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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 01-18-2013, 6:29 PM
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Cuat, first of all thank you for your service. I don't think there is any rhyme or reason for the way they are looking at delays. The only thing I can think of is they look at a case and if there is any new info on it they act accordingly, if not it goes back to the bottom of the pile. ,. If they would only communicate with the buyers it would help them resolve the problem. It's just like in Cool Hand Luke "what we have here is a failure to commukate". I am going to buy another gun soon just to see if in happens again and I will let you all know what happens from when it is DROS'ed to when i pick it up. The biggest problem was this made me feel like a criminal and I understand your feelings, so good luck to you all and hang in there.
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  #162  
Old 01-18-2013, 8:17 PM
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Originally Posted by clbshooter View Post
Cuat, first of all thank you for your service. I don't think there is any rhyme or reason for the way they are looking at delays. The only thing I can think of is they look at a case and if there is any new info on it they act accordingly, if not it goes back to the bottom of the pile. ,. If they would only communicate with the buyers it would help them resolve the problem. It's just like in Cool Hand Luke "what we have here is a failure to commukate". I am going to buy another gun soon just to see if in happens again and I will let you all know what happens from when it is DROS'ed to when i pick it up. The biggest problem was this made me feel like a criminal and I understand your feelings, so good luck to you all and hang in there.
Thank you for positive feedback. I have contacted them in every way possible asking for guidance on how to prevent this in the future. I have sent emails to senators, congressmen, the attorney general and the bureau of firearms with no response. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst!

Last edited by cuat_420; 01-19-2013 at 7:32 AM.. Reason: posted info in wrong thread
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  #163  
Old 01-18-2013, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
They aren't going to second-guess the data (or lack thereof) on the screen. That is not their job. For an arrest in 1995 I am actually NOT surprised you are running into this problem. The CalDOJ databases are notoriously incomplete.
True. When I moved back to CA and registered a firearm I bought out of state I got a letter from CA saying I was unable to possess a firearm because I was a felon. 100% wrong. Slap in the face. WTF !!! I was transitioning from the military. After a long letter and Faxing my ID's I received another letter weeks later saying " thanks for registering"
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  #164  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:02 PM
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Cuat I don't understand what you are saying about my post. I never said anything that would bring about your accusations. Go look at post #15 and you will see that I am trying to figure this out along with everyone else. I don't give a rats a** what your user name is as I suspect you feel the same about mine, again not me. I also do not want or need any explanation from you about anything. I have been contributing information on this from the beginning trying to help with any info that I get so no crapping on my end. I will leave you with 2 things-1) read the entire post a few times and see who is making what comments. 2) Yes I know what I can do and I will keep doing it to the best of my ability. In summation you are way off base with what you are saying. The ONLY thing I was trying to get across to you is that you are not alone this is happening to a lot of good people here, just bare it out and it will resolve itself in time. I would recommend that you contact Mr. Combs, he is the man that started this thread, if you have not done so as he can help. Your situation may resolve itself before any action is taken but we need to have a record of all the un-necessary delays if it goes to court.
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  #165  
Old 01-19-2013, 7:27 AM
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Originally Posted by clbshooter View Post
Cuat I don't understand what you are saying about my post. I never said anything that would bring about your accusations. Go look at post #15 and you will see that I am trying to figure this out along with everyone else. I don't give a rats a** what your user name is as I suspect you feel the same about mine, again not me. I also do not want or need any explanation from you about anything. I have been contributing information on this from the beginning trying to help with any info that I get so no crapping on my end. I will leave you with 2 things-1) read the entire post a few times and see who is making what comments. 2) Yes I know what I can do and I will keep doing it to the best of my ability. In summation you are way off base with what you are saying. The ONLY thing I was trying to get across to you is that you are not alone this is happening to a lot of good people here, just bare it out and it will resolve itself in time. I would recommend that you contact Mr. Combs, he is the man that started this thread, if you have not done so as he can help. Your situation may resolve itself before any action is taken but we need to have a record of all the un-necessary delays if it goes to court.
clbshooter,

None of that post past the first sentence was intended for you...I started my rant in regards to others comments in a different thread (bad idea), which I see now got taken the wrong way! You have absolutely been nothing but helpful...so please delete the remainder of that post from your memory...I deleted it from the thread!!

Last edited by cuat_420; 01-19-2013 at 7:34 AM..
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  #166  
Old 01-19-2013, 7:30 AM
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I recently was told the the DOJ had placed my purchase on hold. I called and called.. finally reaching someone who stated it is a case from 5/1999 that is incomplete or no disposition. This is a huge burden.. and now all I can do is wait? I have no idea what the charge even was, and its 14 years ago. What if the agency takes there time to get back to DOJ?

If I was told where the issue originated I could at least follow up!

I have my CCW interview with Placer in 2 weeks and I can have this issue causing problems.

Brandon can you help on this one?

Anyone help?
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  #167  
Old 01-19-2013, 8:06 AM
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I recently was told the the DOJ had placed my purchase on hold. I called and called.. finally reaching someone who stated it is a case from 5/1999 that is incomplete or no disposition. This is a huge burden.. and now all I can do is wait? I have no idea what the charge even was, and its 14 years ago. What if the agency takes there time to get back to DOJ?

If I was told where the issue originated I could at least follow up!

I have my CCW interview with Placer in 2 weeks and I can have this issue causing problems.

Brandon can you help on this one?

Anyone help?

Where did you live in 5/1999? Depending on who you talk to and where it is, you may be able to get some information over the phone. They told me when I called about mine that there was an arrest for assault in 1995 in Tennessee. Fortunately for me, I knew what it was...unfortunately, they had no record of it in the county clerks office or district courts since it was dismissed before being tried. I finally was able to contact the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, who found the arrest warrant, and that had the disposition noted on it. Now the next problem...I got copies and provided them to the CA DOJ, but I cannot confirm that they will accept the documents (certified and notarized) from the member, as I have heard it has to come from the government agency who holds the records. If it was in CA, you may be a lot better off, as they have more access to CA records than other states. Keep us posted, and let us know how it goes!

Oh yeah, the other possibility is a common name that may have been mistaken?
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  #168  
Old 01-19-2013, 8:10 AM
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Originally Posted by pitbull30 View Post
True. When I moved back to CA and registered a firearm I bought out of state I got a letter from CA saying I was unable to possess a firearm because I was a felon. 100% wrong. Slap in the face. WTF !!! I was transitioning from the military. After a long letter and Faxing my ID's I received another letter weeks later saying " thanks for registering"
Gotta love CA!! I was telling my FFL (who is a friend of mine) that in Tennessee, you tell me you have a gun for sale for $500, I hand you $500, you hand me the gun...MAYBE a bill of sale. Even in stores there is no DROS or wait period for long guns, only hand guns.
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  #169  
Old 01-20-2013, 11:26 PM
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I sure hope I dont get a delay,im due to pick up 2 long rifles sunday,and 2 more on monday.Being as that people are being delayed,I cant help but think I will be in that boat as well.

I already own 2 firearms,but as others have said,they are looking everyone over with a fine tooth comb,especially after what has happened back east.I know they are backed up,but I think I will be one of the lucky ones that has to jump thru several hoops in order get my firearms.

Just watch,the only trouble ive ever had was a misd. B/A back in 98,as a 16yo juvenile,that was sealed,while it didnt prevent me from owning firearms before,I bet you they decide and bring that up.Just wait for my post either on sunday,or monday in regards to this lol.
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  #170  
Old 01-21-2013, 4:03 PM
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I'm on day 22, still no reason or explanation. Purchased a rifle in July with no problems, answered the exact same questions in that case. There has got to be some other "new" process that has been instituted. Honestly, had my FFL shared the delay possibility I would have waited until the dust cleared.
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  #171  
Old 01-22-2013, 5:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PlayHard View Post
I've been delayed since Oct. 22, 2012. I will have my certified copy of the court order to change disposition on Monday. I am going to fax it, mail it with a form and do a live scan on Friday, if I haven't heard anything.

I am very surprised some attorneys aren't weighing in on how to deal with the DOJ properly. Or those that have been on delay, sent in some info and got an approval. Please, please, please . . . someone provide some clear way to deal with the DOJ.

- PH (89th day of DROS )
You're basically doing what attorneys advice clients to do. Get a clerk-certified copy of the disposition, the CDOJ dispute form, mail and fax them back and harass them via phone. If you need to pull a rap sheet first, you livescan, and mail in the request for the rap sheet, return the dispute form with your records and wait.

Legally attacking a bureaucracy is difficult, as you generally have to first exhaust all your administrative remedies, get nowhere, and then proceed with legal action. I can tell, just from reading, that probably 95% of the posters here have not exhausted their admin. remedies.

Like it or not, if you try to go to court before doing the above, you're going to waste time and money and get nowhere.

Like I've said before, I walk people through this process all the time. I say "walk", because it's not really fair for me to bill them $200/hour plus travel time and correspondence costs to deal with CalDOJ for them. I could do that, and I'd be driving a nicer car or living in a somewhat bigger house, but I have 'oaklander' disease. ;-)
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  #172  
Old 01-22-2013, 11:34 PM
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Anyone bought a firearm in the last 11-15 days and had it delayed? I did a PPT last week and this thread has me a little worried although my record is clean.
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  #173  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
Anyone bought a firearm in the last 11-15 days and had it delayed? I did a PPT last week and this thread has me a little worried although my record is clean.
I just DROSed a saiga 12, I have been preparing myself for a delay. I'll post back when I find out. I hope it goes through ok.

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  #174  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:42 AM
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I just DROSed a saiga 12 online, I have been preparing myself for a delay. I'll post back when I find out. I hope it goes through ok.
I did a DROS this last Friday, when did you do yours?
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  #175  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
You're basically doing what attorneys advice clients to do. Get a clerk-certified copy of the disposition, the CDOJ dispute form, mail and fax them back and harass them via phone. If you need to pull a rap sheet first, you livescan, and mail in the request for the rap sheet, return the dispute form with your records and wait.

Legally attacking a bureaucracy is difficult, as you generally have to first exhaust all your administrative remedies, get nowhere, and then proceed with legal action. I can tell, just from reading, that probably 95% of the posters here have not exhausted their admin. remedies.

Like it or not, if you try to go to court before doing the above, you're going to waste time and money and get nowhere.

Like I've said before, I walk people through this process all the time. I say "walk", because it's not really fair for me to bill them $200/hour plus travel time and correspondence costs to deal with CalDOJ for them. I could do that, and I'd be driving a nicer car or living in a somewhat bigger house, but I have 'oaklander' disease. ;-)
Thank you for weighing in and the advice. As of today, the county clerk is pulling my file from archives. Somehow, my attorney also got the county clerk to agree in faxing a certified copy to the DOJ for me. The clerk states she's done this before and I should expect the DOJ to update records within 3-5 days. My attorney will be bringing me my certified copy, to which I will mail with form 8706. I will wait, yet one more time, and if no change with the DOJ, I will do a Live Scan and file the appropriate paperwork to dispute my record. I am fighting for my legal rights, as a non-prohibited person, to possess and purchase firearms. I have already waited 94 days, so what's a few more weeks (If I have exhausted all methods). Once my DROS is approved, I will let everyone know and which method worked to enable the DROS approval.

Thanks all.
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  #176  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
I did a DROS this last Friday, when did you do yours?
I did it Monday the 21st, I should have waited till Tuesday because I think they were off for the holiday.

On a side note, I don't know why my predictive text put online after the saiga 12, I obviously didn't fill out the DROS paper work online lol
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  #177  
Old 01-23-2013, 3:57 PM
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I am going on almost 30 days for one I put in on Dec.28. It's on delay. Put another in on then 14th and it cleared. Don't understand the system.
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  #178  
Old 01-23-2013, 5:55 PM
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I picked up my XD on 1/3/13,no problems.Had already filled out the DROS for a shotgun I ordered,it came in,put the 3rd on it,and waited......went in today-nope in delay.

Judging by what I've read here,I'd say its back logged.
Fantastic.........
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  #179  
Old 01-24-2013, 8:56 AM
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I picked up my XD on 1/3/13,no problems.Had already filled out the DROS for a shotgun I ordered,it came in,put the 3rd on it,and waited......went in today-nope in delay.

Judging by what I've read here,I'd say its back logged.
Fantastic.........
I sure hope that doesn't happen to me. Planning on taking it out Tuesday. One of my friends did pickup a handgun last week, don't think he was delayed.
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  #180  
Old 01-25-2013, 7:28 PM
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I dros'd a h&k uspc 40 on 1/10, and picked it up 1/18, no issues, no drama.
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  #181  
Old 01-25-2013, 8:25 PM
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I dros'd a h&k uspc 40 on 1/10, and picked it up 1/18, no issues, no drama.
huh? An 8 day wait? 1/10 to 1/18? wtf?
I had a gun in pawn and did the dros. Got a call saying the DOJ called the pawnbroker instructing him not to release the weapon. wierd... I never had a problem before. I called the DOJ. Seems there is backlog of dros'es. They were only answering calls between 2 and 4 because over 1200 guns were drosed in Dec. So I waited. Got a call from the shop that I could pick up my gun 2 days later. Calm down guys...
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  #182  
Old 01-25-2013, 9:05 PM
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I just hope mine doesn't get delayed. Supposed to pick it up Monday and I want to go to the range Tuesday since I'm free that day. I'm not too worried about it though since my record is almost spotless (couple minor tickets in the past). In any case I think I would have gotten a call by now if there was a holdup.
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  #183  
Old 01-28-2013, 1:42 PM
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Just spoke to Vicky who is the one handling my case. All she can say is "you can be delayed because of your background or the firearm" "a lawyer does you know good" "it can take a day or 5 years but hopefully not 5 years" and my 2nd amendment rights are suspended until they can clear up whatever it is without telling me, or getting help from anyone. I cannot figure it out at all? Any ideas?
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  #184  
Old 01-28-2013, 1:48 PM
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huh? An 8 day wait? 1/10 to 1/18? wtf?
I had a gun in pawn and did the dros. Got a call saying the DOJ called the pawnbroker instructing him not to release the weapon. wierd... I never had a problem before. I called the DOJ. Seems there is backlog of dros'es. They were only answering calls between 2 and 4 because over 1200 guns were drosed in Dec. So I waited. Got a call from the shop that I could pick up my gun 2 days later. Calm down guys...
typo brain fart ... 1/8 to 1/18 (actually 1/7 at closing, so they pushed a day).

sorry about the confusion
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  #185  
Old 01-28-2013, 2:26 PM
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Day 29 for me, spoke to BOF today, basically the same story, "if you haven't heard back from your dealer by Feb 11 call us back and you should be able to speak to someone"
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  #186  
Old 01-28-2013, 3:51 PM
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Add me to the delayed list

Tried calling them a little while ago but I guess they had just closed. Made me look like a criminal when the guy at the shop had to take my lower away and give me a number to call to find out why it's delayed. He did say it wasn't a denial (no reason it would be, I'm not a prohibited person) and that this seems to be randomly happening to people right now.

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Originally Posted by gigglemonkee View Post
Just spoke to Vicky who is the one handling my case. All she can say is "you can be delayed because of your background or the firearm" "a lawyer does you know good" "it can take a day or 5 years but hopefully not 5 years" and my 2nd amendment rights are suspended until they can clear up whatever it is without telling me, or getting help from anyone. I cannot figure it out at all? Any ideas?
Check the first post, there's a link to report delays/denials that DOJ will not give you a reason for.
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Last edited by JDay; 01-28-2013 at 3:54 PM..
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  #187  
Old 01-28-2013, 6:28 PM
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Check the first post, there's a link to report delays/denials that DOJ will not give you a reason for.
Just submitted the form. Glad I don't have to go to work or anything or this could really mess with a career. Apparently only 14 people in the world handles all the hundreds of thousand reviews jn ca
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  #188  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:16 AM
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What a crapy feeling! Day 30 not a criminal, not a bad guy, have never had a problem with DROSing a rifle. even did a presonal Firearms check before I started buying guns in 2011 which said you can leagally own,posses,purches firearms. Then my FFL gives me a call your delayed. The worst thing is you cant even get an explanation. You would think if someone is gonna infringe on your 2A they would tell you why. I've called they say 2 day to 2 year waits. This is nuts. Everybody just says wait it out. This isn't right!
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  #189  
Old 01-29-2013, 6:32 AM
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What a crapy feeling! Day 30 not a criminal, not a bad guy, have never had a problem with DROSing a rifle. even did a presonal Firearms check before I started buying guns in 2011 which said you can leagally own,posses,purches firearms. Then my FFL gives me a call your delayed. The worst thing is you cant even get an explanation. You would think if someone is gonna infringe on your 2A they would tell you why. I've called they say 2 day to 2 year waits. This is nuts. Everybody just says wait it out. This isn't right!
I'm in the same boat.... on Day 31 of a delay and the DROS department still won't/can't tell me why I am delayed, nor can they tell me IF they've even looked at my paperwork, nor will they even guesstimate when they MIGHT get to my paperwork... this has to be an abuse of my rights, as I am being denied exercising my 2a rights with absolutely no recourse other than wait and see what happens with absolutely no time limit for for this process to happen... ie. the CA DOJ can indefinitely deny me my 2a rights for as long as they like even if they have no proof of me being a prohibited person, basically the CA DOJ is taking the position that we are presumed guilty until proven innocent. This is wrong.

Last edited by Dustyzz; 01-29-2013 at 8:26 AM..
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  #190  
Old 01-29-2013, 6:43 AM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
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Originally Posted by randian View Post
Somebody in the previous thread said that DOJ is asking for originals of documentation on offenses they've already considered and cleared. Is DOJ mad? Originals are precious. From what I see here on these forums, originals can be impossible to recreate should they be lost, especially for old offenses. They should not be subjected to unnecessary risk of loss through postal error, DOJ error, or any other kind of mishap. Copies should be sufficient. If they want the originals, they should send somebody out to inspect them in person.
Shouldn't really be relevant either. You were either guilty or innocent. They should only need the paper (a copy at that) if they denied someone so they could justify it.

Last edited by sl0re10; 01-29-2013 at 7:05 AM..
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  #191  
Old 01-29-2013, 6:51 AM
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On what day of your 10-day wait are you getting the calls from the FFL about being delayed?
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Old 01-29-2013, 6:58 AM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
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If they're actually blocking for arrests w/o convictions I'd like to see that challenged. WTF
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Old 01-29-2013, 7:52 AM
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Originally Posted by FTW! View Post
On what day of your 10-day wait are you getting the calls from the FFL about being delayed?
What call? I went to pickup my lower and was told it was delayed. The FFL said they've been so busy they forgot to call.
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Old 01-29-2013, 8:20 AM
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All I get when I call DOJ BOF is a recording. Does anyone have a number that gets through? The numbers I have are 916-227-3752 and 916-227-7527.
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Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
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  #195  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:08 AM
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Eddy's Shooting Sports Eddy's Shooting Sports is offline
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This is starting to get bad. I only had a couple delays during the peak a few weeks ago, but now I have three active delays, one denial for a customer I know is gtg, who also has another DROS pending and here's the icing on the cake. Last week I got a "release after denial", before I ever received the denial. The guy I talked to at DOJ told me he had only seen four release after denial in seven years!




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  #196  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:14 AM
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Does anyone know if the Live Scan service record review process will display history from states other than California? My delay is due to an arrest in 1995 in Tennessee, and I have all of the court docs, but I don't know if I can submit them through California and have it cleared for the CA DOJ in order to get my gun!
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDay View Post
All I get when I call DOJ BOF is a recording. Does anyone have a number that gets through? The numbers I have are 916-227-3752 and 916-227-7527.
Those are the only numbers available. If you are getting the message, then they are all on the phone (what a surprise). I just hang up and immediately call back as soon as I hear the machine...unfortunately it has taken me upwards of 30 minutes to actually get someone to answer! Good Luck!
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  #198  
Old 01-29-2013, 1:45 PM
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After all my tries and calling everyday to annoy them I get a call today I was cleared and went and got my cz75b. Longest 40 days of my life
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  #199  
Old 01-29-2013, 3:08 PM
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Good for you! I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
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Old 01-29-2013, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustyzz View Post
I'm in the same boat.... on Day 31 of a delay and the DROS department still won't/can't tell me why I am delayed, nor can they tell me IF they've even looked at my paperwork, nor will they even guesstimate when they MIGHT get to my paperwork... this has to be an abuse of my rights, as I am being denied exercising my 2a rights with absolutely no recourse other than wait and see what happens with absolutely no time limit for for this process to happen... ie. the CA DOJ can indefinitely deny me my 2a rights for as long as they like even if they have no proof of me being a prohibited person, basically the CA DOJ is taking the position that we are presumed guilty until proven innocent. This is wrong.
See the link in the first post. I will be filling that form out myself in the near future if I cannot get through to DOJ BOF or they don't call me back/give me a reason for my delay. I've been calling them all day and they aren't answering the phone.
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