Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 11-10-2013, 5:12 PM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 12,112
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrist View Post
I would agree since it sounds like he is more concerned with the agency being sued and how it would look rather than what the law actually says and the suspect did.
Give the guy a break, it sounds like he is one of the new breed who works for a department with a no pursuit policy and their main concern is risk management. He probably wasn't around back in the day when they let us do real police work and put the blame where it belonged, on the suspect. Can't really blame him if the that is the only environment he knows. That's one of the reasons that I retired as soon as I could, my department was starting to go that way. They didn't want people doing proactive police work so the job just wasn't fun anymore.
__________________


You can't buy happiness but you can buy guns and that's pretty much the same thing.

NRA Benefactor Member

Police brutality? Visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114 to learn more about "isolated incidents"
  #42  
Old 11-10-2013, 6:44 PM
yzernie's Avatar
yzernie yzernie is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Oak Hills/Hesperia, Ca.
Posts: 5,473
iTrader: 565 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yzernie View Post
Are you a currently employeed LEO?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
Affirmative.
With all due respect, and saying what most of us are thinking, if you are/were a patrol supervisor I'm glad I never worked for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
Give the guy a break, it sounds like he is one of the new breed who works for a department with a no pursuit policy and their main concern is risk management. He probably wasn't around back in the day when they let us do real police work and put the blame where it belonged, on the suspect. Can't really blame him if the that is the only environment he knows. That's one of the reasons that I retired as soon as I could, my department was starting to go that way. They didn't want people doing proactive police work so the job just wasn't fun anymore.
My thoughts exactly. To many boot lickers around these days to get any real cop work accomplised.
__________________
My Commercial Sales Ad >>> http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=257865

TinStarSupply@aol.com

The satisfaction of a job well done is to be the one who has done it

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazoE
I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.

Last edited by yzernie; 11-10-2013 at 6:47 PM..
  #43  
Old 11-10-2013, 7:23 PM
WyattandDoc WyattandDoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 769
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yzernie View Post
With all due respect, and saying what most of us are thinking, if you are/were a patrol supervisor I'm glad I never worked for you.



My thoughts exactly. To many boot lickers around these days to get any real cop work accomplised.
Patrol Supervisor? He's at least a Commander or will be one soon. Unfortunately!!
__________________
Knives don't stab people, cars don't drive drunk, eating utensils don't make you fat and pencils don't mis-spell words.
  #44  
Old 11-10-2013, 8:05 PM
wattspd wattspd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 68
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrist View Post
17004.7. (a) The immunity provided by this section is in addition to any other immunity provided by law. The adoption of a policy by a public agency pursuant to this section is discretionary.

(b) A public agency employing peace officers that adopts a written policy on vehicular pursuits complying with subdivision (c) is immune from liability for civil damages for personal injury to or death of any person or damage to property resulting from the collision of a vehicle being operated by an actual or suspected violator of the law who is being, has been, or believes he or she is being or has been, pursued in a motor vehicle by a peace officer employed by the public entity.

(c) If the public entity has adopted a policy for the safe conduct of vehicular pursuits by peace officers, it shall meet all of the following minimum standards:

(1) It provides that, if available, there be supervisory control of the pursuit.

(2) It provides procedures for designating the primary pursuit vehicle and for determining the total number of vehicles to be permitted to participate at one time in the pursuit.

(3) It provides procedures for coordinating operations with other jurisdictions.

(4) It provides guidelines for determining when the interests of public safety and effective law enforcement justify a vehicular pursuit and when a vehicular pursuit should not be initiated or should be terminated.

(d) A determination of whether a policy adopted pursuant to subdivision

(c) complies with that subdivision is a question of law for the court.

(e) This section shall become inoperative on July 1, 2007, and, as of January 1, 2008, is repealed, unless a later enacted statute that is enacted before January 1, 2008, deletes or extends the dates on which it becomes inoperative and is repealed.


AND DONE
Do you really comprehend this VC? You should refer to section (4) and roll that around in your mind. It means that you will be seconded guessed and your judgment will be under extreme scrutiny if a GBI or fatal occurs at the hands of the suspect or worse the officer. If you want to believe that your cited vc gives you the green light 100% of the time in every possible situation than good luck to you.

You should take the time and do some research on how many departments payout on pursuit tc's at the hands of the suspect. I have and you should as well if your a current leo.

You should refer to this as well...
http://libcat.post.ca.gov/dbtw-wpd/d.../166275446.pdf

And you should read the full version of your cited VC...

17004.7. (a) The immunity provided by this section is in addition
to any other immunity provided by law. The adoption of a vehicle
pursuit policy by a public agency pursuant to this section is
discretionary.
(b) (1) A public agency employing peace officers that adopts and
promulgates a written policy on, and provides regular and periodic
training on an annual basis for, vehicular pursuits complying with
subdivisions (c) and (d) is immune from liability for civil damages
for personal injury to or death of any person or damage to property
resulting from the collision of a vehicle being operated by an actual
or suspected violator of the law who is being, has been, or believes
he or she is being or has been, pursued in a motor vehicle by a
peace officer employed by the public entity.
(2) Promulgation of the written policy under paragraph (1) shall
include, but is not limited to, a requirement that all peace officers
of the public agency certify in writing that they have received,
read, and understand the policy. The failure of an individual officer
to sign a certification shall not be used to impose liability on an
individual officer or a public entity.
(c) A policy for the safe conduct of motor vehicle pursuits by
peace officers shall meet all of the following minimum standards:
(1) Determine under what circumstances to initiate a pursuit. The
policy shall define a "pursuit," articulate the reasons for which a
pursuit is authorized, and identify the issues that should be
considered in reaching the decision to pursue. It should also address
the importance of protecting the public and balancing the known or
reasonably suspected offense, and the apparent need for immediate
capture against the risks to peace officers, innocent motorists, and
others to protect the public.
(2) Determine the total number of law enforcement vehicles
authorized to participate in a pursuit. Establish the authorized
number of law enforcement units and supervisors who may be involved
in a pursuit, describe the responsibility of each authorized unit and
the role of each peace officer and supervisor, and specify if and
when additional units are authorized.
(3) Determine the communication procedures to be followed during a
pursuit. Specify pursuit coordination and control procedures and
determine assignment of communications responsibility by unit and
organizational entity.
(4) Determine the role of the supervisor in managing and
controlling a pursuit. Supervisory responsibility shall include
management and control of a pursuit, assessment of risk factors
associated with a pursuit, and when to terminate a pursuit.
(5) Determine driving tactics and the circumstances under which
the tactics may be appropriate.
(6) Determine authorized pursuit intervention tactics. Pursuit
intervention tactics include, but are not limited to, blocking,
ramming, boxing, and roadblock procedures. The policy shall specify
under what circumstances and conditions each approved tactic is
authorized to be used.
(7) Determine the factors to be considered by a peace officer and
supervisor in determining speeds throughout a pursuit. Evaluation
shall take into consideration public safety, peace officer safety,
and safety of the occupants in a fleeing vehicle.
(8) Determine the role of air support, where available. Air
support shall include coordinating the activities of resources on the
ground, reporting on the progress of a pursuit, and providing peace
officers and supervisors with information to evaluate whether or not
to continue the pursuit.
(9) Determine when to terminate or discontinue a pursuit. Factors
to be considered include, but are not limited to, all of the
following:
(A) Ongoing evaluation of risk to the public or pursuing peace
officer.
(B) The protection of the public, given the known or reasonably
suspected offense and apparent need for immediate capture against the
risks to the public and peace officers.
(C) Vehicular or pedestrian traffic safety and volume.
(D) Weather conditions.
(E) Traffic conditions.
(F) Speeds.
(G) Availability of air support.
(H) Procedures when an offender is identified and may be
apprehended at a later time or when the location of the pursuit
vehicle is no longer known.
(10) Determine procedures for apprehending an offender following a
pursuit. Safety of the public and peace officers during the law
enforcement effort to capture an offender shall be an important
factor.
(11) Determine effective coordination, management, and control of
interjurisdictional pursuits. The policy shall include, but shall not
be limited to, all of the following:
(A) Supervisory control and management of a pursuit that enters
another jurisdiction.
(B) Communications and notifications among the agencies involved.
(C) Involvement in another jurisdiction's pursuit.
(D) Roles and responsibilities of units and coordination,
management, and control at the termination of an interjurisdictional
pursuit.
(12) Reporting and postpursuit analysis as required by Section
14602.1. Establish the level and procedures of postpursuit analysis,
review, and feedback. Establish procedures for written postpursuit
review and followup.
(d) "Regular and periodic training" under this section means
annual training that shall include, at a minimum, coverage of each of
the subjects and elements set forth in subdivision (c) and that
shall comply, at a minimum, with the training guidelines established
pursuant to Section 13519.8 of the Penal Code.
(e) The requirements of subdivision (c) represent minimum policy
standards and do not limit an agency from adopting additional policy
requirements. The requirements in subdivision (c) are consistent with
the 1995 California Law Enforcement Vehicle Pursuit Guidelines
developed by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training
pursuant to Section 13519.8 of the Penal Code that will assist
agencies in the development of their pursuit policies. Nothing in
this section precludes the adoption of a policy that limits or
restricts pursuits.
(f) A determination of whether a public agency has complied with
subdivisions (c) and (d) is a question of law for the court.
(g) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2007.

Last edited by wattspd; 11-10-2013 at 8:14 PM..
  #45  
Old 11-10-2013, 8:34 PM
wattspd wattspd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 68
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yzernie View Post
With all due respect, and saying what most of us are thinking, if you are/were a patrol supervisor I'm glad I never worked for you.



My thoughts exactly. To many boot lickers around these days to get any real cop work accomplised.
What you might consider "Real Cop Work" is probably different from your day to current day.

The running & gunning days are over. If you don't watch your actions you will easily find yourself unemployed or in court facing a legal actions. Most cops talk a big game about how they're a cowboy but when the rubber hits the road they think about their family, mortgage, car payment, boat payment, school tuition, heath benefits, & retirement before they act.
  #46  
Old 11-10-2013, 8:34 PM
oddjob oddjob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lodi, California
Posts: 2,081
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Good shoot....

Did he ever get his cigarettes?
  #47  
Old 11-10-2013, 9:21 PM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 12,112
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
What you might consider "Real Cop Work" is probably different from your day to current day.

The running & gunning days are over. If you don't watch your actions you will easily find yourself unemployed or in court facing a legal actions. Most cops talk a big game about how they're a cowboy but when the rubber hits the road they think about their family, mortgage, car payment, boat payment, school tuition, heath benefits, & retirement before they act.
Wow, if I ran around thinking about all of that all the time, I never would have been able to get the job done. Proper training and technique, also known as doing the job right, takes care of the rest. The thinking that you exhibit is not only one of the the reasons that I retired, it is also the type of thinking that can cause you to hesitate and get you injured or killed. Too many departments are getting away from law enforcement and turning to risk management. Along with that comes doing not what is right, but what is politically correct. They are turning into nothing but after the fact report takers. Now when I talk to many or my old coworkers, they tell me that they wish that they could have gotten out when I did because the current attitude is to not be proactive, just handle the calls that you are sent to and keep a low profile. That is not police work, but that is what management wants. It would be interesting to see what would happen if management was honest with the public and told them that.
__________________


You can't buy happiness but you can buy guns and that's pretty much the same thing.

NRA Benefactor Member

Police brutality? Visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114 to learn more about "isolated incidents"
  #48  
Old 11-10-2013, 9:52 PM
tyrist tyrist is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,565
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
Do you really comprehend this VC? You should refer to section (4) and roll that around in your mind. It means that you will be seconded guessed and your judgment will be under extreme scrutiny if a GBI or fatal occurs at the hands of the suspect or worse the officer. If you want to believe that your cited vc gives you the green light 100% of the time in every possible situation than good luck to you.

You should take the time and do some research on how many departments payout on pursuit tc's at the hands of the suspect. I have and you should as well if your a current leo.
Yes I do comprehend and already been through the results before. I fully realize there is no green light 100% of the time and it's completely agency dependent.

Further I don't care how many departments pay out on pursuit traffic collisions. Police departments make payouts for all kinds of reasons and many of them have nothing to do with the law and more to do with public opinion and politics. I just follow the policy and the law which is all I can do.
  #49  
Old 11-10-2013, 11:00 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 4,193
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrist View Post

Police departments make payouts for all kinds of reasons and many of them have nothing to do with the law and more to do with public opinion and politics.
Usually though it is because someone at city hall, makes a decision that it is cheaper to just pay out, than it is to fight in court. No matter how right or within the law the action was. I learned that frustrating lesson after getting hit broadside 3/4 of the way through an intersection rolling code 3.
  #50  
Old 11-10-2013, 11:34 PM
stilly stilly is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Currently in a shanty I made in the river bottom by Eastvale.
Posts: 10,509
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
...
There is one rule in pursuits. If the suspect drives with no regard for his own life, you don't chase him. Use other methods of capture. When he ran that red light he clearly did not a give a for his own life.
...
I was waiting for the guys in the silver cold plated ford mustang with tinted windows to show up and shoot that truck with an EMP pulse blaster. Guess they did not get there in time...

You have read what you posted right? I am not a LEO, and don't take this the wrong way, but DAMN, that sounds like one screwed-up city to have a policy like that. OR, now that I think of it, you must be in a high tech city where there are cameras on every corner and there is no need to give a chase because you can follow them on the cameras and just make the arrest at the gas station. But if there are not cameras all over the place, then it seems that having a policy like that would only allow for the criminals that followed the law to get pulled over, while the real criminals (the ones that don't care about the law) ignore it and get away knowing that they can and will live to be a criminal another day. That just sounds crazy to me. If someone is driving reckless, THEY are the ones that decided to drive crazy (unless those guys in the mustang are chasing) and ANYTHING that happens should be put on them, not the police for stepping in and making a decision to end it or give chase. That is what we (non leo) expect the police to do. For the police to NOT do that is a huge let down and I imagine only builds resentment. I know that there was a saying among RSD in that "They will still be a criminal tomorrow..." but that was not about just giving up because someone is crazy, it was about not having tombstone courage and not putting yourself into a scenario with overwhelming odds or immediate danger. Is it possible that you misunderstood that policy or maybe you DO work in a high tech city...


Quote:
Originally Posted by oddjob View Post
Good shoot....

Did he ever get his cigarettes?
Does a smoking barrel count?

Last edited by stilly; 11-10-2013 at 11:41 PM..
  #51  
Old 11-11-2013, 10:48 AM
yzernie's Avatar
yzernie yzernie is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Oak Hills/Hesperia, Ca.
Posts: 5,473
iTrader: 565 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
What you might consider "Real Cop Work" is probably different from your day to current day.

The running & gunning days are over. If you don't watch your actions you will easily find yourself unemployed or in court facing a legal actions. Most cops talk a big game about how they're a cowboy but when the rubber hits the road they think about their family, mortgage, car payment, boat payment, school tuition, heath benefits, & retirement before they act.
You apparently work for some spineless boss (or are one) who has imparted his flawed logic onward to the troops pounding the pavement. Again, glad I didn't work for you or your department.
__________________
My Commercial Sales Ad >>> http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=257865

TinStarSupply@aol.com

The satisfaction of a job well done is to be the one who has done it

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazoE
I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.
  #52  
Old 11-11-2013, 11:31 AM
Wavechaser Wavechaser is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 52
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Good shoot, no question on that one.
  #53  
Old 11-11-2013, 11:40 AM
spetsnaz's Avatar
spetsnaz spetsnaz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,510
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

The car is a weapon. His fault
__________________
  #54  
Old 11-11-2013, 1:03 PM
wattspd wattspd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 68
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yzernie View Post
You apparently work for some spineless boss (or are one) who has imparted his flawed logic onward to the troops pounding the pavement. Again, glad I didn't work for you or your department.
When a dinosaur retires it's another step toward progress. Most if not all policies that exist today are because some old school'er cant get with the times and steps on it badly because he reverts to his "this is how we used to do it logic, and it worked back in the day" rational. Enjoy retirement
  #55  
Old 11-11-2013, 1:13 PM
WyattandDoc WyattandDoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 769
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
When a dinosaur retires it's another step toward progress. Most if not all policies that exist today are because some old school'er cant get with the times and steps on it badly because he reverts to his "this is how we used to do it logic, and it worked back in the day" rational. Enjoy retirement
You're way out of line Brother.
__________________
Knives don't stab people, cars don't drive drunk, eating utensils don't make you fat and pencils don't mis-spell words.
  #56  
Old 11-11-2013, 1:21 PM
oddjob oddjob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lodi, California
Posts: 2,081
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Many years ago I took a call very similar to this. A father called in a stolen car that his son took without his permission.

I told him I couldn't take a theft report. When he asked why I mentioned its a father/son disagreement and not a law enforcement problem. I then asked him how he would feel if law enforcement shot his son (worst case scenario). He was somewhat stunned by what I said, but he understood after I explained to him we (LEO) don't work like television or movies.

He wanted us to discipline his own kid because he was incapable.
  #57  
Old 11-11-2013, 2:30 PM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 12,112
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
When a dinosaur retires it's another step toward progress. Most if not all policies that exist today are because some old school'er cant get with the times and steps on it badly because he reverts to his "this is how we used to do it logic, and it worked back in the day" rational. Enjoy retirement
Looks like we have a new poser.
__________________


You can't buy happiness but you can buy guns and that's pretty much the same thing.

NRA Benefactor Member

Police brutality? Visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114 to learn more about "isolated incidents"
  #58  
Old 11-11-2013, 6:31 PM
yzernie's Avatar
yzernie yzernie is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Oak Hills/Hesperia, Ca.
Posts: 5,473
iTrader: 565 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
When a dinosaur retires it's another step toward progress. Most if not all policies that exist today are because some old school'er cant get with the times and steps on it badly because he reverts to his "this is how we used to do it logic, and it worked back in the day" rational. Enjoy retirement
I can tell you that every time I looked at myself in the mirror I know I did the best job possible, every minute, of every hour, of every shift, of every day off in court, of every minute my men and women needed me whether on or off-duty, I was there for them. Can you say that?

Opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one but some stink worse than others. Hope you enjoy your boot licking, butt kissing career...I'm sure you'll stomp the worker bees into the ground so you can ride your rocket to stardom.

/click
__________________
My Commercial Sales Ad >>> http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=257865

TinStarSupply@aol.com

The satisfaction of a job well done is to be the one who has done it

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazoE
I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.
  #59  
Old 11-11-2013, 7:01 PM
stilly stilly is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Currently in a shanty I made in the river bottom by Eastvale.
Posts: 10,509
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddjob View Post
Many years ago I took a call very similar to this. A father called in a stolen car that his son took without his permission.

I told him I couldn't take a theft report. When he asked why I mentioned its a father/son disagreement and not a law enforcement problem. I then asked him how he would feel if law enforcement shot his son (worst case scenario). He was somewhat stunned by what I said, but he understood after I explained to him we (LEO) don't work like television or movies.

He wanted us to discipline his own kid because he was incapable.
I am going to guess that they moved and forgot what you told them...
  #60  
Old 11-12-2013, 12:00 AM
CBR_rider CBR_rider is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,121
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wattspd View Post
When a dinosaur retires it's another step toward progress. Most if not all policies that exist today are because some old school'er cant get with the times and steps on it badly because he reverts to his "this is how we used to do it logic, and it worked back in the day" rational. Enjoy retirement
This weeks nominee for the prestigious Blue Falcon award, Wattspd:

  #61  
Old 11-12-2013, 8:18 AM
yzernie's Avatar
yzernie yzernie is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Oak Hills/Hesperia, Ca.
Posts: 5,473
iTrader: 565 / 100%
Default

Blue Falcon Award.....where's the like button!!!
__________________
My Commercial Sales Ad >>> http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=257865

TinStarSupply@aol.com

The satisfaction of a job well done is to be the one who has done it

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazoE
I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.
  #62  
Old 11-12-2013, 8:58 AM
omgwtfbbq's Avatar
omgwtfbbq omgwtfbbq is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North Sac Valley
Posts: 3,181
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

If the call to the police was truly to "teach him a lesson" rather than report a legitimate crime, then the father is using the system incorrectly. LE respond to crimes, not oddball parenting tactics.

For some reason, people have decided that LE is a second or third parent to their children and any time they can't handle or don't want to parent them, they call LE for backup.

I've been party to many lesser instances like this one. The parents call LE thinking their child is going to get a stern talking-to. You know, be told to respect their elders and eat their vegetables and then move on, but when LE rolls in and charges the kid with a crime, the parents go nuts. Guess what, if you would actually parent your children rather than relying on LE to do it for you, then it wouldn't have happened.

Of course this is a moot point really, the kid used his vehicle as a weapon, plain and simple. It's a good shoot.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:13 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.