|
Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Aftermarket stuff a nogo?
A guy at Ammo Bros said that the police departments wont approve people with guns that have aftermarket internals/engravings. He said the prosecutor will charge you with intent. He said sights are okay but anything internal/G2 RIPs will get you extra charges in the event of a CCW shooting. Can anyone confirm?
|
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Listen to your IA about what they will or will not approve, not random-behind-the-LGS-counter-FUD-spewer-guy.
__________________
“So much of what we call management consists of making it difficult for people to work.” – Peter Drucker |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
The guy at Ammo Bros. really should keep his opinions to himself and not take advantage that some misguided people will take his drivel as fact and actually act on it.
Only your IA can tell you whether-or-not they allow aftermarket parts in your firearms. As for as the "prosecutor charging you..." B.S., do you know how many freakin' times I've heard that crap?? Just point me to ONE instance where a guy got nailed for sticking a Ghost connector in the Glock he used in a CCW altercation. It's ridiculous the nonsense that's floated out there. Quote:
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
Intent to commit mopery ka dopery?
__________________
LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Listen to your IA
After that, your first priority is staying alive to make it to court...if that actually happens.
__________________
"Kestryll I wanna lick your doughnut." Fighter Pilot |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Not sure where he is getting his info, like everyone said before it is up to your IA on whether or not you can have modifications, or the type of modifications. Some may allow just about anything while others may only allow bone stock. Even if you decide to modify your gun make sure that you can articulate why you have it, not just that you wanted it. If you do get the go ahead from your IA to make a change make sure you get it in writing and not just a "I hear from a friend who is a cop."
|
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
This stuff reminds me of the poodle in the microwave stories.
__________________
Buy made in USA whenever possible. |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
I would definitely avoid all the Punisher logos, and "I'm a badass" engraving stuff. Those are the types of things that a sharp lawyer will use against you in a civil suit, if not a criminal action. In fact, expect the things you posted on this forum to be found and possibly used against you in a civil suit as well.
__________________
"You fickers are all cray cray in my opinion. Non of you have an iQ over 80." - SandyCrotchSurfer aka SandyEggoSurf "News stories and the truth are a bit like fraternal twins. They are related but only vaguely resemble each other." "The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich quick theory of life." - Theodore Roosevelt |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Get the Hello Kitty AR. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you're doing it all wrong. |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Did you fill it to look like flames or explosions?
|
#14
|
||||
|
||||
Look for case law and other shootings....
When you are sued in civil court as you ruined the occupation of a father of 5, you get sued. If you use silly stuff, they might talk at length about the silly stuff... Fake ammo like G2 Trigger jobs Barrel engraved with- smile, wait for flash Slide engraved- let god sort them out And all internet posts and history So carry good and proven ammo in a proven caliber - no 22 no 5.7 Carry a gun that will be destroyed and not returned and one you can easily replace.... Chat with the issuing agency for what is allowed...
__________________
Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs) Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT (thanks to Jeff Cooper) |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Do you use your most expensive gun for HD or your least expensive? Plan on having it held as evidence (or worse) for an extended period of time. So while I have expensive steel alloy Sigs, I keep a steel/polymer Sig 2022 bedside. All the controls and feel are the same at half the price
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you're doing it all wrong. |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
One idiot that worked at ammo bros was trying to tell me that you could just buy a stripped AR15 receiver and build it into a pistol in CA. Maybe in some other state but not here. I wouldn't take any advice from anyone on this unless it's your IW or a Lawyer.
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
So who is going to dissect a firearm to see what internals are there and will they even spot the difference.
Same question for Civil Trials. If it was a legitimate shoot then in all likely hood the police would not have disassembled the firearm before returning it back to the owner. If the firearm in question is still in police hands than I doubt that a civil attorney would be able to examine it, Chain of custody and all that other crap. If the firearm has been returned than I'm guessing it would be even harder for a civil attorney to look at the internals. I would think an attorney would be hard pressed to convince a judge that he had the right to inspect the firearm. As far as 'Intent' is concerned, by changing out any part my intent is for the gun to function the best that it can and does not show intent to kill someone. Still haven't seen anyone cite a case where using replacement parts or hollow-point ammo was used to show intent to kill.
__________________
Ignorance is a matter of choice and is usually cured by age, experience and education, but stupid is genetic in nature, and incurable. |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
That's funny, because the instructor (SB Sheriff captain) at my qualification looked at my G43 and told me to go buy a lighter connector and install it. Not some guy on the internet or at ammo bros, the man running the whole ccw show including firearms inspections at AVGC on 2/11/2017. He also told me ahead of the class that my 3.5 connector in my G19 was ok, but he preferred at least a 4.5 lb pull and so that's what I did before range day. The only thing he said he would not approve is an unsafe firearm of any sort.
__________________
Buy made in USA whenever possible. |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#24
|
||||
|
||||
Just answering what has been said OVER AND OVER at renewal classes.
|
#25
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Is it your IA's policy or just your instructor's opinion? There is no CA law against trigger jobs on carry guns. In fact, I don't know of any law ,in any state, against them. Can you cite cases where a trigger job made the difference between a good SD shoot and a crime? I can't think of one. I'm guessing that your instructor is just parroting other's opinions and doesn't have one example to cite.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
|
#27
|
||||
|
||||
Then, it's not opinion, it's your IA's policy and you need to abide by it.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#28
|
||||
|
||||
That's not what many of us were told.
There is no written policy on this. Captain's statement was no "competition" level springs or trigger work, but "Service/Carry" level work, as well as night sights are recommended. He also indicated that it is strongly recommended that work be performed by a qualified smith, not "bubba with a Dremel" Finally, he stated "Please, do not disable any factory safeties" This is from the guy who WROTE the CCW training materials for the county. If the deputies are departing from this, they are doing it of their own accord and not under specific direction of the department. BLdrinker's post confirms this... a 4lb trigger on a Shield is VERY obvious. They knew he had done work to it. They handle these things all day. They also know what a Glock trigger feels like, and when it's getting close to or under 3lbs, which is getting into "competition" level and will most likely be rejected or at the very least, advised to put in something stiffer. ALL of these issues are not due to potential criminal liability, but to help us protect ourselves from civil action.
__________________
- Rich Last edited by Cokebottle; 05-15-2017 at 8:13 PM.. |
#29
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
I had the same guy, and he's the one that told me to put a lighter connector in my G43.
__________________
Buy made in USA whenever possible. |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
I read that (in addition to not modifying a defensive gun) it's a good idea to use calibers/ammo types that police use. That takes "ammo" away from the DA. Sounds like good advice to me. Nothing wrong with hollow-point ammo; it's in use by most police depts.
|
#32
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Neither are modifications so long as the shooting was not the result of an ND. IOTW, a good shoot is a good shoot, a bad shoot is a bad shoot. Your Punisher striker cover, hand-loaded wadcutters, or 3lb trigger are not going to change that. What they will change is how difficult it will be for your attorney to defend you in the civil trial that WILL be happening, even if you are not arrested or charged. Massad Ayoob has taught the "no modifications" class for many years. As a LEO, he is absolutely correct, because there will be IA action as well as civil action in nearly every officer involved shooting. But neither he, nor anyone else, has been able to produce a single case where these things made a difference in a criminal case. Some point to a recent case in Arizona where an engraved AR dust cover made a difference in an officer-involved shooting, but the fact is that case was a bad shoot in more ways than one. The dust cover may have made a difference in the judge's sentencing, but it was going to be a conviction regardless.
__________________
- Rich |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
Talking about modifications to guns, etc. This was posted somewhere before I believe but is a former Mesa PD officer charged with murder. His personal rifle that he used on-duty had the words, "You're ****ed" engraved on the dust cover. If you don't think that will play poorly in court then you haven't spent much time there.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-him-in-court/ Obviously lawyers can argue modifications regardless of how reasonable they are. Heck, I could easily see one arguing that you wanted to shoot someone because you added an extended magazine to hold 7 versus 6 rounds. It can get ridiculous but engravings like that above have no place in my opinion. No good can come of it. Edit: I hadn't seen Cokebottle beat me to referencing that case. Anyway, there is a link to details if anyone is interested.
__________________
"You fickers are all cray cray in my opinion. Non of you have an iQ over 80." - SandyCrotchSurfer aka SandyEggoSurf "News stories and the truth are a bit like fraternal twins. They are related but only vaguely resemble each other." "The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich quick theory of life." - Theodore Roosevelt Last edited by JCHavasu; 05-17-2017 at 11:57 AM.. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
That's because the "-" connector in the Glock 42/43 is now part of the Glock approved upgrade path for that firearm. That's how all the new one ship from the factory.
|
#35
|
|||
|
|||
The IA bears no responsibility or liability for what you do to your gun. All the IA cares about principally is that you're not bringing an unsafe gun onto their range and jeopardizing the safety of staff or shooters. I would like to believe that the IAs would give some reasonable suggestions on things you might want to consider before making modifications with an eye towards the goal of helping keep their citizens out of trouble (that "look here - wait for flash" engraving is a good example of that). I think a lot of times you see carryover from an IAs policy on duty gun specifications and parameters to the CCW policy or suggestions.
|
#36
|
||||
|
||||
Intent to stop an imminent threat of death or great bodily injury.
__________________
Anchors Aweigh Last edited by Mayor McRifle; 05-17-2017 at 2:14 PM.. |
#37
|
||||
|
||||
That's a very good point and may indeed be what's happening with some of the instructors for SBSD. This isn't the first that I've heard others report information in complete conflict with what was shared by my instructor.
__________________
- Rich |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
The question is all ways ask ... is all that bling worth the Crap storm it "could bring on". For me no its not. Sac says u can't modify anything to do with the firing group. Sights are ok grips are good ... Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
#39
|
||||
|
||||
Well, I did it. It's not a "huge" difference but I agree the original was too stiff even for a SD weapon. Put some really nice sights on it too.
__________________
Buy made in USA whenever possible. |
#40
|
||||
|
||||
I had the TFO put on the Shield, but really like the look of the TFX-Pro and am going to swap them out along with the internal Apex carry kit.
__________________
- Rich |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|