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General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members. |
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#81
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^this. long before ever setting foot on the range, i showed my girlfriend how to load, hold, aim and safely handle each weapon. the whole, "lets get a kick out of how inexperienced shooters react" mentality is plain unsafe
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#82
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Why don't we substitute some words Personally I think the In a free society you CAN build something just because you can. In this state, your thinking is why we can't do a damn thing. K? |
#83
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This. If I'm with a new person and they REALLLLY want to shoot a caliber I believe is out of their league of control, I give them ONE round at a time.
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#84
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I don't think these guns should be outlawed, or that the manufacturer should be forced to make any changes. I also don't think the manufacturer is to blame for the accident.
I would be cool of the S&W to give a little heads-up, tho. Obviously, not everyone knew or knows that this happens and the most that they mention in the manual is basically heavier recoil rounds can be "uncomfortable." Hell, a person could read the current manual and even place their hands on the gun as directed, but that means nothing if they don't have enough strength to control it. |
#85
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#86
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I have no interest in shooting such a caliber and have been shooting awhile. I would never ask ask a rookie to grab and give it a go. Blame the idiot users not the manufacturer.
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USS ZELLARS DD-777 |
#90
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Neither is acting stupid. Guns recoil. Big guns recoil more. Even novices know that. It doesn't take a f**king rocket scientist to figure that out.
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#93
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There were plenty of heavy recoiling pistols before the 500. The TC in 45-70, custom Bowens, the DE in 50 AE, 454 Casull, etc. The recoil isn't the issue. It's the fools that put them in the hands of inexperienced shooters. No warning label or notice will prevent that. Last edited by RobG; 12-06-2013 at 8:23 PM.. |
#94
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I don't have a .500, but I do have a .454, i have no trouble shooting this revolver accurately enough to hunt with out to 50 yards and it is my sidearm when backcountry where I hunt and fish. Not my favorite plinker, but i shoot it often enough to maintain proficiency and regularly put 50rds/week through it in the weeks prior to hunts. That said, the last 3 seasons though I had it with me i still took my elk with my rifle (30-06). |
#95
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Hey, put me in their hands, I'm fairly certain I'd fire pretty rapidly too.
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NRA Life Member No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#96
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Man those guys talked 22 minutes about the same damn thing...lol
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A note to the NSA or anyone gathering information on me, this disclaimer is for you..."Everything I type on this website Is purely fictional and for entertainment purposes only. None of it is true." Also, sometimes I type in CAPS to emphasize a POINT. Please dont interpret that as YELLING. Sorry if I HURT any fuzzy little bunny's FEELINGS out there. Last edited by blazeaglory; 12-06-2013 at 9:03 PM.. |
#97
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Fun. As in a helluva lot of, live a little. That is greatly something to be gained and some of us enjoy "shaking hands with god" now and then with this caliber. And I despise irresponsible unsafe dickheads that hand this caliber over to inexperienced shooters.
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"Yeah, like... well, I just want to slap a hippie or two. Maybe even make them get jobs." |
#98
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Yes, I've seen a lot of videos like this girl, fumbling dangerously with the gun after the first shot to the point of the barrel coming back and muzzle-sweeping their own face/head/chest, or where the shooter has the revolver arc back and hammer bonks them on the top of the head or forehead; a single round chambered would definitely be a safe bet. If I sound overly serious; well, I think it's warranted.
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Last edited by The Gleam; 12-06-2013 at 9:55 PM.. |
#99
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#100
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The 500 in an 8 3/8" barrel is no problem for an experienced shooter. I have the 460 in 8 3/8" and full power loads are easier to shoot than 44 magnum from a single action.
I have let newbie women shoot my 460 when they are green to guns, but I have a routine that makes it safe. I reload all of my centerfire pistol and rifle ammo. I have 4 levels of power for the 460. Start new/unknown shooter off with 10/22 rifle then Ruger MkIII Hunter in 22 lr 38 spl or 9mm 40 or 45 semi auto pistol then the 460 xvr with 45 colt loads at 750fps with a 230 grain LRN before they shoot this load, I have them grip the unloaded gun as if they are going to fire it. I will hold the gun by the barrel and simulate the recoil they will feel, and then some. I let them know exactly what they are in for and how to properly stand and grip the gun. They get 1 round of 45 colt to start, then a cylinder full, when they can control the gun. I do the same with a 460 cartridge and a 270 grain boolit at 1000 fps. All the women who have tried this round have had no problem, as long as they can hold the gun properly. A 270 at 1400-1500 fps is a handful and many people tap out before this, or I just don't let them do it because of safety reasons. I don't recall letting any women shoot this load. A 240 or 300 Jword over 41-45 grains of magnum pistol powder is a full power load. I can handle the recoil with no problem. A hot 500 Smith is more of a handful. I shoot mostly 45 colt and light 460 loads and I mix in some medium and hot loads. You don't have to drive a Corvette ZR1 at full throttle to enjoy it, not that I have had that pleasure. My current shooting partner is a woman who has bad wrists and a bad shoulder. She shoots my 30-06 bolt gun all the time, with light to medium loads, out to 230 yards. I won't let her shoot the full power loads, as she can only take so many medium loads and I won't let her be turned off or harmed by the sport if I can help it. If I only had factory loads, she would have to use recoil pads, extra weight on the gun, etc., or not shoot it. My first dirt bike was a Yamaha wr426f. It was heavy and had a ton of power. I could blow by people like they were standing still and I never even hit full throttle in 5th gear, and I made some fast passes on dry lakes with it. I knew it was more than I could handle, so I took it slow. I eventually got hurt on it, but it was a freak thing at about 10 mph. I had the same type of crash before, but this time it twisted my leg too far and broke it. The weight of the bike caused some of the injury. I was willing to play the game, and I had to deal with the consequences. Should big, and fast dirt bikes be banned? I could have rode a 250 instead.
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He who dies with the most tools/toys wins |
#101
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That one also damages thumbs too close to the cylinder. The mythbuster guys tested it. They totally didn't believe the stories but their tests showed it can happen. The put some chicken near the areas people claimed to be injured by having their thumbs near and it shredded it... in several test fires.
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#102
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I had to think this one over before commenting.... maybe the appropriate response would be only rent out guns of standard, manageable calibers. This is like someone renting a drag racer and ending up dying in a crash - not entirely surprising. Sure some people can handle it but its not worth the liability if it were my business.
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#103
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I have fired a 500 S&W twice. Once when relatively new to shooting. Guy had a snubbie, and handloads. They were hot loads velocity wise, but a lighter bullet, so not too bad. Even then I almost hit myself in the head. I had to tell my friend he couldn't do it and I thought it was too dangerous (he was excited, first time at the range...but he almost hit himself in the head with my .357 magnum, and that was a heavy Single Action. Switched him to .38 spl and coach him a bit on holding it)
The 2nd time was years later. It was a full size one, but with the heavier bullets. Seems to me it has harder recoil, but I managed it better. A lot better. But still not the funnest to shoot. No away I would let anyone I bring to the range (unless as much or more experienced than I) near one. |
#104
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But the thing to consider is just how many times guns like the S&W .500(and it's variants), or .50AE desert eagles, and other powerful handguns get rented across the country, and how many times this has happened. Once? I agree that this incident shouldn't have happened at all, and was completely preventable. However, panicking and freaking out like a bunch of safety ninnies(claiming S&W needs to print crap on the gun or in the manual, claiming that such guns shouldn't be made, etc.) over one incident is not how responsible gun owners who make decisions with facts and logic should behave. |
#105
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#106
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Had a friend of mine just yesterday telling me she went to a range for the first time with another newbie and rented a hand gun. They wanted something easy and the idiot behind the desk told her to rent a large caliber because you always start with large calibers and work down. WTF!!! I told her I'll take her to a range next time she wants to go.
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“Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.” Mitt Romney 2012 Republican Presidential Candidate |
#107
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That is exactly what happens with some of the super mags my .460 will do it with the quickness if you are not holding on to it properly. When i let people shoot my it i only load one round at a time unless i have seen them shoot my gun before.
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#109
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At the beginning of the video they explicitly said they weren't complaining about noise from mall ninja tactical types. They said what many in this thread said, that it's stupid and unsafe to give a powerful gun to a beginner who doesn't have the experience to safely shoot it.
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#110
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Exactly 1000% agree. If anything just 1 single round
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#111
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It wouldn't surprise me that the guy that handed her the gun blames it on the firearm instead of his own actions.
A few years past a friend of mine was at a football party where the father was to busy watching the football game to keep an eye on his infant daughter. He had the back door and gate to the pool tied open so the dog can have easy access taking a piss, and since their pool was never maintained and kept full he unplugged the wave monitor to his pool so it won't send false alarms. Well his daughter fell in and drowned and it wasn't till the mother came home and asked where was the baby that they realized she had drowned. He blamed it on a freak accident instead of his own negligence and wanted a reverse vasectomy so they can replace the daughter that drowned. There are people that are that clueless and dumb in this world, they will look to blame something else rather than their own actions.
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#112
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With the recoil being so much on the S&W .500, maybe they should put a forward grip under the barrel to help control the recoil. It's not a semi auto, so there wouldn't be any restrictions on such a modification. This might even be patentable!
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#113
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But we would always give the advice to start by loading only one round, and explained proper technique. We made sure that they knew that if they screwed up, they'd put a hole in the ceiling or their heads, and if they did so, the wouldn't be coming back (to life, or to the range, depending). But ultimately, it was the shooter's responsibility to use the firearm properly, because there was no way we'd be out there holding his or her hand while they were shooting. Last edited by CrippledPidgeon; 12-08-2013 at 3:19 PM.. |
#114
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I do not get why this gun is DA: it is not a competition gun, nor is it a plinking choice, and one shot from a hunter will clear out the entire area. trigger reset is so ingrained for regular shooting that if the thought even crosses ones muscle memory with this gun there is a great chance of the bump fire as being discussed.
I know very little about SA, would this actually solve the problem? |
#115
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That said, the purpose of dbl action is to have quicker follow up than the 2 part motion that a single action requires. In defensive (getting charged for instance) situations this can be the difference. End of it all. The fault lies with the shooter, and to the ijit that gave the reportedly inexperienced shooter the firearm without proper training/experience/instruction/single load only. Just a big deadly fail ... |
#116
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Would still be an AOW in that configuration, plus I don't want any part of my body aligned with the barrel-cylinder gap.
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#117
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Heavy stuff like this should not be outlawed. But, I would think the manufacturer would warn buyers of these potential hazards jus to cover the liability. How do they effectively do this...I don't know. Its no harder to buy a .500 than a .22 so Joe Blow is at his whim to buy one and hand it to his 90 lb girlfreind. Don't know what the answer is other than common sense. Like loading one at a time or every other cylinder. Fine line gets drawn when trying to declare how much recoil is to much recoil for the "average" novice shooter to handle.
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karma ? The blessings I experience every day are far better than the wrath I deserve. Thankfully, there is no such thing as karma. Proof being that if it did exist we would all most assuredly be dead NRA PATRON LIFE MEMBER Last edited by Shorthair; 12-09-2013 at 12:09 PM.. |
#118
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#120
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This^^^^^
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