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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

View Poll Results: Rangers vs. SEALs
Rangers: "Rangers Lead The Way!" 86 22.51%
SEALs: "You can run, but you can't hide". "Justice has been done". 296 77.49%
Voters: 382. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 12-02-2011, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
Haha, probably not going to see all that many actual pictures from the field, but you can read about them in non-fiction books. There are actually several former Air Force Commandos here on Calguns.net.

Kill Bin Laden, The Guts to Try, and Roberts Ridge all discuss the contributions of Air Force Special Operations to other more well known Special Opertions units. Kill Bin Laden (one of my favorite books) has Air Force guys deployed with Delta Force. Only breifly discusses them and they are from a unit I'd never heard of...which in itself is surprising since I'm an Air Force guy. The Guts to Try (if I am thinking of the right book) goes into considerable detail about USAF Special Operations including the Panama Operation where the Pararescue guy continued working on Rangers and Seals while taking fire and getting hit a couple times. Roberts Ridge talks about a Seal Team that had a Combat Controller assigned to them when a seal fell out of the helicopter onto a ridge infested with Taliban and their failed attempt to rescue him (everyone on the team was killed in the rescue attempt).

There are several Hollywood movies about the Seal Team (don't know the number) that is open to other services. The movies are fiction but the team exists. [I]GI Jane /I] and Behind Enemy Lines 2 come to mind. Both have Army Guys in the Seal Team. Something that is easy to miss if you were not paying close attention.

I deployed with the Ranger Unit that was open to other services back when I was a young airman. The Air Force team member handed me a card and told me to contact him when we got back to the states if I was interested. The process just to apply was complicated. You had to be a certain rank, certain age, come from a needed specialty (open to more of them than you would think), and be recommended by a supervisor who if you were any good probably would be hesitant to let you go. Sadly my vision disqualified me right out of the gate. I had a waiver just to be in the unit I was in. But I can take a small measure of pride in the fact that somebody in that community was impressed with me enough to hand me his card...and that I got to work with those guys at all, even if only in a VERY minor supporting role.
Did you ever end up keeping that card? Did it possess any sentimental value to you?
  #42  
Old 12-02-2011, 2:18 PM
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taking down oil rig- SEALS
taking a mountain top - DELTA
  #43  
Old 12-02-2011, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RMP91 View Post
Did you ever end up keeping that card? Did it possess any sentimental value to you?
No, didn't keep it. Was just a nice memory. One of many. I have some cards of State Department, PMC and Law Enforcement guys I've met over the years, and have become very close friends with many of them. Not because I think they are cool and want to hero worship them, but because they are great guys and great customers. Plus when you are into shooting it helps to train with guys who are night and day better than you are. Pushes you to train hard and get better.

Didn't keep much from my military days beyond the usual stuff you send home for Mom & Pops to store for you - all of which I cherish now. Didn't take enough pictures. Didn't keep a journal so dates, places, and names get jumbled when I try and remember them all. Didn't keep each one of my deployment orders so I could have a paper trail of all the really cool places Uncle Sam sent me (only permanent duty stations and major campaigns go on the DD214, so 90% of what I did in the military I can't really prove except to show the few pictures I do have or say talk to so and so who was there with me - but it's not like I am trying to pass myself off as a Seal or Ranger. I pushed pallets and planned how to load the aircraft so it wouldn't crash. Boring stuff by comparison. Not exactly John Wayne Hero stuff. But I got to do it in some really cool places and I did it for Seals, Rangers, Marine Recon, etc. Honestly I was just happy to serve. I really enjoyed my time in the military, especially the first few years when they let me see the world. The desk job that came later kinda sucked.

I didn't really get it at the time. I didn't get that it wouldn't last forever and that one day I would want that stuff. Paperwork, pictures, journals, etc was all just stuff I had to store in a tiny little dorm room I never actually got to see...because I was always deployed. I didn't know I would actually want that stuff someday.

I do have a somewhat amusing story about a Seal. We were unloading all their gear off their aircraft. We deploy with a spartan crew. No more than two guys from each specialty to run an airfield - which is usually just a bunch of tents on flat terrain or some abandoned airfield we've temporarily taken over. When you're not doing your job you assist another team member with his (OJT baby) but even then we often need the assistance of the operators we are working for. We're there mostly to make sure there is a supervisor who has training on the task at hand to make sure nobody breaks the aircraft. That is not to say you could just stand there and tell people what to do. It is just that often times it was a five or ten man job, and we needed the extra bodies. In any case, the rest of his team was eager to help so they could make sure there equipment stayed in good condition and then go hit the rack. But this butter bar was too busy reading his paperback novel to lend a hand, and they had a lot of heavy back breaking equipment with them. Which of course pissed off his team since they got stuck picking up his slack, and gave us something to make fun of him for. The book was one of those romance novels with Fabio on the cover. From then on the Seal was Lt. Fabio. Everyone, including us, called him that to his face. He was totally indifferent about it. He even answered to it. In any case, it kept us entertained.

Lt. Fabio is just one of the many reasons I sort of laugh when people talk about the Special Operations guys. They have this image in their head of the kind of people they are. What they should look like. How they should act. What their motivations for doing what they do are. It rarely holds up to the reality. There are all kinds of different personalities in those career fields. Some are exactly what you would expect. Super fit both mentally and physically and the total hero types that belong in movies. But I have also seen flat out obese 300lbs Green Berets who look like they would die of a heart attack at any second - yet somehow they were able to pass selection and do their jobs just as well as the Captain America types. There are all kinds of exceptions to the stereotype out there. So many they are almost the rule. All kinds of people you would never believe were an elite warrior are actually the real deal. You just never know.

Don't get me wrong. I respect them all, even the jerks like Lt. Fabio. I just don't think they are picture perfect superheros. They're people.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-02-2011 at 3:44 PM..
  #44  
Old 12-02-2011, 9:26 PM
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I thought it was the Rangers who were top of the line in the Army? GBs a close second?
WOW are you serious? And you're going to join the Army in 2014, good thing it's 2014 gives you LOTS of time to unthink whatever got you thinking the way you did. You can be an admin person or some other non combat job and still be a "Ranger" in the 75th.

Watch black hawk down, you see those guys that don't have a high and tight? Those guys are called Delta Force.

How about to study hard and make sure to do all your homework in HS first? You do realize it's harder to get in the military now plus with the way you're thinking, I don't know what other ideas you got.

You should at least visit the military sites and study up before making some poll about this type of crap.

Last edited by Beagle; 12-02-2011 at 9:33 PM..
  #45  
Old 12-02-2011, 9:50 PM
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Rangers are an interesting bunch. The most interesting out of all the Special Operations Community. Watch saving private Ryan. The scene where Capt. John Miller tells his men what his day job was before the war. That's not typical of Rangers but you'll get the idea. Want to know what a Ranger feels like, drink an IPA. Ranger IPA, its a real beer.
I'm not a Ranger but I do know a few.

All SOC operators are the best at what they do. I have a lot of admiration for all of them. They are Special Operations.
  #46  
Old 12-02-2011, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RMP91 View Post
Or would it be too close to call considering they are both Special Operations groups and pretty much have equal training and adaptability?
Let me break it down for you

Army Ranger Training = 61 days (8 weeks)

Navy Seals Training: (about a whole year)
BUD/S= 24 weeks
SEAL Qualification Training program= 26 weeks

Yes they both have very unique missions.
  #47  
Old 12-02-2011, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
WOW are you serious? And you're going to join the Army in 2014, good thing it's 2014 gives you LOTS of time to unthink whatever got you thinking the way you did. You can be an admin person or some other non combat job and still be a "Ranger" in the 75th.

Watch black hawk down, you see those guys that don't have a high and tight? Those guys are called Delta Force.

How about to study hard and make sure to do all your homework in HS first? You do realize it's harder to get in the military now plus with the way you're thinking, I don't know what other ideas you got.

You should at least visit the military sites and study up before making some poll about this type of crap.
I made this thread for fun... My enlistment in 2014 is a done deal, and I have another year of college left.

Calm down a bit...
  #48  
Old 12-02-2011, 11:03 PM
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These guys!!! They will kick your butt!!!

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  #49  
Old 12-02-2011, 11:51 PM
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Depends. Experience, specialty, etc.

I say on average the SEAL would win simply because of the quality of training. In a maritime setting the SEAL would have the advantage. He would also have the advantage working as a team. The bond between SEALs is a very big deal.

These are semi-educated guesses.

Last edited by Ahmad; 12-02-2011 at 11:54 PM..
  #50  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:19 AM
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Seals definitly...rangers are just specialized infantry.... now army special forces vs seals ....... better match up
  #51  
Old 12-03-2011, 2:44 AM
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How about Force Recon they are some pretty tough guys too?

I was 4 th ANGLICO Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Company, we specialized in coordinating artillery, naval gunfire, close air support / air strikes supporting all branches of the military and allied forces too. We sometime had Seal team, Special forces British commandos and other allied special operation units training with us and often had the opportunity to train with them at their schools too. We had a lot of options on schools like UDT, Mountain warfare, Desert warfare, Jump school, training in special extraction methods, survival training and a lot of cross training with other branches of the military.

But if we put all these guys out there and let them try and kill each others by using what they do best I think ANGLICO would win because we could bring down "Lighning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea" ... lol

The real truth is all special ops groups have their own specialty and combined we have the most effective force on the planet I sure am glad we're on the same team...
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Last edited by tozan; 12-03-2011 at 4:26 AM..
  #52  
Old 12-03-2011, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tozan View Post
How about Force Recon they are some pretty tough guys too?

I was 4 th ANGLICO Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Company, we specialized in coordinating artillery, naval gunfire, close air support / air strikes supporting all branches of the military and allied forces too. We sometime had Seal team, Special forces British commandos and other allied special operation units training with us and often had the opportunity to train with them at their schools too. We had a lot of options on schools like UDT, Mountain warfare, Desert warfare, Jump school, training in special extraction methods, survival training and a lot of cross training with other branches of the military.

But if we put all these guys out there and let them try and kill each others by using what they do best I think ANGLICO would win because we could bring down "Lighning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea" ... lol

The real truth is all special ops groups have their own specialty and combined we have the most effective force on the planet I sure am glad we're on the same team...
SBS? or just regular commandos? Thoughts opinions?
  #53  
Old 12-03-2011, 8:33 AM
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Seals. Not even a comparison. Better training, better gear, better......everything.

I have a buddy who was a ranger in the 82nd and said the seals are pretty much the best. Being a ranger, I take his word on that.
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  #54  
Old 12-03-2011, 8:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RMP91 View Post
I thought it was the Rangers who were top of the line in the Army? GBs a close second?
I always thought it was delta at the top, then green berets, then rangers

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Old 12-03-2011, 9:37 AM
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I was under the same impression as Dan.
  #56  
Old 12-03-2011, 11:42 AM
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Depends on what perks and kill streaks they were using.
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  #57  
Old 12-03-2011, 2:00 PM
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after just reading SEAL Team Six: Memoirs of an Elite Navy SEAL Sniper, I would have to say SEALS. and yes DELTA is more elite than Rangers.
  #58  
Old 12-03-2011, 4:59 PM
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There is so much misinformation in this thread I don't even know where to start...
  #59  
Old 12-03-2011, 7:21 PM
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SBS? or just regular commandos? Thoughts opinions?
I am not sure what the ref SBS is and to be honest after 30 some years I can't remember the unit details.
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  #60  
Old 12-03-2011, 10:05 PM
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There is so much misinformation in this thread I don't even know where to start...
I think you are very correct... lol OK this is a brief rundown and does not contain all the details. There are a lot of special units out there and as I posted before we can hardly pit one against the other and come up with a who is the baddest... lol

I was AGLICO and ANGLICO units have different training and specialties that make one group better suited for one type of mission and others better suited for another mission. Would 4 th ANG consider ourselves to be better than 2 nd ANG of course not! OK we might kid each other over a beer... lol

OK whos who in the US Army

Who is a Ranger?
1. A graduate of the Ranger school (Lets call this Level 1) most often they go on to be in a regular infantry unit and there are thousands of them.

2. Any personnel assigned to the Ranger school (this could be a clerk with no training or an instructor with advanced training)

3. A member of one of the Ranger battalions (a Ranger with more training than a type 1 guy above.) who is a member of a light infintry unit that can be used in special missions.

The following people most likely have had more than 4 years of college and several of the guys I have known had PHD's and spoke at least two languages or more.

4. Special Forces AKA Green Barret or "The Unit" is someone who most likely went to Ranger school and a lot more specialized training and is now trained to do even more specialized missions depending on what SF group they are a member of they may also have been a member of a Ranger bat. (3 above)

5. Delta to get here you most likely have gone through Ranger school too and may have been Special Forces and then got into Delta where they received even more training, certainly more trained than a Ranger but some of that training may not make them a better killing machine but better at their respective types of missions or they could be a much better killing machine too.

6. MAC / SOG they are usually recruited from one of the above groups and also get even more specialized training for their missions.

Navy
There are several types of specialized training units in the Navy but the Seal team is the only one I will comment on right now..

Seal team members all start off with the same training then various Seal teams have specialized missions (comparable to 4 5 and 6 above) that can make one unit better suited for a number of different types of missions. It is my opinion most of them would not consider themselves to be badder than another Seal team and some may switch from one team to another during their carer.

FINAL WORD: All of these and other unmentioned units will be better suited to one type of mission but not another and no one unit should be rated as the baddest so the OPs question can not be answered without specifying the exact mission and to put one unit against another would not be relative unless they have the same mission training....

And the OP would not be realistic to think he can just become one of them, to become one of the above takes hard work commitment and also good luck.



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  #61  
Old 12-03-2011, 10:58 PM
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Is this a real post? How about Transformers versus Gobots? Maximus Prime versus whoever TF the evil robot is? Han Solo versus Guido? Edward versus Jacob? Harry Potter versus Veldimort? Dracula versus the wolfman?
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Old 12-05-2011, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tozan View Post
I am not sure what the ref SBS is and to be honest after 30 some years I can't remember the unit details.
SBS = Special boat squadron. I dont think they were called that 30 years ago but basically very specialized Commandos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Boat_Service
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Old 12-05-2011, 1:27 PM
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Depends on what perks and kill streaks they were using.
LMFAO

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Old 12-05-2011, 4:10 PM
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What side? Which ever one that has E-7 Murphy on their team.
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Old 12-05-2011, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMP91 View Post
Who would win in a one-on-one or squad-based fight?
Without a doubt:

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Old 12-05-2011, 5:52 PM
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I've worked with both...hands down SEALs
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Old 12-05-2011, 6:33 PM
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I'll tell you who is going to win.

God.
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Old 12-11-2011, 2:02 AM
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Not.Sure.If.Serious....
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:30 AM
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Navy Seals should be compare to Green Beret,not Army Rangers
This. The Green Berets are a closer match to Navy SEALs than the Rangers. The Green Berets do the same work that a platoon does with 6 men.

Rangers are specialized infantry- being a Navy SEAL or a Green Beret requires more training, more intelligence, and more difficult missions.
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Old 12-11-2011, 2:57 PM
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how come the national guard has special forces but no rangers? seriously
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Old 12-11-2011, 4:37 PM
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I always thought it was delta at the top, then green berets, then rangers

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exactly!

lame poll
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Old 12-12-2011, 8:08 PM
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This thread makes me chortle.
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Old 12-14-2011, 7:08 AM
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Whiskey Whiskey took out every body! Only been shot once.
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Old 12-14-2011, 5:09 PM
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I've worked with both, been attached to one as a liaison and trained for the other.

I've also been to one of their schools for 65 days of joy in Fort Benning, Georgia.

Every day, all day, several times a day, NSW will bring it home. Rangers are good troops, but on the average, equal terrain, the rustpickers will dominate.

They are undisciplined. They're arrogant. They're many things.

*But* they do get *completely* styled on schools, training, trigger time. The amount of ammo the trident boys burn through is staggering. The shape they're in is far better than most rangers, any day of the week. The quality and age of equipment, the advanced tactics, it's all far better than rangers get anytime. What this means is that they utilize their time far more efficiently than any special infantry unit ever does.

I went to jump school with them at Benning. I did rubber ducky with them. I enjoyed some quality time in Bridgeport with them as well. Honduras, Thailand, Korea... and spent some quality time in the sandpit with them.

There's also a difference between "rating" or "earning" a ranger tab versus a trident. Ranger school was no small feat; you don't get to earn a trident unless you've been working in a team for a while for the billet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tozan View Post
I was 4th ANGLICO Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Company, we specialized in coordinating artillery, naval gunfire, close air support / air strikes supporting all branches of the military and allied forces too.
Cool! I started out at 1st Anglico and then moved over to Force at Pendleton, and then back to Anglico when I went reserve under Krom and Bushy when 3rd Anglico was still in Long Beach ...a looong time ago. There was no 4th Anglico then; and 4th Force was out of New Mexico. I was also in the SRIG before getting commissioned.

I'd love to say that Force would kick their butts and it would come close (they are still Navy Rustpickers), but in all reality, they're good dudes and train a lot more than Marine Corps budget allows.
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Old 12-22-2011, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
Depends on the fight, the terrain, the objective, and which Ranger and Seal units you are talking about. Most are equal in training (despite the hype surround the Seals). For every Seal unit that does something, there is an Army unit that does pretty much the same thing. The Seal Team formerly known as Seal Team Six has the Army equivelent of Delta Force...who makes up Delta? Mostly Rangers.

There are exceptions to every rule, but to say Rangers just get their tab and are done with it while Seals continue with their training is inaccurate. It might be a little easier to get the tab than a trident (though I am not entirely convinced of that) but your life doesn't suddenly get easier once you have it. Not if you are actively serving as a Ranger in a Ranger unit.

The career path and life of a Ranger is almost identical to a Seal. Similar opportunities exist to shine or stall out. There are some very specialized Ranger units that do some very specialized things. Just like there are some very specialized Seal units that do some very specialized things.
Makes a lot of sense. Can't comment on this personally since I was a lowly 0311, but my bro was 75th Rangers, 2nd Battalion way back when. He spent 5-6 years in the Army. His training consisted of infantry school, jump school, Ranger school. Then when he was in his unit, he did mountain training, jungle training in Panama, amphibious training in Coronado, desert training in Yakima, arctic training in Alaska, SERE school run by green beanies, some sort of tracking school. He also knew a lot about demolitions and improvised explosives. He had a high level of knowledge of communist firearms, landmines, etc, etc. He would freak me out, we'd watch movies and he'd tell me what the mines were, if some terrorists bomb was wired correctly, etc, etc. He's an expert in infantry operations. He didn't care for arctic training and climbing cliffs upside down, but he liked the rest of it.

To compare Rangers to SEALs is illogical. In what situation? Hand to hand? A toss up, depends on the guy. Assassinate someone? SEALs are probably better. Ambush someone? Rangers are probably better. Take a ship? SEALs. Take someone's HQ? Rangers. Blow up an oil rig? SEALs. Blow up a mountain top installation? Rangers.

Stupid thread.
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  #76  
Old 12-22-2011, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 0351USMC View Post
Navy Seals should be compare to Green Beret,not Army Rangers
+1
Army Rangers are semi-SOF whereas SEALs and Army SOF (Green Berets) are fully SOF. Ranger is cool and all but they tend to be used in support roles for higher level SOF (ex. Rangers provided cover for Delta in the Battle of Mogadishu).
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  #77  
Old 12-22-2011, 10:23 PM
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I'd venture a simplistic guess and do this:
1. Delta Force/Seal Team 6
2. Seals/Green Berets
3. Rangers/Recon
4. Infantry
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Old 01-05-2012, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by frankm View Post
I'd venture a simplistic guess and do this:
1. Delta Force/Seal Team 6
2. Seals/Green Berets
3. Rangers/Recon
4. Infantry
That's pretty much how I'd add it up.

Though in the end I'd say it's a silly question.

Thank God they're both on our team though
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Old 01-05-2012, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by frankm View Post
I'd venture a simplistic guess and do this:
1. Delta Force/Seal Team 6
2. Seals/Green Berets
3. Rangers/Recon
4. Infantry
4. Marine Infantry/Army Airborne
5. Army Infantry
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Old 01-05-2012, 8:00 PM
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Not like there are SEAL Regiments that make it a realistic "versus." Force on Force, if the SEAL's were discovered they'd be overwhelmed by attrition, though casualties would probably be lopsided in their favor, depending when/how contact was made.

Besides, a great Tank Leader once said that special forces got to ride the little bus. I'd put a Marine Regimental Combat Team against either. Organic combined arms FTW. Infantry, armor, artillery, rotary and fixed wing all in one package under one command.
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