What the average Street Officer knows about Petrua

[lear60man]

I helped out my wife, who has a side business at an Arts and crafts fare here in the Valley today. One couple need a hand carrying their purchases to their car. The husband was a Venture Co. Deputy. I asked him how he and his colleagues felt about the 9th circuit court ruling on Good Cause. He hadn't heard about it. So I took a minute to explain how Open Carry was struck down so the 9th struck down the Good Cause requirement etc.... Not that I expect LE to be up on ALL upcoming laws, but it was at least educational for both of us.

As we were packing up, a LA County Sheriff cruiser pulled up and it was a buddy I hadnt seen since 2008. He was a Deputy now. We BS for a half an hour then I asked him the same question. Same response. Although not necessarily against it, he did say it would make his job a lot harder.

Like California legal Black Rifles....I guess it will take time to filter down to the rank and file. So spread the word.

[CCWFacts]

In just about every state that has gone shall-issue, when they interview street-level LEOs before the change, some of them are supportive, but most have some hesitations, and say it will make their jobs harder and more dangerous.

Then they interview them again a year or two after the change and LEOs who were initially hesitant about the change have become supportive. They learn that the kind of people who have LTCs are also the kind of people who almost never have LE contacts, and there is a mild deterrent effect on crime, so street-level LEOs end up being somewhere between tolerant and supportive.

This is a very consistent pattern and the same will happen here.

Political-level LEOs, like sheriffs and chiefs, will continue to oppose it, because they are operating at a political level.

Some street-level LEOs here will be upset because of the economic implications. Quite a few rich people here hire off-duty cops as "drivers". Those gigs will become a lot more competitive. Who would you rather hire, a regular guy from LAPD, or a former IDF soldier with combat experience? In various Jewish temples around here I often see off-duty LAPD officers, obviously being hired as security. Some of these temples may opt to choose IDF veterans now, for example.

[TKM]

The average Street Officer can probably spell his name correctly.

[rivraton]

Originally Posted by TKM

The average Street Officer can probably spell his name correctly.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by TKM

The average Street Officer can probably spell his name correctly.

Originally Posted by rivraton

OK, we can be nicer than that.

Consider our average Officer Friendly. Just how much effect on his/her daily duties does a court case have, before numerous legal analyses get boiled down to the 'weekly legal update' or the pre-shift briefing?

Most LEO are not lawyers (I know a couple who are); for that matter, it seems that most LEO are not 'gun-people'.

[ElvenSoul]

Sgt Shultz knows nothing, sees nothing, and hears nothing!

[dustoff31]

Why would the average street cop even care about the Peruta decision?

If he finds you with a concealed weapon, you either have a permit or you don't. If you do have one, he most likely couldn't care less what your justification for obtaining it was.

[lear60man]

Originally Posted by dustoff31

Why would the average street cop even care about the Peruta decision?

If he finds you with a concealed weapon, you either have a permit or you don't. If you do have one, he most likely couldn't care less what your justification for obtaining it was.

Two things that kinda struck me interesting.

One: This is obviously a huge deal to the average citizen, not the average officer. Thus the lack of interest / water cooler talk.

Two: I had more police interaction today than in ten years. The customer was really cool and we chatted about the flea market and his wife was all into the same type of stuff mine was into etc. Only when I felt comfortable did I bring it up, and im glad I did. The Ventura guy mentioned that it was only a matter of time as the majority of states already have 'Shall issue'. He suggested I get more CCWs so I can carry in the states I go to. But he just hasn't heard a thing about it yet.

I think the recent ruling will be a great bridge for 2A supporters to close the gap with LE. Less 'Us' VS 'Them' and more of a 'Hey bad guys, the tables are turning' mentality. So im taking every opportunity inquire and inform when the moment is right.

[ElvenSoul]

Originally Posted by lear60man

Two things that kinda struck me interesting.

One: This is obviously a huge deal to the average citizen, not the average officer. Thus the lack of interest / water cooler talk.

Two: I had more police interaction today than in ten years. The customer was really cool and we chatted about the flea market and his wife was all into the same type of stuff mine was into etc. Only when I felt comfortable did I bring it up, and im glad I did. The Ventura guy mentioned that it was only a matter of time as the majority of states already have 'Shall issue'. He suggested I get more CCWs so I can carry in the states I go to. But he just hasn't heard a thing about it yet.

I think the recent ruling will be a great bridge for 2A supporters to close the gap with LE. Less 'Us' VS 'Them' and more of a 'Hey bad guys, the tables are turning' mentality. So im taking every opportunity inquire and inform when the moment is right.

^^^^^^This!

[gt350pilot]

Strangely, my first indication that the decision had been handed down was from a LEO friend who texted me and another friend that are in the process of getting our CCWs. He stated that the info regarding the ruling had come down from his superiors and that they were reviewing their policies in regard to issuing.

[CBR_rider]

I've been a bit upset that at my agency I haven't been able to be the first tospring word of the decision on anyone I have spoken with about it (ten "average" guys so far). I have yet to meet a one who thinks it is a bad thing.

As already mentioned, it's really not a big deal to rank and file LEO's at this point. #1: It still COULD swing another way if it gets heard en banc. #2 It doesn't really effect my job much (at least definitely not until more permits are actually issued) #3 If you really want to hear some people getting worked up over it; eavesdrop on some city and County elected official/lawyer conversations going on these days over permits...

[ElvenSoul]

Kewl the big problem is going to be dealing with all the no go businesses out there.

[doubletapm4]

All tho I didn't get much of a response... I did have a LBPD Sgt stop by the barber shop the other day and I brought it up... all he said was "yeah I herd there was something happening with that"

Didn't seem to concern about it...

[MA5177]

Anyone who obtains a CCW is a law abiding "good guy".
Most likely will never be a problem for LEO or have any contact.

I know for me personally when I get my permit and if I do get pulled over I will make certain they know there is a weapon present.

They will appreciate it

[Boblaw]

Hand him your card first and then inform... that way he won't have to unscrew his gun from your ear

[MudCamper]

Originally Posted by Librarian

most LEO are not 'gun-people'

This.

[bodger]

Originally Posted by lear60man

I helped out my wife, who has a side business at an Arts and crafts fare here in the Valley today. One couple need a hand carrying their purchases to their car. The husband was a Venture Co. Deputy. I asked him how he and his colleagues felt about the 9th circuit court ruling on Good Cause. He hadn't heard about it. So I took a minute to explain how Open Carry was struck down so the 9th struck down the Good Cause requirement etc.... Not that I expect LE to be up on ALL upcoming laws, but it was at least educational for both of us.

As we were packing up, a LA County Sheriff cruiser pulled up and it was a buddy I hadnt seen since 2008. He was a Deputy now. We BS for a half an hour then I asked him the same question. Same response. Although not necessarily against it, he did say it would make his job a lot harder.

Like California legal Black Rifles....I guess it will take time to filter down to the rank and file. So spread the word.

Did he say why he thought it would make his job a lot harder?

[Wojtek]

I love how everything is always being "reviewed." Wish I could get away with that.

[Doheny]

The decision is less than a week old and you expect cops to already know about it? It's not even finalized yet.

Look at all the various questions being asked by CalGunners about what's happening. If we're reading about it daily and don't have all the facts, we can't expect anyone else to. We don't even have any reports of permits being issued under the new decision yet. In fact, Orange County's website says things could change.

When things are final, cops will be trained on the issue. Really, for the cop on the street, nothing much will change other than encountering more people with permits. There is no need for them to know the entire background and history of a particular law.


Sent from my iPhone; please pardon typos & edits.

[Doheny]

Originally Posted by dustoff31

Why would the average street cop even care about the Peruta decision?

If he finds you with a concealed weapon, you either have a permit or you don't. If you do have one, he most likely couldn't care less what your justification for obtaining it was.

Agreed

[jb7706]

The average street cop does not keep tabs on the latest gun cases, in most cases he probably does not even understand the complexity of CA gun laws and has as much input into issuance policy as I do. Carry legally and keep your nose clean (because that's what normal people do anyway) and you will likely never have a problem.

[Johnny_Utah]

Originally Posted by MudCamper

This.

Regarding the statement that most Leo's are not "Gun people":

Obviously, this statement will change depending on the state (or even county). I grew up in Georgia, near Stone Mountain. My father had several friends on the force there and from what I gathered, many of them were VERY pro-gun and up on the law. I know this is anecdotal but in the south at least, it seemed like most officers were up on their gun rights.

Just an observation

[Edgy01]

Most LEO have no idea what the latest rules mean, much less how they affect their daily operations. We have to remember (although we often forget) that firearms represent only a small percentage of the issues the police deal with on a daily basis (thankfully!)

However, I take great exception with their quick answer that a higher issuance of LTC will make their jobs harder. It may make their jobs harder, but I believe that it will make us all ultimately much safer.

Statistically, the average LTC civilian is less likely to accidently shoot a bystander while the average LEO will. This has been proven time after time. The citizen with the LTC usually is already on the scene and thus knows the principles--who's the good guy, and who are the bad; the LEO when they first arrive on the scene are first a potential target and second concerned with sorting out who's side is whose. It is during the intervening time that bystanders do get accidently shot. The statistics bear this out.

Dan

[Country_Jim]

I may not be an average street officer, but I am a lieutenant (mostly a desk jockey) in a bay area law enforcement agency. I am also a huge believer in the 2nd Amendment. That being said, I am very excited about the Peruta decision. I believe that Californians will be safer with the ability to defend themselves and their loved ones in a deadly force situation.

Stay safe.

[Connman]

I know two LEO's both are "Gun people"

.... I don't think you should be shocked if a officer does not know about the Peruta decision. I would see being suprised if a 2A lawyer was not aware but Street officers? Come on.

[lear60man]

Originally Posted by bodger

Did he say why he thought it would make his job a lot harder?

Yes, he mentioned a domestic violence scenario where emotions are running high and one party has a gun on hand.

The other scenario was a basic scuffle and he sees / feels a gun. Now it's time to filter out who should have a gun and who is just 'packing'.

I don't necessarly agree or disagree. But rights are rights.