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  #81  
Old 02-18-2016, 7:11 AM
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I don't really fault the detectives doing the permit work at all, either. It's the, apparently arbitrary rules that they have to follow that I have a problem with and those come from the top. The decision to keep those they deny in the dark comes from the top, too.

I don't know if you've read about the Birdt case. A "gentleman" (and I do use the term very loosely, too) was denied and took them to Federal court, where it took a long time and a very pissed-off judge for the SBSD to finally cough up a reason for the denial, and then shortly thereafter they changed their minds and gave a different reason. Folks like you or I don't stand a chance against that kind of professional stonewalling and politicking.
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  #82  
Old 02-18-2016, 7:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Nopal View Post
I don't really fault the detectives doing the permit work at all, either. It's the, apparently arbitrary rules that they have to follow that I have a problem with and those come from the top. The decision to keep those they deny in the dark comes from the top, too.

I don't know if you've read about the Birdt case. A "gentleman" (and I do use the term very loosely, too) was denied and took them to Federal court, where it took a long time and a very pissed-off judge for the SBSD to finally cough up a reason for the denial, and then shortly thereafter they changed their minds and gave a different reason. Folks like you or I don't stand a chance against that kind of professional stonewalling and politicking.
Persecuted with your own tax dollars mind you. Disgusting.
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  #83  
Old 02-18-2016, 9:45 AM
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Just make sure your appeal doesn't go like this dude...

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  #84  
Old 02-18-2016, 11:12 AM
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How long does the appeal process take
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  #85  
Old 02-18-2016, 11:21 AM
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NO clue.
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  #86  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:29 PM
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I have a question, did you get the denied letter after or before getting your livescan done? Or was if right after the Interview?
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  #87  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:33 PM
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Interview and livescan were done on the same day. The letter was well after both.
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  #88  
Old 02-23-2016, 3:28 PM
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don't answer this question....

but.... if there are Domestic Violence accusations... that could be the issue....
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  #89  
Old 02-23-2016, 3:43 PM
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No question was asked but I will respond to the statement...
There were ZERO Domestic Violence accusations!
AND I just found out that my employer was never contacted!
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  #90  
Old 02-23-2016, 3:44 PM
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AND I just found out that my employer was never contacted!
Found out how?

How do you know your employer is telling the truth?
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  #91  
Old 02-23-2016, 3:49 PM
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Good question...
I asked them if they had been contacted.
I do not think they would lie about any law enforcement contact.
I'm quite positive they would have mentioned something to me about it.
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  #92  
Old 02-23-2016, 5:46 PM
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If it means anything, my employer received the ccw notice letter 2 days after my interview. They must have mailed it out right after the interview.
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  #93  
Old 02-26-2016, 10:38 PM
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I had my interview with a very stern detective lady. She got mad at for not filling out a part of the app. I was nervous and intimidated by her but finished every reply with a "Yes Ma'am" Like I said my interview was on the 25th so we'll see how everything pans out.
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  #94  
Old 02-26-2016, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeAE View Post
I had my interview with a very stern detective lady. She got mad at for not filling out a part of the app. I was nervous and intimidated by her but finished every reply with a "Yes Ma'am" Like I said my interview was on the 25th so we'll see how everything pans out.
She is strictly business, but she knows her job and does it well.

Keep in mind that she's talking to people all freaking week and she doesn't know the good guys from the dirtbags when they first come to the counter.
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  #95  
Old 02-27-2016, 10:14 AM
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I know exactly who you are referring to, MikeAE. I have seen this investigator in action and it is definitely all business all the time!
I have witnessed a few interactions with this investigator and there is a serious lack of patience involved. I understand that this investigator deals with this ALL THE TIME, but for those coming in for an application/interview it is all new to us and are unfamiliar with the process. It can be very unnerving/unsettling to deal with such a personality.
I'm pretty sure this investigator has developed a good judge of character during the course of employment (especially being out in the field prior to the CCW unit) but the impression is that they are irritable, impatient, and has a very low tolerance for honest mistakes.

I hope the rest of the process goes well, MikeAE.
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  #96  
Old 02-28-2016, 7:19 PM
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Yeah I hope so. She took my money orders and sent me to livescan. I got my info papers in the range test in Devore and we'll see what happens next.
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  #97  
Old 02-29-2016, 7:23 AM
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Default I'm quite positive they would have mentioned something to me about it...

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Originally Posted by MudWeeds View Post

Good question...


I asked them if they had been contacted.

I do not think they would lie about any law enforcement contact.

I'm quite positive they would have mentioned something to me about it.
As other have indicated that their employers were contacted, it is very likely that yours was as well.

Why would they lie about it?

Well, they may have anonymously given an unfavorable statement which led to you being denied, and they don't wish to experience any blowback for it.

After all they may fear that you, a gun owner, might take umbrage to their statements, if any.

I fear that you may now know where the process went wrong for you...
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  #98  
Old 02-29-2016, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MudWeeds View Post
The records supporting this decision are investigative records that are confidential pursuant to Code 6254(f) and the sheriff WILL NOT provide you with the detailed information concerning the investigation........... Now, I'm denied and they won't explain the reasons for it as it is "confidential."

I will appeal but what am I going to address in my appeal if they can not disclose the "confidential" reason(s) for my denial?
Too much confidential and secret stuff going on with the government these days. We are not headed toward a police state, WE ARE IN A POLICE STATE.
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  #99  
Old 02-29-2016, 8:26 AM
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The excuse of using 6254 (f) is bull. That is the same law that Sheriff Block tried to use in 1986 to block the release of CCW application information. Sheriff Block was smacked down by a Federal Court because CCW applications shouldn't be secretive due to the obvious potential for abuse.

The sheriff's office is giving you an excuse not to release that information that does not fly, and I'm pretty sure they know it.
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Last edited by Nopal; 02-29-2016 at 8:49 AM..
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  #100  
Old 03-13-2016, 12:37 PM
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just thinking out loud here but,

If you DUI conviction was in 2005, it may be possible the CCW restrictions include no convictions per a period of time - usually this will include successful completion of court orders/probation/DUI program etc.

It may be that your term since successful completion of probation or the programs has not lapsed yet as probation would be at least 2 years I would think and that would put 10 years sometime around 2017 depending on your particular circumstances.

Best of luck with the process
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  #101  
Old 05-15-2017, 5:48 PM
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It has been over a year...What was the outcome?
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  #102  
Old 05-15-2017, 6:22 PM
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It has been over a year...What was the outcome?
OP shows no forum activity since 4/2016 and no posts since 2/27/16.

I have a feeling we're not going to hear anything.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #103  
Old 05-16-2017, 8:09 AM
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What did you write for your good cause? If I remember correctly, all you needed was just "self-defense." Did you over complicate the situation by adding too much details?
He didn't get denied for 'Good Cause'....he was denied for 'Good Moral Character'....different things!!!

Draft up your appeal letter to the Sheriff and state your case and that you'd like to meet with the Sheriff to discuss/explain your record and to highlight your stellar citizenship since that indiscretion.
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  #104  
Old 05-16-2017, 8:44 AM
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He didn't get denied for 'Good Cause'....he was denied for 'Good Moral Character'....different things!!!

Draft up your appeal letter to the Sheriff and state your case and that you'd like to meet with the Sheriff to discuss/explain your record and to highlight your stellar citizenship since that indiscretion.
The OP hasn't been around for a year it seems. Well past his time frame for an appeal.
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  #105  
Old 05-16-2017, 8:46 AM
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The outcome was:
Denied. I filed an appeal, received a generic response for the denial, and have reapplied. I have a new appointment next month.
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  #106  
Old 05-16-2017, 8:58 AM
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Keep something in mind, guys:

Just as the issuing authority doesn't disclose their reasons for a denial, the person posting & whining about the denial doesn't disclose ALL his criminal charges/convictions.

People tend to trivialize their crimes by calling them "mistakes" or using phrases like "A few charges." Also saying "Charges were dropped." They're usually proud of themselves for getting away with something, rather than feeling remorseful that they put the lives of others in danger. If they really cared, they would never drive drunk a second time.

And people with one or two DUI convictions have usually driven drunk many many times without being caught. I'd rather people like that don't drive or CCW. Or even own a gun.
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  #107  
Old 05-16-2017, 9:08 AM
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Well said, Win231.
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  #108  
Old 05-16-2017, 10:25 AM
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Well said, Win231.
Huh? I don't think he's supporting your position. My guess would be that your criminal history spanning 13 years (1992 - 2005) was basis for denying. Only you know the nature and number of those incidents and anything else that you were arrested for and not charged. That said, you've turned your life around and stayed out of trouble for 12 years. One would think they would take that into consideration.
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  #109  
Old 05-16-2017, 10:49 AM
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It was completely understood that his comment was not in support of my position, SoCalPI. This doesn't mean that I do not agree with what he says. However, this forum is not my confessional. I've made my mistakes, paid my dues, righted my wrongs, and have learned from my mistakes. The person I am today is not the person I was 12-25 years ago. If my past transgressions will disqualify me from obtaining my CCW, this will be my cross to bear. I will accept this as fact and move forward. However, it would be pretty awesome if I were given a detailed explanation for the denial instead of a general and vague statement. It would help me to better prepare for my appeal if I knew what I were appealing.
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  #110  
Old 05-16-2017, 11:09 AM
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Just stopping in to say "this thread delivers!"

Thanks for updating OP.

Too often we have drive by posters that leave a thread hanging, it's unsatisfying. Rude!
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  #111  
Old 05-16-2017, 12:14 PM
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Without getting into too much detail, I was charged and convicted. However, the convictions were nothing that prevented me from a concealed carry license in the state of California, as I thoroughly read the disqualifications on the State of California Attorney General form. No disqualifying behavior occurred. My last charge was in 2005, my first in 1992.
No, I was not a juvenile.
Nothing related to dealing, related or gang activity? Don't answer here, just ponder. Also they seem to deny people who have photos on their facebook account where they are giving gang signs, smoking pot or doing lines (just saying)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudWeeds View Post
Just throwing this out there... I have a friend who has his CCW and he had a weapon and drug charge against him and he was approved. My history has nothing like that on it so it makes me wonder if it was denied because "they" wanted to deny it (for *****$ and giggles) or if it is meritoriously denied.
They don't deny (for *****$ and giggles) or the color of your hair etc.


Again good luck we are pulling for you.

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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
My interviewer saw the "M1" on my license and asked a few very pointed questions about club affiliation.
Not saying you are or are not affiliated, but given some of the "relationships" the department has had with some of the clubs in the area, I would imagine that membership or affiliation with any 3-piece would be a disqualifier... certainly any ties to a 1% club.
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Originally Posted by MudWeeds View Post
It never came up during my interview. I was clean shaven and well dressed, showing no visible markings, so my investigator had no clue as to my motorcycle or tattoos.
I'm sure the impression I leave with people, based on looks alone, is intimidating or threatening, but that is all it is... an impression. That might have been good enough for my investigator.
I understand the law enforcement perception on the 1%er clubs and their members. I am not a member or in any way affiliated with any 3-piece club. However, being that I look like one because I have tattoos and ride a Harley shouldn't automatically lump me in with those guys.
Nonetheless, I understand. I'd err on the side of caution as well, if that was the basis for their decision.
You made a deliberate attempt to hide your ink? Might be something as simple as that. They can smell deception, it's their profession. Almost everyone has ink, only time people hide it from LEO's is usually because they are hiding gang affiliations.

Not saying you have gang affiliations but they may have felt that was what you were hiding. This time around hide nothing. When we say dress for the interview we men take a bath and wear clean nice clothes, not try to look like something your not.

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Originally Posted by MudWeeds View Post
I know exactly who you are referring to, MikeAE. I have seen this investigator in action and it is definitely all business all the time!


I have witnessed a few interactions with this investigator and there is a serious lack of patience involved. I understand that this investigator deals with this ALL THE TIME, but for those coming in for an application/interview it is all new to us and are unfamiliar with the process. It can be very unnerving/unsettling to deal with such a personality.
I'm pretty sure this investigator has developed a good judge of character during the course of employment (especially being out in the field prior to the CCW unit) but the impression is that they are irritable, impatient, and has a very low tolerance for honest mistakes.

I hope the rest of the process goes well, MikeAE.
I big part of her interview is seeing if she can push your buttons. She is pretty good at identifying people with anger management issues. She can actually be very pleasant to talk to when she is not in that role.

Back to OP, Better luck this time around. Be relaxed and honest, let them see who you are now, Do not hide your ink.

GMC has a lot to do with being comfortable in your skin and with who you are now.
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  #112  
Old 05-16-2017, 12:58 PM
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Not saying you are in the same boat, but I had a friend denied based on his poor financial situation (i.e. late on bill payments, facing bankruptcy, ...).
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Old 05-16-2017, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Nothing related to dealing, related or gang activity? Don't answer here, just ponder. Also they seem to deny people who have photos on their facebook account where they are giving gang signs, smoking pot or doing lines (just saying)



They don't deny (for *****$ and giggles) or the color of your hair etc.


Again good luck we are pulling for you.





You made a deliberate attempt to hide your ink? Might be something as simple as that. They can smell deception, it's their profession. Almost everyone has ink, only time people hide it from LEO's is usually because they are hiding gang affiliations.

Not saying you have gang affiliations but they may have felt that was what you were hiding. This time around hide nothing. When we say dress for the interview we men take a bath and wear clean nice clothes, not try to look like something your not.



I big part of her interview is seeing if she can push your buttons. She is pretty good at identifying people with anger management issues. She can actually be very pleasant to talk to when she is not in that role.

Back to OP, Better luck this time around. Be relaxed and honest, let them see who you are now, Do not hide your ink.

GMC has a lot to do with being comfortable in your skin and with who you are now.
There are people who think they can read things into others & make conclusions--much like some read things into posts that aren't there. They think they're right but they're usually wrong.
If tattoos are covered, they must be hiding something. If they're not covered, they're an outlaw gang member & proud of it.
If the interviewer tries to push an applicant's buttons & he reacts, he has anger issues. If he doesn't react, he must be on drugs or not paying attention.

During a job interview years ago, the interview looked at the section of my work history where it asked for the "Reason for leaving" on two previous jobs where the business closed. I wrote "Went out of business." The moronic interviewer said, "You worked at several places that went out of business... What attracted you to these flaky companies that went out of business?"

When I was in my teens, my mom always complained about my long hair. She'd say, "People will think you're on drugs." I'd say, "Only stupid people will think that."
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  #114  
Old 05-16-2017, 1:15 PM
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Not saying you are in the same boat, but I had a friend denied based on his poor financial situation (i.e. late on bill payments, facing bankruptcy, ...).
That's a good one. Are they reading something into that like:
"He wants to carry a gun legally so he can commit armed robberies & improve his financial situation."

Some people have financial issues through no fault of their own.
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  #115  
Old 05-16-2017, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MudWeeds View Post
The outcome was:
Denied. I filed an appeal, received a generic response for the denial, and have reapplied. I have a new appointment next month.
Thanks for the update MudWeeds, and good luck with your upcoming application.
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  #116  
Old 05-16-2017, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Just stopping in to say "this thread delivers!"

Thanks for updating OP.

Too often we have drive by posters that leave a thread hanging, it's unsatisfying. Rude!
Updating after a YEAR!!!
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Originally Posted by 38Special View Post
It has been over a year...What was the outcome?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
OP shows no forum activity since 4/2016 and no posts since 2/27/16.

I have a feeling we're not going to hear anything.
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  #117  
Old 05-16-2017, 2:33 PM
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Not saying you are in the same boat, but I had a friend denied based on his poor financial situation (i.e. late on bill payments, facing bankruptcy, ...).
Really? I know someone that was approved years ago, and renewed every time, that had just filed BK.
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  #118  
Old 09-16-2017, 3:07 AM
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Just stopping in to say "this thread delivers!"

Thanks for updating OP.

Too often we have drive by posters that leave a thread hanging, it's unsatisfying. Rude!
Still no update from May.
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  #119  
Old 09-16-2017, 3:49 AM
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mike415stone mike415stone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win231 View Post
That's a good one. Are they reading something into that like:
"He wants to carry a gun legally so he can commit armed robberies & improve his financial situation."

Some people have financial issues through no fault of their own.
Financial issues should not be a problem as long as you don't lie or try to hide facts. If they ask and they asked me, I told them the truth. "Sometimes the finances get out of control, you do what you can to correct and move on with life"

I guess they were satisfied with the answer because it never came up again.

Hope we hear some good news from the OP in the near future.
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  #120  
Old 09-16-2017, 5:15 AM
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nine mil thrill nine mil thrill is offline
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........the thing that jumps out at me, is the OPs' ,"last incident".....in his statement. (maybe that would indicate that there were prior...."incidents" ??
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