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  #1  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:11 PM
3rd_gear 3rd_gear is offline
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Default Pistol Brace on Featureless Rifle

I want to use the SBA3 adjustable pistol brace on a featureless rifle.

There's nothing that indicates it would not be legal. At least nothing I could find.

Would the SBA3 adjustable pistol brace be GTG on a featureless rifle?
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:53 PM
el tardo el tardo is offline
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I wanna know the legality about this as well. In my book would be good to go but I’m not a gun lawyer, I see it as a normal stock me personally I take off the Velcro part to looks more like a minimalistic stock

But I would like to know the legal answer
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  #3  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd_gear View Post
I want to use the SBA3 adjustable pistol brace on a featureless rifle.

There's nothing that indicates it would not be legal. At least nothing I could find.

Would the SBA3 adjustable pistol brace be GTG on a featureless rifle?
To my understanding you can NOT have a adjustable stock on a featureless rifle period.
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Old 10-12-2019, 2:12 AM
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I wouldn’t think so because an AR pistol cannot be featureless. But then again what do I know, I’m a civilian.
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Old 10-12-2019, 4:24 AM
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This one, cant have an adjustable stock on featureless. I'm sure you cant have an adjustable brace on a featureless rifle. Braces are intended for pistols.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panchira! View Post
To my understanding you can NOT have a adjustable stock on a featureless rifle period.
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  #6  
Old 10-12-2019, 6:59 AM
3rd_gear 3rd_gear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panchira! View Post
To my understanding you can NOT have a adjustable stock on a featureless rifle period.
But, the SBA3 is not a stock. It's an adjustable brace.
If the SBA3 is considered a stock, it would not be legal for pistols...which it is.
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  #7  
Old 10-12-2019, 7:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd_gear View Post
I want to use the SBA3 adjustable pistol brace on a featureless rifle.

There's nothing that indicates it would not be legal. At least nothing I could find.

Would the SBA3 adjustable pistol brace be GTG on a featureless rifle?
So, you’re converting your rifle to a pistol? I don’t think that would be halal in CA.


.
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  #8  
Old 10-12-2019, 7:09 AM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
So, you’re converting your rifle to a pistol? I don’t think that would be halal in CA.


.
A stock on a pistol would convert a pistol to rifle.

Having no stock on a rifle , would still make it a rifle.
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  #9  
Old 10-12-2019, 7:41 AM
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Here is the fun part- what is legal in theory
VS
Getting a rifle seized and a property # issued
An arrest
A court date
$50,000-$75,000 to see if it is or is not a legal configuration

If not- losing all rights

If it is, then paying to get your rifle back from the PD



There are lots of people who can be a test case....
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Old 10-12-2019, 7:53 AM
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3rd gear not quite as bright as a church mouse I guess. A rifle stock on a pistol makes it an SBR. Couple nummie posts on here. How about OAL if you put brace on a rifle.
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  #11  
Old 10-12-2019, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
3rd gear not quite as bright as a church mouse I guess. A rifle stock on a pistol makes it an SBR. Couple nummie posts on here. How about OAL if you put brace on a rifle.
The SBA3 brace uses the standard carbine receiver extension, the OAL with a 16 inch barrel would be well over 30.
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  #12  
Old 10-12-2019, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Here is the fun part- what is legal in theory
VS
Getting a rifle seized and a property # issued
An arrest
A court date
....
Good point, right or wrong, most LEO wouldn't know.
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2019, 8:25 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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You did not answer about rifle stock on pistol making it an sbr.
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2019, 8:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
You did not answer about rifle stock on pistol making it an sbr.
What did I not answer, see post number 8.
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2019, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Here is the fun part- what is legal in theory
VS
Getting a rifle seized and a property # issued
An arrest
A court date
$50,000-$75,000 to see if it is or is not a legal configuration

If not- losing all rights

If it is, then paying to get your rifle back from the PD



There are lots of people who can be a test case....
This. Plus, (I'm no lawyer but) if you read some of the old ATF determination letters posted here on Calguns, there seems to be language in there about "intent" behind usage. I know they reverse their ridiculous and silly standing that when a pistol brace touches your shoulder it magically immediately gets converted into an SBR, (i.e. if you were cheek weldin' then it gets pushed into your shoulder and oh dear you're a felon) but I still think intent would remain an issue. I mean, I'm not sure how you're going to argue that you intended to use a pistol brace as a "pistol brace".....on a rifle.

If you really need it in your life though, send it to the ATF for a determination letter....
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Last edited by LateBraking; 10-12-2019 at 8:35 AM..
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  #16  
Old 10-12-2019, 8:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LateBraking View Post
This. Plus, (im no lawyer but) if you read some of the old ATF determination letters posted here on Calguns, there seems to be language in there about "intent" behind usage. I know they reverse their silly standing that when a pistol brace touches ur shoulder it magically gets converted into an SBR, but I think intent would be a real issue. I mean, I'm not sure how you're going to argue that you intended to use a pistol brace as a "pistol brace".....on a rifle.
Yep, this is the gray zone I wasn't sure about.
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  #17  
Old 10-12-2019, 11:10 AM
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Overall length applies. If you’re longer than 30” while the brace is fixed and not adjustable any longer, then sure.


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  #18  
Old 10-14-2019, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd_gear View Post
I want to use the SBA3 adjustable pistol brace on a featureless rifle.

There's nothing that indicates it would not be legal. At least nothing I could find.

Would the SBA3 adjustable pistol brace be GTG on a featureless rifle?
Per BATFE...
If an arm stablizing brace is modified so that it is easier or more comfortable to shoulder, then it is considered a shoulder stock.

If an arm stablizing brace has a length of pull that is greater than 13.5", then it is considered a shoulder stock.


Under CA laws, if the firearm has a rifled barrel and redesigned/intended to be fired from the shoulder, then it's a "rifle". [PC 17090]

Therefore...
A semi-auto centerfire rifle with an arm stablizing brace installed needs to be configured so that it complies with CA assault weapons laws.

If the arm stablizing brace folds/telescopes; then the semi-auto rifle needs to operate using a fixed magazine or the arm stablizing brace needs to be fixed so that it can not fold/telescope.

If the semi-auto rifle with the arm stablizing brace has an overall length of less than 30"; then it needs to have it overall length extended, by permanently attaching a muzzle device or fixing the arm stablizing brace so that it can not fold/telescope, so that the overall length is 30" or greater.
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  #19  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:44 AM
3rd_gear 3rd_gear is offline
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^^Good logic, that's what I was looking for. Thanks.
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panchira! View Post
To my understanding you can NOT have a adjustable stock on a featureless rifle period.
Only folding or telescoping are illegal.
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  #21  
Old 10-15-2019, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealnickb View Post
Only folding or telescoping are illegal.
You would think that, but remember DOJ was rejecting AW registrations for guns with Magpul PRS stocks, saying they were considered adjustable.
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2019, 1:45 PM
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Legal maybe, please don't. We have enough people with AR pistols with these braces, the last thing the community needs is a case where ATF or DOJ can claim yes it's a stock, see here is one on a Rifle
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  #23  
Old 10-16-2019, 9:09 AM
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We can always use another test case.
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  #24  
Old 10-16-2019, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten View Post
You would think that, but remember DOJ was rejecting AW registrations for guns with Magpul PRS stocks, saying they were considered adjustable.
Well, I was surprised when I saw that. But it does telescope according to their definition. It’s just really slow and requires a machine to do so.

“Adjustable” still doesn’t appear in the law.
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  #25  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:54 AM
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A rifle without a stock but meeting length requirements is an AOW last I checked.
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  #26  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvin232 View Post
A rifle without a stock but meeting length requirements is an AOW last I checked.
A firearm without a stock is not a rifle, but whether you can make a rifle into a title 1 other? Don't know.

If it is over 26" OAL it is just a Title 1 Other, not a pistol or AOW, regardless of barrel length. (federally)
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