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  #81  
Old 11-08-2009, 7:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
One of the other "wonders of CA AW world" is that a good ol' regular non-AW semiauto rifle, with a legal hicap magazine inserted, becomes an AW if the hicap mag is fixed/screwed down (BB/maglock, etc.)
12276.1(a)(2)
Wow, that is truly hilarious!!!

So in this one instance one would want to use the product discussed here...
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Last edited by Liberty1; 11-08-2009 at 7:58 PM..
  #82  
Old 11-08-2009, 7:59 PM
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I'm pretty sure it's an "Irwinism."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty1 View Post
12276.1(a)(2)
Wow, that is truly hilarious!!!

So in this one instance one would want to use the product discussed here...
  #83  
Old 11-08-2009, 7:59 PM
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As long as the guy is making a buck, he will continue to sell it. Hopefully with Calguns getting the info out, buyers will flee.
  #84  
Old 11-08-2009, 7:59 PM
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When I saw this little device, I did'nt even think legality. What immediately popped in my little brain was why would I pay $25 for a tiny device to worry about and something I can easily lose when a bullet is good enough. I told the dude so and the funny thing was he agreed with me.
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  #85  
Old 11-08-2009, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
You need to make the above very clear to anyone who buys your device. IMHO, your device has limited usefulness, and is simply going to trip up some inexperienced noob. It is only a matter of time before I will hear about someone with one of these who got arrested.

I would suggest that you use your design and marketing skills to come up with a better bullet button, or something that helps people STAY LEGAL, instead of something that helps people BREAK THE LAW.

That's some mighty fine trout-swingin'! Here's hoping it connected.
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  #86  
Old 11-08-2009, 10:09 PM
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Yup!



Quote:
Originally Posted by 383green View Post
That's some mighty fine trout-swingin'! Here's hoping it connected.
  #87  
Old 11-09-2009, 6:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Civil case, possibly, but it's not a crime to sell a magnet that potentially has an illegal use any more than it is a crime to sell a gun that potentially has an illegal use (though the Bradys want to change that).
I've seen folding stocks for Mini-14s at almost every gun show I have been to. I am pretty sure most of their new owners aren't taking them home to install on registered assault weapons.

This has been going on a long time.
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  #88  
Old 11-09-2009, 6:40 AM
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Seems like it'd be a useful product if you switch between .223 and .22LR or if you're gonna go shoot w/ some buddies in AZ (or any other free state). Or as an emergency conversion to a detachable mag rifle if your neighborhood somehow filled up with zombies and you didn't have time to assemble the AR properly.
  #89  
Old 11-09-2009, 6:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nxd9ar15xcrL View Post
As long as the guy is making a buck, he will continue to sell it. Hopefully with Calguns getting the info out, buyers will flee.

Makes me wonder how many have already been sold to people who don't know thay are committing a felony when they atttach this thing.

And go their merry way not knowing they could lose their guns and their right to own one forever, and their freedom in the bargain.
  #90  
Old 11-09-2009, 6:55 AM
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I've already run across a couple of these in our store. Customers have been saying "oh, can you get me that new magnet tool." I've done my best to educate them, but one of them was convinced that it was still a "tool".
  #91  
Old 11-09-2009, 8:50 AM
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I talked to the guy selling them at the Ventura show and immediately told him it was illegal to attach to a featured build. He agreed but inferred that people were doing things like unscrewing their P-50 and that his product would make it easy to bypass the bullet button. He seemed to think that as long as nobody knew about it, it would be OK. A guy next to me overheard this and bought one on the spot. I walked away at that point.....
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  #92  
Old 11-09-2009, 8:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impactco View Post
I talked to the guy selling them at the Ventura show and immediately told him it was illegal to attach to a featured build. He agreed but inferred that people were doing things like unscrewing their P-50 and that his product would make it easy to bypass the bullet button. He seemed to think that as long as nobody knew about it, it would be OK. A guy next to me overheard this and bought one on the spot. I walked away at that point.....
Thank you for this info.

What is worrying me is that I've now repeatedly heard these have been shipped to *vendors* to equip rifles with, and I need to speak to some of the names mentioned before.

What will be really worrisome is when outta state vendors start shipping OLLs with this item into CA, thinking they're compliant.
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  #93  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:36 AM
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Good news: while the Cow Palace booth vendor said "JD machine" and "Kaiser" were buying these felony-in-a-baggie, I have contacted both of these fine vendors and they all agreed this device was a severe issue and that they'd never ship such an item with their product.

So one more notch on the credibility peg for the folks selling the AR MagMagnet.

I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF ANYONE SEEING SALES OF THE "AR MAG MAGNET" TALKS TO THOSE POOR BUYERS, AND REFERS THEM TO CALGUNS.NET. PLEASE TELL THEM THE DEVICE "IS NOT A TOOL" and it TRIGGERS AW STATUS WHEN USED ON A BulletButton'd CENTERFIRE RIFLE WITH FEATURES.
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  #94  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:41 AM
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Right on Bill!

- I need to also remind people that the mere act of attaching this to a centerfire BB-equipped rifle in CA is an INSTANT FELONY.

Let's start calling these things FELONY BUTTONS from here on out to remind people of what they really have.
  #95  
Old 11-09-2009, 11:13 AM
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This is totally irresponsible on the part of the manufacturer/vendor of this Felony Button.

It is clear that it serves no purpose because it is just as illegal as having a standard mag release.

Demonstrated on a featureless build, clear confirmation that the vendor knows this is a violation to put on a gun with a BB.
  #96  
Old 11-09-2009, 11:25 AM
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Just FYI - UCLAplinker and I, plus several other people on here were throwing ideas around about magnetic actuators a few months ago in a thread some may have seen, for clarifications sake I have no affiliation with this product, and I doubt they do either.
  #97  
Old 11-09-2009, 11:34 AM
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I own tools with magnetic tips, I'm sure many of you own magnetic bit holders or screwdrivers. Having a magnetic tip doesn't mean it's still not a tool.

It is a very bad idea for gun rights and this fool will get somebody in deep doodoo......along with the inevitable bad press........"COLLEGE STUDENT MANUFACTURES ASSAULT RIFLE FROM GUN SHOW PARTS"

You can already use a Wonder Wrench and back out your Free Lock for times when you don't need a mag lock.

Bill I'm glad you had at him.....it sounds like he's as likely to listen to rational arguments as Zellany......One more step backwards for gun rights......
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  #98  
Old 11-09-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag Magnet View Post
We are trying to fix the concerns stated above. I do NOT want people to think they is a way around CA's BS. It would be helpful if anyone can offer positive suggestions to help negate issues we may have.
I do think there is a place for our product, but there is limitations on it's usage, just like a whole lot of CA type products.
What do you want? A handout to read before purchase?

I seem to recall a long time ago when an AR-type receiver was considered by many to be illegal. The CA AW law is poorly written, and even now a lot of guys do stuff (guns & stuff to guns) that is considered ok by some, not ok by others. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you are uncomfortable with an OLL rifle, buy a Ruger or Kel-Tec. We are not trying to scam anybody or mislead "noobs" into buying something that they will use incorrectly.
OLL rules and regs can be very convoluted to the uneducated. We also sold a few bullet buttons to guys to switch their "unregistered assault weapons" into a CA compliant config.
Sell it EXACTLY like this:

http://www.riflegear.com/p-489-bulle...on-wrench.aspx

...and you might get a little more respect. Read the product description. It's clear that this is for out-of-state use only. That being said I have one of these- ironically the only time I have traveled out of state since getting one (I'm in AZ right now) I only took my featureless build and took off the MMG when I got to AZ.

Here's the two problems I see with your situation:

1. You are creating a product for a VERY small niche of customers attempting to fill a need that's already filled by at least two other manufacturers.

2. You are selling the products without being extremely clear regarding it's legalities.

I can't help you solve number one, but here's what I suggest to overcome number two:

Put a HUGE disclaimer on your site and your packaging that the use of this product within the state of California is most likely a felony. Make that the most prominent part of your packaging- bigger than the product name and description.

Really, though (and I swear I'm not trying to be mean) I wouldn't invest any more time, money, or effort into marketing this product. If you really sell it the honest way then you're catering to such a small customer base there's no way you could profit by any reasonable means.
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  #99  
Old 11-09-2009, 1:28 PM
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Has the CGF encountered these felony-buttons in any recent OLL cases (and thus, not able to defend the case)?
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  #100  
Old 11-09-2009, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcconn View Post
"COLLEGE STUDENT MANUFACTURES ASSAULT RIFLE FROM GUN SHOW PARTS"
Bingo. The negative PR is our enemy on all fronts. No matter what we do to project a positive light in the media (and that's hard enough when in a crowd of 1000 people wearing Levis and polos the media will focus on the poser in full BDUs that he bought at a surplus shop), the media will latch on like a pitbull at ANYTHING that can imply that illegal items are available or can be manufactured from items for sale at a gun show.

It's already tedious enough, with the BB being the thin line between legal and "assault weapon" (I really hate that term, last time I was assaulted, the perp was using a pair of pliers).

Anyone that knows how to turn a screwdriver can manufacture an assault rifle from gunshow parts. Any halfway decent machinist can make an FAR from sporting goods store parts.... but normally, those both require intent. When people manufacture an illegal weapon out of ignorance, there SHOULD be a legal blowback on the supplier for not providing full disclosure.
Same for the Mini-14 folding stocks, and other bolt-on "evil features" that can convert a Springfield .30-06 hunting rifle into a "UAW".
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  #101  
Old 11-09-2009, 1:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteQwill View Post
Has the CGF encountered these felony-buttons in any recent OLL cases (and thus, not able to defend the case)?
i think they're too new just yet... but if folks keep buyin 'em, without being warned, you can bet it's gonna happen.
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  #102  
Old 11-09-2009, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Nope.

And I think some at DOJ would like to see some folks get hung up so that people panic and stop buying OLLs.

I'd like to get another 200+K OLLs in CA as soon as possible. But we need to stop both FUD and entrapping/bad information and walk the narrow white line.
I'm wondering if the guy selling them is really an anti-gun activist. He sells these "magnetic buttons" to new OLL folks, and then turns around and gives the names to some group like the LAPD gun unit.

Easy way for them to make people fearful of OLLs, swooping in with search warrants about "Assault Weapons" using the information from the sales guy to generate probable cause.
  #103  
Old 11-09-2009, 3:55 PM
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That's probably a stretch. I just think he doesn't realize how risky these are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Sharkey View Post
I'm wondering if the guy selling them is really an anti-gun activist. He sells these "magnetic buttons" to new OLL folks, and then turns around and gives the names to some group like the LAPD gun unit.

Easy way for them to make people fearful of OLLs, swooping in with search warrants about "Assault Weapons" using the information from the sales guy to generate probable cause.
  #104  
Old 11-09-2009, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
That's probably a stretch. I just think he doesn't realize how risky these are.

He realized it enough to use a featureless rifle when he was hawking these things at the gun show.
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Old 11-09-2009, 4:03 PM
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True!

Good point!

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Originally Posted by bodger View Post
He realized it enough to use a featureless rifle when he was hawking these things at the gun show.
  #106  
Old 11-09-2009, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Sharkey View Post
I'm wondering if the guy selling them is really an anti-gun activist. He sells these "magnetic buttons" to new OLL folks, and then turns around and gives the names to some group like the LAPD gun unit.

Easy way for them to make people fearful of OLLs, swooping in with search warrants about "Assault Weapons" using the information from the sales guy to generate probable cause.
I don't know about that. Look at most of the people on this site, "gun nuts" and still we debate on meaning of laws and none of us can resite every single of the over 10,000 gun laws nation wide.

Many people are just plain ignorant and will just assume that because they were selling them that they can use them and not take the time to understand the law. Still others thinks LEOs only go after "criminals" and they have nothing to worry about. Reminds me of a guy with an unregistered assault weapon. He told me he is not a criminal and he bought it legally in the 80s and he never heard anything about registration. I really hope the old guy doesn't get pulled over. He would most likely tell the cop he does have a gun and yes you can see it cause I have nothing to hide.

These things are going to get someone a felony.
  #107  
Old 11-09-2009, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
True!

Good point!

I think that is what bothers me the most about this guy and his product. He obviously knows that it is a felony-maker, and he isn't making that clear to the people who are buying it.

Until after they've bought it, IF they read his disclaimer in the package.
  #108  
Old 11-09-2009, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bodger View Post
Until after they've bought it, IF they read his disclaimer in the package.
And how many people read instructions... much less disclaimers.
"Oh, there's that legal mumbo jumbo... oh, I see how this works..."
And the package goes in the trash.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
  #109  
Old 11-09-2009, 4:52 PM
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What I don't get is, why on earth would people buy these for $25 when you can get one of these for 6$:

http://riflegear.com/p-489-bullet-button-wrench.aspx


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  #110  
Old 11-09-2009, 4:54 PM
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Uneducated newbs. i.e. - the same people who tend to get busted.

LOL

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Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
What I don't get is, why on earth would people buy these for $25 when you can get one of these for 6$:

http://riflegear.com/p-489-bullet-button-wrench.aspx


  #111  
Old 11-09-2009, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
What I don't get is, why on earth would people buy these for $25 when you can get one of these for 6$:

http://riflegear.com/p-489-bullet-button-wrench.aspx


unless that alternative is in their face at a gun show, uneducated folks will buy something like this w/o knowing any better.
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  #112  
Old 11-09-2009, 7:46 PM
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Question: I bought the Solar Tactical version for out-of-state use.

Would it be a problem if I stored the magnet device inside of my MIAD pistol grip? Or would be be considered a part of the rifle, even then it makes absolutely no contact with the magazine release? (It is in a sealed pistol grip, afterall.)

Thanks.

-Vic
  #113  
Old 11-09-2009, 7:49 PM
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I know it fits in there real well - but it's probably better to store it in a small pill bottle or something. .

Just my 2 cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victory View Post
Question: I bought the Solar Tactical version for out-of-state use.

Would it be a problem if I stored the magnet device inside of my MIAD pistol grip? Or would be be considered a part of the rifle, even then it makes absolutely no contact with the magazine release? (It is in a sealed pistol grip, afterall.)

Thanks.

-Vic
  #114  
Old 11-09-2009, 7:57 PM
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I think Gene's answer here about spare parts pretty much answers my question about the magnet thing: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=239501

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Storing the traditional magazine parts in a compartment on your AR creates no legal problem. The only issue you run into is whether you're making it easier for a bad apple in law enforcement to change your configuration. The latter is very unlikely however.

-Gene
Gene, if you see this, if you can confirm, that'd be great. And yeah, I am an inquisitive person, today.

Thanks all.

-Vic

Last edited by Victory; 11-09-2009 at 8:20 PM..
  #115  
Old 11-09-2009, 8:07 PM
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"The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
  #116  
Old 11-09-2009, 8:18 PM
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Victory Victory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
What? Once isn't enough?

-Gene
I'll take that as your confirmation.

Spare parts and magnets...equally evil! Hehehe.



-Vic

Last edited by Victory; 11-09-2009 at 8:21 PM..
  #117  
Old 11-09-2009, 8:38 PM
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djleisure djleisure is offline
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I proudly store my Solar Tactical magnetic-bullet-button-thingy in my MIAD. I feel perfectly comfortable with it there for out-of-state use and whenever I attach my dedicated .22 upper - not a big deal.

  #118  
Old 11-09-2009, 8:41 PM
oaklander oaklander is offline
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I stand corrected. But I'm a little paranoid. . .

  #119  
Old 11-09-2009, 8:55 PM
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Chunky_lover Chunky_lover is offline
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ive seen at the swap meet tiny little magnets, 30 for $5 and I was thinking of buying some to sell as out of state button, could make a nice profit even sold at $5 each through mail. dont know what the one here looks like but I bet it was the same idea. nice mark up, better save for lawyers fee.
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  #120  
Old 11-09-2009, 9:10 PM
jah191 jah191 is offline
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Somewhat related question:

Would it be legal to attach a tool to your thumb and use that to drop the mags?

Maybe like a ring with a protruding tool piece that faces inward on your thumb.
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