Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CONCEALED CARRY/LICENSE TO CARRY > Concealed Carry Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-14-2017, 9:21 PM
Blue Line Blue Line is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 116
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default Aftermarket stuff a nogo?

A guy at Ammo Bros said that the police departments wont approve people with guns that have aftermarket internals/engravings. He said the prosecutor will charge you with intent. He said sights are okay but anything internal/G2 RIPs will get you extra charges in the event of a CCW shooting. Can anyone confirm?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-14-2017, 9:26 PM
iclypso iclypso is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 41
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Intent to?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-14-2017, 9:27 PM
Abu Riyah's Avatar
Abu Riyah Abu Riyah is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 523
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Listen to your IA about what they will or will not approve, not random-behind-the-LGS-counter-FUD-spewer-guy.
__________________
“So much of what we call management consists of making it difficult for people to work.” – Peter Drucker

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-14-2017, 9:43 PM
jdben92883 jdben92883 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Corona
Posts: 3,636
iTrader: 200 / 100%
Default

The guy at Ammo Bros. really should keep his opinions to himself and not take advantage that some misguided people will take his drivel as fact and actually act on it.

Only your IA can tell you whether-or-not they allow aftermarket parts in your firearms.

As for as the "prosecutor charging you..." B.S., do you know how many freakin' times I've heard that crap?? Just point me to ONE instance where a guy got nailed for sticking a Ghost connector in the Glock he used in a CCW altercation. It's ridiculous the nonsense that's floated out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Line View Post
A guy at Ammo Bros said that the police departments wont approve people with guns that have aftermarket internals/engravings. He said the prosecutor will charge you with intent. He said sights are okay but anything internal/G2 RIPs will get you extra charges in the event of a CCW shooting. Can anyone confirm?
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-14-2017, 9:51 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,581
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Intent to commit mopery ka dopery?
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011

NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
NRA Rifle Instructor
NRA Shotgun Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
DOJ Certified Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-15-2017, 12:05 AM
L84CABO's Avatar
L84CABO L84CABO is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Orcas Island, WA and San Diego
Posts: 7,541
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Listen to your IA

After that, your first priority is staying alive to make it to court...if that actually happens.
__________________
"Kestryll I wanna lick your doughnut."

Fighter Pilot
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-15-2017, 12:26 AM
LowThudd's Avatar
LowThudd LowThudd is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sherman Oaks
Posts: 3,608
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdben92883 View Post
The guy at Ammo Bros. really should keep his opinions to himself and not take advantage that some misguided people will take his drivel as fact and actually act on it.

Only your IA can tell you whether-or-not they allow aftermarket parts in your firearms.

As for as the "prosecutor charging you..." B.S., do you know how many freakin' times I've heard that crap?? Just point me to ONE instance where a guy got nailed for sticking a Ghost connector in the Glock he used in a CCW altercation. It's ridiculous the nonsense that's floated out there.
Massad Ayoob has always stated that it wasn't the DA you would have a problem with, but a lawyer in a Civil suit. He has always recommended avoiding modified guns for self defense for that reason. In theory, he is right, especially here in CA. Just not sure how much it would matter in a justifiable shooting.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-15-2017, 5:20 AM
placerproud placerproud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 362
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Not sure where he is getting his info, like everyone said before it is up to your IA on whether or not you can have modifications, or the type of modifications. Some may allow just about anything while others may only allow bone stock. Even if you decide to modify your gun make sure that you can articulate why you have it, not just that you wanted it. If you do get the go ahead from your IA to make a change make sure you get it in writing and not just a "I hear from a friend who is a cop."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-15-2017, 6:54 AM
ACfixer's Avatar
ACfixer ACfixer is offline
Global Warming Enthusiast
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N/E Tennessee
Posts: 5,834
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Line View Post
A guy at Ammo Bros said that the police departments wont approve people with guns that have aftermarket internals/engravings. He said the prosecutor will charge you with intent. He said sights are okay but anything internal/G2 RIPs will get you extra charges in the event of a CCW shooting. Can anyone confirm?
So you'd be okay putting good sights on your gun to make sure you drill the perp in the breadbasket, but if you engrave a spider on your slide you're in big trouble? Does that make any sense whatsoever to you?

This stuff reminds me of the poodle in the microwave stories.
__________________
Buy made in USA whenever possible.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-15-2017, 7:00 AM
JCHavasu's Avatar
JCHavasu JCHavasu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: That's classified...
Posts: 670
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I would definitely avoid all the Punisher logos, and "I'm a badass" engraving stuff. Those are the types of things that a sharp lawyer will use against you in a civil suit, if not a criminal action. In fact, expect the things you posted on this forum to be found and possibly used against you in a civil suit as well.
__________________
"You fickers are all cray cray in my opinion. Non of you have an iQ over 80." - SandyCrotchSurfer aka SandyEggoSurf

"News stories and the truth are a bit like fraternal twins. They are related but only vaguely resemble each other."

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich quick theory of life." - Theodore Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:42 AM
drifts1 drifts1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,443
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Oh noooo!
My justifiable self defense shoot could turn into a murder charge cause I colorfilled my slide??!!? 😱😱
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:48 AM
Blade Gunner's Avatar
Blade Gunner Blade Gunner is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,425
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCHavasu View Post
I would definitely avoid all the Punisher logos, and "I'm a badass" engraving stuff. Those are the types of things that a sharp lawyer will use against you in a civil suit, if not a criminal action. In fact, expect the things you posted on this forum to be found and possibly used against you in a civil suit as well.


Get the Hello Kitty AR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you're doing it all wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:59 AM
back4more70's Avatar
back4more70 back4more70 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 311
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drifts1 View Post
Oh noooo!
My justifiable self defense shoot could turn into a murder charge cause I colorfilled my slide??!!? 😱😱
Did you fill it to look like flames or explosions?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:07 AM
hermosabeach's Avatar
hermosabeach hermosabeach is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Bay of Los Angeles
Posts: 18,379
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Look for case law and other shootings....

When you are sued in civil court as you ruined the occupation of a father of 5, you get sued.


If you use silly stuff, they might talk at length about the silly stuff...
Fake ammo like G2
Trigger jobs

Barrel engraved with- smile, wait for flash
Slide engraved- let god sort them out

And all internet posts and history


So carry good and proven ammo in a proven caliber - no 22 no 5.7
Carry a gun that will be destroyed and not returned and one you can easily replace....

Chat with the issuing agency for what is allowed...
__________________
Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
(thanks to Jeff Cooper)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:18 AM
Blade Gunner's Avatar
Blade Gunner Blade Gunner is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,425
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Do you use your most expensive gun for HD or your least expensive? Plan on having it held as evidence (or worse) for an extended period of time. So while I have expensive steel alloy Sigs, I keep a steel/polymer Sig 2022 bedside. All the controls and feel are the same at half the price


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you're doing it all wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:31 AM
rock3ralex's Avatar
rock3ralex rock3ralex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Земля мормонов
Posts: 1,299
iTrader: 178 / 99%
Default

One idiot that worked at ammo bros was trying to tell me that you could just buy a stripped AR15 receiver and build it into a pistol in CA. Maybe in some other state but not here. I wouldn't take any advice from anyone on this unless it's your IW or a Lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:44 AM
TransplantTexan TransplantTexan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 889
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

So who is going to dissect a firearm to see what internals are there and will they even spot the difference.

Same question for Civil Trials. If it was a legitimate shoot then in all likely hood the police would not have disassembled the firearm before returning it back to the owner. If the firearm in question is still in police hands than I doubt that a civil attorney would be able to examine it, Chain of custody and all that other crap.

If the firearm has been returned than I'm guessing it would be even harder for a civil attorney to look at the internals. I would think an attorney would be hard pressed to convince a judge that he had the right to inspect the firearm.

As far as 'Intent' is concerned, by changing out any part my intent is for the gun to function the best that it can and does not show intent to kill someone.

Still haven't seen anyone cite a case where using replacement parts or hollow-point ammo was used to show intent to kill.
__________________
Ignorance is a matter of choice and is usually cured by age, experience and education, but stupid is genetic in nature, and incurable.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:55 AM
38Special's Avatar
38Special 38Special is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 1,539
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

San Bernardino County will not allow modified trigger jobs.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-15-2017, 12:56 PM
back4more70's Avatar
back4more70 back4more70 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 311
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
If you use silly stuff, they might talk at length about the silly stuff...
Fake ammo like G2
Bravo. I chuckled at this.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-15-2017, 1:15 PM
ACfixer's Avatar
ACfixer ACfixer is offline
Global Warming Enthusiast
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N/E Tennessee
Posts: 5,834
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 38Special View Post
San Bernardino County will not allow modified trigger jobs.
That's funny, because the instructor (SB Sheriff captain) at my qualification looked at my G43 and told me to go buy a lighter connector and install it. Not some guy on the internet or at ammo bros, the man running the whole ccw show including firearms inspections at AVGC on 2/11/2017. He also told me ahead of the class that my 3.5 connector in my G19 was ok, but he preferred at least a 4.5 lb pull and so that's what I did before range day. The only thing he said he would not approve is an unsafe firearm of any sort.
__________________
Buy made in USA whenever possible.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-15-2017, 4:31 PM
38Special's Avatar
38Special 38Special is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 1,539
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
That's funny, because the instructor (SB Sheriff captain) at my qualification looked at my G43 and told me to go buy a lighter connector and install it. Not some guy on the internet or at ammo bros, the man running the whole ccw show including firearms inspections at AVGC on 2/11/2017. He also told me ahead of the class that my 3.5 connector in my G19 was ok, but he preferred at least a 4.5 lb pull and so that's what I did before range day. The only thing he said he would not approve is an unsafe firearm of any sort.
NO trigger jobs has been covered at every renewal 'class' I have been to for years.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-15-2017, 5:04 PM
Win231 Win231 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,099
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
So you'd be okay putting good sights on your gun to make sure you drill the perp in the breadbasket, but if you engrave a spider on your slide you're in big trouble? Does that make any sense whatsoever to you?

This stuff reminds me of the poodle in the microwave stories.
It doesn't have to make any sense to you. You are not an ignorant juror.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-15-2017, 5:07 PM
DrScorpio's Avatar
DrScorpio DrScorpio is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 133
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Both my carry glocks have the 3.5lb trigger bar and the "25 cent" trigger job. Both were approved with no problems with san bernardino.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-15-2017, 5:08 PM
38Special's Avatar
38Special 38Special is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 1,539
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrScorpio View Post
Both my carry glocks have the 3.5lb trigger bar and the "25 cent" trigger job. Both were approved with no problems with san bernardino.
Just answering what has been said OVER AND OVER at renewal classes.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-15-2017, 5:25 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 44,082
iTrader: 133 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Line View Post
A guy at Ammo Bros said that the police departments wont approve people with guns that have aftermarket internals/engravings. He said the prosecutor will charge you with intent. He said sights are okay but anything internal/G2 RIPs will get you extra charges in the event of a CCW shooting. Can anyone confirm?
Are you really going to take legal advice from a minimum wage sales associate? If he had a law degree, he would not be working there. He really doesn't have a clue!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 38Special View Post
NO trigger jobs has been covered at every renewal 'class' I have been to for years.
Is it your IA's policy or just your instructor's opinion? There is no CA law against trigger jobs on carry guns. In fact, I don't know of any law ,in any state, against them. Can you cite cases where a trigger job made the difference between a good SD shoot and a crime? I can't think of one. I'm guessing that your instructor is just parroting other's opinions and doesn't have one example to cite.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
Utah CCW Instructor


Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

KM6WLV
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-15-2017, 5:53 PM
38Special's Avatar
38Special 38Special is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 1,539
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Are you really going to take legal advice from a minimum wage sales associate? If he had a law degree, he would not be working there. He really doesn't have a clue!!!!!


Is it your IA's policy or just your instructor's opinion? There is no CA law against trigger jobs on carry guns. In fact, I don't know of any law ,in any state, against them. Can you cite cases where a trigger job made the difference between a good SD shoot and a crime? I can't think of one. I'm guessing that your instructor is just parroting other's opinions and doesn't have one example to cite.
I don't care if they are just parroting other's opinions. The Deputies doing renewal classes have said for years they will not approve guns they know to have had trigger jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bldrinker View Post
Went to class in Devore today, super easy.

here are a few things that might help:

Bring a pen.

ear and eye protection. ( they accepted sunglasses but bring safety glasses just incase)

Pistol mods. My shield has the chamber indicator deleted, 4lb trigger and night sights. Nothing was said. However guy in front of me had a Glock of some kind and his gun was denied because of a light trigger. We both had the same guy inspect our guns.

Shooting portion is very easy. Practice safe handling and you are good to go. Do something stupid and they will ask you to leave.

There will be signs instructing you were to go, at the Stop sign go left all the way around to the top by the range. Walk down to the class. There was a guy directing us where to go.

Class portion is just going over laws and stupid crap you should never do.


I will try to help with any questions you might have.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-15-2017, 7:40 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 44,082
iTrader: 133 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 38Special View Post
I don't care if they are just parroting other's opinions. The Deputies doing renewal classes have said for years they will not approve guns they know to have had trigger jobs.
Then, it's not opinion, it's your IA's policy and you need to abide by it.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
Utah CCW Instructor


Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

KM6WLV
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-15-2017, 8:10 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 32,374
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 38Special View Post
San Bernardino County will not allow modified trigger jobs.
That's not what many of us were told.

There is no written policy on this.

Captain's statement was no "competition" level springs or trigger work, but "Service/Carry" level work, as well as night sights are recommended.

He also indicated that it is strongly recommended that work be performed by a qualified smith, not "bubba with a Dremel"

Finally, he stated "Please, do not disable any factory safeties"

This is from the guy who WROTE the CCW training materials for the county. If the deputies are departing from this, they are doing it of their own accord and not under specific direction of the department.


BLdrinker's post confirms this... a 4lb trigger on a Shield is VERY obvious. They knew he had done work to it. They handle these things all day.
They also know what a Glock trigger feels like, and when it's getting close to or under 3lbs, which is getting into "competition" level and will most likely be rejected or at the very least, advised to put in something stiffer.

ALL of these issues are not due to potential criminal liability, but to help us protect ourselves from civil action.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 05-15-2017 at 8:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-16-2017, 6:00 AM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 44,082
iTrader: 133 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
That's not what many of us were told.

There is no written policy on this.

Captain's statement was no "competition" level springs or trigger work, but "Service/Carry" level work, as well as night sights are recommended.

He also indicated that it is strongly recommended that work be performed by a qualified smith, not "bubba with a Dremel"

Finally, he stated "Please, do not disable any factory safeties"

This is from the guy who WROTE the CCW training materials for the county. If the deputies are departing from this, they are doing it of their own accord and not under specific direction of the department.


BLdrinker's post confirms this... a 4lb trigger on a Shield is VERY obvious. They knew he had done work to it. They handle these things all day.
They also know what a Glock trigger feels like, and when it's getting close to or under 3lbs, which is getting into "competition" level and will most likely be rejected or at the very least, advised to put in something stiffer.

ALL of these issues are not due to potential criminal liability, but to help us protect ourselves from civil action.
WOW, that's interesting coming from an official representative of an IA, let alone the one who actually wrote the book for the IA.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
Utah CCW Instructor


Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

KM6WLV
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-16-2017, 6:59 AM
ACfixer's Avatar
ACfixer ACfixer is offline
Global Warming Enthusiast
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N/E Tennessee
Posts: 5,834
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
WOW, that's interesting coming from an official representative of an IA, let alone the one who actually wrote the book for the IA.
I had the same guy, and he's the one that told me to put a lighter connector in my G43.
__________________
Buy made in USA whenever possible.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-16-2017, 9:04 AM
Win231 Win231 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,099
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I read that (in addition to not modifying a defensive gun) it's a good idea to use calibers/ammo types that police use. That takes "ammo" away from the DA. Sounds like good advice to me. Nothing wrong with hollow-point ammo; it's in use by most police depts.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-16-2017, 5:48 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 32,374
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Win231 View Post
I read that (in addition to not modifying a defensive gun) it's a good idea to use calibers/ammo types that police use. That takes "ammo" away from the DA. Sounds like good advice to me. Nothing wrong with hollow-point ammo; it's in use by most police depts.
It's not an issue with the DA.
Neither are modifications so long as the shooting was not the result of an ND.
IOTW, a good shoot is a good shoot, a bad shoot is a bad shoot.
Your Punisher striker cover, hand-loaded wadcutters, or 3lb trigger are not going to change that.

What they will change is how difficult it will be for your attorney to defend you in the civil trial that WILL be happening, even if you are not arrested or charged.

Massad Ayoob has taught the "no modifications" class for many years. As a LEO, he is absolutely correct, because there will be IA action as well as civil action in nearly every officer involved shooting.

But neither he, nor anyone else, has been able to produce a single case where these things made a difference in a criminal case.
Some point to a recent case in Arizona where an engraved AR dust cover made a difference in an officer-involved shooting, but the fact is that case was a bad shoot in more ways than one. The dust cover may have made a difference in the judge's sentencing, but it was going to be a conviction regardless.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-17-2017, 11:54 AM
JCHavasu's Avatar
JCHavasu JCHavasu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: That's classified...
Posts: 670
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Talking about modifications to guns, etc. This was posted somewhere before I believe but is a former Mesa PD officer charged with murder. His personal rifle that he used on-duty had the words, "You're ****ed" engraved on the dust cover. If you don't think that will play poorly in court then you haven't spent much time there.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-him-in-court/

Obviously lawyers can argue modifications regardless of how reasonable they are. Heck, I could easily see one arguing that you wanted to shoot someone because you added an extended magazine to hold 7 versus 6 rounds. It can get ridiculous but engravings like that above have no place in my opinion. No good can come of it.

Edit: I hadn't seen Cokebottle beat me to referencing that case. Anyway, there is a link to details if anyone is interested.
__________________
"You fickers are all cray cray in my opinion. Non of you have an iQ over 80." - SandyCrotchSurfer aka SandyEggoSurf

"News stories and the truth are a bit like fraternal twins. They are related but only vaguely resemble each other."

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich quick theory of life." - Theodore Roosevelt

Last edited by JCHavasu; 05-17-2017 at 11:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-17-2017, 1:56 PM
Swatter911 Swatter911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: N ID
Posts: 398
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
I had the same guy, and he's the one that told me to put a lighter connector in my G43.
That's because the "-" connector in the Glock 42/43 is now part of the Glock approved upgrade path for that firearm. That's how all the new one ship from the factory.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-17-2017, 2:10 PM
Swatter911 Swatter911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: N ID
Posts: 398
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
WOW, that's interesting coming from an official representative of an IA, let alone the one who actually wrote the book for the IA.
The IA bears no responsibility or liability for what you do to your gun. All the IA cares about principally is that you're not bringing an unsafe gun onto their range and jeopardizing the safety of staff or shooters. I would like to believe that the IAs would give some reasonable suggestions on things you might want to consider before making modifications with an eye towards the goal of helping keep their citizens out of trouble (that "look here - wait for flash" engraving is a good example of that). I think a lot of times you see carryover from an IAs policy on duty gun specifications and parameters to the CCW policy or suggestions.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-17-2017, 2:11 PM
Mayor McRifle's Avatar
Mayor McRifle Mayor McRifle is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 7,647
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Line View Post
He said the prosecutor will charge you with intent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iclypso View Post
Intent to?
Intent to stop an imminent threat of death or great bodily injury.
__________________
Anchors Aweigh


Last edited by Mayor McRifle; 05-17-2017 at 2:14 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-17-2017, 7:16 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 32,374
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swatter911 View Post
I think a lot of times you see carryover from an IAs policy on duty gun specifications and parameters to the CCW policy or suggestions.
That's a very good point and may indeed be what's happening with some of the instructors for SBSD. This isn't the first that I've heard others report information in complete conflict with what was shared by my instructor.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-18-2017, 7:46 PM
bob.dakeelstripe bob.dakeelstripe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 418
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TransplantTexan View Post
So who is going to dissect a firearm to see what internals are there and will they even spot the difference.

Same question for Civil Trials. If it was a legitimate shoot then in all likely hood the police would not have disassembled the firearm before returning it back to the owner. If the firearm in question is still in police hands than I doubt that a civil attorney would be able to examine it, Chain of custody and all that other crap.

If the firearm has been returned than I'm guessing it would be even harder for a civil attorney to look at the internals. I would think an attorney would be hard pressed to convince a judge that he had the right to inspect the firearm.

As far as 'Intent' is concerned, by changing out any part my intent is for the gun to function the best that it can and does not show intent to kill someone.

Still haven't seen anyone cite a case where using replacement parts or hollow-point ammo was used to show intent to kill.
A firearm specialist from the Demarcate parts and yea they will tear that gun apart.

The question is all ways ask ... is all that bling worth the Crap storm it "could bring on". For me no its not. Sac says u can't modify anything to do with the firing group. Sights are ok grips are good ...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-19-2017, 6:46 AM
ACfixer's Avatar
ACfixer ACfixer is offline
Global Warming Enthusiast
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N/E Tennessee
Posts: 5,834
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swatter911 View Post
That's because the "-" connector in the Glock 42/43 is now part of the Glock approved upgrade path for that firearm. That's how all the new one ship from the factory.
Well, I did it. It's not a "huge" difference but I agree the original was too stiff even for a SD weapon. Put some really nice sights on it too.
__________________
Buy made in USA whenever possible.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:12 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 32,374
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
Well, I did it. It's not a "huge" difference but I agree the original was too stiff even for a SD weapon. Put some really nice sights on it too.
I had the TFO put on the Shield, but really like the look of the TFX-Pro and am going to swap them out along with the internal Apex carry kit.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:41 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy