Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Firearms Accessories: Holsters, Safes, Lights & more
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Firearms Accessories: Holsters, Safes, Lights & more If it locks up, carries, fits on to or cleans up your firearms, discuss it here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #281  
Old 12-20-2012, 6:14 PM
gotshotgun?'s Avatar
gotshotgun? gotshotgun? is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alameda County
Posts: 3,670
iTrader: 119 / 100%
Default

Wow that is a powerful review. Made my decision for me.

Thank you for that.
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 12-28-2012, 2:56 PM
RhinoMetalsCustomerServic RhinoMetalsCustomerServic is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Rebuttal from Rhino Metals

Part 1...

Thanks for notifying Rhino Metals that someone had posted a review on our Rhino Extreme Protection Model 5942XP. This design has been sold on Costco.com for almost 4years now with consistently outstanding reviews for product quality and customer support so the nature of this review is unusual.
Oddly, we have not been contacted by the consumer with these complaints and we noticed that this exact same review has been posted twice on Costco.com, under two separate product reviews. In addition, the comments are carefully worded to imply things that are blatantly false; e.g. the leadtime to receive the safe, that the safe was shipped with the wrong lock and was built differently than advertised and not to industry standards. While we question the authenticity and true origin of this review, for now we will treat it as legitimate.

In addition to our Bighorn Series (imported), Rhino Metals is carving out a niche in the market for a quality, affordable, Made-In-The USA product, bumping out well entrenched competitors. The 5942XP/XP37EL-D is one of many Made-In-The-USA gun safes models that are manufactured by Rhino Metals. We stand behind our products and customer support. Like all Costco products, the customer can always return the product for a refund, and we pay the freight, but in this case no complaint or request for refund has been made.

However, in the event that our assessment is incorrect, we will reply to the comments as if this were a legitimate review.

Lead time is and has been 4-6 weeks, not 4 months. This leadtime is a requirement by the online retailer from which the safe was purchased. Please provide the name and we can post the actual order and ship dates.

1) There is more steel structure to this door frame design than he can see and realize. The body and outer door jam into which the door recesses, is 10 GA. We do use a 12 GA reinforcement that forms the inner section of the doorjam. What can’t be seen is that this 12 GA part actually extends from the 10 GA section of the doorjam to the interior sidewall of the safe. When welded to the 10 GA lip of the doorjam, this creates a rectangular box cross section surrounding all 4 sides of the door frame. This provides rigidity against pry attacks and also contributes to fire resistance by creating a dead air space immediately behind the door frame/jam’s perimeter. In actual fire and pry testing, this design works very well, despite the opinions expressed by the reviewer. The rigidity gained from the box cross section allows thinner material to be used on this part. This is not a cost cutting measure. It actually has more steel than the industry standard door jam design, and requires more labor to weld it. In this case, the steel is in a place where it is more useful, but is not visible.

2) The actual description used on the website where the safe was purchased is listed below:.

[I]Security Features:
• Rated with UL ® as a Residential Security Container and exceeds California DOJ requirements
• American made, UL listed, Lagard brand electric lock
• Extra thick rigid door for added security against prying attacks. 4.5” thick door
• Full coverage 3/16” thick protection plate in door
• Exclusive, hardened steel locking bolts
• Patented ultra-hard tungsten carbide impregnated plate protects the lock from drill attacks. Rockwell C 82-84 hardness. Much harder than armor plate and ball bearing protection systems
• Patented Lock mechanism provides up to five times more security than standard systems
• Spring loaded re-locker keeps safe secure if lock is tampered with or removed
• Weight: 1080 lbs.

Based on the reviewers comments, we believe he may have imagined the term “3/16” thick protection plate in door” to mean that there was an extra, 3/16” plate in the door behind some other undescribed plate or sheet. Not sure, but we do believe that the wording in this would be more clear if changed. We are taking steps to change the wording from “in door” to “on door” or “3/16” plate door front”. This should help avoid any misunderstandings in the future.

This description is quite inaccurate, leaving out some major components. Behind the 3/16” plate door is a 5/8” layer of sheetrock then another unmentioned 12” high 10 GA thick cross member running across the mid section of the safe, to which the drill plate and lock mechanism are attached. This cross member has ¾” stiffening flanges on top and bottom and is welded to the side members of the back of the door, which are double-stepped 10 GA. Additionally, the drill plate is a total of ¼” thick, comprised of 10 GA thick steel backing plate and another approx. 1/8” layer of tungsten carbide particles bonded to it in a patented, proprietary process. Tungsten carbide is hardness of RC 82-84, much harder than armor plate. To drill through to the lock one would have to go through the 3/16” outer plate, then the 10 GA cross member, then the tungsten carbide hardplate, then the 10 GA backing plate. Manufacturers vary on drill plate designs, but this is how the vast majority of gun safes are made, regardless of brand. Doorbolts require space to operate back and forth in, so all safes have “air space” in the door. Any similarly priced safe brand out there will have similar construction, frequently with less layers and total thickness of steel.

A common misconception is that steel protects well against drill attacks, and that there are large armor plates inside the doors of safes.

The truth is that any steel, whether A36 or hardened armored plate, only provides limited protection against drill attacks. The primary security benefit from using 3/16” plate on the outer layer of the safe door is increased protection against axe, grinding, cutting, and pry attacks. There is little drill protection gained from thicker steel, even armor plate. A 1/8” diameter tungsten carbide drill bit (about $8.00) will penetrate 3/8” thick AR400 armor plate in under 30 seconds with a 14v cordless drill. Actually, two 1/8” thick layers of thinner armor plate (totaling only ¼”) would yield much better drill protection than 3/8” AR. For this reason, adding large expensive armor plates to the interior of the door is not cost or security effective and is therefore not used by gun safe manufacturers.

What’s more important for drill protection is the actual hardness and performance of the drill protection plate and the anti-tamper & anti-drill attack features of the lock system.

Gun safe manufacturers size the drill protection plate big enough to cover the lock and lock tongue engagement area, the relocker area, and enough surrounding area to prevent someone from drilling through the door at an oblique angle in an attempt to bypass the drill protection plate and hit one of those critical components just listed. The drill plate on the Rhino is sized appropriately and larger than many other leading brands in the industry. Additionally the lock mechanism is designed with numerous anti-tamper & anti-drill features that other brands do not have, not readily apparent to the untrained eye. The Rhino lock mechanism may appear simple, but its security is proven. To our knowledge, the patented lock mechanism used on the Rhino 5942XP safe has not been successfully burglarized in its history (since 1999). It will happen eventually, but it hasn’t happened yet.

3) Again, this highlights another misconception about what makes a safe secure and what is the industry standard. The back of the door does not need to be continuously welded to give adequate security, whereas the body should be. This is standard industry wide. The weld arrangement we use provides the security needed without increasing cost/price unnecessarily that would arise from continuously welding the door.

4) Another myth is that lots of large diameter doorbolts add security. Like big tires on a car; it doesn’t necessarily make it go faster, it just makes it look better. Door bolt material strength and engagement much more important. Rhino’s are made from hardened ground tool steel, with a hardness of RC 54, similar to quality knife blades. The industry standard is a much weaker and softer grade of steel, chrome plated to look visually appealing. However, a 1” diameter industry standard doorbolt can be cut through by a hacksaw in 1.1 minutes. On a Rhino 1” hardened steel doorbolt, the saw can’t even start a groove in the same amount of time! The rigidity of the door and door frame, coupled with the superior strength of the doorbolt mean that more than 4 doorbolts on each side, or anchor bolts more than 5/16” are not required and don’t provide additional security, just added cost. The quantity and diameter of the doorbolts are accurately depicted on the website where this model was purchased.

see Part 2
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 12-28-2012, 2:56 PM
RhinoMetalsCustomerServic RhinoMetalsCustomerServic is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Part 2

5) The door frame (back of door) is 10 GA material. The door jam is 12 GA. Sleeves and guides, while enhancing the cosmetics, do not necessarily increase security. The holes are cut with CNC equipment. Guides used by other manufacturers are usually nylon or plastic and deform during pry attacks. They don’t necessarily help or hurt security but do add a finished look to the product.

6) This type of doorbolt mounting is standard in the industry for comparable gun safe models/brands. Individually active doorbolts do not necessarily guarantee any added security; they just sound better to the uneducated consumer. They all are still actuated from one central point. The product was never advertised as having individually driven doorbolts.

7) Safe manufacturer’s use one or more similar tensioning means in the door jam to reduce play in the door. Rhino Extreme Protection doorbolts fit into receiving holes rather than catching on one side behind a simple lip. This design prevents exposure to critical components on the inside of the safe (doorbolts, door frame) and increases fire protection.

8) This item was not advertised as having a slip clutch. Some safes do, most don’t and it is not needed on this design.

9) The Rhino 5942XP comes standard with an electronic lock. If a consumer received a mechanical lock, it is most likely because they requested it. The LaGard 2M mechanical lock installed on this safe has an anti-manipulation feature that creates the sounds and feelings the reviewer describes. LaGard makes quality Made-In-The-USA locks, but we would agree that the action is not as smooth as their older design. However, it is more secure. Again, things are not always as they appear.

10) The fire rating takes into account the light mounting area. The ceiling has 5 layers of 5/8” sheetrock, with the exception of this small strip removed for the fluorescent light fixture, where there are 4 layers. Mounting the light in this way is more aesthetically pleasing and provides the best access to the top shelf.

11) The seal activates at a temperature well below when the carpet melts and expands up to 8 times its original size. Actual fire testing contradicts the assumptions made in the review.

12) The anchoring procedure is done very simply from inside the safe, once it has been put in place and there is no need to backdrill the anchor holes in the bottom. The holes for the shipping feet are not used to secure the safe. The top layer of the sheetrock in the floor does not have holes in it. This allows for a smooth, fully carpeted floor, protecting guns. However, the underlying layers of sheetrock and the metal body do have the holes predrilled in the sheetrock. At the back of the safe floor, there is a fabric loop that when pulled, lifts this top layer, exposing these anchoring access holes. At initial installation, the consumer would lift the top layer exposing the anchoring holes, drill the holes in the concrete, install the anchors and then replace the top layer. We are developing graphic instructions that will be included in each safe to explain this process.

13) Experience in the field and testing both at UnderWriters Laboratory (UL) and in our own factory contradicts his opinion.

Many consumers don’t realize that any safe can be broken into. It just takes time and opportunity. Most residential burglaries are the smash and grab type, where the thief is not properly equipped mentally or technically, and has little time to waste. This is the reason that UL devised their Residential Security Container standard with a 5 minute tool on time limit. You can increase the time and tools it takes to break in, by spending a lot more money on a UL TL15, or TL 30 rated safe. But these still only have a 15 or 30 minute UL test limit. Leave the house for a weekend and there’s plenty of time for someone to defeat one of these higher rated safes. Furthermore, these safes are prohibitively expensive and heavy, and as a result are out of the question for most people. A possibly better solution, which would give you vastly better overall security would be to have the house on an alarm system, and get a UL RSC safe, like the Rhino or Bighorn’s.

While no product is perfect, the Rhino 5942XP/XP37EL-D, is a good safe. We apologize for the consumer’s expectations not being met, but feel that many of the complaints/comments are based on false assumptions and misconceptions about safes, rather than on any false claims made in advertising or low quality product or design.

For any comments or questions on our safes, please contact us directly as we may not monitor this blog. 1-800-701-9128 or sales@rhinosafe.com.
Reply With Quote
  #284  
Old 12-28-2012, 5:14 PM
Faded's Avatar
Faded Faded is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 355
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Nice reply, I found it very informative.
__________________
NRA Member - CalGun Contributor - CGF Monthly Donor - SAF Member
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 12-28-2012, 5:56 PM
MT1 MT1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Santa Rosa
Posts: 3,661
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faded View Post
Nice reply, I found it very informative.
Absolutely - but I didn't take the negative review too seriously to begin with.
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 12-29-2012, 8:27 PM
xibunkrlilkidsx's Avatar
xibunkrlilkidsx xibunkrlilkidsx is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Escondido,92026
Posts: 5,412
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarson View Post
I'm not a locksmith as you profess to being. However, I've said it before and I'll say it again. FOR THE MONEY this safe has yet to be beat, if you are buying new. If you can show a better alternative WITHIN THE SAME PRICE RANGE, everyone would love to see it. Bighorn safes offer an incredible bang for the buck. No one in this thread has ever said they are THE MOST secure or impenetrable. However, they offer a great level of protection to a would be dirt bag thief. And good luck flexing the door to my 1100 pound 44" Bighorn safe. You'll break your leg first. Believe me, I've tried.
And when the weld and rivets on the bolt work start failing(twice i have seen this happen on the cheap costco sales) and you are locked out of the safe you will see why they sell them for the price they do. Safe your self some extra money and buy a safe that is not sold only to big box stores for a reason, because they want cheap prices which = a poorly built safe. Like every company they have safes built over seas and some here, some are better than others. But, i would advuise anyone with a brain cell to never buy a cosco(winchester or big horn or what ever their special of the month cheapo is) home depot, Lowes safes, that they plan on storing anything of value in.

And where did i attack their security? they keep someone from walking off with your weapons, but they are not going to stop a determined thief with basic tools very long. Amsec, Gardall, Cannon, Liberty all make safes in that price range that are better.

Let me know when you have learned enough about safes and how they work when you spend 5 years drilling and repairing safes that range from sentry to TL60 safes in banks.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
PSN Id: FNChester
Certified Welder-ANSI/AWS D1.2 1F/G, 2F/G, 3 F/G up to 1/2 plate aluminium GTAW. &
D1.1 1F/G, 2F/G, 3F/G unlimited range, Steel SMAW
I can make custom shooting targets and paracord accesories. PM me.

Last edited by xibunkrlilkidsx; 12-29-2012 at 8:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 12-29-2012, 8:34 PM
bombadillo's Avatar
bombadillo bombadillo is offline
Former Humboldtian
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: IDAHO and another proud member of the quitters club!
Posts: 13,999
iTrader: 78 / 100%
Default

get the best money will allow. I would buy by far the heaviest gauge setup with the most sheer weight including fire retardance in there. Get a beast of a safe and It'll never go wrong for all your needs. You take care of it and it'll take care of you, your kids, and your grandkids.
__________________
http://mossbergmvp.com/index.php?forum/
If you have any questions on the MVP platform, ask me here or on the "other" site. Same handle there.
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 01-01-2013, 6:53 AM
Blarson's Avatar
Blarson Blarson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 117
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xibunkrlilkidsx View Post
Amsec, Gardall, Cannon, Liberty all make safes in that price range that are better.

Let me know when you have learned enough about safes and how they work when you spend 5 years drilling and repairing safes that range from sentry to TL60 safes in banks.
Please share which safes from these companies your referring to, as I shopped/looked at all of those companies prior to buying my Big Horn safe, and couldn't find a similarly priced safe with the same or better security features. Your offering criticism without a viable solution for someone who has limited resources to spend on a safe.

Safes are like cars. Yes if you buy a BMW, you will get a higher quality car than a Hyundai. But not everyone can afford a BMW. Nor are they able to get the smallest 1 series bmw When they need a full size car, just so they can have the top quality car.

Bighorn safes are not in the BMW category. I know that. But when you are shopping (out of necessity) in the Honda, Kia, Toyota market, the Bighorn safes stand significantly above the rest, in that category.
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 01-01-2013, 6:55 AM
Blarson's Avatar
Blarson Blarson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 117
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT1 View Post
Absolutely - but I didn't take the negative review too seriously to begin with.
+1
The posters review was his first and only post on this forum. I call bs. I reported it as spam and suggest others do the same.

Last edited by Blarson; 01-01-2013 at 6:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #290  
Old 01-01-2013, 4:55 PM
BuckSlayer6 BuckSlayer6 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarson View Post
+1
The posters review was his first and only post on this forum. I call bs. I reported it as spam and suggest others do the same.
WOW, Blarson…are you for real? I make my first post and because it is not completely in line with your beliefs or in support of this product, it must be BS, SPAM or worse. Yet the rebuttal was also posted by a first time poster and I don’t hear you crying foul of this post. I am glad we live in America where freedom of speech is just as much a protected right as is our right to keep and bear arms. I would hope that most of the users of this site respect our rights and constitution more than you seem to by trying to persuade other to report my posting as spam, (I am guessing with the intention or getting it removed), just because you don’t approve of the content!
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 01-02-2013, 7:31 AM
Blarson's Avatar
Blarson Blarson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 117
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckSlayer6 View Post
WOW, Blarson…are you for real? I make my first post and because it is not completely in line with your beliefs or in support of this product, it must be BS, SPAM or worse. Yet the rebuttal was also posted by a first time poster and I don’t hear you crying foul of this post. I am glad we live in America where freedom of speech is just as much a protected right as is our right to keep and bear arms. I would hope that most of the users of this site respect our rights and constitution more than you seem to by trying to persuade other to report my posting as spam, (I am guessing with the intention or getting it removed), just because you don’t approve of the content!
The rebuttal you reference not only has valid points suggesting your review is less than honest, but also refutes nearly all of the negative points you describe. See below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoMetalsCustomerServic View Post
the nature of this review is unusual.
Oddly, we have not been contacted by the consumer with these complaints and we noticed that this exact same review has been posted twice on Costco.com, under two separate product reviews. In addition, the comments are carefully worded to imply things that are blatantly false; e.g. the leadtime to receive the safe, that the safe was shipped with the wrong lock and was built differently than advertised and not to industry standards. While we question the authenticity and true origin of this review, for now we will treat it as legitimate.

We stand behind our products and customer support. Like all Costco products, the customer can always return the product for a refund, and we pay the freight, but in this case no complaint or request for refund has been made.

However, in the event that our assessment is incorrect, we will reply to the comments AS IF THEY WERE A LEGITIMATE REVIEW.
I was the third person to question your review, and Instead of proving or defending the legitimacy of your review, you deflect by implying that in some way I intend on depriving you of your freedom of speech. If the review is legitimate, by all means share your opinion. However, if the review is suspect, it shouldn't belong here. My advise, instead of focusing on me, reply to the rebuttal of your review provided by rhino metals. And if in fact you really are unhappy with your safe, return it and buy something else. Rhino will even pay for your freight.
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 01-03-2013, 7:39 PM
BuckSlayer6 BuckSlayer6 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

It would appear that after posting my review of the Rhino 5942XP, I am being called out on the authenticity of my review and certain claims I made in my review. In fact I have been accused of making statements that are “blatantly false”. While my first review was pointed and accurate in the description, to accuse me of being a blatant liar is a farce.

Let’s start with the lead-time to receive the safe, from the day I placed the order to the day I received my safe was 128 days (4.266 Months). I received a thank you email from Rhino Metals the day I placed my order. In fact, 28 days after placing my order I contacted Rhino Metals to inquire about the delivery of the safe. I was told that my safe would not be to me for almost another 6 weeks. I was optimistic that I would see my safe within this 10 week window, I was wrong. Time went on, no safe, no word from Rhino Metals. So, now 86 days after my order was placed, I am po’d. When Rhino Metals was again contacted, I find out my order had been setting in limbo for 2.866 Months, yes indeed over 12 weeks. All this despite the fact that I had previously contacted Rhino Metals about my order. I was told my safe would go into production and would ship in a few weeks. I was also told they would keep me updated and call me back the next day with more info, that call from Rhino Metal never came. The safe did ship a few weeks later. After a week went by and I had heard nothing from Rhino Metals or the shipping company, I the consumer once again found myself placing calls to see where my safe was. My safe had been sitting on a shipping dock for a week. Who knows when someone was going to call me. The shipping company could not get it out for a couple of days, so with my work schedule we put it off for a bit longer. I then again notified Rhino Metal of my great disappointment in the whole process and the fact that the shipping company was not handling this in a professional matter, to my surprise , once again there was absolutely NO response or assistance from Rhino Metals. On the scheduled day of delivery, the safe was to arrive between 7:30am and 8:00am. By 11:00am that day I had not seen nor heard from the shipping company. Once again I start calling around to find out why it has not showed up, only to find it was not even on a truck yet but still on the dock. They had a driver coming in that afternoon and promised it would be his first stop. At last it was here…..128 days after placing the order. To make things worse, during my first conversations with Rhino Metals I was promised some additional items would be included with my safe for the trouble I had experienced up to that point. My safe arrived with nothing extra, not even the spare shelf brackets the manual states are include. Truly a sign of great customer service…hah.

I never said the safe was shipped with the wrong lock as they have implied. I made a clear statement that mine had a dial lock and not an electronic lock. This was done to make it clear that my review was indeed for the mechanical lock, not the electronic. Based on their own admission, the lock operates as I have explained and does indeed feel inferior to the previous model of dial locks. It is a real pain when dialing the combination and you stop on the number index to find that when you remove your hand the dial moves on its own right past the number you stopped on, therefore requiring you to start all over again. You will learn to keep a finger on the dial at all times to prevent this from happening, again it is a pain. The cheap feel and operation was never explained to me when we talked about a dial option on my safe. Perhaps they should have told me about this or even started sourcing a different lock. I never mentioned that this lock was not a secure product as they lead you to believe, again they are putting words in my mouth.

Let’s talk about the door, here is the wording from the Costco web site they made reference to “and an ADDITIONAL full coverage 3/16” thick steel protection plate IN the door”, this wording still appears on the Costco site as I post this. Additional to what? If the 3/16" front plate is removed from the door, all that is left is a 12" wide strip and the frame, NO ADDITIONAL full coverage 3/16” thick steel protection plate IN the door, as is stated. Yes the 12” strip adds protection and rigidity to the door, I never denied that. My description of the door was however accurate without giving a potential perpetrator a detail description of the material behind the surface as Rhino choose to do. I stand behind my statement that the door has minimal additional steel around the locking area. The door is 54.5” tall with a 12” plate behind it, that accounts for 22% of the door having protection once the 3/16" plate is removed. So 78% of the door is indeed a single sheet of metal, so that is minimal by any standards. Additionally they mention the 5/8” layer of sheetrock, yet fail to confirm it is stops several inches from the top and sides of the inner door.

The door bolts leave me puzzled. The bolts can only be as strong as their weakest point. Where the bolts meet the framework they are ¾” in diameter. So let’s just look at the outward side of the door frame. A potential perpetrator would only need to cut through the ¾” portion of the bolt should they locate the correct spot on the door frame where the bolts meet the frame. Oddly enough the rebuttal fails to address the fact that the bolts are turned down to ¾” diameter at their base. This makes the bolts 25% smaller than listed when they say it is a 1” bolt. You could say it is like putting a 3” fire hose on a garden spigot and then wondering why you didn’t have enough water to put out the fire, after all you where using a 3” hose. This doesn’t even account for the fact that if the perpetrator attacks the safe on the inward side of the door frame that they only need to get past the head on a 5/6” bolt. So once again, my description is accurate.

My description of the smaller gauge metal in the door jambs was again correct. The safe is listed as having 10 gauge material in the body. To me the door jamb is part of the body and should follow through with like material. My vehicle has a door and door jambs, these are all considered part of the body structure, why should a safe be any different? They may argue that the 12 gauge material provides adequate protection, but it is smaller than the body material that was listed. Using larger material would then only make it stronger. I don’t care that it has more than industry standards, it is not what one would expect from the description.

Rhino Metals says the safe has a continuously welded body, yet again they claim the door is not part of the body, therefore per industry standards it does not get continuously weld. I will use the same argument, my vehicle door is part of the vehicles body, why should a consumer expect different from a safe. Enough with the smoke and mirrors, industry standards mean nothing to a consumer, that is inside lingo meant to confuse the facts at hand. The facts are clear, the door is stitch welded, it is part of the body, so once again my initial statement is correct. I might also mention that the door jambs, again a part of the body, are not continuously welded either.

The instructions provided with the safe clearly state to mount the safe to the floor, you need only remove the plastic plugs in the floor to access the pre-drilled holes. As the rebuttal explains, this is also false. It is up to the consumer to find out that they must remove the interior shelving and then the flooring to get access to the mounting holes. A word of caution when doing so, the material around the door jamb is tight and when removing the base and floor pieces the jamb trim will also pull loose as the short sheetrock screws barely penetrate the inner structure. Perhaps if Rhino use a separate manual for the American made safe and didn’t share it with the China made product, the instruction could be more helpful to the consumer. Not to mention it would not associate the overall operation and quality to be equal to the China counterpart.

So to sum it up, my assessments where true and accurate. They argue that they follow industry standard as an explanation for what they do. They also cited cost as a reason for what they do. The consumer does not know the industry standards. What the consumer knows is what is advertised. The claim to make the country's highest quality gun safes, and also say “Our Rhino Series safes are the best made safes in America”. That's a pretty tall statement, especially for a company that follows industry standards. To build the best you need to be setting and exceeding industry standards, not just be another sheep in the flock if they want to make these claims. What was advertised is not what they built in my opinion.

As for returning it, even if I did and they paid return shipping, I am still out the $600 it cost to have it placed and removed from its location in the building. So you ask why did I keep it, 1) I don’t wish to be out $600 for nothing, 2) if you had closely read my review, while I do not feel it is the most secure box out there, I do believe it will meet me fire requirements, 3) while there are shortcoming in the product as I see it, and it’s advertised construction and features, the overall craftsmanship of what was done is done well, 4) And last is the fact that Rhino Metals failed to follow through on returning phone calls as promised and failed to respond to my final email to them as well. Once they saw this deal going south, they cut ties and apparently were willing to accept their losses, so I was not prepared to waste any more of my time in dealing with them. Keeping the safe was by far the easier alternative.

What further amazes me is that Rhino Metal and Blarson both would like to label me as a Blatant Liar. My review was honest, factual and informative. My intentions where to provide the facts as has often been requested by Blarson when posts are made that are less than favorable of the product line. I am confident Rhino Metal will take note of my findings, fine tune their operation and only improve on their products, advertising and customer service skills. While they may have lost me as a customer, they have and incredible opportunity to make the best of this and strengthen their brand.

Last edited by BuckSlayer6; 01-04-2013 at 6:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 01-04-2013, 9:20 PM
Blarson's Avatar
Blarson Blarson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 117
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

@Buckslayer6
Thank you for responding to rhinos rebuttal. Your initial and first posting on this thread and forum appeared so foreign to any other review on these safes. Most, including myself, have reported outstanding customer service, quick delivery times and as expected and described safes. Most reviews are very positive. With all of those things considered, I felt skeptical.

With that being said, please accept my apology. If you really had that bad of customer service, rhino should have made things right with you. That really sucks that you had such bad experience before you ever received your safe. That would have been very upsetting. I hope Rhino does the right thing by you.

I started this thread to try to get a good deal on a safe. It turned into what it is now; a place for reviews, sales and opinions, good or bad. Your review is more than welcome here, good or bad.

Thank you for your response.
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 01-22-2013, 5:01 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 18,869
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
The nice thing about the networking stuff is that you have have a hard drive in your safe that you can backup your data to. Then if there is a fire situation, you still have your data.
A better use is to put your home surveillance systems DVR in the safe so that intruders cannot get to it easily. However from what I have seen the door on the Bighorn safes can be easily defeated with a fire axe. That is why I opted to spent a bit more on one of the Rhino Series safes that they offer. 1/4" full coverage steel plate on the door and it is reinforced. Between that and my home security system thieves are not going to be able to get in before the police arrive.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 01-22-2013, 5:10 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 18,869
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
Are you suggesting the Rhino safes fall into this category?
Bighorn safes are cheaply made in China. Rhino Safes resells them here in the US. So yes, they are cheap.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 02-06-2013, 11:08 PM
Soul TKR's Avatar
Soul TKR Soul TKR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal - Temecula/Murrieta
Posts: 117
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDay View Post
A better use is to put your home surveillance systems DVR in the safe so that intruders cannot get to it easily. However from what I have seen the door on the Bighorn safes can be easily defeated with a fire axe. That is why I opted to spent a bit more on one of the Rhino Series safes that they offer. 1/4" full coverage steel plate on the door and it is reinforced. Between that and my home security system thieves are not going to be able to get in before the police arrive.
Isn't heat from the dvr a problem?
Reply With Quote
  #297  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:17 AM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 18,869
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul TKR View Post
Isn't heat from the dvr a problem?
Shouldn't be. If you're worried about it stick an SSD in the DVR. The safe has some airflow, it only seals up when there's a fire and the door seal (or seals) expand. Dehumidifier rods work by heating up the inside.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #298  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:37 PM
Soul TKR's Avatar
Soul TKR Soul TKR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal - Temecula/Murrieta
Posts: 117
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I don't even see these safes available from Costco/Sams Club anymore
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 04-09-2013, 9:44 PM
Blarson's Avatar
Blarson Blarson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 117
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The Bighorn 19ECB is on sale right now at Costco.com. $200 off. Brings the price down to $569.99 with free shipping. The sale ends 05/06/13 or when they sell out.
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 04-10-2013, 8:13 PM
BuckSlayer6 BuckSlayer6 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Follow up on customer service and product description

It has been some time since my review was posted. Rhino Metals acted quickly to defend their product. They worked with Costco to get the less than positive review removed from their site. Neither Costco or Rhino Metals have made any attempts to contact me about the accuracy of my review, they simple worked together to remove it. It would appear that protecting the vendor is more important than protecting the consumer in this case. In Rhino's rebuttal they made reference to the fact that they would re-word their description of the door to eliminate any confusion. Well they did re-word it, the description now states:
1) Full coverage 3/16” thick solid plate steel door front
as well as the statement:
2) and an additional full coverage 3/16” thick steel protection plate in the door.
These guy are so full of it. They say I am clueless, yet the reword their description to take out any question to my original assumption of the doors description and construction. They clearly sate that the safe should be built with not only a full 3/16" thick solid plate steel door front, but also has an additional full coverage 3/16" thick plate steel protection in the door.
Don't take my word for it, go to Costco.com and read it for your self.
So, there it is folks, make you own decision as to where to buy a safe and from what manufacture, but I would strongly suggest you but it from as store and manufacture that has the items on display for your inspection prior to purchasing. The description in this case clearly is NOT what they will deliver.
I challenge them to build me a safe with the door they have described here, just as I expected to get the first time.......I am sure that will never happen.....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:55 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.