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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 02-09-2008, 10:48 AM
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Default $150 Scope- Nikon?

I've had a lot of Nikon cameras so I sort of trust their brand name although I know NOTHING of scopes.

I was looking at http://www.samplelist.com/default.as...ide_sold=False

And they seem to have the Prostaff or Buckmark around the $150 mark.

Are those a decent buy or is there something more effective for the price.

I'll just be plinking and hopefully the scope will take me out to the max reliable range of the .223 in a Saiga or AR. I hear that should be about 300-400 yards.

What about these: http://www.muelleroptics.com/products/MAPV451440.html

A Calgunner is also selling one of these for ~$165

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...254&t=11082005

Last edited by FlyingPen; 02-09-2008 at 11:15 AM..
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2008, 12:25 PM
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3x9x40 is perfect for plinking with a AR. Go with a prostaff. I have a monarch and a prostaff. Very little difference to me. Though the monarch is supposed to be better. I like them. Tons of guys yuse them. They are great and worth the money!
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2008, 12:42 PM
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What about the Buckmaster? What's the diff between that and a Prostaff?
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Old 02-09-2008, 12:46 PM
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Can someone explain about the different measurements of the optics? For instance, the last post: 3x9x40 What do those numbers mean, and why would that be perfect for AR plinking? What would a step up, or step down optic number look like?

Sorry for the silly questions, but I can never seem to find that info! So I come to the gurus!

Thanks,
Paul
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Old 02-09-2008, 12:49 PM
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3 is the min zoom, 9 is the max, 40 is the objective lens.

Objective lens determines how much light goes in so generally bigger is better if of the same quality.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 02-09-2008, 12:55 PM
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3-9 is the magnification. 40 is the objective lens size in mm. For quick shooting on a semi auto, or anything close range you dont want more then 3x mag. The higher the magnification the smaller the field of view. Makes it hard to find something thats moving, or in close. For shooting paper at 100-200yds the 9x setting will make it much more enjoyable. If a scope says 10x42 it is a fixed 10x magnification with a 42mm obj lens.
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Old 02-09-2008, 1:04 PM
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I'm not Nikon expert, but I think the Buckmaster is better than the Prostaff, and both are below the Monarch. People have been saying good things about them.

I'd buy a Buckmaster before an APV, but I haven't tried either one. My Mueller Sport Dot is OK, but not great.
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Old 02-09-2008, 1:11 PM
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Speaking of ranges, what's the practical range for a fixed 6x scope?
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Old 02-09-2008, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPen View Post
Speaking of ranges, what's the practical range for a fixed 6x scope?
Depends on how big the target is.

If you're target shooting & want a Nikon the 4.5-14 buckmaster is hard to beat.
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Old 02-09-2008, 2:49 PM
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Another important issue is the exit pupil, which is the diameter of the area in which you can place your eye and still see the entire field-of-view. It is measured in millimeters and is given by the lens diameter divided by the magnification. For a 3-9X40 scope the exit pupil varies between 40/3=13.3 mm and 40/9=4.4 mm. For maximum brightness in dim light, the exit pupil should be larger than your eye’s pupil, which will be about 5 mm at twilight, depending on your age.

Service rifle competitors use iron sights out to 600 yards. Army and Marine patrols use 3.5X and 4X ACOGs effectively out to 600 yards. You really don’t need much magnification. The price you pay for more magnification is higher glare, and loss of field-of-view and situational awareness. Maximum usable magnification for a 40 mm objective is about 12X. Beyond that, you are increasing glare, and loosing brightness and field-of-view with no real improvement in visual accuity.

I was at the SHOT show and was quite impressed with the new line of Echo scopes from Brunton. The optical performance seemed unusually good for the ~$100-150 street price. In particular, glare was very low. In my opinion these scopes are under-priced.
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Old 02-09-2008, 2:52 PM
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Thanks very much for the quickie tutorial guys! I definitely appreciate it! And Bruce, thanks for the heads up on these scopes, I'll keep an eye out for one!

How does this look? http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=581

If I can find one of these for sub-$150 range, would this be a good deal? Do you guys know of a good source for these, maybe one of our sponsors on here?

:cheers:
Paul

Last edited by PonchoTA; 02-09-2008 at 3:00 PM..
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2008, 6:24 PM
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I LOVE nikon. Just picked up my second Prostaff with a deal from SWFA.com....had a deal for a scope and rangefinder....with the shipping about $300.

Cant go wrong with a Nikon.........
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2008, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
Depends on how big the target is.

If you're target shooting & want a Nikon the 4.5-14 buckmaster is hard to beat.
Agreed, I bought one for my new rifle. STrong performance at a good price.
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2008, 6:38 PM
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Ok guys so down to the Nikon Buckmaster or a Sightron S2 for $160 from a local Calgunner in SD.

He wants $160, it's unopened new in box

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...254&t=11082005

So $150 buckmaster Nikon from the list or that Sightron?

Nikon 3-9x40 Buckmaster 6420, Matte finish, Niko-Plex reticle, 1" tube, fast focus eye piece, finger adjustable 1/4 moa windage and elevation, like new, factory refurbished $302.00 $149.95

Last edited by FlyingPen; 02-09-2008 at 6:40 PM..
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2008, 7:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
Depends on how big the target is.

If you're target shooting & want a Nikon the 4.5-14 buckmaster is hard to beat.
+1 I just got this Buckmaster and the optics are great.
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2008, 7:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PonchoTA View Post
Thanks very much for the quickie tutorial guys! I definitely appreciate it! And Bruce, thanks for the heads up on these scopes, I'll keep an eye out for one!

How does this look? http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=581

If I can find one of these for sub-$150 range, would this be a good deal? Do you guys know of a good source for these, maybe one of our sponsors on here?

:cheers:
Paul
Brunton also makes the NRA Sports Optics line of scopes. The scope you selected above appears to be identical to the NRA Sports Optics fast focus FV39405 scope of the same magnification, which sells for as little as $99 on the internet. I'd check with Brunton to make sure they are the same scope. I can only vouch for the Brunton model, because I had it in my hands. The Brunton goes for $192 on their web site. I believe they are the same scope, but cannot verify it from my notes.

At $99, the Brunton scope would be a fantastic deal. The Nikon Buckmaster and Sightron SII are probably better (I'm not sure of that yet), but also cost substantially more. You'll probably get what you pay for.
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2008, 10:36 PM
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So then between the Sightron and the Buckmaster... perference?
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  #18  
Old 02-10-2008, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPen View Post
So then between the Sightron and the Buckmaster... perference?
Two peas in a pod. Both will have moderate contrast and glare. Maybe the nod goes to Nikon on glare - the Sightron SII and SIII sopes I saw at the SHOT show were a bit disappointing. I haven't looked at the Nikon Buckmaster line however. If the price is a wash, then take a close look at warranty, knobs, and reticle. Something will push you one way or the other.
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:55 PM
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For $150, I would go with a Weaver V3 1-3 for $150.
It's a better near-to-far scope for an AR.
If this is purely a bench gun, than a 3-9 is fine.
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  #20  
Old 02-10-2008, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce_ventura View Post
Brunton also makes the NRA Sports Optics line of scopes. The scope you selected above appears to be identical to the NRA Sports Optics fast focus FV39405 scope of the same magnification, which sells for as little as $99 on the internet. I'd check with Brunton to make sure they are the same scope. I can only vouch for the Brunton model, because I had it in my hands. The Brunton goes for $192 on their web site. I believe they are the same scope, but cannot verify it from my notes.

At $99, the Brunton scope would be a fantastic deal. The Nikon Buckmaster and Sightron SII are probably better (I'm not sure of that yet), but also cost substantially more. You'll probably get what you pay for.
Funny you mention that, I saw this at Bud's

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411534811

I don't think that's the same scope is it?
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  #21  
Old 02-11-2008, 8:45 AM
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You can read some discussions on Sightron over at www.opticstalk.com.
http://opticstalk.com/search_results...58&KW=sightron

Do the same on buckmaster to get a feel for differences.

The Nikon's pretty popular, and the Sightron isn't talked about as much, but people like them for the price range.
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:19 AM
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Nikon's warranty service sucks but you're probably less apt to need it. Sightron's CS is great, but you may be more apt to have to use it. They're both pretty good scopes.

FWIW, I have a 4.5-14 buckmaster and its a great scope for the money. Glass seems much better than should be on a scope costing that much.
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPen View Post
Funny you mention that, I saw this at Bud's

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411534811

I don't think that's the same scope is it?
I should have kept my mouth shut.

I put a call into Brunton to get the answer to your question (I need to know for another reason). I'll let you know what I learn. As I said,the Brunton 3-9x40 was impressive for a $150 street price. If the same scope sells for $79, inlcuding an NRA membership, then it's almost too good to be true.
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Old 02-11-2008, 7:00 PM
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Thanks let us know.

I have a Saiga 223, a Remington 597, and I'm putting together a LMT AR build so I'll be needing some scopage.
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Old 02-11-2008, 7:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPen View Post
Thanks let us know.

I have a Saiga 223, a Remington 597, and I'm putting together a LMT AR build so I'll be needing some scopage.
What kind of shooting do you intend to do with these rifles and how often do you intend to shoot each one? You may be better off getting one or two higher quality scopes, and boresighter, and move one scope between multiple rifles.
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Old 02-11-2008, 7:52 PM
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If I were you I would wait until March. Nikon has there anual sale in March. SWFA has great deals then, as do all of the Nikon dealers.
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Old 02-11-2008, 9:00 PM
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You guys are a wealth of knowledge. One question, if you were to step up to a AR-308 and really just want something to play around with at the range, would these scopes hold up to that recoil? Thanks for the help.
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2008, 4:55 AM
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Depends, I would go Nikon 30mm scope 2.5x10x44 tactical or monarch. Some have found a Super Sniper Scope by SWFA to work well while they are saving up to buy a more expensive scope.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce_ventura View Post
What kind of shooting do you intend to do with these rifles and how often do you intend to shoot each one? You may be better off getting one or two higher quality scopes, and boresighter, and move one scope between multiple rifles.
I was just going to put a Simmons 3-9 I bought for $30 at Cheapter than dirt on the Remmy 597.

I was actually going to get a nicer scope for the AR build and put a decent cheapie scope on the Saiga.

These are all for the range, maybe out to 300 yards or so.

Are those boresighters effective for zeroing? What kits are recommended?
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Old 02-12-2008, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPen View Post
I was just going to put a Simmons 3-9 I bought for $30 at Cheapter than dirt on the Remmy 597.

I was actually going to get a nicer scope for the AR build and put a decent cheapie scope on the Saiga.

These are all for the range, maybe out to 300 yards or so.

Are those boresighters effective for zeroing? What kits are recommended?
start at 50 yards, sight it in there, and then make adjustments at 100 yards. You can start at 25 if its really off...
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Old 02-12-2008, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPen View Post
I was just going to put a Simmons 3-9 I bought for $30 at Cheapter than dirt on the Remmy 597.

I was actually going to get a nicer scope for the AR build and put a decent cheapie scope on the Saiga.

These are all for the range, maybe out to 300 yards or so.

Are those boresighters effective for zeroing? What kits are recommended?
Like solidmch suggests, you don't need a boresighter just to sight in your scope. However, it does have other uses that make it worthwhile for some shooters, like aligning the reticle to the receiver, recording the zero you got at the range so that you can get there again if you replace scopes, and swapping one scope between multiple rifles. Search for recent threads on this topic.

I have a Bushnell and it works very well. Simmons makes one for about half the price. I don't know what the difference is.
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Old 02-22-2008, 6:03 AM
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Default Brunton

Any word from Brunton about the NRA/Brunton scope? I have been eying the scope at Buds and it looks like a great deal. So far I have not seen any reviews of this scope. Anyone own one that can comment on the quality, low light usability, warranty issues, etc?

I am getting back into hunting and am looking to purchase a decent inexpensive rifle and scope and this looks to fit the bill nicely.

EDIT: http://www.brunton.com/press/Tech_Da...rif_scopes.pdf

This shows the Echo rifle scopes with a brand of NRA SO which would suggest that these are the same thing.

Last edited by butters; 02-22-2008 at 6:51 AM..
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:51 AM
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I left a message with Brunton, but didn't get a return call. My contact was at another trade show last week.

I concluded that the Brunton scope with a glass reticle is not the same as the NRA SO with a (wire) duplex, regardless of he similarity. The NRA SO is a decent scope (I handled it at the 2007 SHOT show, but that was a long time ago) - especially for the price at Bud's - but it's not the same quality as the Brunton that I had in my hands.
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Old 02-23-2008, 12:13 PM
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According to the pdf file linked in my previous post the NRA SO has an glass etched reticle. Are these not the same scopes? Now I am really confused. Is this an new 2008 model maybe?

Last edited by butters; 02-24-2008 at 10:12 AM..
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Old 02-24-2008, 9:52 PM
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Yea, I know it's deceiving. I think the pdf file is in error by listing the Echo brand as "NRA SO". According to Brunton, the reticles in the Echo line are etched glass and in the NRA Sports Optics line they are wire. There are other differences too.

I will call Brunton again to get the straight story. Meanwhile, be forewarned, the NRA Sports Optics scopes I saw in 2007 were decent, but not $150 scopes. The Brunton Echo scopes had much better optics.
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Old 02-28-2008, 3:55 PM
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Default Update on Brunton Echo Scopes

I got the story from Brunton. They acknowledge there is confusion about the Echo vs NRA SO lines and are working to get that fixed. The .pdf file on their website is in error. The Echo line of scopes has upgraded coatings, finger adustment knobs and BDC etched glass reticle, which the NRA SO line does not have. IMHO, the NRA SO scopes are good for the money, but not in the same class as the Echo line.

If you want the Echo features and performance, you should make sure the vendor says it is an Echo scope. They are in production and available direct from Brunton. They are a little cheaper elsewhere but expect to pay $100-$300, depending on the model:
http://www.knifesupplycompany.com/optics-brunton.html

Again, I mention these scopes because they are new and I checked them out myself. I was impressed with the optical quality. I really can't comment yet on how they stack up against other brands. I plan to do a side-by-side comparison in the next few months. If they perform as well as I suspect they will, I may post an update.
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Old 02-28-2008, 5:23 PM
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Thanks for the update. I was hoping they were the same scope but I guess not. Even at $79 w/ a free NRA membership at Buds the NRA SO model seems like a pretty decent deal to me. I'll have to think about it. Thanks again.
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Old 06-23-2008, 5:49 PM
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Update... I just found the Bruntons scope on clearance at Dunhams Sports in both the NRA SO versionhttp://www.dunhamssports.com/product...entPage=family and the Echo version http://www.dunhamssports.com/product...entPage=family for the same low price of $49.99 + shipping. I just ordered the Echo for ~$55 shipped. SHould be well worth that price.

Last edited by butters; 06-27-2008 at 7:11 AM..
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:29 AM
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LibertyOptics LibertyOptics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce_ventura View Post
The price you pay for more magnification is higher glare, and loss of field-of-view and situational awareness. Maximum usable magnification for a 40 mm objective is about 12X. Beyond that, you are increasing glare, and loosing brightness and field-of-view with no real improvement in visual accuity.
While I agree with the FOV comment, am ambivalent on the situational awareness comment (don't know what that really means), I think I disagree with the "glare" assessment. Glare to me is a harsh, bright, dazzling shine or washout of the image. "Increasing glare, and losing brightness" are, to the enduser, mutually exclusive things. Increasing the magnification with the same objective size will result in a dimmer, fuzzier image (the fuzzy may be wht he is referring to?) as your exit pupil shrinks. I refer to this fuzziness as lost resolution, not increased glare.

As for the 12x being max usable for a 40mm objective, I disagree. High quality glass and coatings will allow you to see quite well with higher magnification, but the key is QUALITY. The IOR 3-18x42 works quite well at 18x. The Bushnell 2.5-16x42 has good reviews also, and 16x is no problem.

As for the original topic, Nikon Buckmaster has a very high satisfaction rating among our buyers. Sightron is good too. We sell Nikon but not sightron, but they are a good product.


Scott
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