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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-07-2012, 11:58 AM
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Default GUIDELINES TO WHAT TOPICS DO *NOT* GO INTO THE 2A FORUM

1) This is a California forum.
Head Janitor says, in the current climate of panic, new laws from out of state are OK.

We now have one thread each for New York, Massachusetts, and Vermont.

Please keep all the out of state discussion in ONE THREAD per state ONLY.

// Librarian 1/17/13
Things in other states cannot affect California directly, nor can can we in California do much about things in other states. 'National movements' need participants in California before they go here.

New York and Connecticut laws or proposals or actual bills? Off Topic, please.

Chicago Aldermen or Illinois legislature? Off Topic, please.

Kentucky Sheriff, Wyoming Governor? Off Topic, please.

. . . FEDERAL behaviors, OTOH, affect everybody, including California.

. . . Federal LAWSUITS about these out of state behaviors at least have the potential to redefine the law to affect Californians. Since they have that potential, many Federal Circuit Court of Appeals cases, and some lower Federal District Court cases, DO belong in 2A

Gun control stories for other countries also go to Off Topic. Australia, England, wherever - no effect on California.
2) Things that don't exist yet leave us nothing to talk about. No one can predict the future.
Executive orders? Let's see the text before posting here - otherwise, Off Topic, please

New Federal or California gun bill announced? There are formalities for bills; actual bill text must be submitted - that's 2A, usually. Otherwise, Off Topic, please.
3) Incidents of gun usage ALWAYS go to Off Topic
Yes, terrible incidents influence public opinion; public officials make public statements; sometimes bills or regulations are forthcoming.

It's the bills or regulations that are 2A. Victims, weapons used, all the newspaper bloviating, all the inaccuracies revealed, all the investigations and results - that all goes to Off Topic.

That includes stories of appropriate self-defense - Off Topic, please.
4) Private companies and individuals are not bound by the Second Amendment; stories of their behaviors go to Off Topic.
Google is doing something dumb? Off Topic.

Bank of America is mistreating gun businesses? Off Topic.

Sportsman's Guide won't sell legal products into CA? Off Topic.

Piers Morgan is babbling? Off Topic.

David Gregory shows the inequality of our legal system? Off Topic.


Open thread ...
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

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Last edited by Librarian; 01-17-2013 at 4:20 PM..
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2013, 9:18 PM
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Default

bump

Ask - you know you want to.
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

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  #3  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:47 PM
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I propose that once an out of state law is passed the discussion regarding the legal challenge occur here, especially if it is filed or going to be filed in federal court.

I agree with keeping the "what if" conversations to a minimum, but it looks likely that some state or two is going to push their laws too far with the end result being a trip to SCOTUS. That certainly *can* affect us here.

Regards,


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  #4  
Old 01-15-2013, 8:10 AM
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Agreed: any (non CA) case that potentially deepens circuit splits should be open to discussion.
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  #5  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:22 AM
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I thought that's what
Quote:
. . . Federal LAWSUITS about these out of state behaviors at least have the potential to redefine the law to affect Californians.
meant, but to be more explicit, modified to
Quote:
. . . Federal LAWSUITS about these out of state behaviors at least have the potential to redefine the law to affect Californians. Since they have that potential, many Federal Circuit Court of Appeals cases, and some lower Federal District Court cases, DO belong in 2A
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #6  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:22 AM
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How about a non-CA 2A sub-forum? I really try to avoid OT most of the time, but I do want to follow out of state items that have relevance 2A. Include the fact that OT threads get moved down several pages within hours can make following certain threads difficult at best.

I'm much more interested in the fight of NY, IL, MD etc. than I am about Onion Rings.

ETA: It's pretty clear 2013 is going to be a busy 2A year across the country and the threads will just keep coming.
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  #7  
Old 01-15-2013, 6:36 PM
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I was about to suggest the same as tba02. I think the point of eliminating them from this thread makes sense, so we can sort through the legit issues related to CA... but moving them to the OT forum will have the same problem there for the issues we do want to find.
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2013, 8:16 PM
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Yes a non-ca 2a sub forum makes sense, there appears to be enough demand, and it would reduce the need for you to boot or close as many threads.
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2013, 3:04 AM
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So it sounds like everything under the sun goes into OT... just curious for some clarification on what is appropriate for the General forum?

Thanks!
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:05 AM
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Usage note: the Head Janitor has made a Special Dispensation for New York's new law.

One thread only, please - this is it: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=679350
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 01-16-2013 at 10:08 AM..
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootle View Post
So it sounds like everything under the sun goes into OT... just curious for some clarification on what is appropriate for the General forum?

Thanks!
Much broader - on 2 counts.

First, it's lower traffic, so important things don't get shoved to the second page very quickly.

Second, there's a bunch of specialized forums to cover specifics of hand guns, long guns, rimfire, shotguns, C&R.

So things that are gun related, but generally not politics or incidents of use or legal issues are usually there. Allowing for our current state of alarm, what's there now (haven't looked this morning!) is about the norm.
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Calguns Wiki, Magazine Qs, Knife laws

Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #12  
Old 01-17-2013, 4:19 PM
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Bump for update.
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #13  
Old 01-17-2013, 9:14 PM
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Respectfully,

The forum is "2nd Amend. Related Legal & Political Discussion"

2A applies to all states, not just California.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2013, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitbarrel View Post
Respectfully,

The forum is "2nd Amend. Related Legal & Political Discussion"

2A applies to all states, not just California.
With returned respect, I reiterate that this is a California based forum, and the laws of other states should be a secondary consideration - we have ample problems of our own, and despite years of denial, in susceptible states California law has metastasized.

That is not to say things in other states should be ignored; but look at the NY, MA and VT threads that exist now. They're falling off the front page. The specific behaviors of out of state politicians are no doubt part of a wider movement - but the movement is being applied at the individual state level; the details in other places really do not matter to California.
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Calguns Wiki, Magazine Qs, Knife laws

Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #15  
Old 01-30-2013, 4:20 PM
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Shouldn't incidents of gun usage, discussion of potential gun laws, and just about anything gun related go into "General Gun Discussion"?

Shouldn't only off topic (non-gun-related) stuff go into "Off Topic"?

The way these new (relativity to me) rules are working out, most gun related discussion is ending up in Off Topic, which is a place I usually try to avoid like the plague. Off Topic is replete with vile and vicious threads which are counter to a sense of community. I'd like to go somewhere and discuss my similar interests (guns, gun laws, and gun related issues) without having to listen to the insanity that thrives in OT.

Why not direct people to General Gun Discussion, and when mods move threads, move them to GGD?
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  #16  
Old 02-01-2013, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Shouldn't incidents of gun usage, discussion of potential gun laws, and just about anything gun related go into "General Gun Discussion"?

Shouldn't only off topic (non-gun-related) stuff go into "Off Topic"?

The way these new (relativity to me) rules are working out, most gun related discussion is ending up in Off Topic, which is a place I usually try to avoid like the plague. Off Topic is replete with vile and vicious threads which are counter to a sense of community. I'd like to go somewhere and discuss my similar interests (guns, gun laws, and gun related issues) without having to listen to the insanity that thrives in OT.

Why not direct people to General Gun Discussion, and when mods move threads, move them to GGD?
I second this even though I've been posting them in OT.....

The current "official" description of OT from the page when you're starting a new thread (like the one I just posted about Stallone coming out for a new federal AWB): "The 'off topic' discussion lounge Discuss non firearm related topics with other members." (underlining added)

Or CGN needs to change that description of OT.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2013, 2:54 AM
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I love how peirce morgan is such a d bag he had to be mentioned by name lol Should this thread be made a sticky? or into the thread post rules? I also have a sugestion for a new thread form how about things relating to the constatution thread so not particualry 2a issue but a constatution issue and it doesnt have to be just for calie since thats a federal law.
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  #18  
Old 05-30-2013, 7:20 PM
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@Librarian - thanks once again.... Now if only folks would follow your advice.

.
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  #19  
Old 05-30-2013, 9:49 PM
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Where would one start a thread to organize a carpool to Sacramento?
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