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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
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#121
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just to shed some light on the situation I was one of the students in the class and helped treat the wound (I'm an EMT) with a firefighter who was also in the class.
1. The round actually exited through his foot. 2. it was a XD. 3. it was a OWB holster just normal Kydex holster not a serpa or the like 4. he was reholstering the gun while on the line doing shooting drills and didn't take his finger off the trigger. 5. there were 2 instructors on the line with 12 students with one other with the 11 of us not on the line. 6. The lead instructor explained many times the danger of doing that exact thing. Any other questions feel free to ask away |
#122
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In this case it sounds like lack of trigger discipline was the primary cause. And a grip safety wont save you from this type of ND. Good thing you were there! Last edited by SkyHawk; 04-03-2017 at 9:03 PM.. |
#123
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It was in the upper calf with a secondary wound about halfway down the calf where some bone fragments were showing, in addition, to the main exit in the foot. That's why I always bring some trauma stuff.
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#124
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End thread. Last edited by therealnickb; 04-04-2017 at 7:25 AM.. |
#126
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Thanks again! Last edited by SkyHawk; 04-03-2017 at 10:05 PM.. |
#127
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Here is a pic, I am actually running while in the process of grabbing a mag to reload.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#128
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no other class i researched around the area specified the need of a holster. i even found out later the "holsters" i do buy wouldnt have been permitted because i would need to reholster for the qual and the minimal trigger guards i like arent permitted because they are difficult to reholster without disconnecting from the belt. example: the interesting thing was that out of the 30 or so people in our class, i was the only one who shot a perfect score from all three distances, in half the required time and with all 3 handguns... ****ty holster and all. imo, these qualification classes should be focused on shooting, training on being aware of your surroundings and not involve whatever holster the person might choose. even my instructor stated that he has more holsters for each of his carry guns than he has pants. requiring your class to have a standard holster the old timers wear is silly imo. btw, this is what i will use now: https://urbancarryholsters.com/holst...ter.html#video |
#129
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i personally wouldnt want anyone who hasnt been training to come out to a live fire competition where so many other stress factors come into play. |
#130
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#131
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#132
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belted in would present an issue, as would solely using one hand. i expect the same would be if i could only use my right arm and it somehow because damaged when my standard holster was attached to my right hip. if it makes any difference, i wouldnt have a gun on my hip while driving anyway. |
#133
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Those types of holsters don't work well in class situations. In private lessons, yes. Classes, not so much. Some of them just hold up the line but some, cross draws, SOBs, and some shoulder holsters, for example, are not safe for a situation where other shooters are on the line. Quote:
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I always have my gun on my hip while driving. At some point I'm going to get out and I want to have the gun on me at that moment. A friend of mine was stuck in traffic at a light when he heard a tapping on his window. He looked up into the barrel of a .45 pointed at him. The gunman motioned for him to exit the car. As he did he removed the keys from the ignition and handed them to the car jacker. The crook sat down in the driver's seat and while he was looking for the ignition keyway, my friend drew and shot him. If he had been carrying as you do, in a locked box (maybe you unlock it while driving) or in a backpack, he could not have gotten to it. I think that, if you're serious about self–defense, on–body carry is the only way to go. |
#134
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#135
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Practice practice practice. Practice handling your pistol unloaded whenever you're not doing anything special. TV time is a good time to get off the bottom and practice draw retention, picture, then retention, safe, re holster. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and you wont pull the trigger and THAT is the practice point. Do it 1000 times right and you won't do it wrong. Put dog poop on the trigger and practice until you don't have a poopy finger :-) Disclaimer, I'm not sure thats a really good idea.... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
#136
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i live and work in a well to do area. if i were getting gas in west sac or the bay area, i would carry. i also dont expect to be able to pull my weapon when a criminal already has his weapon pointed at me. me thinking that i can pull and get a shot off before a criminal can pull the trigger is ridiculous, rambo thinking. this is why i actively work on paying attention to my environment and actively work on not putting myself in positions where i might have to draw a firearm. Quote:
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you have made some good points. i will try to carry more when my urban carry is delivered. i put 3 firearms on my CC permit, i can keep one in the lock box and one on me. |
#137
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The old saying is that "Practice makes perfect." But it's more accurate to say that "PERFECT practice makes perfect." If you're (not "you" specifically tsnoform) practicing with bad habits, all you're doing is ingraining those bad habits. I suggest either practicing with a coach, or doing at least some practice with a video cam focused on your entire draw, dry fire, and reholstering. You'll see things that you didn't know you were doing.
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#138
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Sometimes you have no choice. Sometimes you're faced with a guy, who even if you cooperate completely, he'll still shoot you. I saw a crime scene where restaurant patrons and employees had been herded into a back room, made to kneel and then executed with a shot to the back of their heads. I'll never let that happen to me. if necessary I'll draw against his gun. I might die, but I know that I'll be the last person he shoots. Not Rambo, and not Superman, just the realization that evil exists in the world and sometimes it must be stopped in its tracks. There are methods and techniques that will make it more likely that I'll win and not be shot, but there are no guarantees. Quote:
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I'd never put a bunch of students on the line working with holsters until they've either been through previous courses with us or have demonstrated high degrees of proficiency. Quote:
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That's great. I'd hate for you to be without a gun when you need it. It's very rare that a gun is needed, but when it is, there's no substitute. |
#139
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From what I hear Freds Firearms, the store that sets up the class is now permanently closed. That means the douchbsg that shot himself is more then likely suing. Another person who isn't man enough to take responsibility for thier own actions.
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#140
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I've read the posts, and I've qualified for a CA CCW in two jurisdictions, I get that we're dealing with serious and deadly stuff.
Maybe this is a little Devil's Advocate , or I'm just confused about something: When I think of this current ND incident involving a CCW Applicant on one hand, and a ND that occurs during some typical Law Enforcement training (not academy) on the other, I can't help but feel like the "hammer" comes down mercilessly on this instructor, perhaps the range itself, and of course the CCW applicant himself -- but not so much the Law Enforcement ND... How come? It's safe to say the CCW guy was presumably new to (at least) concealable pistols and needed training on their safe and effective use, right? Isn't this exactly where we're expected to make mistakes? I remember a DI from my Infantry training saying something like "bleed in training so you don't bleed in combat." We've all made mistakes - small or large - during firearms training, but there's no slack being given out today I just don't think that it's standard practice to fire the Range Master when there's a ND over at the police range, or during SWAT live-fire training (unless perhaps there's serious injury?) We don't think the officer(s) involved are let go, do we? I don't. Do we unreasonably cut professionals the slack, but tar and feather the new guy, and an instructor who didn't directly and actually cause the incident? Does this make sense? And when LE have a Negligent Discharge, don't the involved personnel undergo training to improve their handling skills? I'm not advocating "firing" anyone! I've seen video of a Las Vegas police officer clearly having a ND not five feet from the head of someone lying on the ground Should she have been fired for that? I don't know, the issue is too complex to just pop out a simple answer here. I just wonder if our perception or possibly conditioning has us seeing backwards on this? Should we instead be tougher towards the Professional -- gals and guys who are carrying in public 24/7, and understanding towards what the new guy is in training for? I don't have answers here - like I said, the devil made me do it
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193rd Infantry Brigade, Ft. Clayton, Canal Zone: 1977-79 __________________________ "If I could spend time with a historic figure? - A week with John M. Browning, at his workshop." "Every weapon comes with an instruction manual...!" Corbin Dallas, The Fifth Element |
#141
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Well, my perspective is a bit different; all share responsibility but It was sad to see the instructor sanctioned.
While I am very strict and apply responsibility to the instructor, the range AND the student, I don't believe I said anywhere someone should be sanctioned or punished. Because I don't think anyone was negligent; and I think there's a big difference. 1. If anyone attends instructor training or is an instructor if they think there is not a coachable moment here, well, I hope you don't teach at my range. And if there is a coachable moment, that means they share responsibility. That does not necessarily mean the student can sue or the i structor should be sanctioned. 2. The student learned his lesson the hard way. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
#142
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Excellent idea, but won't go over well with the anti-manual-safety folks. It may not have been a cheap holster as much as it could have been someone that has little to no experience holstering.
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. . .45 ACP. It's like a 9mm, except for grown-ups.. |
#143
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Fred's Firearms is no longer an approved CCW instructor for Stanislaus County.
Source: https://www.scsdonline.com/ccw.html?download=33 |
#145
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My big objection to the latest School Zone Law is that it in theory has all CCW holders un-holstering, clearing then reloading and holstering right outside school property. Whoever wrote that law didn't think. I think all CCW holders need basic training on Holster carrying somewhere before they can even practice at home. RE-Holster work is a lot like prepping a plane for a flight, you need to develop precise steps you follow every time. If there is not time in a class to do it properly at the range with sufficient supervision then it should be done with blue guns in the classroom. I would also think this was a good opportunity for instructors to offer additional training (Additional classes etc), course lots of gun owners are much more proficient at squeezing a penny then a trigger. Hope the injured party recovers and the instructor continues to teach.
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Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run |
#146
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why would a instructor lose his/her permit to teach others?
is this the "first" time there has been a problem in one of his classes? many repeat problems? this is like firing a math teacher cause a student failed a test. or a car driving instructor gets fired cause a student hit another car? this said coming from one who does not know any of the names, people involved. student failed a simple thing (yes very bad punishment here) but why would a street cop tell the instructor, your out of work? and where does a street cop get off saying this to anyone? what did the instructor do wrong? sad for the guy who "shot himself", but i understand this happens a bit in police training. do they fire that instructor also? .
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big gun's...i love big gun's |
#147
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He is still the instructor for the Police academy though. |
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