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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 59 8.08%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 486 66.58%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 17 2.33%
I paid too much for my Membership! 34 4.66%
They will go out of business this year! 18 2.47%
Don't want anything to do with them! 116 15.89%
Voters: 730. You may not vote on this poll

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  #721  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:13 PM
mievil mievil is offline
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Ugh. Sunday/Monday looks to be pretty darn windy coming up, too.

Looking forward to my first time out. Pretty much ok with not pushing for a DG, so I'm not sure which gun to bring. Want to do well, but want to have fun, too. Anyone else going this weekend?
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  #722  
Old 02-26-2013, 4:37 AM
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Thumbs up Front Sight

There is no doubt that there is a bit of a cheese factor with Dr. Piazza's marketing. However the facts are that there is no better training facility for the money (and I've been to a few). Anyone who says they would never give Front Sight a chance either 1. Can't afford it 2. They prefer shooting beer cans, or enjoy standing at a gun range learning nothing.

Front sight is first class, avoid the gossip.

I just wish I had more time to get out there.

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  #723  
Old 02-26-2013, 5:40 AM
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Ambassador home based courses are now live.


https://athometraining.frontsight.com


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
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  #724  
Old 02-28-2013, 6:18 PM
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I'm a Front sight Diamond turned Ambassador. I LOVE Front sight!
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  #725  
Old 02-28-2013, 8:10 PM
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can a FS member pm me info for Front Sight Diamond Membership? my shooting buddy and i are interested.
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  #726  
Old 02-28-2013, 9:16 PM
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Ambassador home based courses are now live.


https://athometraining.frontsight.com

Front Sight At Home Training Promotional Video

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  #727  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:34 AM
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can a FS member pm me info for Front Sight Diamond Membership? my shooting buddy and i are interested.
PM sent
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  #728  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:42 PM
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Just got back from my first visit. Very mixed views on this joint. Headed to another next month so we'll see what happens.
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  #729  
Old 03-05-2013, 1:42 AM
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Just got back from my first visit. Very mixed views on this joint. Headed to another next month so we'll see what happens.
I think we'd all be interested to hear what it was that you didn't like about it. Care to share?
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  #730  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:37 AM
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I'm an ambassador as of about 3 weeks ago. Need to get out there some time to take a 4 day Defensive Hand Gun Course with my new glock 23. Anyone planning a trip some time soon from central california/east bay?
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  #731  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:47 AM
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I think we'd all be interested to hear what it was that you didn't like about it. Care to share?
I had just gotten back at 11:30PM from the 4 day, so didn't have time to elaborate. haha

I took the 4 day Practical Rifle course. We had 64 people in our class. It was HUGE. I suspect this has to do with recent events and that classes before were lower. Lots of people with zero prior experience, which is absolutely fine.

From the newbie side, the instructors did not go over little bits of detail. "Expect this MOA", "Perform a double tap to the thorasic cavity", call outs like this were not explained to people. If I have never taken training before, and renting a firearm on location, what the heck do statements like those mean. We are on the line, "Perform a double tap to the thorasic cavity"......OK....what is that?

We only practiced malfunction drills twice in 4 days, add once in dry immediately before the test in one practice per type of malfunction. Then we were tested. Seemed a bit low for me. I did run malf drills in the hotel for about an hour off of day 3 which helped, but I thought this was supposed to be a large emphasis on this part of the training.

We had 3 instructors on hand for the most part each day. For 64 people. This was very, very low in my opinion. Occasionally, such as when 2 day got out, we would inherit the instructors from that class for about 2 hours, but then they were off doing other things. There were several times that I would be looking for clarification on a procedure and the intructors would be sitting back by the trailer talking or sitting down while the line was on the pad.

It was windy. Not terribly bad, but due to this, and the size of the class, approximately line 1-6 and 24-30 routinely could not hear the callouts of the main RO. We were always asking for repeats of callouts, and finally resorted to having the actual class members start relaying calls down the line. I was on line 30, so if anyone on the line was talking, I had to ask them to stop so I could hear what was going on.

While we were in the box for procedural instruction, there was constant talking by members of the class. Distracting talking. I really only remember one time that the RO told the class to shut up.

I brought an AK and was the only one in the class to have done so. I knew things were going to be different for me, and expected to not do as well as others because it was a brand new platform for me. 99.5% of the class had ARs. We had one M1 Carbine, two SCARs, one FS2000, one 7mm bolt gun, and 58 ARs. Everyone did receive training on how to operate their individual rifles, and those of us that were not running ARs did in fact receive specific instructions on the line every time which was actually nice.

This is a brand new rifle for me. I've never operated the AK before. I was running iron sights trying to see how I could do. I had a bear of a time getting my rifle zeroed. The rifle was factory zeroed at 100m. When we went to 50 to zero, which all three of the instructors said was not the actual place to zero an AK, we thought we had it dialed in a tad high off the bag, they had raised my sight a turn and a half. Then when we went to different positions on the line, I found I was low, then low, then more low. At 50 off the bag I was 6 inches off center. At 100 I had nothing on paper. At 200 I was certain I had actually hit the 30 number placard. I asked for assistance from all 3 ROs that were on line at all 3 positions and got "hmmmmm that's weird." I asked if they could shoot my gun to see if it was something I was doing personally. "We'll get you dialed in." I asked if I could take time after the class to try a bag again and was told "we'll get you dialed in before the end of the class." This was very, very frustrating for me. When we were at 25 up to 5m I was POA/POI. I felt that was a little strange since they were saying we should be compensating. Hostage taker all my shots were exactly where I pointed the gun. I informed the RO that my suspicion was the gun was sighted in low because I didn't have to compensate. He said that was because my sights were so close to the barrel...... At 25 on back, I was basically throwing money downrange trying to figure out my POI. At the end of day 2 I informed our lead RO that I felt like I wasn't getting the assistance I wanted to get the rifle dialed in, and frankly, I needed help. Again, "We'll get you dialed in." I drove back to the hotel in a high degree of mixed emotions on this.

At the end of day 2, in the hotel, I reset my rifle to factory zero figuring I needed to do something. Back on the range day 3, I found I was about where I should be 25m and forward. At 50 I was a smidge high, at 100 I was a smidge low, and at 200 I was aiming at about the belly button and getting chest to neck, shoulder to shoulder. This was more inspiring. This means my spread now was due to operator error. This I can deal with. I found I do have an issue of sight alignment when I am standing, compared to when I am prone. I do have a hard time figuring out the sights on this gun because of this. I have two different sight pictures between the two different positions. I asked an RO how I should be looking at my sights and told him the two different pictures I observed. He told me, "line up your sights as best as you can." I said I understood, but which sight picture should I be trying to reproduce. I should have one picture all the time, so I am at the same self induced zero in all positions. He looked at me with a smirk and said the same thing. "Line up your sights as best as you can." This is not an answer.

After that, at the end of day 3, I decided to just do the best I can do. I do have a huge issue with my trigger control. There are lots of things I need to work on here by myself, and with ammo prices being as high as they are this is going to be tough. I have very fast presentation, but I rush the shots which hurts my shot placement. I need to work on my aim at prone. Forcing a sight alignment that does not feel natural to me is difficult. So I need to work on that, too.

What it comes down to with my views on this class....I obviously need personal work with the rifle. I have issues on trigger. I felt like I learned all this on my own. I do not feel I got the level of personal interaction that I should have with the instructors. Hearing "We'll get you dialed in" for half a day while I'm throwing ammo down range was not inspiring. I felt the instructors were more on hand to baby sit, and should have been on hand to instruct. The speeches were cool. It made me think of a lot of things I had never thought of before as a firearm owner. The instructors were nice. Too nice? I think they should have held more order in the class. Should have been more strict. But how strict do you get to keep new people returning without running them off?

I have heard the handgun course is much more strict, and would like to experience that. Long ramble and I apologize. There were things I liked about the class, and some that I didn't. I think it had a lot to do with the issues I was having, so a lot of it was self induced misery.
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  #732  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mievil View Post
We had 64 people in our class.
this is just unacceptable
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  #733  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:32 PM
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Thanks for the synopsis.
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  #734  
Old 03-05-2013, 8:08 PM
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No problem. I don't want to seem like I'm bashing on them. I definitely had a lot of my own issues going on. But I 100% felt like there were too many people in the class for how many instructors were on hand.
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  #735  
Old 03-05-2013, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mievil View Post
No problem. I don't want to seem like I'm bashing on them. I definitely had a lot of my own issues going on. But I 100% felt like there were too many people in the class for how many instructors were on hand.
My last class (Handgun Master Prep) had way too many as well. I feel your pain. My relay was shooting the last part of the test in the dark. In any case, thanks for your review. I am thinking of shooting a HK 91 in the rifle class with irons. Did they give a reason for you to run a 50 yard zero on the AK? I get it for the AR platform, but I dont think it makes sense for your gun, or the HK for that matter. I will not change my zero on the HK as it is perfect at 200.
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  #736  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:11 PM
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I'm heading there with my wife on May 13 for a 2-day handgun.
Taking my middle son (14years old) along too.
Then heading out with a couple/few associates from work for the May 29th 2 Day Skill Builder.
then will be going in June with wife and at least 2 of the kids for another 4-day handgun
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  #737  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:18 PM
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Membership Type: Ambassador
Membership Date: Dec 2011
Courses Taken: 4DDH, 2D Handgun Skill Builder, 2 Day Advanced Tactical Handgun
Next Course: 3/18 - 2 Day Defensive Handgun - Gonna take the course with my support hand. Several other courses planned through the year.

Comments: This is the best training I have ever attended. I'm going to be making frequent trips to this facility as long as I can. For those who have not been, I highly recommend going.
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  #738  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mievil View Post
No problem. I don't want to seem like I'm bashing on them. I definitely had a lot of my own issues going on. But I 100% felt like there were too many people in the class for how many instructors were on hand.
Thanks for the good and honest write up. Using an unfamiliar platform in a 4 day course takes some guts and perseverance. Too bad you did not get more personal attention due to the large class. Kudos for working through your problems and glad you still got something out of the training which only goes to show that you are a good student.
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  #739  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
I'm heading there with my wife on May 13 for a 2-day handgun.
Taking my middle son (14years old) along too.
Then heading out with a couple/few associates from work for the May 29th 2 Day Skill Builder.
then will be going in June with wife and at least 2 of the kids for another 4-day handgun

Is that all? Quit slacking!
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  #740  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missiondude View Post
Did they give a reason for you to run a 50 yard zero on the AK? I get it for the AR platform, but I dont think it makes sense for your gun, or the HK for that matter. I will not change my zero on the HK as it is perfect at 200.
If you have your rifle dialed in, I would just leave it as well.

Our class had 64, IIRC, 58 of those were ARs. I would guess that since the class obviously was designed around the AR platform, that's what they run it for. I don't think they'd be able to do a separate zeroing set for every rifle that wasn't an AR or it would take too long.

In fact, as I was talking to one of the ROs he actually mentioned that he had a handout he was going to print for me that had the instructions for how to operate the AK including zeroing, which he would print out and bring to me. I asked the 3rd day and 4th day if he had brought it and he said he was too busy, which I totally understand. But he said he thought it was supposed to be from 14m, which seems a little crazy to me.

I'm taking the 4 day handgun in Apr so I hope to learn more trigger control there, and hopefully some patience in the next month......yeah right. I'll definitely return for a rifle class with the AR, and was actually told by the 1 DG we had that a 2 day skill builder would be better to take. He started with a 2 day Prac Rifle, then followed with a skill builder, then ended with the 4 day which he DG'd in.
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  #741  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:00 PM
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BTW, rental ARs were given Independance ammo, which according to my coach, was about $0.71/rd. There was no on site sales of 9mm or .223, and the van on the corner was only there the first day of the weekend course, and not the first day of the weekday course.

Motto is, bring your own ammo.
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  #742  
Old 03-07-2013, 9:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Is that all? Quit slacking!
Lol
Haven't decided if that's all or not
Depends a great deal on ammo availability after that, I don't have enough ammo in reserve to do much more, that's one of the other compelling reason for me to have used my 9mm conversion on the last trip, as I have more of that in reserve to accommodate
For 3 people on 2-day handgun then a skill builder, that's close to 1200 rounds
Then family of 6 on a 4-day will be 3600 rounds more
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Last edited by Tripper; 03-07-2013 at 10:06 AM..
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  #743  
Old 03-07-2013, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mievil View Post
BTW, rental ARs were given Independance ammo, which according to my coach, was about $0.71/rd. There was no on site sales of 9mm or .223, and the van on the corner was only there the first day of the weekend course, and not the first day of the weekday course.

Motto is, bring your own ammo.
Ammo bunker on site
Had 9/40 at 21$ per box of 50 I think
Didn't notice 223 price, it just surprised me that 9 and 40 were same price


Didn't notice the price of 223
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  #744  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:01 AM
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Hmmmm.....no 9mm or .223 available to non-rentals when we were there this weekend. At least when we inquired on the morning of 3/1. Maybe I didn't ask the right questions.
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  #745  
Old 03-07-2013, 2:05 PM
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My visit was the week before that
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  #746  
Old 03-11-2013, 8:40 PM
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Just saw this on the At Home Training Web Site when you try and order the student video to watch at home:

NOTE 2: If you are a Certified Ambassador, your rental is free, but you must still order the rental like normal. It will simply put it in your cart as $0.00.

So Ambassadors and maybe other members are now able to watch the At Home Training Student videos for FREE!

https://athometraining.frontsight.com/login.php
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  #747  
Old 03-12-2013, 8:46 AM
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Thanks Ace
Good to know
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  #748  
Old 03-12-2013, 2:34 PM
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Factory reloads but not hand reloads are now approved for use at Front Sight.

See http://www.stockpiledefensefsnv.com/qanda.php

Scroll down to the bottom of their FAQ page.
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  #749  
Old 03-12-2013, 3:05 PM
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So how do they know if its factory or not?
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Old 03-12-2013, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
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So how do they know if its factory or not?
They check your ammo and firearm on Day 1 when you check in.
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  #751  
Old 03-12-2013, 3:20 PM
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I guess I meant what do factory reloads have that handloaded ammo doesn't?
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Old 03-12-2013, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
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I guess I meant what do factory reloads have that handloaded ammo doesn't?
Hopefully a solid company, deep pockets, and lots of liability insurance.
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  #753  
Old 03-12-2013, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeiseGuy View Post
I guess I meant what do factory reloads have that handloaded ammo doesn't?
Standardized manufacturing process and QC to meet S.A.A.M.I. specification.

See:

http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/1951.htm
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  #754  
Old 03-12-2013, 3:32 PM
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So there's no physical way to identify if its factory or hand loaded reloads?
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  #755  
Old 03-12-2013, 3:37 PM
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I wonder what Front Sight would do if I showed up with some of that plastic training ammo for my SAR-8? I guess I would take my brass ammo to inspection, then change over on the range for 50 yard and closer shots. $.14 a round instead of $.85...
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  #756  
Old 03-12-2013, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Just saw this on the At Home Training Web Site when you try and order the student video to watch at home:

NOTE 2: If you are a Certified Ambassador, your rental is free, but you must still order the rental like normal. It will simply put it in your cart as $0.00.

So Ambassadors and maybe other members are now able to watch the At Home Training Student videos for FREE!

https://athometraining.frontsight.com/login.php
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  #757  
Old 03-12-2013, 8:14 PM
moa moa is offline
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Just a quick question. I have never been to Front Sight and being that I reload, what happens to all of the brass? Is there a way of bring back the same quantity that you have shot? Do they sell used brass?
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  #758  
Old 03-12-2013, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moa View Post
Just a quick question. I have never been to Front Sight and being that I reload, what happens to all of the brass? Is there a way of bring back the same quantity that you have shot? Do they sell used brass?
Thanks
They do not sell brass. They do not allow you to pick up your brass. You can get away with some of it if nobody is looking, though I've heard they have cameras mounted on the tower and may see you.

An outside person/company comes in to pick up the brass. FS receives a portion of the revenue.

Last edited by DRM6000; 03-12-2013 at 11:35 PM..
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Old 03-13-2013, 5:52 AM
David Baldovin David Baldovin is offline
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Has anyone hosted an at home dry fire class? I am hosting one 23MAR13 and would appreciate any lessons learned.
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Old 03-13-2013, 6:08 AM
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If you shoot precision rifle 1 or 2, you can shoot reloads and pick up all your brass, other classes no.

Good luck with the home course, have not done it yet, wife not on board with it yet.
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