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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#161
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Volokh Analysis
David Kopel over at the Volokh Conspiracy (a blog for law professors) has a few interesting observations.
http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/11/moo...an-key-points/ Quote:
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association |
#162
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What's your opinion on that? That's why I was thinking we actually don't want the clock to run out, because IL gunnies need a shall issue law that also has language preventing additional carry licensing schemes by major cities. |
#164
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Our votes matter.
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#165
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Get ready for a dose of cold water.
The state (IL) waits the entire 180 days and then appeals. They'll drag their feet and invent a barrage of delaying tactics until BHO appoints his next closet Marxist to the SCOTUS and its game over.
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Things usually turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out. |
#166
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Don't we have a rule hereabouts against posting photos of ugly and/or stupid people?
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Things usually turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out. |
#167
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Should be interesting to see what happens next. Almost certainly going to expect some "reasonable" California style 'regulation' (aka Infringements) with discretionary CCW Issue ala Baca. IOW, delaying tactics. Appeal to SCOTUS raises the stakes but probably gets them a stay while they pursue and hope Barry can get another appointment to replace one of the Heller 5.
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson 9mm + 5.56mm = .45ACP + 7.62 NATO = 10mm + 6.8 SPC = Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis; Jn 1:14 |
#168
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So, if I'm correct, unless the IL legislature comes up with a carry law, IL goes Con. carry?
In 180 days? My inner Saul Alinsky is dancing.....
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Rest in Peace - Andrew Breitbart. A true student of Alinsky. 90% of winning is simply showing up. "Let's not lose sight of how much we reduced our carbon footprint by telecommuting this protest." 383green NRA Benefactor Member |
#169
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It appears so
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#170
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What incentive would we have to let them pass a bill that gives us less that what we're already going to get automatically? That's where we are right now. We have a VERY large bargaining chip we can use to bludgeon our political opponents with, and we need to make use of it! |
#171
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson 9mm + 5.56mm = .45ACP + 7.62 NATO = 10mm + 6.8 SPC = Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis; Jn 1:14 |
#172
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Won't defendants just request en banc or appeal to SCOTUS and then get a stay on the decision pending the outcome of one of those actions?
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No government deprives its citizens of rights without asserting that its actions are "reasonable" and "necessary" for high-sounding reasons such as "public safety." A right that can be regulated is no right at all, only a temporary privilege dependent upon the good will of the very government officials that such right is designed to constrain. |
#173
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association |
#174
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There're time limits on filing appeals.
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DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#175
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Correct me if I am wrong, but SCOTUS is currently reviewing cases to take until January(?) and they will be argued starting in March(?)...... Is there any chance an appeal would be filed in that time frame(it would likely be a long shot for the judges to even accept it) or are we looking at next session(or sometime thereafter).
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#176
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but let me remind you also that moderation in the persuit of justice is no virtue" -Barry Goldwater “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.” -Gerald Ford ^ |
#177
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http://www.saf.org/default.asp?p=contact Second Amendment FoundationSAF definitely deserves to receive some donations! I will be joining you in sending them some money. -- Michael |
#178
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That this decision only strikes state law does not leave room for counties to violate it. The opinion makes it pretty clear that even NY's may issue probably doesn't pass constitutional muster. IL could wat 181 and then Cook County could pass it's own carry scheme, but it would be bound by this opinion. That's unlikely.
However, en-banc is a possibility to try to delay and get out of the political pickle that the anti crowd in IL finds themselves currently in. That, however, looks only like a delay at best for the antis... -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#179
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#180
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"If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron."--Spider Robinson. "It is a ghastly but tenable proposition that the world is now ruled by the insane, whose increasing plurality will, in a few more generations, make probable the incarceration of all sane people born among them."--Clark Ashton Smith "Every time a pro-terrorist Tranzi hangs, an angel gets his wings."--Tom Kratman |
#181
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__________________
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but let me remind you also that moderation in the persuit of justice is no virtue" -Barry Goldwater “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.” -Gerald Ford ^ |
#182
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It's not the politicians' money, so why should they care? Just tax the peasants more.
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"If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron."--Spider Robinson. "It is a ghastly but tenable proposition that the world is now ruled by the insane, whose increasing plurality will, in a few more generations, make probable the incarceration of all sane people born among them."--Clark Ashton Smith "Every time a pro-terrorist Tranzi hangs, an angel gets his wings."--Tom Kratman |
#184
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association Last edited by sholling; 12-11-2012 at 8:10 PM.. |
#185
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Done!
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"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788 NRA Life Benefactor Member SAF Life Member CRPA Life Member |
#186
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I'm not the only one that can do that math (aka, Rham can count.) -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#187
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Its a good day but these legislatures could really screw up a law for example
1 million insurance for all CCW's Yearly proficiency test proctored by LEO and costly record check Only one bullet magazines are allowed Cannot carry while riding in a vehicle due to vibrations,and road rage
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#188
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Seems to me that turning it into another Ezell is exactly what we do not want. Maybe I'm just missing the overall strategic value of it...
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#189
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It's has and will continue to be very handy. -Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#190
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(sigh) -- Michael |
#191
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By the way, this is a HUGE, HUGE win for us. Staggering. I was concerned that the 7th was holding back on us with respect to the timing of the ruling, but I was flat out wrong to have that particular concern -- them waiting until Kachalsky was issued has been VERY, VERY good for us.
I have adjusted my overall outlook accordingly.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#192
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But what has it done for people in Chicago?
__________________
The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#193
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Ezell cabined the Moore panel in re intermediate scrutiny.
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#194
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PS. You kind of skipped over how it helped get them on the road to shall issue carry faster than us -Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#195
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__________________
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but let me remind you also that moderation in the persuit of justice is no virtue" -Barry Goldwater “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.” -Gerald Ford ^ |
#196
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The scenario under discussion is the one where IL has not preempted Chicago as regards the public carry field. Moore will simply have the effect of erasing the challenged statute. Useful as it may have been thus far, Ezell has turned into a quagmire. That is something we can do without in the face of Chicago playing games with carry in public, which is precisely the context of the discussion here. However, if you say what we'll get is another Moore, well, that's very different.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#197
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By the way, as a decision, this one isn't all roses. The panel quite clearly likes competency tests:
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That, of course, leaves a lot of room for abuse...
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#198
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Uhm, by citing Mas, he's saying that people need to know the 4 rules. That's pretty darn pro gun.
-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#199
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KC is sounding pretty optimistic. Maybe the Mayan Calendar thing has some legitimacy.
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#200
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This whole thing is awesome and gives me hope. I love Gura's notice of supplemental authority. I have a feeling this whole situation is now in its endgame and will be resolved within 12 months, with a few months of enforcement actions after that here in California before the LTCs start flowing.
I wish I knew of a Brady Campaign discussion forum I could read now to see what they're saying. There's no mention of this on their blog, although they do crow about some other decisions. What are they going to be left with 12 months from now?
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