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  #1  
Old 05-06-2012, 8:48 PM
phaseshift phaseshift is offline
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Default AR 15 Optics

I'm thinking of building an AR and I was wondering what you guys would recommend on some optics that can be configured for CQB and also for targets that are 100-200 yards away.
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Old 05-06-2012, 8:49 PM
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Eotech XPS2-0 or EXPS2-0. Have it, love it.
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Old 05-06-2012, 8:53 PM
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A good Quality 1-4x scope is the ticket for an AR15 in most situations. 1x with an illuminated reticle up close and 4x for hitting steel plates out to 400yds.
What is your budget for optics?
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Old 05-06-2012, 9:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
A good Quality 1-4x scope is the ticket for an AR15 in most situations. 1x with an illuminated reticle up close and 4x for hitting steel plates out to 400yds.
What is your budget for optics?
UNDER 1k
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Old 05-06-2012, 9:18 PM
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I absolutely love my M-223 1-4x. it has the BDC 600 Reticle that ranges 55grain ammo out to 600 yards. Nikon also has the Spot-On calculator on their website which allows you to choose any known manufacturer or ammunition and see where it ranges.

I like it so far at 1x for close stuff, the 4x is great for shooting targets at 100 yards for me, mostly soda cans so far. wish it had some illumination but I hate batteries and until I can afford an ACOG or TR24 the nikon will be great for me. I also got it for $250 with a free mount!
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
A good Quality 1-4x scope is the ticket for an AR15 in most situations. 1x with an illuminated reticle up close and 4x for hitting steel plates out to 400yds.
There are endless selections but here are some I like, especially the Vortex Viper PST MRAD.

Under $900-700
http://www.opticsplanet.net/burris-1...iflescope.html

Under $500
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...cq-moa-reticle

Under $400
http://www.burrisoptics.com/mtac1.html
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:02 PM
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what about

http://www.riflegear.com/p-1064-eote...-w-g23fts.aspx

?
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  #8  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:53 PM
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You have a ton of options for under 1k... do as much hands on research as you can so you can find whats right for you.

I think the mid to higher end 1-4x type scopes are some of the best optics you can buy for the AR platform. Its extremely versatile in terms of application. From CQB type shooting to longer range shooting, it works very well.

I much rather have a $935 1-4x scope than an Eotech with magnifier combo for the same price... with the type of shooting you described, that would be my pick.

If you really like red dots, they also make 1-4x type scopes that have red dot reticles. One of my favorite is the Schmidt & Bender Short Dot, but its way out of my price range. There are other options out there, but my next 1-4x optic will be a RDS style scope.

Here is a good place to start...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/42...ad.html&page=1
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Old 05-07-2012, 9:14 AM
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seems like maybe the burris is the way to go then, is the burris the best under 1k?
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  #10  
Old 05-07-2012, 9:22 AM
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If your vision is, or is corrected to, 20/20, 200 yards is NOT that far away. I'd stick with an Aimpoint Pro for an affordable, entry-level optic at those ranges.

EOTech's and Trijicon Reflex series are also fine optics - I've owned those as well. My preference runs Aimpoint, however.
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2012, 9:27 AM
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If I were going Burris, I'd get the MTAC over the XTR since the glass quality is similar so you'll end up pocketing the difference.

And having looked through the Vortex PST 1-4X, I had a hard time seeing the reticle in bright daylight (i.e. it washed out). The Burris MTAC washes out too but the reticle is large so you can still easily see it.

I'm also running the EOTech EXPS 3-4 with Lucid 2-5x magnifier and think it's a very versatile setup. Take note that since the magnifier is smaller than a 1-4x, it won't be as bright and the eyebox will be smaller. I'd only recommend that setup if you already have an EOTech.

Also, if you're operating in 300Y or closer, another good candidate is the Trijicon TR24. Bright daylight reticle, very fast at 1X, and durable enough for daily use. It does not have a BDC though so tricky to shoot past 300Y.
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2012, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
If I were going Burris, I'd get the MTAC over the XTR since the glass quality is similar so you'll end up pocketing the difference.

And having looked through the Vortex PST 1-4X, I had a hard time seeing the reticle in bright daylight (i.e. it washed out). The Burris MTAC washes out too but the reticle is large so you can still easily see it.

I'm also running the EOTech EXPS 3-4 with Lucid 2-5x magnifier and think it's a very versatile setup. Take note that since the magnifier is smaller than a 1-4x, it won't be as bright and the eyebox will be smaller. I'd only recommend that setup if you already have an EOTech.

Also, if you're operating in 300Y or closer, another good candidate is the Trijicon TR24. Bright daylight reticle, very fast at 1X, and durable enough for daily use. It does not have a BDC though so tricky to shoot past 300Y.

What would be the main difference between the XTR and the MTAC? Also is getting the fast fire worth it?
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2012, 10:26 AM
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No, I don't think the FF is worth the cost. The biggest difference between the XTR and MTAC is the reticle. The XTR's reticle goes out to 1000 yards while the MTAC's stops at 600 yards.
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  #14  
Old 05-07-2012, 11:30 AM
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In order to hit smaller targets at 200 yards look into 1-3 MOA dots. If you have money to spend Eotechs and Aimpoints are the way to go. If your on a budget our PA Micro Dots, Bushnells and some others are a good choice. Be sure to cowtness your weapon.

Hope this helps

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  #15  
Old 05-07-2012, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaseshift View Post
seems like maybe the burris is the way to go then, is the burris the best under 1k?
Best under 1k... only you can make that decision. Reticle preferences are personal choices, and only you can say whats best for you.

There are other options... Trijicon 1-4, GRSC CRS 1-6x, Leupold VX6 1-6x, SWFA SS 1-4x, Leathwood CMR, Muller Speed Shot...

Personally I prefer the 1-4x Viper PST over the burris because I like the reticle more. I didn't really want a BDC reticle in the Burris on a 1-4x, but that's a personal choice. The reticle in my 1-4x fits my shooting style more than something with a BDC... I know what my hold over and drops are, I know how much correct to dial in... I can be more accurate without a BDC reticle.
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  #16  
Old 05-07-2012, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
No, I don't think the FF is worth the cost. The biggest difference between the XTR and MTAC is the reticle. The XTR's reticle goes out to 1000 yards while the MTAC's stops at 600 yards.
I agree, I would also pass on the fast fire. With a 1x scope, and depending on the reticle, its almost like having two optics that do the same thing.

If you were to use a fixed magnification optic like an ACOG or a higher power variable scope without a 1x settings, then its eaiser to justify the fast fire.

The Burris XTR is nice, but in its price range, there are a lot of other optics I would pick over that one.
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Old 05-07-2012, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
I agree, I would also pass on the fast fire. With a 1x scope, and depending on the reticle, its almost like having two optics that do the same thing.

If you were to use a fixed magnification optic like an ACOG or a higher power variable scope without a 1x settings, then its eaiser to justify the fast fire.

The Burris XTR is nice, but in its price range, there are a lot of other optics I would pick over that one.

what are some other optics you would pick over the burris xtr?
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  #18  
Old 05-07-2012, 4:27 PM
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As I said above, personal preference plays a big role here... but if I was in the market for a sub 1k low to mid power scope....

Vortex Viper PST 1-4x (Which I use now)
Trijicon 1-4x TR24
Leupold VX6 1-6x

If I wanted to really save some money... Leathwood CMR, Muller Speed Shot, Burris MTAC

It was a hard choice for me between the Vortex and the Trijicon... I picked the Vortex because I already have a TA31F ACOG, and a Micro Red Dot.... It was my application and shooting style choice for me which helped me decide... I use the Vortex as my target shooting / plinking scope, and I use the ACOG/Microdot combo as my run and gun combat optic.

You should really look at this thread, its got a crap load of optic reviews. Should get you off to a good start.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/42...ad.html&page=1
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  #19  
Old 05-07-2012, 4:40 PM
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I know your original pick was an Eotech, but being just a red dot, you are going to have to get used to holding over for correction... IF this is your style optic, its pretty hard to not consider the TR24. Optical clarity and the variable zoom quickly push my over to this scope, along with the Fiber optic and tritium illumination.

Here is a review I found on the Trijicon...
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=36641

I just wish it had a BDC or even MOA hash marks to help with holdover at longer distances. It is however very easy and usable like a red lot for CQB type work. Trijicon scopes have some advantages the other manufactures just don't offer.
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2012, 4:56 PM
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There are so many options for you at under 1k. I would get a Vortex Viper PST 1-4 with an American Defense QD mount and a good BUIS like the KAC Micro 200-600 flip-up all for under 1k




This is about the exact setup I'd like to get if I had a grand to drop on optics.
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Old 05-07-2012, 4:57 PM
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thanks for that, I was looking at the TR24 too what is your opinion on the SWFA SS 1-4x?
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  #22  
Old 05-07-2012, 6:33 PM
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At your specified distances, Aimpoint or similar. Irons if you still have good eyesight isn't a bad option either.

If you are looking to reach out a little further than I'd say Burris MTAC or SWFA SS 1-6x (I believe they have a Facebook pre-order coupon code for $200 off).
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Old 05-07-2012, 8:35 PM
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IMO, for the money I'd stick with a Vortex or Nikon over the Super Sniper series. Personal opinion and flame suit on.
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Old 05-07-2012, 8:45 PM
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Arggghh I can't decide eotech/aimpoint with 3x magnifier or 1-4x scope!? If ***** hit the fan which is better? I'm talking zombie apocalypse, china invading us, aliens coming down kinda *****
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Old 05-07-2012, 9:28 PM
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Well, of Poo hit the fan, you don't need batteries in a scope. 1-4 would be and is my choice.
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Old 05-07-2012, 9:34 PM
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Default ACOG

I'd have to recommend an ACOG. They are built to last you a lifetime and work well in CQB and are perfect for anything out to 600yds. They can be pricey but IMHO they can't be beat. I got an ACOG TA31RCO-M4 not to long ago and don't know if I could ever use anything else now.

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Old 05-07-2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaseshift View Post
Arggghh I can't decide eotech/aimpoint with 3x magnifier or 1-4x scope!? If ***** hit the fan which is better? I'm talking zombie apocalypse, china invading us, aliens coming down kinda *****
hahaha... welcome to my world... I find shopping for optics harder than trying to figure out which rifle to buy.

REALISTICALLY - What is the bulk of your shooting going to be? I know its not waiting for the zombies to come... Your optic should match the style of shooter you are, and the type of shooting you do...

This is why I own more than 1 optic for the same rifle, I couldn't make a decision on just one. There is some overlap in application here, but they all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

3 different optics on QD mounts:
ACOG TA31F
Vortex 1-4x
Red Dot

To buy one optic for zombies or aliens (SHTF) I would pick an ACOG. The ACOG has too many downfalls to by MY primary optic. If you want to read more about WHY... read this thread.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=568201

If you want the most versatile for the usable range of an AR, get GOOD a 1-4x

If you want something that rocks in CBQ and fast reflex shooting, get a Eotech or Aimpoint.

For the price of an Eotech/Mag combo, you can pretty much get an Eotech and a 1-4x scope... Call it a backup optic for the zombies if you want.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:24 PM
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I've tried them all from Eotechs, Aimpoints, Acogs, Trijicon Accupoints, Nikon 1-4 M223 and after all that, I wound up staying with a T1 2MOA with a twist off 3x mag. Didn;t like the flip to side mounts cause it blocked my peripheral vision and they're heavy with a Larue FTS mount. I like the twist off cause its fast and keeps my middy light when I don't need it. For shots where I want to reach out and touch someone I take it out of my side pouch and twist it on. Doesn't take any longer maybe half a second longer than reaching up and flipping a mag to the side.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
hahaha... welcome to my world... I find shopping for optics harder than trying to figure out which rifle to buy.

REALISTICALLY - What is the bulk of your shooting going to be? I know its not waiting for the zombies to come... Your optic should match the style of shooter you are, and the type of shooting you do...

This is why I own more than 1 optic for the same rifle, I couldn't make a decision on just one. There is some overlap in application here, but they all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

3 different optics on QD mounts:
ACOG TA31F
Vortex 1-4x
Red Dot

To buy one optic for zombies or aliens (SHTF) I would pick an ACOG. The ACOG has too many downfalls to by MY primary optic. If you want to read more about WHY... read this thread.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=568201

If you want the most versatile for the usable range of an AR, get GOOD a 1-4x

If you want something that rocks in CBQ and fast reflex shooting, get a Eotech or Aimpoint.

For the price of an Eotech/Mag combo, you can pretty much get an Eotech and a 1-4x scope... Call it a backup optic for the zombies if you want.
to answer your question, the bulk of my shooting will be just range time and it will also be used for home defense or zombie defense. No competitions or any of that nature, occasionally I would want to try and hit a long range target at 300 yards. Also I want to take some AR classes like for CQB and other tactical courses.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:07 PM
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With what you said, its pretty hard to overlook the 1-4x scopes.


I'm just curious, have you even took the time to go to local stores and check these things out first hand? You can talk about them all day on Internet, but nothing beats getting hands on.

You might find one to be to your liking more than the other.

There is plenty of information on this forum to point you in the right direction, but everyone has their own personal experience. Just go with what you like, and want to shoot with.

Some of the best hands on experiences Ive had playing with and testing optics is just being a nice guy when going to the range... Many people have accommodated my request to drool on their optics, and I usually reward them with sharing the experience with something I own or give them down a few rounds for their troubles. Its how I got the chance to shoot with an Eotech and an ACOG before buying one.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaseshift View Post
UNDER 1k
If you save up another $200 you can get a US Optics 1-4x
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Old 05-08-2012, 6:18 PM
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If you save up another $200 you can get a US Optics 1-4x
Those are really nice, along with their new 1-8x Dual Focal Plane...

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Old 05-08-2012, 9:37 PM
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Those are really nice, along with their new 1-8x Dual Focal Plane...
You mean this one... Best price of the 1-8's out there, or coming out soon, and best options


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Old 05-08-2012, 9:41 PM
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Damn you Dirty Dave

If thats as nice as I think it is, I would sell my ACOG to fund it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 9:49 PM
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The pics are kind of crappy, they are cell phone pics. The USO SN8 is not available yet, but it will be SOON. That is one of the first prototypes in the pics.
True 1x with the option of a Daylight visible Red-dot in the RFP.
8x on the high end and a FFP reticle with the option to have the reticle lit too.
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Old 05-08-2012, 9:57 PM
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Very cool, I did see the video on that optic. The 1-4x is more in my price range, but if the SN8 looks amazing. Very expensive tho, I think its about $2000 for the FFP and $2400 for the Dual Focal Plane.

The USO 1-4x pretty much replaces the need for an Eotech, Magnifier, and a Traditional 1-4x scope.

I need to find a place to check one of these out. S&B, Premier, and Leupold are also coming out with similar optics. The S&B from the reviews also look very tempting.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Very cool, I did see the video on that optic. The 1-4x is more in my price range, but if the SN8 looks amazing. Very expensive tho, I think its about $2000 for the FFP and $2400 for the Dual Focal Plane.

The USO 1-4x pretty much replaces the need for an Eotech, Magnifier, and a Traditional 1-4x scope.

I need to find a place to check one of these out. S&B, Premier, and Leupold are also coming out with similar optics. The S&B from the reviews also look very tempting.
Always hated the idea of having a red-dot and a magnifier. One optic should do it all.
The 1-4x DFP is pretty sweet too. It is about $1400 I think.
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Old 05-09-2012, 5:47 PM
phaseshift phaseshift is offline
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I haven't made a decisions yet but I'm leaning more towards this

http://www.opticsplanet.net/u-s-opti...ine-knobs.html
(btw this is what you guys are talking about right?)


or the eotech + magnifier route.
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Old 05-09-2012, 7:27 PM
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Aldo The Apache Aldo The Apache is offline
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Just get yourself a Eotech EXPS2-2 and Vortex VMX3 magnifier w/ ADM swing to side mount for the best of both worlds. Midwest has the Vortex and mount combo for 249.95 on their website. Both the Eotech and Vortex are setup for lower 1/3. Get it. Do it. You'll thank yourself.

PS that setup is way, way below your budget. If you want a true co-witness, there are options in that set up as well.
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Old 05-09-2012, 7:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo The Apache View Post
Just get yourself a Eotech EXPS2-2 and Vortex VMX3 magnifier w/ ADM swing to side mount for the best of both worlds. Midwest has the Vortex and mount combo for 249.95 on their website. Both the Eotech and Vortex are setup for lower 1/3. Get it. Do it. You'll thank yourself.

PS that setup is way, way below your budget. If you want a true co-witness, there are options in that set up as well.
If the dude can afford a US Optics 1-4x with a DFP reticle, there is no reason to get the Eotech... its not even in the same league... that is one high end scope.

If he wants an Eotech to save money, then thats a different story.
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