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  #41  
Old 07-07-2007, 8:48 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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Pressure tested 7383 with heavy powder load.
870 gr with 128 gr of 7383-- All that could
be put in REM plastic and keep length to what
would feed from magazine of a 3" gun,
after it was roll crimped with tool in drillpress.
1513 fps-- 14700 psi. That is a slug 50%
heavier than factory Buckhammer at little
faster speed and at little less pressure.
Ignition perfect, cases fall out.
Love that $3 a lb powder.Ed
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  #42  
Old 07-08-2007, 4:29 PM
1norcalvarmintHunter 1norcalvarmintHunter is offline
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Geeze, how much does a NEF cost, or any other good shotguns to use for these hot loads?
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  #43  
Old 07-09-2007, 6:55 AM
sargenv sargenv is offline
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Ok, it was a large slug.. What use is it? How much recoil did it create?

That powder is specifically a very slow powder and I'm kind of surprised that you were able to ignite it, but with that heavy of a projectile, I guess you were able to make it work out. A standard one ounce slug (437.5 gr) has a standard velocity of about 1600 fps making approx 2480 ft/lb of energy. 14,700 is approaching the limits of a shotshell chamber, I'd prefer to keep mine under 12000 psi regardless of action type. 4422 ft/lbs is not too shabby if you can get it reliably. How many rounds have you fired or was this a one off thing?

Last edited by sargenv; 07-09-2007 at 7:05 AM..
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2007, 9:25 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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NEF Ultra slug gun is about 230 bucks. Now our loads are only for
modern alloy steel barrel guns, with medium to heavy barrels,
Our 14700 psi loads are little less than REM factory Buckhammer
loads sold to guys with modern guns for deer, hogs, bear, etc.
Most 3" magnum goose loads in 12ga are between 13-15,000 psi.
Modern plastic shotshells handle our and buckhammer loads fine.
We have fired many loads, no problem. The pressure testing
company has fired loads of over 25k psi and cases extract easy.
It depends on type of powder with real fast shotgun powders
causing more expansion at lower peak pressure than other slower
due to the sharp pressure spike affecting case before slug moves.
That powder though being slow on the chart within its working range,
is quite porous and bulky which allows for easy ignition.
Now that powder if run over its range of about 40k will go crazy.
Its powder sticks are porous like the 4759, only a little longer
sticks. As for heavy slug, recoil negligible in my NEF due to it
being weighted to 15 lbs. Now my NEF chamber is long for our long case
and hairy loads in long brass case do get interesting.Ed
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  #45  
Old 07-14-2007, 1:08 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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Finally able to make the
longer barrel improvement on
the 1887 12ga levergun.......
Rifled and heavy and 31"
long. After many months finally got
a barrel.Ed

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  #46  
Old 07-16-2007, 8:44 AM
1norcalvarmintHunter 1norcalvarmintHunter is offline
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Terminator gun...
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  #47  
Old 07-22-2007, 2:23 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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With NEF. Plastic cases, roll crimped slug
in drillpress. 82gr IMR 4227 1650 fps,
with 730gr, 78 gr 4227 with 800gr, 1600.
Expansion on cases show little more pressure
as full loads of 4759 and 600gr.
Ignition perfect with small primers.
Ejects cases fine. Burns clean.
Got a GEHA bolt 12ga to put a heavier
rifled barrel on to test. Ed
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  #48  
Old 07-29-2007, 6:52 PM
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Tested 870 gr in NEF with our long
brass case with big primer.I have NEF
with extra hammer spring for big primer.
Got 2000 fps and still able to extract case.
Would do little more, extractor needs
to be wider and set up positive.
Used 260gr of WC-860 and MagPro.
Could use RL-22, Rl-25, Retumbo, etc.
That's 7700 ft lbs.. I get 600 gr slug to
2300 plus in NEF, long case. so you can go
light or heavy.Ed
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  #49  
Old 08-15-2007, 4:19 PM
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More testing with 4227. Greg got little over 1500 fps in
3" plastic with 870 gr slug using 74-75 gr of 4227.
I did the same. Compared to much lighter
REM Buckhammer slug we have more speed. Almost all
the way through 5 ft bundle hardwood boards.
I have Mossy 695 as well as GEHA 12 gauge
to put heavy rifled barrels on. And my 87.
Will be checking Mossy 395
for a guy who wants to put on
a heavy barrel. Here is pic of 695 Mossberg
bolt action,with dinky barrel, and big rifled
long barrel for it.

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  #50  
Old 08-15-2007, 4:30 PM
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You should get in touch with "The Box O' Truth" guys and have them test penetration with THAT thing...

I bet there isn't too much "bullet resistant" stuff compared to THAT round!

Ive been following this development since the first posts were made on other boards....very cool!


J

P.S. Could you make a thinner profile barrel after the chamber to make it a little lighter, and could it be made with say a 22" barrel instead of a 30" ???
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  #51  
Old 08-19-2007, 5:31 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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The barrel could be thinner toward the muzzle,
but not less than an inch.The pressure curve of these
powders we are using needs barrels with thickness like
rifle barrels. Barrel could be shortened, but you get much
more muzzle blast and losing the weight more recoil.
The barrel in pic with mossberg is 1.35" diameter, and matches
the diameter of the reciever, Ed
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  #52  
Old 09-03-2007, 3:18 PM
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I tested in NEF, 3" cases, Alliant 2400 with
small primers, Fired ok at 75 deg but when
case cooled there was majority of misfires
and squib loads. Don't reccomend it..
That is also a test we do, cooling the load.
Here is picture of Mauser 12ga bolt action
GEHA next to a heavy barrel like I will put
on it.. Make a good slug gun.......It had the
thinnest barrel on any 12ga I've ever seen.Ed


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  #53  
Old 09-13-2007, 5:40 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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The 12GA From Hell, 700HE, and
700HE 3.25" is now on
Ammoguide, the last page of
cartridge list.Ed

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611
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  #54  
Old 09-13-2007, 7:43 PM
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I'm ready to see some video of one of these guns being fired. I would also like to see what happens when slug meets hog.

Have you shot for group size?

Come on lets see some action.
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  #55  
Old 09-17-2007, 3:11 PM
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Tankerman-- IN early part of thread is pics od
exploding 6 gallon water pail. Rob with his gun
and scope can stick them in one ragged hole at
50 yds. With Savage and peep sights and bad eyes
I can get 4 inch group. Some will be tried on deer
this fall, no hogs here.Ed.
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  #56  
Old 09-17-2007, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubel458 View Post
Tankerman-- IN early part of thread is pics od
exploding 6 gallon water pail. Rob with his gun
and scope can stick them in one ragged hole at
50 yds. With Savage and peep sights and bad eyes
I can get 4 inch group. Some will be tried on deer
this fall, no hogs here.Ed.
I should have been clear, I meant VIDEO. Please.
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  #57  
Old 09-17-2007, 10:59 PM
heavyrecoil heavyrecoil is online now
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Why wouldn't you just use a .458 Lott or .458 Win Mag? They offer similar ballistics/stopping power without worrying about blowing up some home-brewed gun. Have your rifles been used for any practical application yet?

Last edited by heavyrecoil; 09-18-2007 at 8:13 AM..
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  #58  
Old 10-03-2007, 3:37 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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We just like big bores, not medium ones.
Applcations so far are big holes easy to see,
and a few shotgun only hunters getting
the power of a 458 for their shooting uses.
We tested 3.5" plastic cases in NEF, small
primers. My chamber is lengthened for our
long brass case, so they work fine.....
With 600 gr slug, 105 gr of IMR 4227,
got 2100. Same slug, 180 gr, 7383 surplus,
got 2100 fps. That's 5800 ft lbs from
plastic shotgun cases.Ed
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  #59  
Old 10-20-2007, 2:44 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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Tested 600gr slug in 3.5" plastic case, got 2100 fps.
That is 5800 ft lbs from a plastic 12 ga case load.
Here is the Enfield I reamed out to feed 12 gauge and BMG
size cases. I added two rear bolt locking lugs, one the huge bolt
handle and another added that locks in rear bridge. The front lugs
still contact on their top 40 %. This is concept from earlier shown
Mauser shotgun conversions, where they were made from 98
Mausers, giving a bolt action 12ga.This one is chambered for
my belted 700H 3.25" case, as a load developement test gun.
Loads up to 825 gr at 2500 so far. Ed

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  #60  
Old 10-25-2007, 8:23 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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The three From Hell cartridges----
My 28GA FH, 2nd Our 12GA FH, can
you guess the 3rd?. What do readers think. Ed

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  #61  
Old 10-25-2007, 8:46 PM
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HOLLY CRAP..!!!! YOU SHOOT ANYTHING WITH THAT WILL EXPLODE FOR SURE ...KABOOM SHOLD BE ITS NAME...
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  #62  
Old 10-26-2007, 10:05 PM
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It is the 8GA From Hell, a real cartridge. 4.3 inch long
brass case. 8 ga shorter plastic case, plan on in same chamber.
The brass kiln gun case isn't as long as mine. Where do
you find the rare 8 ga brass kiln gun cases.
Looking now for guns or actions and barrels. I make it
from 20mm Suzy brass(20mm Hispano Suiza), by putting
on a 8ga size rim and reshaping like we did 12GA FH....Ed
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  #63  
Old 11-05-2007, 4:14 PM
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8ga, we gonna do a couple, first one a test
gun in an Enfield with rear locking lugs added.
All locking is in the rear, it is not exactly like
my 700HE one,as both lug seats gone in the
front like a Mauser 12ga shotgun.
May have a way to get barrels 'fast'---
fast being like 2 weeks, from the time I
have money to do it. And only about
150 bucks each.......Am working on it.
In pic you see long case sticking out of
the action, a couple 8ga plastic cases, a
couple of the 8ga kiln slugs, 3 oz and
hardened. Am looking for a slug built like the
Federal 10 ga one that has rounded nose and
hollow base, that fits bore tight, for smoothbore.
The barrels I am working deal on will be smoothbore.Ed


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  #64  
Old 11-09-2007, 9:56 PM
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Had a light barrel 87 12ga replica now
it is this Long Tom slug gun.....Ed

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  #65  
Old 11-19-2007, 3:43 PM
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Got an 8ga barrel blank being made now,
will be here end of the week.Found this
info on plastic 8ga kiln gun loads, they
load a frangible 710gr slug at 2300-
for 8300ft lbs, load 1275gr hard slug to
1700, 8100 ft lbs. We will outdo those easy
with our non-shotgun powder loads, in
a heavy barrel. We setup an Enfield for 8ga.
In the 87 long barreled gun we will be testing
Breneke slugs. Guys are reporting good accuracy
in smooth and rifled barrels. The pictured barrel
on 87 is smooth and we will see how the
slugs in pic stand some speed.Ed


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  #66  
Old 11-30-2007, 9:09 PM
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Tested 35" smooth barrel in 1887. Got couple
1 oz foster slugs over 2400, with 110gr
of 4227. 3" plastic case, regular primers.
This is a heavy barrel for that type of load,
don't do this in your 12ga skinny barrels.
The 28GA FH cases on the way.Chambering
bolt gun for it now..Ed
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  #67  
Old 12-12-2007, 9:55 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed
And going heavier in 87 got 600 grain
Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug
I took out of factory load over 1900.
Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630
gr. Tested in 3" plastic cases.

The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out
like I like them to as it comes from factory,
so I removed .015 from the hammer stop.
It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed
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  #68  
Old 12-23-2007, 5:18 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. Factory FED 765gr loads
are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus
and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600,
for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383.
Federal factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than
10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding
hollow base. With 7383 that gave another 150 fps.Fast starting
shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383.
The Federal factory load has 120gr of wads/seals about 1.4"
long. Better to replace with much more slower powder,
getting better velocity, still at low shotgun pressures.Ed
We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug
of some design. We roll crimped with crimper in drill press.
Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like
the factory loads. 3.5" plastic.Used one .050 wad.Ed
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  #69  
Old 12-23-2007, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubel458 View Post
10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. Factory FED 765gr loads
are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus
and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600,
for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383.
Federal factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than
10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding
hollow base. With 7383 that gave another 150 fps.Fast starting
shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383.
The Federal factory load has 120gr of wads/seals about 1.4"
long. Better to replace with much more slower powder,
getting better velocity, still at low shotgun pressures.Ed
We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug
of some design. We roll crimped with crimper in drill press.
Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like
the factory loads. 3.5" plastic.Used one .050 wad.Ed
just what I need for my 10ga shotgun, looking foward to the load tested with 4227.
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  #70  
Old 01-05-2008, 8:54 AM
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In 10GA NEF 110gr 4227 got 765gr slug
to 1800, ejected ok. If it was a really
heavy barrel it could do more.
Starting load 90gr. In Using the
7383 surplus at 150 gr, don't even have
to resize to fire 3 times. The 28GA FH
done and testing in next couple weeks.Ed
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  #71  
Old 01-09-2008, 6:02 PM
hubel458 hubel458 is offline
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Fired 28GA FH-- Cases extract easy.--It is
in bolt action Enfield. With 550gr jkt slug,
full load 150 gr of WC-860, got 1900 fps.
This will be slowest load and powder.
In picture is 3.25" brass 28ga cases, regular
28ga plastic case, jkt slugs, a 458Win
for comparison.Regular cases work also.Ed

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  #72  
Old 01-13-2008, 6:41 PM
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28ga cases are made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge,
Barrel is rifled with 4 grooves, 1-22 twist.
You could do one on Savage 210.Another
shotgun bolt action that would handle it
with little work, heavy barrel, is the
395-495-595-695 bolt action Mossberg.
Just to show that 28GA FH isn't puny, here is
picture of it next to a 505 Gibbs.Ed

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  #73  
Old 01-18-2008, 7:30 PM
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Here is picture and info on Royal
Arms' site for hopped up 12ga loads,
used in little cannons for bomb work.
Anyone got any of these fired that I could inspect to see how they are built.ED

http://www.royalarms.com/EOD/ammo/canonammo.gif
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  #74  
Old 01-28-2008, 5:39 AM
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I like the Savage 210 so I'm putting
a 700 barrel on one and chambering for
my 700H 3.25 case. Working on it now.
It is a straight belted case, .700 cal.
Should get the same energy levels as
the 12GA From Hell case in same action.
In pic is 700H case in the action.
There is guy building a 600 Nitro
in 210 also. Ed

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  #75  
Old 02-05-2008, 9:55 PM
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28GA FH research. Guy on forums suggested using 54cal
rifled barrels for 28ga as they are easy to get. I looked into
it and did some testing. It is ok as long as you keep bullet
about 400gr as most 54cal barrels are not super alloy.
You got to use the thick heavy ones also, being stronger.
And everyone with 28ga wants slugs and there is no slug loads
from factory, and to reload the heavier bullets we shouldn't use
these barrels or regular 28ga barrels with 600-700 gr slugs.
But there are couple dozen 54cal bullets out there
stocked all over the gunstore shelves, in weights from 300 to
450 gr. There are heavier but for 28GA FH on deer 400gr is
great. I tested the 405 gr copper plated Powerbelt brand, with
velocities from 2300 to 2800 plus fps. That's 6500 ft lbs.
The 54cal slugs load tight in the RMC 3.25" 28ga case fine by
sizing top a little tighter. Bullet obturates to fit .550 bore
as bullet is hitting target straight. A lot of 54cal barrels
go from 530 to 560. 54cal slugs range from .534 to .560"
There are different sizes of 28ga barrels and chokes,
so some where there is lighter 54cal slug that fits..
And with light slugs the pressure limits with the MRC brass
match top muzzle loading pressures, so these barrels will work.
And great thing is the 54cal barrel guys ain't allergic
to making long barrels. I've shot one MRC case 15 times and
still going strong...Ed
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  #76  
Old 02-12-2008, 10:35 AM
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28GA FH testing. 405 gr in 2.75" plastic case
got 1400. Tested the Great Plains 54cal
lubed slug, runs from 2200 to 2700. It is
by Hornady and its front band actually measures
.550" and hollowbase. They hit target straight.
Got a bunch of 415gr hollowbase coming that
are 548" from Dixie Gunworks. Only 26 cents each.
All will work in plastic or long brass
case. I found another .550 bbl and coming, and
it will go on a Mossberg bolt action
for the second 28GA FH to test.. Ed
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  #77  
Old 02-19-2008, 7:51 PM
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tested the 415 gr hollowbase slugs in 28GA FH long
brass case. These are ones that Dixie Gunworks sell
that they call their Sharps .548" slug. They all run
about .008 bigger than that so they make perfect tight
fit for .550" barrel, and I used a good lube on them
in the grooves. They are a little harder alloy slug than
the Powerbelts or Great Plains The 28ga shellholder
for our Lee, Lyman, Rcbs presses , we use, is from
RCBS for regular metallic press rams. For 28ga dies
Hollywood made some for metallic presses.Also for
sizing for bottom 2/3 of the brass case you can cut
top off of the 500J die.The slower powder loads don't
even have to have the bottom half sized, which
is great for a turned case. If we had drawn brass cases
we could get 11,000 ft lbs, in the Enfield, which we
don't really need for deer. 4-6000 ft lbs ok/deer ..Ed
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  #78  
Old 02-28-2008, 9:41 PM
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Here is picture of a jacketed hollowpoint
12ga slug a fellow is going to make for us.
We hope to have tooling set up this summer
we plan on. Next to it is a 600gr Dixie hardened
slug. First ones he will probably make will
be about 700-750 gr.Ed

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  #79  
Old 03-11-2008, 9:28 PM
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In the 87 Win Levergun, smooth barrel,
long barrel, using brass RMC 3" cases,
1 oz Brenneke KO slug to 2700 with 4227
powder. Shotgun primer. I will be getting
some 3.5" RMC brass that he will put a special
longer corner radius in, to allow faster loads
with less case expansion and easier resizing.
Should get same slug to 3000 and resize
easier also. With shotgun primer able to use
4227, and you WON"T have to rework hammer
or firing pin to do big primers.

Santa sent me 9 more PROP cases.Got 12 now.Ed

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  #80  
Old 03-12-2008, 6:46 PM
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Why go with a JHP? A 12 gauge slug already leaves a hell of a hole. Seems like hardcast would be much less expensive
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubel458 View Post
Here is picture of a jacketed hollowpoint
12ga slug a fellow is going to make for us.
We hope to have tooling set up this summer
we plan on. Next to it is a 600gr Dixie hardened
slug. First ones he will probably make will
be about 700-750 gr.Ed

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