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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 12-30-2011, 9:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
OAK-DEN is quite a hefty price, but the Denver market has always been one of those that is quite expen$$$ive... I may consider going, but it also depends on exactly when the Nordyke en banc orals are going to be held.

Erik.
I am going out there with the girlfriend to see the area and try to sell her on moving there in a few months. It'd be to rich for my blood to make the trip just to see the case but since I'm headed out there around that time anyway I might as well try to kill two birds with one stone. I'm still waiting on approval to see if that weekend works...
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  #162  
Old 12-30-2011, 9:53 AM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Absent more data, Amicus counsel will mean 1 from Brady, 1 from SAF/CGF, and 1 from NRA-CDF.

I expect SAF/CGF counsel to be Alan Gura, but it's early and everyone is gently confused by the court's order. What we can say is that this is unusual and means the court is taking the case very seriously which makes me cautiously optimistic.

I will be amused if this case, which CGF is covering the costs of and helped pull together, ends up being the first one up as it isn't directly in California but is part of the California permit strategy.

-Gene
I love it when a plan comes together.
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the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is
whether carrying arms is constitutionally protected. Objective standards and due process—not
Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura
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  #163  
Old 12-30-2011, 8:15 PM
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I love it when a plan comes together.
There are lots of reasons we fight on multiple fronts.

-Gene
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  #164  
Old 12-30-2011, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Absent more data, Amicus counsel will mean 1 from Brady, 1 from SAF/CGF, and 1 from NRA-CDF.

I expect SAF/CGF counsel to be Alan Gura, but it's early and everyone is gently confused by the court's order. What we can say is that this is unusual and means the court is taking the case very seriously which makes me cautiously optimistic.

I will be amused if this case, which CGF is covering the costs of and helped pull together, ends up being the first one up as it isn't directly in California but is part of the California permit strategy.

-Gene
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Originally Posted by J.D.Allen View Post
I love it when a plan comes together.


Us=The A Team. Denver, Colorado, and Brady/LCAV anti-gun crowd=General Tucco's crew. 10th Circuit Panel=Fighter Jet...

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 12-30-2011 at 9:40 PM..
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  #165  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:52 PM
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Us=The A Team. Denver, Colorado, and Brady/LCAV anti-gun crowd=General Tucco's crew. 10th Circuit Panel=Fighter Jet...
I seem to recall that once the black civil rights movement in the 1960's hit stride, you had a few race baiting white politicians who decried progress. Then they eventually lost office.

This is what you will see with our movement. And that is not conjecture - that is based on polling.


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .
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  #166  
Old 01-09-2012, 6:40 AM
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^ That cannot come soon enough.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
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  #167  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:16 PM
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Default Alan Gura will be arguing on behalf of SAF/State Orgs

Late yesterday, Alan Gura has sent an acknowledgement form to the 10th Circuit Clerk. He will be arguing on behalf of SAF, CGF, and other state organizations amici in Peterson v. Martinez.

01/26/2012 [9937594] Notice of appearance submitted by Alan Gura for Amici Curiae Buckeye Firearms Foundation, Calguns Foundation, Inc., Citizens Rights Action League, Commonwealth Second Amendment, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Hawaii Defense Foundation, Illinois Carry, Illinois State Rifle Association, Maine Open Carry Association, Maryland Shall Issue, Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation, Scope Inc., Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Stillwater Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc., West Virginia Citizens Defense League Inc. and Wisconsin Carry Inc. for court review. Certificate of Interested Parties: No. Served on 01/26/2012. Manner of Service: ECF/NDA.--[Edited 01/26/2012 by SDS to remove pdf from entry as the pleading has been filed] AG

01/26/2012 [9937605] Notice of appearance filed by Mr. Alan Gura for Wisconsin Carry Inc., West Virginia Citizens Defense League Inc., Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc., Stillwater Firearms Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Scope Inc., Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation, Maryland Shall Issue, Maine Open Carry Association, Illinois State Rifle Association, Illinois Carry, Hawaii Defense Foundation, Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Commonwealth Second Amendment, Citizens Rights Action League, Calguns Foundation, Inc. and Buckeye Firearms Foundation. CERT. OF INTERESTED PARTIES: n. Served on 01/26/2012. Manner of Service: ECF/NDA.

I'm looking forward to the "real argument" that will occur on March 19....

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 01-26-2012 at 11:23 PM..
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  #168  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:51 PM
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I've already got the time off work to be there. Of course the girlfriend took to long and couldn't get the time off though!!! Now everyone and their mother is involved! Just my luck.
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  #169  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:15 AM
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I'm likely flying there as well. That week is going to be action packed as the Nordyke oral arguments are that week as well.

-Gene
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  #170  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:20 AM
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Politely, is this watching history unfolding before us? There is an amazing amount of orgs in those notifications..
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They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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  #171  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
Politely, is this watching history unfolding before us? There is an amazing amount of orgs in those notifications..
Getting a substantial number of amicus briefs helps for a certiorari grant......
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  #172  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
Politely, is this watching history unfolding before us? There is an amazing amount of orgs in those notifications..
I'm just some schmoe on the internet, but IMHO... yes. History in the making indeed. More importantly, this seems to be just a precursor to the best part which is yet to come.
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  #173  
Old 01-27-2012, 3:38 AM
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I think it entirely possible that in future years the top three 2A cases cited will be Heller, McDonald, and Peterson v. Martinez.

And as to why so many organizations? People like Gray - he's an impressive guy!
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  #174  
Old 01-27-2012, 4:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Late yesterday, Alan Gura has sent an acknowledgement form to the 10th Circuit Clerk. He will be arguing on behalf of SAF, CGF, and other state organizations amici in Peterson v. Martinez.

01/26/2012 [9937594] Notice of appearance submitted by Alan Gura for Amici Curiae Buckeye Firearms Foundation, Calguns Foundation, Inc., Citizens Rights Action League, Commonwealth Second Amendment, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Hawaii Defense Foundation, Illinois Carry, Illinois State Rifle Association, Maine Open Carry Association, Maryland Shall Issue, Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation, Scope Inc., Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Stillwater Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc., West Virginia Citizens Defense League Inc. and Wisconsin Carry Inc. for court review. Certificate of Interested Parties: No. Served on 01/26/2012. Manner of Service: ECF/NDA.--[Edited 01/26/2012 by SDS to remove pdf from entry as the pleading has been filed] AG

01/26/2012 [9937605] Notice of appearance filed by Mr. Alan Gura for Wisconsin Carry Inc., West Virginia Citizens Defense League Inc., Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc., Stillwater Firearms Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Scope Inc., Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation, Maryland Shall Issue, Maine Open Carry Association, Illinois State Rifle Association, Illinois Carry, Hawaii Defense Foundation, Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Commonwealth Second Amendment, Citizens Rights Action League, Calguns Foundation, Inc. and Buckeye Firearms Foundation. CERT. OF INTERESTED PARTIES: n. Served on 01/26/2012. Manner of Service: ECF/NDA.

I'm looking forward to the "real argument" that will occur on March 19....
Congratulations Grey!!!

Good Luck and I hope you win big...for all of us!

markm
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  #175  
Old 01-27-2012, 5:32 AM
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Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
I think it entirely possible that in future years the top three 2A cases cited will be Heller, McDonald, and Peterson v. Martinez.

And as to why so many organizations? People like Gray - he's an impressive guy!
Reason is that SAF is in my backyard, and look at the states in the list...all of them are orgs from states where CO doesn't recognize their licenses....
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  #176  
Old 01-27-2012, 6:37 AM
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I like my reason better.

Your reason may be more rooted in fact - but I still like mine.
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  #177  
Old 01-27-2012, 7:09 AM
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Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
I think it entirely possible that in future years the top three 2A cases cited will be Heller, McDonald, and Peterson v. Martinez.
That's a little scary.....

Quote:
And as to why so many organizations? People like Gray - he's an impressive guy!
Read the brief which will show why....
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  #178  
Old 01-27-2012, 7:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Late yesterday, Alan Gura has sent an acknowledgement form to the 10th Circuit Clerk. He will be arguing on behalf of SAF, CGF, and other state organizations amici in Peterson v. Martinez.

01/26/2012 [9937594] Notice of appearance submitted by Alan Gura for Amici Curiae Buckeye Firearms Foundation, Calguns Foundation, Inc., Citizens Rights Action League, Commonwealth Second Amendment, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Hawaii Defense Foundation, Illinois Carry, Illinois State Rifle Association, Maine Open Carry Association, Maryland Shall Issue, Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation, Scope Inc., Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Stillwater Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc., West Virginia Citizens Defense League Inc. and Wisconsin Carry Inc. for court review. Certificate of Interested Parties: No. Served on 01/26/2012. Manner of Service: ECF/NDA.--[Edited 01/26/2012 by SDS to remove pdf from entry as the pleading has been filed] AG

01/26/2012 [9937605] Notice of appearance filed by Mr. Alan Gura for Wisconsin Carry Inc., West Virginia Citizens Defense League Inc., Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc., Stillwater Firearms Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Inc., Scope Inc., Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation, Maryland Shall Issue, Maine Open Carry Association, Illinois State Rifle Association, Illinois Carry, Hawaii Defense Foundation, Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Commonwealth Second Amendment, Citizens Rights Action League, Calguns Foundation, Inc. and Buckeye Firearms Foundation. CERT. OF INTERESTED PARTIES: n. Served on 01/26/2012. Manner of Service: ECF/NDA.

I'm looking forward to the "real argument" that will occur on March 19....
This will be good........
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  #179  
Old 01-27-2012, 7:43 AM
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Read the brief which will show why....
That doesn't preclude you being a nice and impressive guy...
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  #180  
Old 01-27-2012, 9:29 AM
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I was wondering why this case wasn't stayed pending Nordyke. Is it because it's in the 10th circuit and not the 9th?
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  #181  
Old 01-27-2012, 9:38 AM
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I was wondering why this case wasn't stayed pending Nordyke. Is it because it's in the 10th circuit and not the 9th?
That is correct. No Nordyke hold up....
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  #182  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I'm likely flying there as well. That week is going to be action packed as the Nordyke oral arguments are that week as well.

-Gene
If the arguments are on the same day, will the Court(s) accommodate for a different date?

I will ask for time off for Nordyke

Erik.
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  #183  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:34 AM
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"Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool that follows him?"-Obi Wan Kenobi

the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is
whether carrying arms is constitutionally protected. Objective standards and due process—not
Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura
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  #184  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:48 AM
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Go team!
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  #185  
Old 01-27-2012, 11:17 AM
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Cool. Shop for the cheapest CCW, and every state has to accept it, if they grant reciprocity to any other state.

If forced to accept permits from states with lesser/different/other standards, states might very well drop their reciprocity schemes and get in the business of selling non-resident permits. They might even impose requirements to visit their state for issuance.

Last edited by goldrush; 01-27-2012 at 11:20 AM..
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  #186  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by goldrush View Post
Cool. Shop for the cheapest CCW, and every state has to accept it, if they grant reciprocity to any other state.

If forced to accept permits from states with lesser/different/other standards, states might very well drop their reciprocity schemes and get in the business of selling non-resident permits. They might even impose requirements to visit their state for issuance.
I already visited the state to apply for the carry license in the first place. That is not at issue in this litigation particularly.

Also, the only "standard" being challenged here, at least on the reciprocity claim, is the home state resident reciprocity requirement as applied by Colorado. Home state requirements done by Florida and New Hampshire are constitutional because they offer non resident licenses.

South Carolina is the only other problem state (though their legislature may fix that this year) because they ban OC, require concealed carry, don't issue non resident licenses except to those who own land there, and the residents of 33 states are SOL.

one more thing: at CA10 level we're arguing about the appropriate ness the judges dismissal of the state party on the reciprocity claim. We're arguing the merits on the non resident license issuance. If CA10 orders issuance of the license....

How that translates into a future scenario you speak of, I have no idea.....

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 01-27-2012 at 12:28 PM..
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  #187  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
That is correct. No Nordyke hold up....
If Nordyke were in the 10th and Peterson were in the 9th, I'm sure the 9th would find some reason to stay the case pending Nordyke...

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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #188  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
If Nordyke were in the 10th and Peterson were in the 9th, I'm sure the 9th would find some reason to stay the case pending Nordyke...

That is humorous but doubtful…
The 9th doesn’t seem to care how other circuits have ruled, they craft their own bizarre logic to provide the Supreme Court with additional material to disregard.
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  #189  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
If Nordyke were in the 10th and Peterson were in the 9th, I'm sure the 9th would find some reason to stay the case pending Nordyke...

If the 9th circuit was just trying to stall out gun cases, it may find the ground being shifted underneath them...
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  #190  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:43 PM
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Here is hoping the 10th come back first, and favorably. It will be interesting to see how the 9th would wordsmith to try and avoid a circuit split.
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  #191  
Old 01-27-2012, 1:35 PM
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CA9 doesn't care about circuit splits...
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  #192  
Old 01-27-2012, 1:40 PM
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CA9 doesn't care about circuit splits...
Yes, but SCOTUS does....
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  #193  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Drivedabizness View Post
CA9 doesn't care about circuit splits...
But they do understand thier implications

-Gene
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  #194  
Old 01-27-2012, 11:04 PM
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I happen to have a round-trip ticket to Denver. Whatever shall I do with it?


http://store.calgunsfoundation.org/p...p/coin-001.htm

Bingham!

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  #195  
Old 01-27-2012, 11:29 PM
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I happen to have a round-trip ticket to Denver. Whatever shall I do with it?



-Brandon
Keep waiting for the lapel pins to ship?
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We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
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  #196  
Old 01-27-2012, 11:31 PM
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^That challenge coin looks awesome!
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  #197  
Old 01-28-2012, 3:42 AM
krucam krucam is offline
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The NRA CRDF is pushing for more argument time...

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01/27/2012 Open Document [9937898] Motion filed by Amici Curiae NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund, et al., to enlarge time for oral argument. Served on: 01/27/2012. Manner of service: ECF/NDA. MB
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  #198  
Old 01-28-2012, 4:55 AM
press1280 press1280 is offline
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The NRA CRDF is pushing for more argument time...
So they want to hitch themselves onto the case so they can claim victory just like McDonald.....
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:23 AM
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hoffmang hoffmang is offline
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So they want to hitch themselves onto the case so they can claim victory just like McDonald.....
No No! This is not ILA, but Civil Rights Defense Fund and this is a joint motion of all the Amici.

You can now read the motion here: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/pet...2012-01-27.pdf

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  #200  
Old 01-28-2012, 10:45 AM
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Gray Peterson Gray Peterson is offline
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So they want to hitch themselves onto the case so they can claim victory just like McDonald.....
This isn't ILA. This is the Civil Rights Defense Fund. Different org. Look them up...
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