Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Shotgun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-18-2019, 9:36 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,958
iTrader: 301 / 100%
Default Dp-12...legal or not legal??

I'd like a dp12. I see they sell a Ca compliant version and it states it's 14 round capacity. I thought the magazine tubes had to be plugged to 5 rounds each.

Anyone know the real story on these shotguns?
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:08 PM
meno377's Avatar
meno377 meno377 is offline
小さな女性
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: California
Posts: 4,911
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
I'd like a dp12. I see they sell a Ca compliant version and it states it's 14 round capacity. I thought the magazine tubes had to be plugged to 5 rounds each.

Anyone know the real story on these shotguns?
Are you sure that isn't specifically for hunting? BTW it's no more than 3 rounds.

EDIT: Disregard!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.
-Milton Friedman


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/signaturepics/sigpic164573_1.gif

Last edited by meno377; 09-18-2019 at 10:17 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:09 PM
SkyHawk's Avatar
SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
Front Toward Enemy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Outside my Southern Comfort Zone
Posts: 23,178
iTrader: 223 / 100%
Default

DOJ has a memo - DP12 mag tubes must be blocked, epoxied, and riveted to 5rds each of whatever shell length is stamped on the barrel or chamber, or no more than 10rd combined.
You can see the document here

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...8&d=1481910200

Quote:
(5)The internal magazines of a firearm are part of a design function in which the combined ammunition capacity exceeds 10 rounds, and can be fired by the shooter without manipulating the magazine selector switch. An example of this type of firearm is the Standard Manufacturing DP-12 pump shotgun. If the tubular magazines are permanently altered to reduce their capacity to 10 rounds or less as described in this section, then this firearm would not be deemed a large-capacity magazine.

Magazine capacity for shotguns shall be based upon shotgun shells that are 2 3/4”, which shall be the default standard if the firearm is not marked to indicate another shotgun shell standard. If a particular firearm is marked to indicate another shotgun shell standard, then the magazine capacity for that firearm shall be based upon those markings. Shotgun shells shorter than the default standard may only be used to determine magazine capacity if a firearm is specifically marked to accept this shell exclusively.
Quote:
A tubular magazine that has more than a 10 round capacity shall have its capacity permanently reduced by insertion of a magazine block and use of permanent epoxy to hold the block in place. Then, a rivet shall secure the block in place by penetrating the tubular magazine and the magazine block.
If they are advertising a 14rd ‘CA version’, there are a couple of possibilities:

1) they have put in a manual tube selector instead of auto feeding from both tubes
2) they are basing 14rds on a shorter shell than the chamber designation

Call them, find out and get back to us.
__________________
.


Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-18-2019 at 10:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:11 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,958
iTrader: 301 / 100%
Default

I never got a memo. I must not be in the email list
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:30 PM
SkyHawk's Avatar
SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
Front Toward Enemy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Outside my Southern Comfort Zone
Posts: 23,178
iTrader: 223 / 100%
Default

My guess is they have an error in the description on their page, and they are installing the CA compliant plungers which are just follower extensions (aka mag blocks) that they sell which limit the capacity to 5rd per tube.

I question the legality of those, they are essentially magazines that are not permanently blocked.

IMO the KSG makes way more sense and is a lot lighter.

https://stdgun.com/dp-12-california-compliant-plugs/

https://youtu.be/qJ7q_ukK4Qw

__________________
.


Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-18-2019 at 10:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-19-2019, 12:25 AM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: not in CA
Posts: 17,340
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Maybe it says 3 1/2 inch chamber, 5 shells take up the same space as 7 2 3/4 inch shells.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-19-2019, 5:28 AM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,958
iTrader: 301 / 100%
Default

No -- it says 4 shells at 4.8"

Kinda want the weight. It's for HD. Not quails. I shot the ksg. It ran perfectly through 100 rounds but the lightness really adds up to a beating. I have a registered assault weapon Vepr 12. Changing mags is a nightmare.
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-19-2019, 10:29 AM
SkyHawk's Avatar
SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
Front Toward Enemy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Outside my Southern Comfort Zone
Posts: 23,178
iTrader: 223 / 100%
Default

The DP12 is cool because you get two shots before a pump (if everything goes well). The downside is you have two shell lifters and two shells loading, which is 2x the chance of a jam.

The KSG will beat you up but if you really need to use it, you wont notice The extra rounds may be worth it. I put an extended selector paddle on mine and I can change tubes with a bump of my wrist, never breaking my firing grip.

http://www.hitechcc.com/product/HTC-106.html

__________________
.


Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-19-2019 at 10:33 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-19-2019, 8:56 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,958
iTrader: 301 / 100%
Default

Has anyone shot both? The YouTube videos seem to favor the DP.

I just want something reliable. My vepr is reliable, but it's a raw and it's bullet button is really a pain. Same as an Ak.
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-20-2019, 8:16 PM
SandHill's Avatar
SandHill SandHill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,089
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

(5)The internal magazines of a firearm are part of a design function in which the combined ammunition capacity exceeds 10 rounds, and can be fired by the shooter without manipulating the magazine selector switch.

So KSG is CA legal with greater than 10 round capacity because it has selector switch to switch between mags? That seems uncommonly recondite, even by the standards of the CA DOJ.
__________________
Pooty Poot, you sure screwed the pooch this time! - Ghost of Roza Shanina, WWII Soviet Sniper
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-20-2019, 9:14 PM
SkyHawk's Avatar
SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
Front Toward Enemy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Outside my Southern Comfort Zone
Posts: 23,178
iTrader: 223 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SandHill View Post

So KSG is CA legal with greater than 10 round capacity because it has selector switch to switch between mags?
That is exactly correct. It is little difference than two 10rd AR mags that are connected at the basplate. As long as some manual action is required to get the next mag into action, it is a legal mag arrangement or in this case, mag tube arrangement.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-20-2019, 9:39 PM
SandHill's Avatar
SandHill SandHill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,089
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
That is exactly correct. It is little difference than two 10rd AR mags that are connected at the basplate. As long as some manual action is required to get the next mag into action, it is a legal mag arrangement or in this case, mag tube arrangement.
Hmmm. Seems to me a lot less effort than pulling out the AR mags, turning them upside down and reinserting. There ought to be a business here. Design a "double stack" handgun that holds two single stack mags side by side, with a selector switch. Voila, 20 rounds, even without Freedom Week mags. Then just get your Frankenpistole on the roster, then, wait.....never mind!
__________________
Pooty Poot, you sure screwed the pooch this time! - Ghost of Roza Shanina, WWII Soviet Sniper
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-21-2019, 12:22 PM
stix213's Avatar
stix213 stix213 is offline
AKA: Joe Censored
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Manteca
Posts: 18,957
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
DOJ has a memo - DP12 mag tubes must be blocked, epoxied, and riveted to 5rds each of whatever shell length is stamped on the barrel or chamber, or no more than 10rd combined.
You can see the document here

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...8&d=1481910200





If they are advertising a 14rd ‘CA version’, there are a couple of possibilities:

1) they have put in a manual tube selector instead of auto feeding from both tubes
2) they are basing 14rds on a shorter shell than the chamber designation

Call them, find out and get back to us.
Interesting the DOJ provides specific examples, such as the KSG, which are in compliance with the law. The DOJ has a history of otherwise promoting ambiguity rather than clarity.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:05 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy