s recounting of the issue in class, we see that:

– You used your personal opinion to single out a child. If it was a general classroom discussion, and everyone was voicing their opinions about something, it would be different. But from what we understand, it was only you.
– You chose to humiliate a student in front of others.
– This looks like bullying behavior. When we, as a society, understand that bullying between students causes negative reactions, and then we, as parents, hear that a teacher has bullied a student, we have to wonder where the students are learning this behavior. I believe it’s learned from a variety of sources, but I fully believe it should never be learned from teacher to student.
– You made 15yo feel as if she was part of the events on Friday. She knows she was not, we know she was not, you know she was not. But whatever you said made her feel this way.
– You sent her out of the classroom because she was wearing a sweatshirt that is not against school policy. This is segregation based on personal opinion. This is humiliation. This is saying she’s not welcome in your classroom and she doesn’t belong.
– As a result of this, she did not feel safe in the classroom. In the wake of such horrific events as those on Friday, this should never happen.

I have spoken to Assistant Principal about this, and she stated the best way to go forward was for us to communicate with you and see if we could come to a solution that works for everyone. There is the chance that your version is different than 15yo’s, and we are open to hearing that. Right now we are expecting a verbal apology in class as that’s where the incident took place.

15yo is talking about being homeschooled because of this event. While I am willing to take that step, I would rather see this resolved in a way that is respectful to her, and for her to continue schooling at High School.

Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter, and I hope to hear from you soon.

~~~~~

From Teacher to me:

When I walked by 15yo while she and fellow students were working together on a final review project I saw that she had a black sweatshirt with a semi-automatic rifle on it. I asked her, which only her neighboring students could hear, if she realized what had happened on Friday. She did not make it clear whether she had or had not, as she usually is reticent about talking out loud in class. When she was unclear I continued to ask if she understood what had happened. I still did not receive a clear answer. I told her that I had spent the weekend hearing about and reading about what had happened and could not look at a sweatshirt that had a weapon on it that was similar to that used on Friday that was used to fire multiple bullets into five-year-olds. I asked her if she could turn it inside out or take it off. She said she couldn’t or wouldn’t. I then asked her to go into the storage room, where students go to make up tests or work quietly if they need to. I was not gentle in my words as I explained what had happened and I know I upset 15yo. I did not see her behavior as defiant but I did not understand it and she could not explain. I was not going to leave her sitting there with a sweatshirt that for my 26 years at High School has been against school policy. If such a change has been made, it has never been made public and if it was the faculty at this school would not support such a policy. If you want to make this a case about her right to wear the shirt I will not change my position.
I do regret that 15yo would have to feel the brunt of this as she seemed to be oblivious of the role she was playing and I am sorry she should have been made the center of some attention today. My wife was an elementary school principal and two of my children work at elementary schools. Glorification of guns should not be part of a school culture. I do not understand how she came to school on this day, with flags at half-mast, with this display. We can discuss all of this further.

~~~~~

My response to Teacher:

To the staff following this email -

After speaking with 15yo’s mother and father, we have come to the conclusion that 15yo will not be returning to High School. We will come in the morning to return 15yo’s books and to get a copy of her transcript.

Teacher -

Just because you do not understand the behavior of a child, does not mean the next course of action should be to remove the child from the classroom.

Assistant Principal confirmed with me and with 15yo that her sweatshirt was not against school policy. Regardless, if you thought it was against school policy, why didn’t you say anything about it prior to today? She has been wearing this sweatshirt to school for at least the last week, if not longer.

We do not understand what you mean by “the role she was playing”. 15yo was a student in your class. That was her role. Nothing more. Wearing a sweatshirt with a rifle on the front of it does not mean she was playing a role or was in any way connected to the horrible events in CT. It also doesn’t mean that there was any “glorification of guns” going on. It’s just a sweatshirt. She wasn’t drawing attention to it. She wasn’t talking about it. She wasn’t doing anything out of the ordinary for who she is.

We understand your position. You have family who work in elementary schools. I have two boys who are in elementary school grades. We get it. But in our opinion, you singled out a student and let your personal views of the events cloud your judgement of the situation. That is unacceptable.

~~~~~

Someone on Twitter mentioned speaking to the union legal counsel about this, and we might do that. We may end up in an impromptu meeting tomorrow morning when we turn in her books.

She starts at the same charter school as the boys in January. I have already spoken with our ES about this, and we are all on the same page.
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:29 PM
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Wow.
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Old 12-18-2012, 2:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsgunsandchics View Post
It's not fabricated. It's my wife, and one of my 3 daughters that's involved.
i can donate $5 towards her getting another sweat shirt like the one she was wearing. that way she can change em out. having raised 3 kids,i would be upset about this case of a teacher bullying a student. i read your stuff and finally read HE--- so now it is a male teacher bullying a female student which is even worse in my opinion.
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Old 12-18-2012, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knerona View Post
I just noticed that on her blog in the "for those that are new here", she doesn't mention a 15 year old daughter but only her husband, two boys and an adult daughter serving in the Army...

Hope I didn't post something fabricated...
I don't mention the stepkids on that page because they are not "mine" by birth or legal action. But further down on the main page of the blog there is a photo of all of us - minus our adult daughter, who is serving in the Army.

No harm, no foul.

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Old 12-18-2012, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knerona View Post
I sincerely apologize, no harm or foul was intended in that last post.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you guys, and to many others out there in the school system work and beyond.

I hope that everything works out and that your daughter gets through it. Teens have enough to deal with, especially now.
Our daughter is doing fine. She is amazed and loving the amount of support she and our family has been shown by people she doesn't even know.

Thank you.
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Old 12-18-2012, 3:13 PM
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Where the heck is the men in this high school? I've only been out of high school for 3 years now but if that was going on while I was in school I would have ripped the teacher a new one. These damn kids are such damn pansies, stand up for what's right!

Last edited by retired; 12-18-2012 at 3:33 PM.. Reason: word filter
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Old 12-18-2012, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PassTheAmmo View Post
I didn't see it in the comment threads but isn't there also a potential civil rights violation here too? (somewhere between first and second amendment)
Somewhere between the first and second amendment?

Not sure you are being serious but I am going to go ahead and guess you are not lawyer.
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Old 12-18-2012, 3:19 PM
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I am always disgusted at people who believe that because something makes them uncomfortable that it is wrong and should not be allowed.

wear your sweatshirt with pride as you've done nothing incorrect!
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Old 12-18-2012, 3:28 PM
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If there are any more posts concerning what the poster wants to do or would do to the teacher, this thread will be closed. Comments relating to using violence against or confronting the teacher verbally in a manner that leos would be called are not appropriate.
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Old 12-18-2012, 3:35 PM
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If I understand correctly, this teacher had nothing to do with the situation in CT other than watching it on tv.
So what makes him think he has anything to do with it. The "we" and "us" insanity that is used in the media?
And worse, he is so disillusioned he thinks this girl with a sweatshirt on has an involvement in the situation as well?
I think the guy needs a psychiatrist.
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Old 12-18-2012, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retired View Post
If there are any more posts concerning what the poster wants to do or would do to the teacher, this thread will be closed. Comments relating to using violence against or confronting the teacher verbally in a manner that leos would be called are not appropriate.
What are you a Cop? I keed I keed.
Thanks retired.

I'm guessing by the calls to my wife from local parties that are interested in this coming to something. This thread might come into use by others per usual, and I'd like it to not sound like theirs when they talk about us if possible.
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Old 12-18-2012, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not-fishing View Post
Thanks for the link.

One thing I've told all my kids is that school is really more like a prison.

There is no real tolerance, it isn't fair and teachers don't do what they say.

You just have to deal with it or move to a different school. (which we did do in one case)

I couldn't agree more more... My enjoyment of school ended in the 2nd grade because of a jerk of a teacher... Both my daughters were home schooled once mine encountered a similar twit...

If we could, I'd say pull all our kids out of Public schools for the safety of the children. Especially will all the NRA and gun scapegoating now in full idiotic swing...

Last edited by retired; 12-18-2012 at 3:59 PM.. Reason: word filter
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Old 12-18-2012, 4:04 PM
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Also, don't attempt to post profane words. The word filter will catch it and the asterisks don't fool anyone. I have edited those posts, but they will be deleted in the future.
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Old 12-18-2012, 4:10 PM
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Somewhere between the first and second amendment?

Not sure you are being serious but I am going to go ahead and guess you are not lawyer.
I'm definitely not a lawyer, but I was being serious. She was penalized for an expression that I think would be within her first amendment rights as that expression does not harm anyone (it's not yelling fire in a theater). Additionally it is a conflict over a subject covered by the second amendment. Therefore my phrasing "somewhere between".

I don't think it is any different at all than having a teacher humiliate her for wearing a shirt that advertises an organization that promotes search and seizure activism, or any other civil right.

Not to excuse him and all that said, it's been a hard weekend for a lot of people and I'm pretty sure the teacher was probably pretty shaken up. If he makes it right I'd give him a pass. Most teachers are doing what they do because they love kids, certainly not for the pay. Hopefully he's an otherwise good guy that just had a little bit of his optimism about the world stolen.

I can empathize with him. It's a big eye opener when you realize your workplace is not as safe as you thought and that these things really do happen to you and I. I an feel for him. I went through the same eye opener when I was present during the SoCal Edison shootings 368 days ago.
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Old 12-18-2012, 4:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsgunsandchics View Post
It's not fabricated. It's my wife, and one of my 3 daughters that's involved.
Ummm... honestly, just reading what the teacher wrote was painful. Never mind the content, but the writing style was incredibly juvenile.

Bluntly, the teacher's qualifications have to be questioned. He just comes across as, well, stupid. No ability to respond to a well-written request for a response.

I think the dialogue should change to the teacher responding to why he should be allowed to continue teaching given this act of bullying aggression.

btw, can a teacher detain someone in a "storage room"?!

Last edited by razorx; 12-18-2012 at 4:13 PM..
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Old 12-18-2012, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsgunsandchics View Post
Quoted from what started it.

DEC
17
And then this happened this morning.
Posted on December 17, 2012 by Margaret
And then this happened this morning.
The 15yo called me, in tears. Her history teacher talked about the events on Friday morning, humiliated her in class because she was wearing a Sacramento Black Rifle sweatshirt, told her to remove it, and segregated her from the class when she did not. (It’s cold, she doesn’t have another sweatshirt with her.) Then, as class let out, he stood outside the classroom and continued to humiliate her as she left the classroom. [This sweatshirt has the SBR logo on the front of it. She has been wearing this sweatshirt for about 2wks now. It is not a new thing, just put on today. She will probably wear it again tomorrow.]

I’m waiting for a call back from the assistant principal who is in charge of this teacher. I had one secretary tell me I needed to speak with the teacher first. Umm, no. I’m going up the chain of command.

I called husband to let him know. He is angry. And wants a letter of apology from the school and a verbal apology from the teacher in front of the class. I think that’s reasonable.

If this is how teachers are going to respond in the wake of a violent act against children, is it any wonder that I homeschool my boys? Maybe I should homeschool her, too.

#Angry #NotOk #DontMakeMeHomeschoolHerToo

———- ———- ———-

Edited to add:

I spoke with the assistant principal. She spoke with 15yo in her office and the teacher in passing. I think there’s going to be another meeting with the teacher. She advised that we make contact with the teacher to get some resolution for this, and if it doesn’t happen to our satisfaction, then we contact her again.

I’m now composing an email to the teacher.

———- ———- ———-

Edited to add:

This is the email exchange that happened between me and the staff at the school (assistant principal, principal, counselor – altho only the teacher did the talking). All names have been removed.

~~~~~

From me to teacher:

Teacher -

I am sure you are aware of why I am emailing you.

15yo called me in tears regarding the issue that happened in class today.

As she tells it: she needed help, you came to her, and then started talking about her sweatshirt and the events on Friday, told her to turn it inside out or take it off, she refused, then you told her to finish her schoolwork in the storage room, thus segregating her from the rest of the class, and after class you stood outside the classroom and continued to talk about it.

We (her father, mother, and myself) are justifiably angry and concerned about this. From 15yo’s recounting of the issue in class, we see that:

– You used your personal opinion to single out a child. If it was a general classroom discussion, and everyone was voicing their opinions about something, it would be different. But from what we understand, it was only you.
– You chose to humiliate a student in front of others.
– This looks like bullying behavior. When we, as a society, understand that bullying between students causes negative reactions, and then we, as parents, hear that a teacher has bullied a student, we have to wonder where the students are learning this behavior. I believe it’s learned from a variety of sources, but I fully believe it should never be learned from teacher to student.
– You made 15yo feel as if she was part of the events on Friday. She knows she was not, we know she was not, you know she was not. But whatever you said made her feel this way.
– You sent her out of the classroom because she was wearing a sweatshirt that is not against school policy. This is segregation based on personal opinion. This is humiliation. This is saying she’s not welcome in your classroom and she doesn’t belong.
– As a result of this, she did not feel safe in the classroom. In the wake of such horrific events as those on Friday, this should never happen.

I have spoken to Assistant Principal about this, and she stated the best way to go forward was for us to communicate with you and see if we could come to a solution that works for everyone. There is the chance that your version is different than 15yo’s, and we are open to hearing that. Right now we are expecting a verbal apology in class as that’s where the incident took place.

15yo is talking about being homeschooled because of this event. While I am willing to take that step, I would rather see this resolved in a way that is respectful to her, and for her to continue schooling at High School.

Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter, and I hope to hear from you soon.

~~~~~

From Teacher to me:

When I walked by 15yo while she and fellow students were working together on a final review project I saw that she had a black sweatshirt with a semi-automatic rifle on it. I asked her, which only her neighboring students could hear, if she realized what had happened on Friday. She did not make it clear whether she had or had not, as she usually is reticent about talking out loud in class. When she was unclear I continued to ask if she understood what had happened. I still did not receive a clear answer. I told her that I had spent the weekend hearing about and reading about what had happened and could not look at a sweatshirt that had a weapon on it that was similar to that used on Friday that was used to fire multiple bullets into five-year-olds. I asked her if she could turn it inside out or take it off. She said she couldn’t or wouldn’t. I then asked her to go into the storage room, where students go to make up tests or work quietly if they need to. I was not gentle in my words as I explained what had happened and I know I upset 15yo. I did not see her behavior as defiant but I did not understand it and she could not explain. I was not going to leave her sitting there with a sweatshirt that for my 26 years at High School has been against school policy. If such a change has been made, it has never been made public and if it was the faculty at this school would not support such a policy. If you want to make this a case about her right to wear the shirt I will not change my position.
I do regret that 15yo would have to feel the brunt of this as she seemed to be oblivious of the role she was playing and I am sorry she should have been made the center of some attention today. My wife was an elementary school principal and two of my children work at elementary schools. Glorification of guns should not be part of a school culture. I do not understand how she came to school on this day, with flags at half-mast, with this display. We can discuss all of this further.

~~~~~

My response to Teacher:

To the staff following this email -

After speaking with 15yo’s mother and father, we have come to the conclusion that 15yo will not be returning to High School. We will come in the morning to return 15yo’s books and to get a copy of her transcript.

Teacher -

Just because you do not understand the behavior of a child, does not mean the next course of action should be to remove the child from the classroom.

Assistant Principal confirmed with me and with 15yo that her sweatshirt was not against school policy. Regardless, if you thought it was against school policy, why didn’t you say anything about it prior to today? She has been wearing this sweatshirt to school for at least the last week, if not longer.

We do not understand what you mean by “the role she was playing”. 15yo was a student in your class. That was her role. Nothing more. Wearing a sweatshirt with a rifle on the front of it does not mean she was playing a role or was in any way connected to the horrible events in CT. It also doesn’t mean that there was any “glorification of guns” going on. It’s just a sweatshirt. She wasn’t drawing attention to it. She wasn’t talking about it. She wasn’t doing anything out of the ordinary for who she is.

We understand your position. You have family who work in elementary schools. I have two boys who are in elementary school grades. We get it. But in our opinion, you singled out a student and let your personal views of the events cloud your judgement of the situation. That is unacceptable.

~~~~~

Someone on Twitter mentioned speaking to the union legal counsel about this, and we might do that. We may end up in an impromptu meeting tomorrow morning when we turn in her books.

She starts at the same charter school as the boys in January. I have already spoken with our ES about this, and we are all on the same page.
Good for you.
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Old 12-18-2012, 4:20 PM
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I'm definitely not a lawyer, but I was being serious. She was penalized for an expression that I think would be within her first amendment rights as that expression does not harm anyone (it's not yelling fire in a theater). Additionally it is a conflict over a subject covered by the second amendment. Therefore my phrasing "somewhere between".

I don't think it is any different at all than having a teacher humiliate her for wearing a shirt that advertises an organization that promotes search and seizure activism, or any other civil right.

Not to excuse him and all that said, it's been a hard weekend for a lot of people and I'm pretty sure the teacher was probably pretty shaken up. If he makes it right I'd give him a pass. Most teachers are doing what they do because they love kids, certainly not for the pay. Hopefully he's an otherwise good guy that just had a little bit of his optimism about the world stolen.

I can empathize with him. It's a big eye opener when you realize your workplace is not as safe as you thought and that these things really do happen to you and I. I an feel for him. I went through the same eye opener when I was present during the SoCal Edison shootings 368 days ago.
All we asked for was an apology in front of the class, since that's where the incident took place. He refused.

Like I said in my post or on FB, I understand where he is coming from. We have two elementary aged children. His wife and kids work in elementary schools. We get it. But one doesn't get to be a bully just because one is emotionally upset about an issue.
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Old 12-18-2012, 4:31 PM
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I am so sorry for what your daughter and you have to through.
An experienced teacher should have not acted in that manner, the shirt was not profane nor offensive.

On the other hand I'm sure many of us can recount things that a teacher did to us that were not remotely fair and in many cases unethical.

My college profs made no bones about being manipulative, and demanding you bend to their ideology or face a failing grade.
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Old 12-18-2012, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyGrrl View Post
All we asked for was an apology in front of the class, since that's where the incident took place. He refused.

one doesn't get to be a bully just because one is emotionally upset about an issue.
Agreed. He let his emotions get the best of him and you're going about it all level headedly.
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Old 12-18-2012, 5:20 PM
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Sorry for supporting you?!?!?! Put your biz on the net and report my post!

I do not like what that teacher said, it was not nice, I hope he apoligizes and learns his lesson...

that better?
I know it get's frustrating as hell. Trust me I'd be first in line to tap dance on a spleen, but I can't let it get me to that point. It's how the nutjob would be able to prove a non point
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Old 12-18-2012, 5:31 PM
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I know it get's frustrating as hell. Trust me I'd be first in line to tap dance on a spleen, but I can't let it get me to that point. It's how the nutjob would be able to prove a non point
Never mind, I apologize. This forums fraying the nerves, time to take a break. Good luck, I'm sure you'll all be just fine, seems like you've got a great family.
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Old 12-18-2012, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PassTheAmmo View Post
I'm definitely not a lawyer, but I was being serious. She was penalized for an expression that I think would be within her first amendment rights as that expression does not harm anyone (it's not yelling fire in a theater). Additionally it is a conflict over a subject covered by the second amendment. Therefore my phrasing "somewhere between". :
And what if a student has a shirt that portrays someone being executed by firing squad? A gang-related image? Or other imagery/words that may be inappropriate? It is not a violation of anybody's rights for a public school to make certain types of clothing against the rules to wear. When I was in middle school, we were not allowed to wear shirts that depicted violent imagery or language, including guns, knives, and other weapons.

I'm not saying that this girl's shirt was wrong or anything. I see no problem with it. But the fact is a public school can make rules stating certain items of clothing are not permitted. And that's not a violation of anybody's rights. To a point...

If they made a rule stating nobody can wear the color blue, then there may be a problem. But if the school says you can't wear clothing depicting obscene, violent, or otherwise inappropriate imagery and language, then I don't think anybody is going to start yelling civil rights.

Apparently, her shirt was not in violation with the school's dress code. That's all that matters. If the teacher didn't like it, too bad for him. He didn't violate anybody's civil rights by unfairly chastising a student, though.
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Old 12-18-2012, 6:01 PM
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Apparently, her shirt was not in violation with the school's dress code. That's all that matters. If the teacher didn't like it, too bad for him. He didn't violate anybody's civil rights by unfairly chastising a student, though.
She was sent to a storage closet after being publicly ridiculed by the teacher before the whole class. And after followed out of the class while still being berated. If this doesn't seem to be a problem to you make sure to have you family attend his class. And with schools harping constantly about not allowing any form of bullying this should of been the last place for this to happen according to them and their given rules.
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Old 12-18-2012, 6:06 PM
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It's not fabricated. It's my wife, and one of my 3 daughters that's involved.
Please post the name and contact info for the school as well as the name of the teacher. If you're uncomfortable doing that, please send it to me as a PM.

This isn't a 2A issue. It's a free speech issue.

This is t any different than iF the girl had been wearing an MLK shirt and the teacher had spent the last 26 years opposing the Civil Rights movement.
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Old 12-18-2012, 6:22 PM
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Teachers bullying should lose their jobs
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Old 12-18-2012, 6:40 PM
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All for wearing a sweat shirt that was within policy? The teacher was highly unprofessional for reacting the way he did. He let his own prejudices and fears control his actions and took it out on a 15 yr old. Be sure and let your daughter know not only did she not do anything wrong but in life we all will come across people who are unreasonable. This teacher will be just one of many.
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Old 12-19-2012, 4:06 AM
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She was sent to a storage closet after being publicly ridiculed by the teacher before the whole class. And after followed out of the class while still being berated. If this doesn't seem to be a problem to you make sure to have you family attend his class. And with schools harping constantly about not allowing any form of bullying this should of been the last place for this to happen according to them and their given rules.
Please read more critically.

I never said what the teacher did was NOT wrong. I simply said his actions did not seem to violate the girl's CIVIL RIGHTS. Big difference.

And words like "storage closet" and "publicly ridiculed" are deliberate pejoratives meant to increase the negativity of the situation. You and I weren't there. We don't know the true severity of the situation enough to say either way. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm not one to hop on a bandwagon and start pointing my finger before thinking about a situation. It's obvious, though, that due to the recent events in CT, this teacher blew this situation with the shirt out of proportion. And that was wrong of him. If you or other people want to make a Supreme Court Civil Rights case out of it, go ahead. That's your right.

Last edited by FourT6and2; 12-19-2012 at 4:17 AM..
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Old 12-19-2012, 6:56 AM
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Please read more critically.

I never said what the teacher did was NOT wrong. I simply said his actions did not seem to violate the girl's CIVIL RIGHTS. Big difference.

And words like "storage closet" and "publicly ridiculed" are deliberate pejoratives meant to increase the negativity of the situation. You and I weren't there. We don't know the true severity of the situation enough to say either way. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm not one to hop on a bandwagon and start pointing my finger before thinking about a situation. It's obvious, though, that due to the recent events in CT, this teacher blew this situation with the shirt out of proportion. And that was wrong of him. If you or other people want to make a Supreme Court Civil Rights case out of it, go ahead. That's your right.
You are right, we weren't there. Our daughter's words were "he humiliated me in class and after class" and "he sent me out of class to the storage closet to finish my work". She told this to me and to the assistant principal.

We only wanted an apology, in front of the class. When I talked to SBR about the incident - since it was their sweatshirt she was wearing, and they are our friends - they posted the blog link on their page and this whole thing blew up.

Do I think it will go to the Supreme Court? No. Do I think that people need to be aware that bullying is happening between teachers and students in the public school setting? Yes.

*shrug*
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