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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #1  
Old 10-14-2010, 10:16 PM
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UPDATE (2015 Feb 16):
I ("Paladin") went to the KCSO's webpage (http://www.countyofkings.com/departm...-weapon-permit) and downloaded their Word document titled, "Application Packet for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW)". It says:

Citizens who show good cause for carrying a concealed weapon may be eligible. The Sheriff, giving consideration to the reasons stated in the application, will determine good cause. Good cause may be determined by a clear and present danger to the life of, or threat of great bodily injury to, the applicant, spouse, children, or other member of the applicant's immediate family, which cannot be adequately dealt with by existing law enforcement resources, and which danger cannot be reasonably avoided by alternative measures, and which danger would be significantly mitigated by the applicant's carrying of a concealed firearm. (emphasis added)

So, it sounds like Sheriff Robinson does not believe in supporting our 2nd A RKBA and is highly restrictive in his issuance of CCWs. IOW, average residents are highly unlikely to get approved for a CCW until Peruta is finalized.
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Last edited by Paladin; 08-13-2015 at 8:14 AM.. Reason: removed out of date info and edited title
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2010, 2:43 PM
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Side note about Kings County, I'm a resident of the City of Hanford, I was told I had to go through the City for get my CCW because I live in town? Is this another misconception that "they" can tell us to go to the City police instead the Sheriff?

For my situation it worked out in my favor, but I wonder about others...
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Old 10-22-2010, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Operator View Post
Side note about Kings County, I'm a resident of the City of Hanford, I was told I had to go through the City for get my CCW because I live in town? Is this another misconception that "they" can tell us to go to the City police instead the Sheriff?

For my situation it worked out in my favor, but I wonder about others...
Totally illegal. Anyone who's told they have to go through the City first should email us at ccw@calgunsfoundation.org.
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Old 10-22-2010, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Operator View Post
Side note about Kings County, I'm a resident of the City of Hanford, I was told I had to go through the City for get my CCW because I live in town? Is this another misconception that "they" can tell us to go to the City police instead the Sheriff?

For my situation it worked out in my favor, but I wonder about others...
I'm also a resident in Hanford, and was told that I must apply through the city.

It took them 6 or 7 months to process and approve me, but they did. I honestly thought they'd denied me and thrown my application in the round file, and was surprised when they finally contacted me. Something about no review committee meeting over the holidays.

They also specifically told me that "self defense" was NOT sufficient cause and that my wife would be wasting her time to apply.
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Old 10-30-2010, 4:03 PM
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They also specifically told me that "self defense" was NOT sufficient cause and that my wife would be wasting her time to apply.
With the movement and activity and overall change we've seen in CCW issuing policies in some parts of CA, what advice does CGF have for my wife at this time?

Should she apply NOW to the Hanford city police department with "self defense" as her cause, or wait?
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Old 10-30-2010, 5:44 PM
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I would suggest holding off until we post the Kings County accepted good cause statements (within the next week or so).

Also, note that Kings is getting a new Sheriff (David Robinson). Since I'm not familiar with the HPD's policy and acceptable good cause, I can't speak to that agency at this point. I will be curious to see how Mr. Robinson will approach the issue of carry licensing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgg View Post
With the movement and activity and overall change we've seen in CCW issuing policies in some parts of CA, what advice does CGF have for my wife at this time?

Should she apply NOW to the Hanford city police department with "self defense" as her cause, or wait?
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Old 11-01-2010, 1:45 PM
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WildHawker, If you want to know more about HPD pm me I have a few contacts.
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Old 11-08-2010, 1:16 PM
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I'm in on this also.

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Old 11-17-2010, 10:41 PM
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I met with the Sheriff's Department about a year ago and had a very positive experience. I first met with Commander Amaroso who has since retired from the department and is now the Chief of Police for the newly founded Avenal Police Department. During my meeting with him he basically told me apply and we will give you one. Then he found out that I lived in city limits and said that I needed to apply with the Hanford Police Department first. He did say that the Sheriff's Office had the final say but that they did not like stepping on the HPD's toes so they wanted me to go through them first and if they denied me then for me to come back to the Sheriff's Department and they would get me one. So as soon as I left the Sheriff's Office I went straight to the HPD and picked up an application. I happened to see the Sheriff Chris Jordan leaving the HPD as I showed up so I stopped him and relayed to him all the information I was just told and he basically said yeah apply with them and if they deny you then come and see me and I will get you one. Well as I was getting my character reference letters lined up I got laid off from my job and I never put my application in. I am hoping to get started on the process again real soon.

As far as the new Sheriff David Robinson goes I'm not sold on his commitment to the 2nd Amendment yet. I e-mailed him during his campaign and he gave me a politicians' answer as far as I'm concerned. He pimped his NRA membership but didn't commit to shall issue. I'll post up our correspondence when I find it.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:50 PM
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This is my email to him:

Hi Mr. Robinson,

I am a resident of Hanford and very much interested in your bid for election. I have heard nothing but good things about you. However I am wondering what your stance is on CCW Permits?

Thanks,

xxx

Here is his reply:

Mr. xxx,

I do agree with issuing CCW's to the citizens. I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendement and a member of the NRA. With that said there is a process involved in getitng a CCW and I would adhere to the process. Just because someone applies does not mean they will get a CCW. There is great responsibility that comes with a CCW permit and I would make sure that those that are issued, are issued to responsible citiznes who have met the legal requirments for a CCW. I will be fair about issuing them, because I do understand that many people in the public do carry large amounts of cash, work in risky environments, deal with the criminal element at differnet times, etc. These and other "good cause" reasons will help me determine who will be approved for a CCW. I hope this helps. Thanks for the question. Dave



My initial reaction to his response was that if he so believes in the 2nd Amendment and is a member of the NRA why doesn't he just come out and say that he will be shall issue like many of the neighboring valley counties such as Madera, Fresno and Tulare. Then I thought well maybe he does really believe that and was just trying to play both sides of the fence incase I was an anti and this was a trap question. After reading it today, I think he was trying to give me hints possibly of things to list as a good cause based on how he worded that part of his response. I wish I would have pressed him on shall issue but I never responded because this was right around easter and i got distracted and forgot to reply back to him. Only time will tell I guess.
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2010, 10:57 PM
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It's such a shame that so many Sheriffs hide their disdain for our rights behind an NRA card and excuses like the above.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
It's such a shame that so many Sheriffs hide their disdain for our rights behind an NRA card and excuses like the above.

I agree completely. I ended up voting against him because of his reply and the previous positive conversation I had with Sheriff Jordan.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:30 PM
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I agree completely. I ended up voting against him because of his reply and the previous positive conversation I had with Sheriff Jordan.
Not that it particularly matters, but as a former Hanford resident I'm very disappointed in the Kings County Sheriff's Dept. and County Counsel's office.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:40 PM
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Not that it particularly matters, but as a former Hanford resident I'm very disappointed in the Kings County Sheriff's Dept. and County Counsel's office.

Have there been some unconstitutional things going on? I haven't heard anything bad besides the normal gripes that go along with any government agency.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:42 PM
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Have there been some unconstitutional things going on? I haven't heard anything bad besides the normal gripes that go along with any government agency.
Yep, a number of violations in KC.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:47 PM
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Yep, a number of violations in KC.
That sucks. Care to elaborate? Back to the subject of this thread though; what's the ETA on accepted good cause statements being published on the information page?
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:59 PM
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Should be tomorrow night, Friday latest. Scanning is done, now need to finish redactions and then they'll go up.

-Brandon
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Should be tomorrow night, Friday latest. Scanning is done, now need to finish redactions and then they'll go up.

-Brandon
Thanks; I look forward to reviewing them. If you're ever back visiting in Hanford PM me and I'll buy you a beer.
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Old 11-18-2010, 6:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PORCH View Post
I agree completely. I ended up voting against him because of his reply and the previous positive conversation I had with Sheriff Jordan.
Unfortunately, Jordan speaks well about his stance on issuing but when it comes time for him to 'rubber stamp', there's a bit of doublespeak. Quite a few people have still been issued to; but there are also quite a few upstanding members of the community, even some renewals, that have been denied.

Robinson's answer wreaks but as much as I don't like his CCW policy that's politically vague and eerily similar to the rest of the pretentious non-issuers, he should at least be competent to do the rest of the tasks of Sheriff and can likely be coerced to comply with State Law re: CCW policy. The same competence would be difficult to attribute to the current chair-holder.
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Old 11-18-2010, 9:14 AM
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I just came from the HPD I was trying to Amend my permit with a new gun, and remove an old one. Lady told me that the Fee to do this was $35. I told her never mind and called a friend at HPD and asked him to check on that, the receptionist didn't sound like she knew what she was talking about.

But after reading the PC12054 the max they can charge is $10 I'm sending that over to my friend at the PD.

There was also a sign on the window stating that their fee for a CCW is $160 and that a renewal is $35 (I could be remembering that one wrong). Now, I understand what the local fee should be, but, am I understanding correctly that there is a local fee not to exceed $100 and a state fee? (that is unknown to me) Plus the fingerprinting fee?

Same with renewal less the fingerprinting?

I'm sure all this will be clear when Wildhawker posts his info in the next day or so.
Many thanks Brandon.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:45 AM
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The licensing authority can charge no more than $100 per 2-year license for "local fees", period. They also collect money for the state ($95 for initial application, $52 for renewal), and can (at least for now) charge you the standard fingerprint fee for the *initial application only*. Once your prints have been taken and your PC12052 report application (standard CCW app) is sent in, they can never require you to be fingerprinted again (within the same jurisdiction).

Keep in mind the local fee for renewals is "$25 as adjusted" by the consumer price index:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PC 12054
(a) Each applicant for a new license or for the renewal of a
license shall pay at the time of filing his or her application a fee
determined by the Department of Justice not to exceed the
application processing costs of the Department of Justice for the
direct costs of furnishing the report required by Section 12052.
After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the
department for processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a
rate not to exceed the legislatively approved annual cost-of-living
adjustments for the department's budget. The officer receiving the
application and the fee shall transmit the fee, with the fingerprints
if required, to the Department of Justice. The licensing authority
of any city, city and county, or county may charge an additional fee
in an amount equal to the actual costs for processing the application
for a new license, excluding fingerprint and training costs, but in
no case to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), and shall transmit the
additional fee, if any, to the city, city and county, or county
treasury. The first 20 percent of this additional local fee may be
collected upon filing of the initial application. The balance of the
fee shall be collected only upon issuance of the license.
The licensing authority may charge an additional fee, not to
exceed twenty-five dollars ($25), for processing the application for
a license renewal, and shall transmit an additional fee, if any, to
the city, city and county, or county treasury. These local fees may
be increased at a rate not to exceed any increase in the California
Consumer Price Index as compiled and reported by the California
Department of Industrial Relations.
(b) In the case of an amended license pursuant to subdivision (f)
of Section 12050, the licensing authority of any city, city and
county, or county may charge a fee, not to exceed ten dollars ($10),
except that the fee may be increased at a rate not to exceed any
increase in the California Consumer Price Index as compiled and
reported by the California Department of Industrial Relations, for
processing the amended license and shall transmit the fee to the
city, city and county, or county treasury.
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/dow..._CCW_Guide.pdf


Quote:
Originally Posted by Operator View Post
I just came from the HPD I was trying to Amend my permit with a new gun, and remove an old one. Lady told me that the Fee to do this was $35. I told her never mind and called a friend at HPD and asked him to check on that, the receptionist didn't sound like she knew what she was talking about.

But after reading the PC12054 the max they can charge is $10 I'm sending that over to my friend at the PD.

There was also a sign on the window stating that their fee for a CCW is $160 and that a renewal is $35 (I could be remembering that one wrong). Now, I understand what the local fee should be, but, am I understanding correctly that there is a local fee not to exceed $100 and a state fee? (that is unknown to me) Plus the fingerprinting fee?

Same with renewal less the fingerprinting?

I'm sure all this will be clear when Wildhawker posts his info in the next day or so.
Many thanks Brandon.
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greasemonkey View Post
Unfortunately, Jordan speaks well about his stance on issuing but when it comes time for him to 'rubber stamp', there's a bit of doublespeak. Quite a few people have still been issued to; but there are also quite a few upstanding members of the community, even some renewals, that have been denied.

Robinson's answer wreaks but as much as I don't like his CCW policy that's politically vague and eerily similar to the rest of the pretentious non-issuers, he should at least be competent to do the rest of the tasks of Sheriff and can likely be coerced to comply with State Law re: CCW policy. The same competence would be difficult to attribute to the current chair-holder.

I hear you Greasemonkey. I know there were a lot of complaints about Jordan but I voted single issue on this based on my personal experiences. I hope that Robinson proves my initial feelings wrong. He comes from a great family and hopefully can be swayed with logical reasoning.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PORCH View Post
I hear you Greasemonkey. I know there were a lot of complaints about Jordan but I voted single issue on this based on my personal experiences. I hope that Robinson proves my initial feelings wrong. He comes from a great family and hopefully can be swayed with logical reasoning.
Completely understandable. I wonder how much of Jordan's backwards progress on CCW policy wasn't just due to City Counsel's influence, if his own legal counsel is telling him how things oughta be and he's uncertain, I can't blame him for heeding his counsel's advice. At least neither candidate was outright anti-gun, which should make it a bit easier to work with both. We've still got some time to work alongside Jordan and help set the tone with the rest of the office for when the new guy comes in.
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Old 11-18-2010, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Operator View Post
I just came from the HPD I was trying to Amend my permit with a new gun, and remove an old one. Lady told me that the Fee to do this was $35. I told her never mind and called a friend at HPD and asked him to check on that, the receptionist didn't sound like she knew what she was talking about.
Interesting. I have a new gun to add to my permit, just hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Please post back here with info when you get this resolved.



My wife's waiting for the good cause statements to put in her application.
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Old 11-18-2010, 2:46 PM
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So I sent an email to my friend, My friend is relativly high up in HPD, and for the record he is a great cop, and a great person that believes very much in CCW and helped me and supports other getting theirs. He is well thought of by almost anyone how knows him, and I won't be a part of anything that would make him look bad.

However, I am having a principle problem with the Fee's they charge and his response to me about them.

My email pointed out in a very respectful, non confrontational way, (and no, I won't be posting it here,) that I think they are not following the PC. I told him, I could be understanding it wrong, and that it's a small issue but, I didn't feel like giving the city permission to enforce the PC's they like and not follow the ones they don't.

The main point of his response was this;

"we are also allowed to charge for actual cost to process any request."

I don't see that idea anywhere in the PC so I'm sure it's what he's trained to say or he might be messing with me, because he can't single handedly change the fee structure...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind paying $35 bucks if the PC said I was supposed to, the fact is it doesn't, and nowhere that i know of does it say "charge what you want, you have the gun and the badge."



Wildhawker,
when you get KC's noncompliance issues together, you should see if the Hanford Sentential will print something on it. There have been a few things in the news over the last few months between the HPD and the city and how grants are being used. If they see this as being controversial, they might print a story on it.
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Last edited by Operator; 11-19-2010 at 11:43 AM.. Reason: Removed FUD
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Old 11-18-2010, 2:57 PM
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Operator, the $35 renewal is $25 "as adjusted". Not the hill to die on.
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Old 11-18-2010, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Operator, the $35 renewal is $25 "as adjusted". Not the hill to die on.
Sorry Brandon, I'm confused, the $35 I'm referring to is the $35 they want to charge me to Amend my permit. Which should be $10 right?

Even still, the point "not the hill to die on" is well taken, I will end up paying this because I want my new gun on my permit, and because I want to keep my friend at the PD.

My main concern is they are charging fees in direct conflict with the PC that they are supposed to enforce.
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Old 11-19-2010, 8:40 PM
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Good news. I spoke (in person) to my friend at the PD. He is a funny guy that likes to give me a hard time, so I asked him point blank if he even read all of my email. And I wasn't surprised when he said "no"

So I pulled it up on my phone and had him read the PC that I included, after he read it, he pulled out his phone and called the "records office" and informed the person that takes the money, they can't charge $35 for an amendment, they by law can only charge $10. And then went a little further and told them that they can only charge $25 for a renewal, Effective today.

When he hung up, he looked at me and said, "Ok, Done."

So turns out I was wrong in my earlier post, He does have the ability to change the fee's by himself.
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Old 11-20-2010, 7:59 AM
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Very cool Operator - that's grassroots results! Bravo!
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Old 11-20-2010, 1:45 PM
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Should be tomorrow night, Friday latest. Scanning is done, now need to finish redactions and then they'll go up.

-Brandon
Thanks for your efforts. Any updates? My wife is hoping to apply this week but she doesn't have the "good cause" I used so we're eager to see what has worked for others.

It's been a few months since they told us point blank "don't bother applying" ... change is in the air, thanks largely to CGF. :-)
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Old 11-20-2010, 7:23 PM
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Should be up tonight or tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
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Old 11-21-2010, 1:42 AM
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Thanks for your patience everyone. There are some open questions about the response documents we got from the Sheriff but while Brandon works on getting that straightened out I have uploaded a handful of the accepted Good Cause statements.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.p...tive/104-kings
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Old 11-21-2010, 1:42 AM
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Thanks for your patience everyone. There are some open questions about the response documents we got from the Sheriff but while Brandon works on getting that straightened out I have uploaded a handful of the accepted Good Cause statements.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.p...tive/104-kings

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/dow...8subset%29.pdf
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Old 11-21-2010, 8:22 AM
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Should be up tonight or tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
Dang, Todd, why the delay...have you guys been busy or something?

On page 5, 'self protection' is used as GC, followed by a brief explanation. Does 'self protection' stand alone for GC or does it still require justification?

Last edited by greasemonkey; 11-21-2010 at 8:25 AM..
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Old 11-21-2010, 11:18 AM
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While reading those good cause statements it's sure disappointing that good citizens have to ask permission to carry a gun. All are reasonable as well as solid reasons to carry yet something akin to groveling is required.

Shameful what this country has become.

Vick
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:06 PM
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@monkey the good cause is taken in whole you can't assume one portion alone would be adequate.

@vick. I had the same feeling. In many cases it seems like that are begging for the privilege to protect themselves.
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Old 11-22-2010, 5:33 PM
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Just spoke with a lady at the bank regarding CCW.
She said it took her husband 3 years to get his CCW, no reasons other than it just took bureaucratic time.

We have a couple of new folks fixing to sign onto Calguns

Vick
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Old 11-22-2010, 9:49 PM
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Thanks guys for all your hard work. Do you have any advice going forward?
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Old 11-22-2010, 9:56 PM
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Go ahead and apply using an approved good cause similarly situated to your own based on the policy here: http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloa...ents/Kings.pdf

Kings is on the radar but not the next step.
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Old 11-22-2010, 10:57 PM
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Brandon, I know you stated earlier that the Sheriff's Office is supposed to allow you to apply without having to go through the PD even if you live in city limits. How should we handle that since currently the KCSO is making you go through the PD first. Also with a change in Sheriff coming up, should we wait until the new administration takes office to avoid possible delays because of personnel changes and paperwork getting lost. Lastly I notice that the application packet states that you have to pay all the money up front which is what the CGF just got Solano County to change. How should us in Kings County handle that?
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