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  #41  
Old 08-06-2009, 8:14 PM
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AFAIK, there have been no successful prosecutions of OLL rifles that were configured correctly. The actual law would have to be rewritten for them to become illegal now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockgunner View Post
So I had an interesting conversation with the CA DOJ Bureau of Firearms and with a pretty knowledgeable representative from the Monterey County District Attorney's office regarding possession of an AW with a Bullet Button. Neither resource were willing to give a definitive answer regarding the Bullet Button. The DOJ BOF guy told me that the individual county DA makes the decision on accepting it as a “fixed” magazine. Although he did mention “tool use”. He warned me about a case where a guy traveled from a permitted county to a non-permitted county and was arrested. He got off, but not until spending a bunch of money on a defense attorney. Know before you go I guess is the lesson here. Anyway, the DA I talked to said they are not currently pursuing Bullet Button issues, but that there are officers in the county who are arresting for AR possession EVEN WITH THE BULLET BUTTON and 10 round mag, etc. They just had one in July 2009 in Seaside. He didn’t give me any further details on the case. I also found out that he is a firearms enthusiast and understood. Bottom line is that he said regulations could change “tomorrow” and that they would then prosecute. I find it really frustrating that the DA will not commit. He was equally frustrated with the DOJ BOF. Just a little story I wanted to share since I live in Monterey County and want to build an AR while avoiding and legal entanglement. This AR business is really quite challenging. Makes me want one even more!
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  #42  
Old 08-21-2009, 5:40 PM
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one thing that i do is keep a copy of the law and the list of lowers on the ban list in each of my gun cases that contain anything even remotely suspect. got them off of coldwarshooters.net. i have LE buddies that have no clue what was legal to own.....another thing too, how about we stop putting these stupid *** 10/30 mags in to make it look like an assault rifle. that may help keep you out of trouble

Last edited by emtnsocali; 08-21-2009 at 5:59 PM..
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  #43  
Old 08-21-2009, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtnsocali View Post
one thing that i do is keep a copy of the law and the list of lowers on the ban list in each of my gun cases that contain anything even remotely suspect. got them off of coldwarshooters.net. i have LE buddies that have no clue what was legal to own.....another thing too, how about we stop putting these stupid *** 10/30 mags in to make it look like an assault rifle. that may help keep you out of trouble
10/30 mags are perfectly legal to own, I don't understand what the problem is. If a LEO gives you crap, kindly ask him to fit 11 rounds in the mag. It's simply an aesthetic modification.
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  #44  
Old 08-21-2009, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHead View Post
10/30 mags are perfectly legal to own, I don't understand what the problem is. If a LEO gives you crap, kindly ask him to fit 11 rounds in the mag. It's simply an aesthetic modification.
i say it draws attention to you....whether its legal or not. going back to the part about dont talk to a LEO about your "long gun" your asking to have someone question you about that mag. just my opinion. and i agree i does look alot cooler to have a 30rd'r in there but i just assume not advertise
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  #45  
Old 09-07-2009, 4:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockgunner View Post
So I had an interesting conversation with the CA DOJ Bureau of Firearms and with a pretty knowledgeable representative from the Monterey County District Attorney's office regarding possession of an AW with a Bullet Button. Neither resource were willing to give a definitive answer regarding the Bullet Button. The DOJ BOF guy told me that the individual county DA makes the decision on accepting it as a “fixed” magazine. Although he did mention “tool use”. He warned me about a case where a guy traveled from a permitted county to a non-permitted county and was arrested. He got off, but not until spending a bunch of money on a defense attorney. Know before you go I guess is the lesson here. Anyway, the DA I talked to said they are not currently pursuing Bullet Button issues, but that there are officers in the county who are arresting for AR possession EVEN WITH THE BULLET BUTTON and 10 round mag, etc. They just had one in July 2009 in Seaside. He didn’t give me any further details on the case. I also found out that he is a firearms enthusiast and understood. Bottom line is that he said regulations could change “tomorrow” and that they would then prosecute. I find it really frustrating that the DA will not commit. He was equally frustrated with the DOJ BOF. Just a little story I wanted to share since I live in Monterey County and want to build an AR while avoiding and legal entanglement. This AR business is really quite challenging. Makes me want one even more!
The law on this issue is clear. I would sue if my OLL with BB was taken and/or I was arrested, and I would win. It is not a matter if if they will pay, but how much they will pay. I know some LEO/DA/DOJ people don't like the
BB, but the law is clear that they are legal.

If I lived in your county I would send the DA and the police a copy of the SPD BB training bulletin so they can understand the law.
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  #46  
Old 09-07-2009, 4:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockgunner View Post
So I had an interesting conversation with the CA DOJ Bureau of Firearms and with a pretty knowledgeable representative from the Monterey County District Attorney's office regarding possession of an AW with a Bullet Button. Neither resource were willing to give a definitive answer regarding the Bullet Button. The DOJ BOF guy told me that the individual county DA makes the decision on accepting it as a “fixed” magazine.
FUD. Most of the DA/DOJ if you ask enough questions shut down and tell you everything is illegal. Fix mag rifles/ featureless rifles with detachable mags are not really a legal issue, just might be scary to some. Even the DOJ will make BS claims like you can't drive around with loaded mags or have ammo next to the gun which is not true....
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Originally Posted by forumguy View Post
The same way they enforce all the rest of the BS laws. Only criminals are exempt, while the honest obey.
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Sometimes I think the function of Calguns is half to refute bad info from gunshops and half to refute bad info from DOJ.
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  #47  
Old 09-30-2009, 11:24 AM
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Good thread... thanks for reminding us of "common sense".


On a related topic, staying out of "trouble"... how do you guys transport your OLL rifle? Is it better to have an empty mag "locked" into place or with the mag well empty?

Finally got my first EBR assembled! Just waiting on the 10/20s and BUIS to arrive.





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  #48  
Old 10-03-2009, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripcurlksm View Post
care to elaborate please?
Transporting
SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES

Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Penal Code 12276 or 12276.1 must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1.

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm: (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment. (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container. (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter. (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.
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  #49  
Old 10-03-2009, 10:42 PM
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If the magazine is "locked" with a bullet button - it's no longer a detachable magazine under the P.C.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf



Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit View Post
Keep a Mag in the well at ALL times. If a LEO asks how you load it. Say that you pull the pin and topload with the mag still in the magwell. Keep mag in place while on a table in BLM etc. Most R.O.'s ask you to remove the mag during a cease fire. This is tecnically illegal in a fixed mag configuration. But it's a good idea to comply with the R.O.
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  #50  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit View Post
The magazine has to be IN the magwell in order to be locked in place.
Nope. "Detachable magazine" as it is used to define a rifle does not at all mean what you think it means. A rifle has a detachable magazine if a magazine can be removed from the rifle without the use of a tool. An empty magazine well is no different than a disassembled SKS without a detachable magazine. If you have a bullet button it doesn't matter at all whether the magazine is in the magazine well. We've proven that to at least one bay area DA and CGF stands ready to prove that to anyone else.

I'd suggest reading this: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...able_magazines

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  #51  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:02 PM
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Please do not believe the FUD.

The area is not gray. A bullet button locked mag, whether the mag is in or out of the magwell, simply does not meet the definition of detachable magazine under the penal code.

If this were the case, tens of thousands of SKS's would be illegal, since an SKS with a "detachable mag" is illegal in California.

There have been ZERO convictions for rifles properly configured in this manner.

EDIT: Gene beat me to it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit View Post
The magazine has to be IN the magwell in order to be locked in place. A removed mag in no longer locked. This was explained to me by a ranger and seems to make sense, Does it not? That 's why the Bushnell SEALED mag AR is the only plain english AR legal in Cal. and the reason some FFL's won't touch an OLL. The area is still grey.
The same ranger gave a fellow calgunner a break when his rifle was on the table with the mag removed, but warned the shooter that if he ever caught him again with the mag removed, He would be cited and the rifle confiscated. I tend to go with that.
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  #52  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:07 PM
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[quote=diginit;3159317]The magazine has to be IN the magwell in
order to be locked in place. A removed mag in no longer locked.

Irrelevant.

The only thing that matters is that a tool is required to unlock the magazine and that manual no-tool unlatching is not possible. Period.

Quote:
This was explained to me by a ranger and seems to make sense,
Ignore ranger. He's basing comments on old information or misunderstanding.

It doesn't make sense if you read the definition of 'detachable magazine' in 11 CCR 5469(a) and drop that wording into PC 122761(a) definition of AW.

Quote:
Does it not? That 's why the Bushnell SEALED mag AR is the oplain english AR legal in Cal. and the reason some FFL's won't touch an OLL.
It's Bushmaster. Bushnell makes scopes.

Bushmaster relied on DOJ approval which may well extend further than law. They're also an out of state company that doesn't understand CA law details & regulatory law.

The FFLs that don't touch OLLs are often old "FUD" FFLs that don't understand the law and/or are so worried about some other aspect of their past business they're treading on water.

Many tens of thousands of folks own open-magwell Bushmaster Carbon15 lowers used with BulletButton devices, too.

Quote:
The area is still grey.
No it isn't. The law requires a detachable magazine to not require a tool for use. Period.

The Calguns Foundation wins cases on these matters. Actually, we haven't won in the last several - they don't file charges and folks get their guns back when law is explained to them.

A BulletButton maglock'd 10rd magazine requires a tool for use and is thus not a semiauto rifle equipped with a a detachable magazine.


Quote:
The same ranger gave a fellow calgunner a break when his rifle was on the table with the mag removed, but warned the shooter that if he ever caught him again with the mag removed, He would be cited and the rifle confiscated.
The Calguns Foundation is prepared send that ranger to reeducation if he persists in not getting up to speed.

There have to be around 200K OLL rifles using a BulletButton maglock device or variant thereof.

- DOJ agents walk by tables of such black rifles at gunshows now, and in the matter of a recent deceased OLL owner's estate, caused such guns to be released from police impound.
- DOJ agents regulary audit/inspect CA gunshops and there is no controversy over BB'd rifles in inventory.
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  #53  
Old 10-13-2009, 11:11 PM
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Long arms are not registered. The entire point of this thread is to prevent people from coming into contact with law enforcement.

Although our rifles are legal, some LE officers still don't know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garuda7 View Post
If a cop wants to hassle me about my OLL, cant he just run the serial number and see that it is legally registered to me?
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  #54  
Old 10-18-2009, 9:48 PM
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Off list lower. A generic name for certain California-legal semi-automatic rifles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbomhff View Post
What,s an oll?
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  #55  
Old 10-23-2009, 9:36 PM
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What i do when i go outdoor's or to the range is i take all my paper work all my invoices,receipt's,etc. with me. Is there something else i can print out to show an LE if i ever need to show them that my OLL is legal in CA.? THANKS
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  #56  
Old 10-23-2009, 10:08 PM
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the flowchart and Sac PD memo should be all you need
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  #57  
Old 10-23-2009, 10:18 PM
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Guys, I don't carry anything. If an LEO wants to bust you, he or she is going to do it, regardless of the legality of the rifle.

The trick is to never, ever do anything to call attention to yourself. . .
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  #58  
Old 11-07-2009, 7:49 PM
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That's what I did, I took my time, seen what others were doing, read up on it over and over and then did my first build last year.

Can never have enough information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
Great points as simple as they may seem.

I understand the excitement and wanting to rush right into it all, but take your time, and like I've said before, read, read read all that you can, this forum has so much knowledge on it, it's amazing. Buy your parts and keep reading while waiting for them to come in. In the DROS period, keep reading, understand the laws and WHY they are that way. Keep yourself protected. Print out the flow chart and other important defense documents and keep with your weapons at all times.

If there's one thing I learned when dealing with OLL is that it comes with a lot of responsibility, more than you would think at first.
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  #59  
Old 11-09-2009, 1:31 PM
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Another way to get arrested with your OLL:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=238857
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  #60  
Old 11-22-2009, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djleisure View Post
Excellent advice and to your point of DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, I suggest if you (people reading this thread) haven't watched this video on YouTube (Don't Talk to Police), take 45 minutes out of your life and watch it. NOW!
Excellent video.
Watched it all the way through.
Thanks for posting.

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  #61  
Old 11-23-2009, 8:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripcurlksm View Post
Also, print out and keep with you the Sacremento Police Memo on OLL's and the bullet button. See my signature #3 link, click the PDF link in the first post and print the pages numbered 96-98.
Where can I find this? Is it the same as the flow chart?
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  #62  
Old 11-23-2009, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANARCANGEL View Post
Where can I find this? Is it the same as the flow chart?
Different from the flow chart. Looks like ripcurlksm changed his .sig since that post.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sac...2008-11-18.pdf

Added to the Calguns Foundation Wiki article on OLL.
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  #63  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
Mods, please move to appropriate forum. I posted here because many NEW users do not visit the 2A forum.

--------

As a Board Member of the CGF, I get the dubious pleasure of hearing about arrests and gun confiscations. Many of these do not make it onto the forum. There are not too many, but there are still enough that it is troubling to me.

While there have been no successful OLL prosecutions, I think that people should still exercise common sense with respect to their OLLs.

The arrests and confiscations are falling into a pattern.

1) A NEW gun owner does something to bring himself to the attention of LE.

2) LE either arrests the new gun owner, or takes his OLL and starts an investigation.

Here is some advice for new shooters:

1) DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE.

This isn't meant to be anti-LEO, but is simply common sense. Most police in the state do not even know what an OLL is. Don't ask them about OLLs, don't talk to them about OLLs. What is simply an OLL to you is an AW to them.

More experienced Calgunners, who have existing relationships with LE, should of course work to educate LE.

2) DO NOT DO THINGS TO BRING ATTENTION TO YOURSELF.

Again, this is common sense, and has been posted about ad nauseum. But I will repeat it. Do not drive around with a broken windshield, do not speed. Keep your car or truck clean. BWO has an excellent thread on this topic.

3) MAKE SURE YOUR OLL IS LEGAL.

Read the flowchart. Understand it. Do not configure your rifle in a way that is illegal.

Again, these are all common sense, but I think that some new gun owners are so excited about getting their first OLL that they kind of lose sight of common sense.
I was in LE for 38 years and to maintain peace officer status I had to take certification classes usually taught by LE officers from other jurisdictions.I remember a conversation with an LA officer about the ammo I carried off duty I told him I carried jacketed hollow points,he said those were illegal but he wouldn't arrest me because I was an officer,he was way off they aren't illegal & never were .I had officers tell me certain weapons were illegal,they weren't.
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  #64  
Old 01-04-2010, 6:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxadam579 View Post
If i disasmble the upper from the bottom and i got pulled over would they hassle me if i had my ten round fixed magazine in the well
It depends on the education of the officer. California law is very complicated, and it appears those who make it intend for it to remain that way. Most of the folks I work with will struggle with certain assault weapon facts, unless they've made it a point to get up to date with them. The best education does not come from the DOJ, but places such as this.

There are all sorts of constant changing laws and case laws to keep up on. This may be overlooked, as most of my peers will look at how this applies to the criminal minded rather than the law abiding citizen. I would speculate the average patrol officer may be uncertain as to the legality of what you have and may call for a supervisor.

I would imagine that if you had the flow chart, along with other items mentioned in this post, you would be okay with most officers. Most of the folks I work with are also interested in having their own CA legal weapons.

I agree with several above as well. You should not have to prove your innocence when doing nothing wrong; however, with the education provided to law enforcement in this area being what it is, it is helpful.

Last edited by Sarge744; 01-04-2010 at 8:07 PM..
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  #65  
Old 01-05-2010, 8:16 PM
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If it's a "bullet button" build - you should travel with the MAG IN THE MAGWELL. It's easier to show that it is only detachable via tool when it is already in the magwell.

Make sure it's an empty mag!

Make sure it's only a 10 round mag!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 SIG fan View Post
SO, when traveling with your OLL, does it matter if you have a 10rnd mag in the well of if it's empty?
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  #66  
Old 01-07-2010, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
If it's a "bullet button" build - you should travel with the MAG IN THE MAGWELL. It's easier to show that it is only detachable via tool when it is already in the magwell.

Make sure it's an empty mag!

Make sure it's only a 10 round mag!
This is the all around safest bet, even though it may be unnecessary according to the way the law is written. You may still encounter those who feel it is a gray area if the magazine well is empty. I don't feel it should make a difference, nor do I believe the way the law is written that it does make a difference, but my opinion will mean little to you if stopped.

Last edited by Sarge744; 01-07-2010 at 4:00 PM..
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  #67  
Old 01-20-2010, 1:54 PM
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CA_AR-15_925 CA_AR-15_925 is offline
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So if LEO checks my AR out at the range or BLM land and is saying to me that my Ar is illegal when I know it's not.
Should I even try to explain why it's legal and show him the flow chart and sac police memo that I have in my case at all time or say nothing and let him do what he is going to do.
Also how can you say something that the LEO can hold against you if you did nothing wrong and your gun is perfectly legal?
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Old 01-20-2010, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CA_AR-15_925 View Post
So if LEO checks my AR out at the range or BLM land and is saying to me that my Ar is illegal when I know it's not.
Should I even try to explain why it's legal and show him the flow chart and sac police memo that I have in my case at all time or say nothing and let him do what he is going to do.
Also how can you say something that the LEO can hold against you if you did nothing wrong and your gun is perfectly legal?
I would. The statements you are using in this situation will be the same that you would use for defense in court. I don't see how it would hurt you at all, but saying nothing in this circumstance probably would.
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Old 01-31-2010, 2:44 AM
30rdMag 30rdMag is offline
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Here is my 2 cents.
I live in Arizona and visit California alot. I was taking my firearms with me back and forth.
I made sure I have a OLL, I also make sure my car is up to date, bone stock looking in every way. I do need to get a BB installed, But I think its just better to leave it in AZ.

Yes Dont speed, Dont stand out in a crowd. Drive a stock and not a flashy looking car. They dont even look at mine, Its not all about speeding, In california if the car looks non-oem in anyway, they will stop you, Missing front lic plate? window tint? fart can exhaust? Stickers? Dont carry anything, You will get pulled over when you drive past that police officer when he is trolling, I feel that even a NRA sticker in the back window of your car or truck in california is asking for it.

I also would and learned this in law class was to keep your windows up if they ask you to get out of the car. This keeps them one more step away. Window down? They can stick their heads in and look around. Windows up? You can look thru the windows, But you cant open the door to look around.

If they ask to look, decline based on safety for you and the officer being stopped on the side of the roadway. You feel that your concerned that you may get hit or rearended by a drunk driver, Even more so if the officer has you stopped at night and has all his deck lights on. Its a proven fishing lure for drunks.

DO NOT BE A RUDE AHOLE, be nice and polite when stopped, keep your hands on the wheel till he asks you to get your papers then tell him where they are at, once he or she nods, get them for them. he will feel safer around you. Keep your papers in an area thats easy to quick to get to.
Dont open your glove box ad have a box of rounds in there.

Also, Everyone has a cell phone. Get a visor clip for it. When you are stopped, call your phone number. This will record the whole stop onto your cell phones messaging system. That can be used in court, or be a lawyer to get you out of jail.

I have used a officers own duty belt voice recorder against him in court, for a bad traffic stop years ago. No days just use your phones. Make sure to use your name and his name "officer - Jones" when speaking to them.
You will be amazed, Keep it in the car if your asked to get out. You will recorcd everything that happens inside your car. If they find it and shut it off, you will still have it recorded on your voice mail. They cant delete it.

Also if you are ever arrested, NEVER speak in the back of a patrol car, They are listening and recording.

What works for everything and you? Out of sight is out of mind in california.
Everything is about money and your state needs it bad..... Its only going to get worse. I dont know any reason why anyone would want to live there anymore. Its a great state land wise, But the government is just out of control.
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Old 02-25-2010, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilafur View Post
oaklander, regarding the mag......what are your thoughts on an empty 10/20 or 10/30 mag in the well?
An empty 10 round magazine is an empty 10 round magazine. It doesn't matter if it's a 10/20, 10/30 or 10/ham sandwich. What's important is that it's a 10 round magazine.
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  #71  
Old 02-25-2010, 10:32 AM
oaklander oaklander is offline
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I agree with that. The only thing I would add is that if it's a 10/20 or 10/30 - you may have to spend extra time demonstrating to the LEO that it is still only a 10 round mag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger View Post
An empty 10 round magazine is an empty 10 round magazine. It doesn't matter if it's a 10/20, 10/30 or 10/ham sandwich. What's important is that it's a 10 round magazine.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:32 PM
Evolution05 Evolution05 is offline
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Default Non-resident in possession of a OLL?

I recently move to CA from Wyoming. I know...I went from the state with the fewest and oldest laws to the one with most...what a drag, but you can't beat the weather.

I have two questions

1) If you are not yet an official resident of CA (don't have a CA driver's license or are driving a vehicle with out of state plates will this have any implications on possessing an OLL if you encounter an LEO.

Let's say you were to go to a shooting range or better yet out to Orosco Ridge to shoot an OLL and were approached by some sort of LEO. Could/would being a non resident or driving a vehicle with non resident plates pose a problem? What about the same circumstances but with just a handgun? In both scenarios the firearm themselves being legal (10 or less round mags, OLL complies with flowchart, etc)?

2) I just want to make sure I understand the flow chart correctly - does the flash hider issue only come into play if the firearm has a detachable magazine (uses a CA legal, non-pistol grip stock) or are flash hiders illegal in all circumstances on an AR-15 style rifle that is otherwise an OLL?

Trying to remedy my ignorance. Thanks for your help.
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolution05 View Post
I recently move to CA from Wyoming. I know...I went from the state with the fewest and oldest laws to the one with most...what a drag, but you can't beat the weather.

I have two questions

1) If you are not yet an official resident of CA (don't have a CA driver's license or are driving a vehicle with out of state plates will this have any implications on possessing an OLL if you encounter an LEO.

Let's say you were to go to a shooting range or better yet out to Orosco Ridge to shoot an OLL and were approached by some sort of LEO. Could/would being a non resident or driving a vehicle with non resident plates pose a problem? What about the same circumstances but with just a handgun? In both scenarios the firearm themselves being legal (10 or less round mags, OLL complies with flowchart, etc)?
So long as it is a California compliant, properly configured OLL, no, state of residence does not matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolution05 View Post
2) I just want to make sure I understand the flow chart correctly - does the flash hider issue only come into play if the firearm has a detachable magazine (uses a CA legal, non-pistol grip stock) or are flash hiders illegal in all circumstances on an AR-15 style rifle that is otherwise an OLL?
Legal with a fixed mag on a semi-auto centerfire rifle. Unregulated in all other instances on rifles. The only things generally banned in all instances are NFA items like suppressors and grenade launchers.
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  #74  
Old 03-07-2010, 6:55 AM
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If it is not on the list, you would have to fill in the stock or add a bullet button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolution05 View Post
What about a Romanian PSL or Dragunov. In the traditional configuration are these rifles legal in CA? If not, what (if anything) can be done to make them comply?
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Old 03-10-2010, 2:07 PM
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I know it says 'Don't Talk To Police!" But what if he's asking general questions like, "What gun is that?" while I'm shooting a self-assembled AR15? Do I really want to say, "I'm not going to answer any of your questions until I speak to a lawyer?"

If I do answer, "It's an AR15" and he responds, "Those are illegal, aren't they?" I say, "No" or would I say, "I'm not going to answer any of your questions until I speak to a lawyer?"

If I say, "No" and he wants to know why I say "no" I say, "It's not on any ban list, nor is it qualified as an 'assault rifle.'

Now I'm screwed since I opened my mouth in the first place, right?

So, do I really say, "I'm not answering any of your questions?" That seems like a sure way of getting handcuffed to me, after he draws on me. I'm sure if I don't answer his simple questions, he'll 'investigate' and take my rifle away.

Your take on this.
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  #76  
Old 03-10-2010, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silencer View Post
I know it says 'Don't Talk To Police!" But what if he's asking general questions like, "What gun is that?" while I'm shooting a self-assembled AR15? Do I really want to say, "I'm not going to answer any of your questions until I speak to a lawyer?"

If I do answer, "It's an AR15" and he responds, "Those are illegal, aren't they?" I say, "No" or would I say, "I'm not going to answer any of your questions until I speak to a lawyer?"

If I say, "No" and he wants to know why I say "no" I say, "It's not on any ban list, nor is it qualified as an 'assault rifle.'

Now I'm screwed since I opened my mouth in the first place, right?

So, do I really say, "I'm not answering any of your questions?" That seems like a sure way of getting handcuffed to me, after he draws on me. I'm sure if I don't answer his simple questions, he'll 'investigate' and take my rifle away.

Your take on this.
It's not an AR15...it's an AR style rifle with an OLL.
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Old 03-13-2010, 1:51 PM
Bonedoc Bonedoc is offline
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Dang!
I learned more about OLL, CA laws, carry and ownership reading this while the "video" (which EVERYONE should view/listen to) played in the background. Thanks very much for the effort behind the original post and all the fine comments... too bad more duty LEs couldn't just study this thread... I've the SAC PDF now, will carry it always. Thanks again.
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  #78  
Old 03-16-2010, 7:30 PM
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Police are not the problem, They may not always make the right choice on gun laws but you cant blame them. Even police are humans. Most citizens of CA dont understand gun laws and a lot of police thing the gun laws are BS. Criminals will get guns either way, they know that. Be mad at barbara boxer not LEO's. If you have a OLL then carry documentation, If you have a rifle then make sure its legal!. You wouldnt mod out a car and not have part numbers or documentation to say its legal. Thats what smog checks and Carb numbers are for. So carry the SAC document and use your OLL at the range not the backyard (BAY AREA CITIZENS.) Shooting people because they are on your Block/Street is a crime even if they want your nikes!
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:43 AM
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I support our police officers, and do not want people to think that the police are the problem. They are part of the solution, and we must work with them to educate them.

The problem is really with the DOJ, and their outdated AW Guide, among other things. We are working to educate LE agencies around the state, and I am told that even the BOF may now be using the AW flow chart.

That being said, until that is accomplished, it is best to avoid contact with LE.

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Originally Posted by toconnor1074 View Post
Police are not the problem, They may not always make the right choice on gun laws but you cant blame them.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drag View Post
hey can you copy the link to that sacto pd pdf?
i seem to be having trouble finding it.
thanks
Gene has just about every important file hosted here, http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/

And the Sac PD OLL memo is here, http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sac...2008-11-18.pdf
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