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  #161  
Old 08-21-2013, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dena Woerner View Post
Tannerite® has filed suit against Riverside County in California for operating outside of law.
Really? Please post the complaint!

Also,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dena Woerner View Post
Read the law: Anyone who has malicious or reckless INTENT.
Quote:
18720. Every person who possesses any substance, material, or any
combination of substances or materials, with the intent to make any
destructive device or any explosive without first obtaining a valid
permit to make that destructive device or explosive, is guilty of a
felony, and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h)
of Section 1170 for two, three, or four years.
Note that the only intent required is to "make any destructive device or any explosive." Can you explain how Tannerite, once combined, is not an explosive nor a destructive device?
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Last edited by Tincon; 08-21-2013 at 2:55 PM..
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  #162  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:00 PM
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Dena, thanks for your input to this thread. It is nice to see that the Tannerite company is and has been following through on the legal defense promise, and that it has provided successful defenses in other states. Now I'm not intimately familiar with the case at hand. I do believe 18720 linked to in the post you quoted from another user could be argued away because of the intent clause. But if you'll notice, my prior response included 18720, and the 123xx bits I provided make no mention of intent. We can hope that future DA's are foolish and reckless enough to try to apply intent to Tannerite but I honestly don't think it's required. I still recommend the highest of caution to California residents as the authorities in this state are often very aggressive and care less about rights and morality than they do about case win ratios, pushing their own agendas, and advancing up the ladder of public dole.

Last edited by Some Velvet-Fisted Brute; 08-21-2013 at 3:16 PM.. Reason: clarification
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  #163  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:07 PM
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I'm not being cynical. I was responding to the comment that the forum should ignore everything I say because I represent Tannerite(r). I would think that the forum would be interested to hear from the company that they are talking about. Of course, it looks like that is not the case.
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  #164  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dena Woerner View Post
I'm not being cynical. I was responding to the comment that the forum should ignore everything I say because I represent Tannerite(r). I would think that the forum would be interested to hear from the company that they are talking about. Of course, it looks like that is not the case.
I'm very interested to see this complaint, are you going to post it? I'm also interested in hearing how combined Tannerite isn't "any destructive device or any explosive."
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  #165  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dena Woerner View Post
Read the law: Anyone who has malicious or reckless INTENT. Used as instructed and as a shot indicator, should not be reckless or malicious. Tannerite(r) is considered a legal commodity.

Tannerite® has filed suit against Riverside County in California for operating outside of law.
PC 18715 says reckless possession, not reckless intent. Big difference. If a fire broke out, a reckless possession conviction is a slam dunk (though 18715 is not a factor in this case as the op was not charged with it). While I personally agree that reactive targets are not destructive devices when used as intended, I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole until California's ridiculously vague laws get straightened out somehow or another.

Keep us posted on the suit against Riverside County. I'd actually like to see a new thread started & stickied with any details you have now, and updates as they become available. I'd love for the whole "is Tannerite legal or not" situation to be settled one way or the other.
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Last edited by jaymz; 08-21-2013 at 4:00 PM.. Reason: spelling
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  #166  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:42 PM
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  #167  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:47 PM
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Dena,

Can you please post the complaint in your case against Riverside County? Also, you didn't announce your affiliation - I did that for you, so please don't act like you came here in an attempt to work with us on this problem. I hope that is the case now but when you joined the thread you were simply doing what PR does; aligning brand messaging.

Personally I feel a suit from Tannerite is the best thing possible for your position. You are at odds with your customers right now; you want them to buy more of your product but DA's are prosecuting them for doing so. To add more complexity you have generic versions of your product to contend with.

Even if Tannerite is technically legal that still doesn't cut it unfortunately. As long as DA's will bring charges the average California customer is well advised to stay away from Tannerite, unless they explicitly want to be a test case at potentially great cost to themselves. Obviously this causes harm to the Tannerite brand and your ability to generate revenue in California. This is why I think Tannerite suing agencies that are overstepping their legal boundaries is a great idea. This is the only way to enjoin other agencies in caution with enforcement.

It is good to see a dialogue here and I don't want to discourage you from posting. However, taking the attitude that we owe you something for your presence when your previous posts encourage Californians to do something potentially illegal is just uncalled for. Realize that your motivation is to sell more product and ours is to keep people out of jail. Obviously one is far more important than the other and neither of us should lose sight of that.
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  #168  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:48 PM
Patrick Aherne Patrick Aherne is offline
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Look, Dena's protestations aside, if I stop you for a brake light out and happen to notice some Tannerite in your back seat, I'm witnessing a felony and have to take action. You're going to jail, your car is getting towed, your guns are getting logged in to evidence as instrumentalities of the crime, etc.

Don't risk your gun rights based on the assurances of a private enterprise. If you want to do Tannerite, just like if you want to use your BB-equipped rifles in non-neutered form, go to Nevada or some other state where it's legal.

It's heartbreaking to see this company assert their product is not illegal when according to CA law it is illegal. This would seem to be the ideal case for Dennis Herrera to take up about consumer protection, rather than the mag rebuild kits...
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  #169  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Patrick Aherne View Post
Look, Dena's protestations aside, if I stop you for a brake light out and happen to notice some Tannerite in your back seat, I'm witnessing a felony and have to take action. You're going to jail, your car is getting towed, your guns are getting logged in to evidence as instrumentalities of the crime, etc.

Don't risk your gun rights based on the assurances of a private enterprise. If you want to do Tannerite, just like if you want to use your BB-equipped rifles in non-neutered form, go to Nevada or some other state where it's legal.

It's heartbreaking to see this company assert their product is not illegal when according to CA law it is illegal. This would seem to be the ideal case for Dennis Herrera to take up about consumer protection, rather than the mag rebuild kits...
This is what is BS, if a police man walks into a gun store and sees tannerite on the shelves, that's not a felony? So somehow selling tannerite is legal for stores, but when you buy it, then it becomes illegal? Since when do laws not apply to stores? Does that mean stores can stock sticks of dynamite too, but it's just illegal if a person buys them? Something is not right with this whole thing....It seems many people here just want to basically not fight this battle because it's not important to them. That's about the size of it. That doesn't change the facts though that it probably is perfectly legal or stores couldn't sell it. If it is being said that this product, mixed or unmixed, is restricted, then stores would be getting busted also. There is no way around arguing that point.

Last edited by jcwatchdog; 08-21-2013 at 3:59 PM..
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  #170  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:07 PM
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Hmmm.... dont go after the stores, go after the consumers. then, after conviction, the consumers become prohibited persons... Back door gun control?



Just a thought....
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  #171  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:09 PM
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Stores can logically sell it, because it can be used legally. Namely by those persons who have a suitable explosives license. For example, read PC 18720, and look for the clause "... without first obtaining a valid permit to make that destructive device or explosive ...". Similar clauses exist in all other parts of the codes being discussed here. How do you think Hollywood makes things go boom?

A similar example are silencers. We all know that silencers are "illegal" in California (even if an individual were able to get the NFA paperwork, their possession is banned for individuals). But I've been in stores where silencers are sold, I've seen them in the glass cabinets, and I've even been to the machine shop of a gunsmith here in California who legally manufactures silencers. How come? There is a small set of people in California who can buy them. Therefore, it is legal for stores to stock and sell them. With Tannerite and clones, stores are not even required to verify that the buyer has the suitable paperwork (unlike silencers).

Now I'm quite sure that somewhere between 99% and 99.99% of all Tannerite sold in California is not used legally (namely not by people with explosives licenses). That doesn't change the fact that the mere sale of the unmixed parts is not illegal, as long as the seller has no intent to mix them and explode them.

This thread has gone on for many pages. There are lots and lots of posts that just say "but it must be legal because it is sold in stores" or "it is illegal because it's fun and all fun stuff is verboten in Kommiefornia". Both statements are nonsense. If those posts hadn't been made , it would be about half or a third of its current length, and easier to read and follow.
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  #172  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Aherne View Post
Look, Dena's protestations aside, if I stop you for a brake light out and happen to notice some Tannerite in your back seat, I'm witnessing a felony and have to take action. You're going to jail, your car is getting towed, your guns are getting logged in to evidence as instrumentalities of the crime, etc.
Not even gonna ask if the driver has an explosives permit? Just going straight to jail and have all your stuff impounded. Nice.
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  #173  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:23 PM
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I've purchased Tannerite in many occasions and I've not had any issues when rolled up on by Leo's.


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  #174  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
Stores can logically sell it, because it can be used legally. Namely by those persons who have a suitable explosives license. For example, read PC 18720, and look for the clause "... without first obtaining a valid permit to make that destructive device or explosive ...". Similar clauses exist in all other parts of the codes being discussed here. How do you think Hollywood makes things go boom?

A similar example are silencers. We all know that silencers are "illegal" in California (even if an individual were able to get the NFA paperwork, their possession is banned for individuals). But I've been in stores where silencers are sold, I've seen them in the glass cabinets, and I've even been to the machine shop of a gunsmith here in California who legally manufactures silencers. How come? There is a small set of people in California who can buy them. Therefore, it is legal for stores to stock and sell them. With Tannerite and clones, stores are not even required to verify that the buyer has the suitable paperwork (unlike silencers).

Now I'm quite sure that somewhere between 99% and 99.99% of all Tannerite sold in California is not used legally (namely not by people with explosives licenses). That doesn't change the fact that the mere sale of the unmixed parts is not illegal, as long as the seller has no intent to mix them and explode them.

This thread has gone on for many pages. There are lots and lots of posts that just say "but it must be legal because it is sold in stores" or "it is illegal because it's fun and all fun stuff is verboten in Kommiefornia". Both statements are nonsense. If those posts hadn't been made , it would be about half or a third of its current length, and easier to read and follow.
No, there are people stating that even the unmixed parts in your possession are a felony. So you're saying that the stores have explosive licenses to sell the tannerite? If not, they can't legally sell it and be in possession of it. This is not making sense. Like you state, the silencers need paperwork, to make them, stock them, and sell them, and people that buy them need paperwork to purchase them.

Tannerite apparently is ok to stock and sell for the store, unlocked just on the open shelves with other random things like CLP bottles and handgun grips. However you need an explosives license to buy it and use it? I doubt very strongly that any stores that stock this have any type of explosive license. If you ask them, they'd probably say "no, we don't have one, it's legal, you can buy them yourself it's right there on the shelf".
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  #175  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post

A similar example are silencers. We all know that silencers are "illegal" in California (even if an individual were able to get the NFA paperwork, their possession is banned for individuals). But I've been in stores where silencers are sold, I've seen them in the glass cabinets, and I've even been to the machine shop of a gunsmith here in California who legally manufactures silencers. How come? There is a small set of people in California who can buy them. Therefore, it is legal for stores to stock and sell them.
but only those stores that comply with CA law by having the proper "permits", namely an FFL and an SOT.


Quote:
With Tannerite and clones, stores are not even required to verify that the buyer has the suitable paperwork (unlike silencers).
why wouldn't those same stores need to have the proper state permits to possess CA-defined DDs. Does that mean that stores can just possess dynamite in CA without any CA DD paperwork because "someone" can legally buy it?
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  #176  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jaymz View Post
Not even gonna ask if the driver has an explosives permit? Just going straight to jail and have all your stuff impounded. Nice.
my guess is that the terms of the explosives permit require that the explosives be transported in a particular manner. Just having some explosives on the back seat visible like that would probably not be within terms of the permit and very well could be a felony even if you had a permit
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  #177  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:50 PM
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I would also be very interested in seeing the complaint against Riverside. A search of lexis and pacer (state and federal systems) turns up nothing. That does not mean there is no case on file as there might have been an issue with the names used in the complaint or something, but I cannot locate any complaint involving Tannerite LLC (or just Tannerite) and Riverside. Ms. Woerner, please post a pdf file, a link or a case number and filing location.
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  #178  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:56 PM
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I would also be very interested in seeing the complaint against Riverside. A search of lexis and pacer (state and federal systems) turns up nothing. That does not mean there is no case on file as there might have been an issue with the names used in the complaint or something, but I cannot locate any complaint involving Tannerite LLC (or just Tannerite) and Riverside. Ms. Woerner, please post a pdf file, a link or a case number and filing location.
Indeed. Right now I doubt very much this case has been filed. More BS.
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  #179  
Old 08-21-2013, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by IVC View Post
Very different scenario. You were both given the target and knew that it could potentially be problematic, so you checked it out. When you're given something, it's reasonable to check it out.

The OP was an unsuspecting shopper at the legal store who saw it on the shelf, bought it and used it as intended, just to learn that the store sold him something illegal which got him in trouble. It's not that reasonable to go and check out every single item one buys at the legal store to verify there are no hidden tripwires.

When was the last time you checked online whether groceries you bought were legal in CA? Whether that liver pate contained foie gras? Whether the can of tuna contained any protected species?

Again, the problem is not whether the Tannerite is illegal (which it is - there are prosecutions to prove it), but whether allowing stores to sell it, then going after those who buy it is just another scheme for creating legal mine field with the primary goal of discouraging anything gun related in CA.
Its kind of like this. Before I use something I check into it. Maye not if its legal but how it works. Now the first time I watched a car loaded with this stuff was blown to BITS I said nope not for me! I thought there was no way in hell this would be legal. I passed the info on and was laughed at by shooters.
I mean so common sense goes a long way here.
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  #180  
Old 08-21-2013, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dena Woerner View Post
Read the law: Anyone who has malicious or reckless INTENT. Used as instructed and as a shot indicator, should not be reckless or malicious. Tannerite(r) is considered a legal commodity.

Tannerite® has filed suit against Riverside County in California for operating outside of law.
You're misreading CA PC 18720 which has no malicious/reckless component to the violation.

Last edited by stix213; 08-21-2013 at 6:05 PM..
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  #181  
Old 08-21-2013, 7:49 PM
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No, there are people stating that even the unmixed parts in your possession are a felony.
I disagree. Possessing the unmixed parts is legal, if one doesn't have intent to create an explosive from them. In the same fashion that it is legal to possess fertilizer and aluminum powder.

A gun store that has no intent to create an explosive is, as far as I know, not breaking any law. It does not need a license, just like your local home center doesn't need a license to sell ammonium nitrate. The intent of the gun store (or its employess) is not to create an explosive, or to make it explode, but to sell the non-explosive components. The situation with a store selling dynamite is entirely different, as that material is already an explosive.

I think in theory it would even be legal for a end user to buy Tannerite, if they have no intent to mix it and make it explode. For example, I might buy it because my local garden store has run out of fertilizer, and spread it on my petunias. A local cop might still arrest me, and a local DA might still charge me, but if I had really good evidence to demonstrate that it is intended for gardening (or home decoration with the metal dust or similar non-explosive uses), it seems that I would get off.

The thing that many posters here repeatedly ignore is that (AFAIK) Tannerite is illegal to possess in California if the possessor has the intent to mix it into an explosive, in particular if they have the intent to make it into an exploding target, in particular if they have already shot at it and exploded it.
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  #182  
Old 08-21-2013, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
I disagree. Possessing the unmixed parts is legal, if one doesn't have intent to create an explosive from them. In the same fashion that it is legal to possess fertilizer and aluminum powder.

A gun store that has no intent to create an explosive is, as far as I know, not breaking any law. It does not need a license, just like your local home center doesn't need a license to sell ammonium nitrate. The intent of the gun store (or its employess) is not to create an explosive, or to make it explode, but to sell the non-explosive components. The situation with a store selling dynamite is entirely different, as that material is already an explosive.
what if that home center is selling that AN packaged with a 5-gallon can of Fuel Oil? Do you think that CADOJ would look the other way on that as well?
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  #183  
Old 08-21-2013, 9:50 PM
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what if that home center is selling that AN packaged with a 5-gallon can of Fuel Oil? Do you think that CADOJ would look the other way on that as well?
We can make it even worse: They could sell a combo back of ammonium nitrate and nitromethane. For those people whose hobbies include BOTH gardening and model airplanes. I remember reading that nitromethane does even better in this mixture than fuel oil.

But: Does the home center have intent to mix them? No. Their intent is to stock it, sell and, and make a buck. The DoJ (or ATF or local PD or ...) can not get them for possessing and explosive. They might be able to get them for conspiracy, aiding and abetting though. Pretty hard to prove though in the home center case (a lot easier in the gun store case, since Tannerite is clearly designed to be mixed and exploded, not designed to be used for gardening and crafts).
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  #184  
Old 08-22-2013, 6:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
Really? Please post the complaint!

Also,





Note that the only intent required is to "make any destructive device or any explosive." Can you explain how Tannerite, once combined, is not an explosive nor a destructive device?
Exploding targets are shot indicators. They are only explosives if you use them to blow up anything other than the target. All of this, of course, is up to interpretation. I am not a lawyer. I am simply showing how the way the law is written, it is left for DA's and consumers to interpret. There is not law on the books that specifically says that Tannerite(r) brand targets are illegal. So everyone should be saying "exploding targets" and not Tannerite(r). This thread started with "aka Tannerite" in the subject line. That is why I started posting. Our company has been singled out in this on this forum.
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  #185  
Old 08-22-2013, 7:01 AM
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Originally Posted by naeco81 View Post
Dena,


It is good to see a dialogue here and I don't want to discourage you from posting. However, taking the attitude that we owe you something for your presence when your previous posts encourage Californians to do something potentially illegal is just uncalled for. Realize that your motivation is to sell more product and ours is to keep people out of jail. Obviously one is far more important than the other and neither of us should lose sight of that.
You don't owe me anything and I'm not encouraging Californians to do anything other than read the law before they use the product, to please use the product as instructed and directed, quit making ridiculous videos of the misuse of our product, and don't use our name unless you know that a Tannerite(r) brand target was used.

I'm here if anyone has any questions about the product.
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  #186  
Old 08-22-2013, 7:02 AM
Dena Woerner Dena Woerner is offline
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Originally Posted by Some Velvet-Fisted Brute View Post
Dena, thanks for your input to this thread. It is nice to see that the Tannerite company is and has been following through on the legal defense promise, and that it has provided successful defenses in other states. Now I'm not intimately familiar with the case at hand. I do believe 18720 linked to in the post you quoted from another user could be argued away because of the intent clause. But if you'll notice, my prior response included 18720, and the 123xx bits I provided make no mention of intent. We can hope that future DA's are foolish and reckless enough to try to apply intent to Tannerite but I honestly don't think it's required. I still recommend the highest of caution to California residents as the authorities in this state are often very aggressive and care less about rights and morality than they do about case win ratios, pushing their own agendas, and advancing up the ladder of public dole.
Thank you!
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  #187  
Old 08-22-2013, 7:09 AM
Dena Woerner Dena Woerner is offline
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I would also be very interested in seeing the complaint against Riverside. A search of lexis and pacer (state and federal systems) turns up nothing. That does not mean there is no case on file as there might have been an issue with the names used in the complaint or something, but I cannot locate any complaint involving Tannerite LLC (or just Tannerite) and Riverside. Ms. Woerner, please post a pdf file, a link or a case number and filing location.
I'll see if I can post it. The name of the company is Tannerite(r) Sports, LLC.
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  #188  
Old 08-22-2013, 7:20 AM
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I disclosed who I represent and why I am posting. If you don't want Tannerite's answers to your questions, then yes, ignore everything I write. I have no personal opinion here. I chimed in because there are a lot of people with questions and there are a lot of answers being written with no company representation offering answers. We are not answering questions to sell more product--this isn't a marketing scheme. We answering questions to help people stay out of trouble. We don't want anyone getting hurt or in trouble by using our product. We also want people to understand that Tannerite(r) is a brand and not a generic term for exploding targets.
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Originally Posted by Dena Woerner View Post
Exploding targets are shot indicators. They are only explosives if you use them to blow up anything other than the target. All of this, of course, is up to interpretation. I am not a lawyer. I am simply showing how the way the law is written, it is left for DA's and consumers to interpret. There is not law on the books that specifically says that Tannerite(r) brand targets are illegal. So everyone should be saying "exploding targets" and not Tannerite(r). This thread started with "aka Tannerite" in the subject line. That is why I started posting. Our company has been singled out in this on this forum.
Funny, the way you came off in the prior post you made it sound to me like you were their lawyer.
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  #189  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:39 AM
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Tincon Tincon is offline
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Originally Posted by Dena Woerner View Post
I'll see if I can post it. The name of the company is Tannerite(r) Sports, LLC.
Why would you not be able to post it? It's a matter of public record once filed, and it would be great PR for you even if it was total garbage. This issue is no one seems to be able to find your complaint in court records. It seems to me that as the filing party, your would certainly have access to it, if it exists.

ETA: I'm not even going to comment on your novel legal theory that explosive are not explosives if they only blow up "targets".
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Last edited by Tincon; 08-22-2013 at 8:42 AM..
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  #190  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:50 PM
Bengal Bengal is offline
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Why would you not be able to post it? It's a matter of public record once filed, and it would be great PR for you even if it was total garbage. This issue is no one seems to be able to find your complaint in court records. It seems to me that as the filing party, your would certainly have access to it, if it exists.
Because it doesn't exist. I've been hearing about this for close to a year in an attempt to "help" out my case but it never materialized. I received a picture of the front page of the draft with no case number but that is it. I've been asking for this for quite some time now.

Quote:
ETA: I'm not even going to comment on your novel legal theory that explosive are not explosives if they only blow up "targets".
You do know that the side of the box says "Explosives"? Kind of hard to argue that it's not an explosive when there are videos showing cars being ripped apart and the side of the box says explosives. Are you going to convince a California Jury otherwise?

Again, all binary explosives are illegal in California and you will be charged with a felony. As much as Dena attempts to differentiate among different brands, it doesn't matter to the over zealous DAs in this state. Good luck to those that fail to listen this warning, but if you are charged, please contact me and maybe we can work together on a solution to this problem.
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  #191  
Old 08-22-2013, 5:18 PM
Patrick Aherne Patrick Aherne is offline
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Not even gonna ask if the driver has an explosives permit? Just going straight to jail and have all your stuff impounded. Nice.
Throttle back, turbo. Folks with explosives permits usually have those little DOT placards on their vehicles and are all too ready to present documentation. I was presenting a hypothetical recreational user of binary targets case. Once again, some guy from the internet knows how to do my job better than me.
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  #192  
Old 08-22-2013, 5:22 PM
Patrick Aherne Patrick Aherne is offline
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This is what is BS, if a police man walks into a gun store and sees tannerite on the shelves, that's not a felony? So somehow selling tannerite is legal for stores, but when you buy it, then it becomes illegal? Since when do laws not apply to stores? Does that mean stores can stock sticks of dynamite too, but it's just illegal if a person buys them? Something is not right with this whole thing....It seems many people here just want to basically not fight this battle because it's not important to them. That's about the size of it. That doesn't change the facts though that it probably is perfectly legal or stores couldn't sell it. If it is being said that this product, mixed or unmixed, is restricted, then stores would be getting busted also. There is no way around arguing that point.
I don't have any stores that sell binary targets in the jurisdiction where I work.
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  #193  
Old 08-22-2013, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Patrick Aherne View Post
Throttle back, turbo. Folks with explosives permits usually have those little DOT placards on their vehicles and are all too ready to present documentation. I was presenting a hypothetical recreational user of binary targets case. Once again, some guy from the internet knows how to do my job better than me.
.........
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Last edited by jaymz; 08-23-2013 at 8:00 AM.. Reason: Decided that being involved in a pissing contest is a bad idea.
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  #194  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:22 PM
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Josey Wales Josey Wales is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Aherne View Post
I don't have any stores that sell binary targets in the jurisdiction where I work.
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Originally Posted by jaymz View Post
I sure hope that you don't fabricate stuff in the field like you do on the Internet. I never said that I know how to do your job better than you do.

Sorry for the temporary thread derailment.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic.........
Relax, jaymz....the guy works in the bastion of liberty. He knows what he's doing.
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What don't you people understand?
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He wasn't banned because of affiliation, he was banned because he was a dick.
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  #195  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bengal View Post
Again, all binary explosives are illegal in California and you will be charged with a felony. As much as Dena attempts to differentiate among different brands, it doesn't matter to the over zealous DAs in this state. Good luck to those that fail to listen this warning, but if you are charged, please contact me and maybe we can work together on a solution to this problem.
Charged is one thing...CONVICTED is another.
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Answer the door like I do, 1911 in a thigh holster, katana tucked in to my belt, a fine coating of baby oil and nothing else.

Very few ever return.
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Originally Posted by VictorFranko View Post
What don't you people understand?
Turner's is the "Pep Boys" of gun shops.
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
He wasn't banned because of affiliation, he was banned because he was a dick.
And frankly there are only two dicks allowed on CGN, ivanimal and me.
Ivan very rarely exercises his prerogative however.
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  #196  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Josey Wales View Post
Charged is one thing...CONVICTED is another.
The difference being something like $50,000.
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  #197  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:45 PM
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The difference being something like $50,000.
So really...it's not about the alleged crime but the money to fight it. The DA makes it so expensive to defend yourself hence the 'plea deal'. Nice.
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Answer the door like I do, 1911 in a thigh holster, katana tucked in to my belt, a fine coating of baby oil and nothing else.

Very few ever return.
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Originally Posted by VictorFranko View Post
What don't you people understand?
Turner's is the "Pep Boys" of gun shops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
He wasn't banned because of affiliation, he was banned because he was a dick.
And frankly there are only two dicks allowed on CGN, ivanimal and me.
Ivan very rarely exercises his prerogative however.
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  #198  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:52 PM
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So really...it's not about the alleged crime but the money to fight it. The DA makes it so expensive to defend yourself hence the 'plea deal'. Nice.
There is also the substantial risk of going to prison if you lose...
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  #199  
Old 08-22-2013, 9:01 PM
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There is also the substantial risk of going to prison if you lose...
You really think someone will get prison time for using a product as listed on the container, legally sold in this state? Can anyone cite who is in prison for using Tannerite in the prescribed manner?
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Answer the door like I do, 1911 in a thigh holster, katana tucked in to my belt, a fine coating of baby oil and nothing else.

Very few ever return.
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Originally Posted by VictorFranko View Post
What don't you people understand?
Turner's is the "Pep Boys" of gun shops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
He wasn't banned because of affiliation, he was banned because he was a dick.
And frankly there are only two dicks allowed on CGN, ivanimal and me.
Ivan very rarely exercises his prerogative however.
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  #200  
Old 08-22-2013, 9:10 PM
2nd Mass 2nd Mass is offline
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Originally Posted by Josey Wales View Post
You really think someone will get prison time for using a product as listed on the container, legally sold in this state? Can anyone cite who is in prison for using Tannerite in the prescribed manner?
There's a kid facing possible 5 years jail time for dropping dry ice into a water filled can at disneyland. Yes, in Cali it's very foreseeable that someone could go to jail especially if they don't have $50k to shell out on a defense for using "shot indicators".
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