Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 04-20-2010, 8:46 AM
SVT-40's Avatar
SVT-40 SVT-40 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Az
Posts: 9,377
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desmark6 View Post
I agree with ap3572001........not going to be asking "soccer mom" so to speak, let the totality of the circumstances dictate my course of action
That's the problem with many here as well as non LEO's in general. They just can't understand that every "citizen" contact is different and LEO's will evaluate each one on it's own merit and ask different questions based on that situation. There is no "one size fit's all" in law enforcement.

Although the cars we drive are black and white. Just about everything else in police work is a different shade of gray.
__________________
Poke'm with a stick!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddletown View Post
What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.
  #82  
Old 04-20-2010, 9:10 AM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco/East Bay
Posts: 5,616
iTrader: 49 / 96%
Default

.....I made a stop this morning . An older fellow with His wife and grandson made a wrong turn ( on one way street). They had Washington plates on their van. I never asked Him if He had any weapons in the van......
  #83  
Old 04-20-2010, 9:15 AM
Turo's Avatar
Turo Turo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Dude View Post
WOW! I've just finished reading every reply on this thread. I just don't get the 'lie to the cops' mentality here.

1. Are you legal? If so why lie or talk in circles?

2. If you aren't legal I understand the lie, but you're just getting in deeper.

A lot has been said about obeying the law when carrying weapons in your car. Good idea. But, WTF is wrong with just obeying the law all the time?
We try to obey the law all the time, but there are so many convoluted and ridiculous laws, that I guarantee each and every one of us breaks at least 1 or 2 every month without knowing it.

As for your first questions, I refer you to my earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turo View Post
Officer-"Sir, do you have any weapons in the car?"
You-"No Sir."

That would be the quickest and easiest answer to give. It is not illegal to lie to a police officer! If he cannot see any weapons in the car (or things that would lead him to believe there are) and you don't tell him there are weapons in there, he has no right to know about them.

Now, it would probably be a nice gesture to let the officer know if you had weapons in the car, but it's not your job to be nice. No possible good can come of you allowing the law to look at/check your guns out.
Sure, the cop may be a nice guy/gal, and most of them are. But do you know 100% that every gun is being carried completely legally? What if you accidentally left one round in that magazine/cylinder? What if you forgot to lock the box holding your pistol? What if there's a small school a block away you've never seen before and one of your long guns isn't locked up?
There's a million things that can go wrong, and no possible good can come of any of them. (Okay, so you may be able to chat with the officer about guns for a minute, who cares? You're going to the range where there's a bunch of gun guys to chat with!)
...
Remember, that officer can make all the mistakes in the book and be forgiven, you only have to make one to ruin the rest of your life.
__________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
-Thomas Jefferson

Check me out on YouTube! Shooting, Engineering, and Dogs. What's not to love?
  #84  
Old 04-20-2010, 10:05 AM
IrishJoe3's Avatar
IrishJoe3 IrishJoe3 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,325
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turo View Post
We try to obey the law all the time, but there are so many convoluted and ridiculous laws, that I guarantee each and every one of us breaks at least 1 or 2 every month without knowing it.

:
Refer to my post #24, (quoted below for your convience)....

If a generally law abiding citizen made an honest mistake and was unaware of it and is receptive to a little instruction from me, then I'll generally explain where the issue is, have them fix it and kick them loose with a verbal warning. If a generally law abiding citizen made an honest mistake and was unaware of it and decides to play word games and just be a general PITA and waste my time then forget it, in custody (or cite, or whatever) they can explain their bad to the courts. I have better things to do that play semantics on the side of the highway, and I have very little patience for that kinda c---p.


I'm not the boogy man, I'm not big brother, I'm not the enemy, I'm not out to get you. I'm a joe just like you with a job to do. If you are straight and level with me and don't introduce drama into my life, I am happy to go above and beyond and will generally cut you slack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishJoe3, Post #24 View Post
I have pulled over people who through their own lack of knowledge of the law and no intentional act have been in violation of the law and have unknowingly set themselves up to get into hot water. If they are level with me, receptive to my guidance etc I will explain to them the nuts and bolts of the law and explain where and why they are in violation and told them to fix it or they will get themselves into trouble. Typically they are clueless, grateful for the clarification and fix the problem. Win win in my opinion. However if the person starts playing games, (from just a few of the suggestions on the board; remain silent, lie, play with words, only roll the window down a crack, etc etc) then forget it. I’ll arrest the violator and let them explain to the judge why they screwed up. Its clear to me they will not listen to constructive criticism and I would be just wasting my time if I try.
:
__________________
Urban legends are a poor basis for making public policy.
  #85  
Old 04-20-2010, 3:56 PM
Jonathan Doe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
iTrader: / %
Default

It seems to be that this thread is becoming more personal.
  #86  
Old 04-20-2010, 5:32 PM
BigDogatPlay's Avatar
BigDogatPlay BigDogatPlay is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beautiful progressive Sonoma County
Posts: 7,386
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
There is no "one size fit's all" in law enforcement.
That is sig line material right there..... spot on and well played.
__________________
-- Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun

Not a lawyer, just a former LEO proud to have served.

Quote:
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -- James Madison
  #87  
Old 04-20-2010, 5:48 PM
capo capo is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: That's Secret
Posts: 4,259
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
can you just hold up this sign
HAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHH YES!!!
  #88  
Old 05-07-2010, 8:05 AM
jaed jaed is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

What about when you are asked "Do you have any weapons in the car?" you say No because a unloaded gun is just a chunk of metal? In my mind it is not a weapon if it is not loaded.

What is a LEO's take on this?
  #89  
Old 05-07-2010, 9:25 AM
Samuelx's Avatar
Samuelx Samuelx is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles County
Posts: 1,454
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaed View Post
What about when you are asked "Do you have any weapons in the car?" you say No because a unloaded gun is just a chunk of metal? In my mind it is not a weapon if it is not loaded.

What is a LEO's take on this?
Playing games/wasting my time. Similarly, a knife is "not a weapon" if/when the blade isn't exposed or a grenade if the pin isn't pulled?

Another vote for what IrishJoe3 said here: "If you are straight and level with me and don't introduce drama into my life, I am happy to go above and beyond and will generally cut you slack."
  #90  
Old 05-07-2010, 9:30 AM
alex00's Avatar
alex00 alex00 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 840
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaed View Post
What about when you are asked "Do you have any weapons in the car?" you say No because a unloaded gun is just a chunk of metal? In my mind it is not a weapon if it is not loaded.

What is a LEO's take on this?
It's been covered, but the general idea is that a gun, loaded or unloaded, is a weapon. At least, if and when I ask the question. You can justify the answer however you like, but if the weapon is discovered during the stop, the officer may act with a higher level of caution because you weren't forthcoming with the weapon or it's location. The reality is that most people, legally transporting guns, won't have anything to worry about. But if you say you don't have a weapon, and I happen to see it, I may think you lied and treat you differently. At the very least you won't be getting the verbal warning for the traffic violation that I was probably going to give you.
  #91  
Old 05-10-2010, 8:03 PM
360PA's Avatar
360PA 360PA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 340
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

I had an experience of almost exactly what the OP was talking about. This happened almost 15 years ago on a Los Angeles freeway. I am following a caravan of other vehicles, cell phones and their use are not what they are today. So I am signaling with my emergency flashers to find out where the other cars were. This catches the attention of a CHP officer who promptly initiates a traffic stop on me. He starts asking me the usual.

He asks me for my license and I remember it being in another little compartment of my vehicle. So I rush to open the compartment and of course my movements are all being closely watched by the officer. I retrieve my wallet and he says, "open that up again." So I do, and there is an empty .40 case visible.

Now he's really interested. He completes his lawful investigative detention, but not before he "terry frisks" me and my passenger. Then he asks me if I have any weapons in my vehicle to which I say no. He looks at me intensely and says, "so if I search this vehicle, I am not going to find any weapons?" I say, "that is correct". Now, I don't remember if he asked or made me open the rear hatch of the vehicle (Honda CRX). I open the back hatch and he looks inside where a briefcase is stowed. I remember him looking at me strangely, he explains why he stopped me and sent me on my way.

I in fact had a Taurus 92F 9mm in the briefcase that was in the back of the car, but I am not certain that it was being transported properly. I'm not sure what made me tell the officer I didn't have any weapons in the car, but nothing came of it. I would not repeat my actions if I had a similar incident today, nor do I suggest anyone do the same, but that's how it played out for me that day all those years ago.

Now that I know a little more now than I did then, maybe he didn't search my vehicle because he couldn't, or maybe he had better things to do. As i understand it, since it was a motor vehicle, he could have searched my vehicle if he had probable cause that I had committed a crime. Maybe that PC wasn't there based on the totality of the situation. When he frisked my person, he asked me to step out of the car. I believe he could have "frisked" the areas of the car in my immediate reach as well. There was nothing in "plain view" and the while there were locks on the briefcase, it may or may not have been locked. If it was unlocked, could he have opened it? I think an empty casing could have led an officer to become reasonably suspicious that I have committed a crime; discharging a firearm from a vehicle perhaps? Could he use that little spent casing as his PC to search my car and its contents? I don't think it would be an unreasonable assumption. All the little details of the contact are no longer in my memory, so there will be things left unanswered on the part of the officers ability to conduct any enforcement action.

Just know that if you give consent to search, you may revoke that consent at anytime, its not an all or nothing deal. Additionally, if an officer is requesting consent from you to search, you can even limit the scope (how much or where) of the search. Even if the officer is within his right to search you, many may still ask for consent anyway. Just as much as citizens may play "word" games, LEO's often play that same sort of game as well. Your duty as a citizen is to be informed of your rights and the law, because LE will not necessarily inform you of those rights or the law except in certain situations that they are required by the law to do so. It is not their job to do this anyway.

Last edited by 360PA; 05-10-2010 at 8:17 PM..
  #92  
Old 05-17-2010, 8:16 PM
norcal01 norcal01 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 189
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

For what it's worth, I spent three years working as a police officer in the far northern part of the state before I decided to use my GI Bill to go back to school full time. I maintain a CCW since it's a small town and I frequently encounter people I have arrested and who are unaware that I am no longer a LEO. Anyway, I was recently stopped by an officer from my old department who didn't know me and he asked me if I had any weapons in my truck. I told him I had a CCW and had my kimber in a holster on my belt. He had me get out of my truck and took my pistol from me long enough to conduct an e-check and then sent me on my way. Since he had gone through the whole process of making me get out of my truck and held me up for the e-check he didn't cite me for the loud exhaust on my truck. The point is, being straightforward with officers if you don't have anything to hide is going to get you a lot further than "exercising your rights". Sure I could have lied to him but why would I? I wasn't doing anything wrong. Also, I don't know how it plays out in other counties but the local judges seem to frown on traffic stops taking longer than necessary and I have had a citation or two that I wrote get thrown out because the defendant claimed I took too long writing it, regardless of the reason for the delay. In my limited experience, if I were still working I doubt I would have taken the time to run an e-check on someone with a valid CCW and who was honest about having a gun in the vehicle. Call it poor tactics or poor judgement, but the couple of times I was the officer in that scenario I wasn't the least bit concerned about someone who was honest from the start. Plus, I always liked CCW holders, seems like that type of person was more likely to help me out when I needed it than cause me problems. Just my 2 cents...
  #93  
Old 05-17-2010, 8:36 PM
fullrearview's Avatar
fullrearview fullrearview is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Carson Valley, NV
Posts: 9,377
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier415 View Post
These hands are registered as lethal weapons. I am a black belt in Rex Kwon Do...
You think I got where I am dressed like petter pan here.....Foegedaboutit!
__________________
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."~M.Twain~
  #94  
Old 05-17-2010, 9:29 PM
Eat Dirt's Avatar
Eat Dirt Eat Dirt is online now
CGSSA Specialist
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Riverside County / Hemet
Posts: 9,767
iTrader: 285 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by norcal01 View Post
For what it's worth, I spent three years working as a police officer in the far northern part of the state before I decided to use my GI Bill to go back to school full time. I maintain a CCW since it's a small town and I frequently encounter people I have arrested and who are unaware that I am no longer a LEO. Anyway, I was recently stopped by an officer from my old department who didn't know me and he asked me if I had any weapons in my truck. I told him I had a CCW and had my kimber in a holster on my belt. He had me get out of my truck and took my pistol from me long enough to conduct an e-check and then sent me on my way. Since he had gone through the whole process of making me get out of my truck and held me up for the e-check he didn't cite me for the loud exhaust on my truck. The point is, being straightforward with officers if you don't have anything to hide is going to get you a lot further than "exercising your rights". Sure I could have lied to him but why would I? I wasn't doing anything wrong. Also, I don't know how it plays out in other counties but the local judges seem to frown on traffic stops taking longer than necessary and I have had a citation or two that I wrote get thrown out because the defendant claimed I took too long writing it, regardless of the reason for the delay. In my limited experience, if I were still working I doubt I would have taken the time to run an e-check on someone with a valid CCW and who was honest about having a gun in the vehicle. Call it poor tactics or poor judgement, but the couple of times I was the officer in that scenario I wasn't the least bit concerned about someone who was honest from the start. Plus, I always liked CCW holders, seems like that type of person was more likely to help me out when I needed it than cause me problems. Just my 2 cents...

Good story Norcal..

Thanks for sharing

Some good points in there
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------

Tumbled BRASS For Sale

Just check my Long Running Thread : http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=262832
  #95  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:03 PM
bambam8d1's Avatar
bambam8d1 bambam8d1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hill Country
Posts: 1,407
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

im a young guy who had a great idea to get a bunch of tattoos... full sleeves.. i swear i am a cop magnet.... they always stare at me and give me dirty looks as do most people in the general public. for you LEOs out there, when you do make traffic stops and you encounter people with sleeves or alot of tattoos, do you tend to treat them differently or assume they are up to no good? lol i always feel like I am going to get messed with during a traffic stop if I dont have a long sleeve shirt on.
  #96  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:30 PM
norcal01 norcal01 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 189
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I know I already gave my opinion but I have to chime in for the people who are debating whether or not lying about having a gun in your car is a crime. 148 PC and the relevant subsections says nothing about providing false information and 31 VC is not applicable to this matter. According to the current case law, i.e. the way previous rulings have affected how laws are to be interpreted by the courts in future cases, simply lying in response to a question, other than one which you have a legal obligation to answer, is not a violation of 148 PC. So refusing to roll down your window on a traffic stop, or refusing to identify yourself while lawfully detained would meet the elements of 148 PC. The intent of 31 VC was to provide traffic officers, or any officer enforcing the vehicle code, with the authority to investigate collisions without the hindrance of the involved parties deliberately providing false information. While the courts have generally allowed for more liberal use of this section than originally intended, it is only applicable to traffic related issues, thus it does not apply to a question such as "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" Whether or not you have a weapon in the vehicle is completely irrelevant in terms of enforcing the vehicle code as any applicable weapons offenses are contained in the penal code. So the bottom line is, 148 PC and 31 VC do not apply if you choose to lie. When discussing these issues it's important to remember that it is the spirit, not the letter, of the law which an officer is supposed to enforce, and many laws which are still in the codes have been deemed completely unconstitutional. (do some research on 647c PC) Also, case law is not reflected in the codes and nobody runs around collecting all the old additions and distributing new ones every time a court interprets something differently than they have in the past. Personally, as a law abiding citizen, I'd rather go to bed at night knowing I made it through the day without lying to a police officer.
  #97  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:59 PM
shellyzsweet's Avatar
shellyzsweet shellyzsweet is offline
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 26 miles from northern free america
Posts: 1,222
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

here's my take on it.....

If a cop at a routine traffic stop asks me if I have any weapons in the car....I'm gonna say "No." I won't say "I don't have any illegal weapons" or "I decline to comment" or simply not answer....cause I work in public safety....I know when people give me answers like that my BS meter goes off and I ask more questions and while I'm new in my field....if I can tell....cops can too.
Now the point of body language was raised....good point...but probable cause cant be established by body language or how a person apears to the LEO cause its open for interpretation. I could be nervous, sweaty, avoiding eye contact, shaking....and say "no" and he could know I'm lying....but if nothing is visible in my car...he can't do jack about it....if that means I get a fix it ticket and such....fine. I'd rather take the tickets than chance any weapons related charges (I'm in public safety after all....).
When I take guns to and from locations they are legal, they are locked, they are unloaded and out of sight.

Now lets say for some reason the cop DOES search my car....IDK my friend was drunk and apeared under 21....whatever (can't think of why or how that would happen)...but that would mean the cop pulling me over has a dang good reason or suspicion, cause they don't waste their time...if there lookin...its cause they think they are gonna find something (usually drugs) which I don't do.
Well if they are searching my car....I'm gonna shut my mouth and tell them I don't concent to this search and would like a copy of the warrant. After that I'll ask to speak to an attorney......BUT that would mean I'd have gotten pulled over, greated the officer politely, shut off my car, put my keys on the dash, given the proper paperwork and answered the questions he had provided I didn't think I would get in trouble, all the while remembering not to argue with him, cause I HATE people arguing with me at work....so I know what thats like.....needless to say...its unlikely to happen and falls into that "what if" catagory....and I'm not gonna worry about it.

However I also know a guy who was pulled over in 09 in his truck for speeding and he was going camping. He had a rifle case in his backseat (IDK if it was locked, loaded, whatever) and was asked if he had weapons....he said no, the LEO issuied a ticket and drove away....the LEO clearly wasn't looking for weapons or they would have seen the camo rifle case on his backseat....and seemed like a standard question, but he was in a forest area too.....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbiker View Post
You're creepy old guy.

You not getting it unless you're loaded like Bill Gates or have game like Neil McCauley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Blaster View Post
The wife told me tampons are on sale this week. She can pick you some up while she's out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edward View Post
What ever happened to "While I do not agree with what you have to say, sir, I'll defend to the death your right to say it."?
  #98  
Old 06-09-2010, 9:20 AM
Jared1981 Jared1981 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 276
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I guess I came to this thread lately.

I belive in the Constitution. I do not take it personally if someone does not want to talk to me. Stop being an alpha male and let it go.

If you pull someone over and they were driving like an idiot, then ticket them, the ticket should not be dependent on someone having a gun or how many girlfriends someone has.

Some people have stickers on the back of their DL that says that they wish to remain silent and do want to talk without a lawyer present.... I don't take it personal at all.

If a passenger in a car does not wish to identify themselves, I let it go, they don't have to... unless I have RAS as per Hibel v 6th Judicial Circuit of Nevada.

Bottom line, is that there are enough violent people out there causing harm to other people. I don't care nor do I have any interest in a non violent person that does not want to chat with me or divuldge their weapon collection to me.

Anway, this is my perspective.

I think the LEO's that die young are the ones that let stuff get to them. Sometimes it's hard enough to not let management get to us... if we let people who just want to exercise their rights get to us then some of us will be going home stressed out every day... I don't want to live that way.
  #99  
Old 06-09-2010, 9:40 AM
Mute's Avatar
Mute Mute is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Diamond Bar
Posts: 6,722
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Come on! Everyone knows the correct answer is, "Yes, and they're all bigger than that peashooter on your hip."
__________________
NRA Patron Life Member
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor

American Marksman Training Group, LLC
Visit our American Marksman Facebook Page
Diamond Bar CCW Facebook Page


Discounted NRA Membership Sign Up
  #100  
Old 06-09-2010, 11:30 AM
evidens83's Avatar
evidens83 evidens83 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oceanside CA x Tacoma WA
Posts: 7,897
iTrader: 50 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam8d1 View Post
im a young guy who had a great idea to get a bunch of tattoos... full sleeves.. i swear i am a cop magnet.... they always stare at me and give me dirty looks as do most people in the general public. for you LEOs out there, when you do make traffic stops and you encounter people with sleeves or alot of tattoos, do you tend to treat them differently or assume they are up to no good? lol i always feel like I am going to get messed with during a traffic stop if I dont have a long sleeve shirt on.
Ha I thought it was only me
__________________
WTS 10/22 Lasermax laser CHEAP!!!
  #101  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:53 AM
bodger's Avatar
bodger bodger is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,021
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam8d1 View Post
im a young guy who had a great idea to get a bunch of tattoos... full sleeves.. i swear i am a cop magnet.... they always stare at me and give me dirty looks as do most people in the general public. for you LEOs out there, when you do make traffic stops and you encounter people with sleeves or alot of tattoos, do you tend to treat them differently or assume they are up to no good? lol i always feel like I am going to get messed with during a traffic stop if I dont have a long sleeve shirt on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evidens83 View Post
Ha I thought it was only me

Here's one cop that might not have a problem with yer tatts:


  #102  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:58 AM
professionalcoyotehunter professionalcoyotehunter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Desert Area, CA
Posts: 12,981
iTrader: 84 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam8d1 View Post
im a young guy who had a great idea to get a bunch of tattoos... full sleeves.. i swear i am a cop magnet.... they always stare at me and give me dirty looks as do most people in the general public. for you LEOs out there, when you do make traffic stops and you encounter people with sleeves or alot of tattoos, do you tend to treat them differently or assume they are up to no good? lol i always feel like I am going to get messed with during a traffic stop if I dont have a long sleeve shirt on.
Maybe they like the artwork that has been done and are admiring it. I notice a lot of people check mine out but it does not bother me at all.
  #103  
Old 06-14-2010, 6:10 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 16,976
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Would it not be just as easy to tell the LEO that "unless you see something in my vehicle that you feel is questionable, and this is not personal to you, i don't wish to discuss all the personal contents of my vehicle. With all respect, officer"
  #104  
Old 06-14-2010, 7:15 PM
norcal01 norcal01 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 189
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I showed this thread to a buddy of mine who's been an LEO for a long time and who has more training and experience than anyone I know. He is also one of the best cops I have ever met and someone for whom I have tremendous respect, both as an officer and as a person. He summed up the possible answers as either:
A) No, and the driver is telling the truth.
B) No, and the driver is lying (and hopefully I can tell).
C) Yes, and the driver is doing nothing wrong so I won't f@%k with him.
D) Something else, which means yes and I am now going to do everything within my power to get into your car and see what you're hiding.

I don't know if I agree with him about taking a long-winded answer as a challenge but, like my buddy said, if the search turns up the select-fire M4 with a suppressor and an M203 attached to the bottom of it that the driver had under the back seat, the driver would walk if the judge decides the search was bad, but he's gonna do it without his illegal gun. A bad search is one of those things where there's not much you can do about it. Is it a violation of your rights? Certainly! Are you gonna be able to do anything about it? Not really. Most departments around here would take your complaint, show it to the officer and ask him what happened. As long as he can explain why he thought it was a good search at the time and was acting in good faith, your complaint is going straight in the round file. Whether or not the search is good is up in the air until the preliminary hearing, at which time the defense will try to say that the search was bad, the evidence was obtained without the officer having probable cause to search, and therefore the evidence should be excluded under the exclusionary rule. Assuming the judge agrees with the defense, the DA would have to decide whether or not they want to try and proceed without the evidence obtained through the search. If they don't, the case is dismissed and the defendant walks, but without his illegal items. Of course this whole scenario is based on something illegal being in the car and therefore doesn't apply to any of us on CalGuns (I hope ). And just getting the criminal case dismissed does not mean you have an airtight civil case and you're on the verge of being able to retire on the government's dollar. That may not be fair, but it is reality.
  #105  
Old 06-14-2010, 7:36 PM
cadurand cadurand is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 278
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

We're all allowed to not answer. I think we all agree with that.

Can one of the Officers here give a brief example of an encounter where someone politely declines to answer the question being asked?

Is it as simple as "I do not wish to answer any questions officer"?

I think that would be the compromise here. I do agree the "I have nothing illegal in my car" response isn't the way to go.

Closely followed by "Am I legally required to answer that question officer?" Answering a question with a question is probably the worst way to handle things.

If you invoke your right to remain silent that can't be considered suspicious all by itself. Correct?
__________________
NRA Life Member
  #106  
Old 06-14-2010, 7:38 PM
Samuelx's Avatar
Samuelx Samuelx is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles County
Posts: 1,454
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodger View Post
IMO, that is a terrible looking 'uniform appearance' (and yes, I have tattoos). Also, dunno if anyone from NY can chime in - is that guy really a sworn LEO, meter maid, or is he just wearing a costume (his outfit looks incomplete)?
  #107  
Old 06-14-2010, 8:09 PM
sc_expg sc_expg is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 25
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelx View Post
IMO, that is a terrible looking 'uniform appearance' (and yes, I have tattoos). Also, dunno if anyone from NY can chime in - is that guy really a sworn LEO, meter maid, or is he just wearing a costume (his outfit looks incomplete)?
Looks like a meter maid.

Patch says traffic
No gun or mags
Big ticket book in back pocket
Looks like he only has a flashlight and cellphone holder, no keepers
  #108  
Old 06-14-2010, 8:55 PM
joedogboy joedogboy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Bay / Co-Co County
Posts: 1,444
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
I do not ask people that I stop if they have weapons......I decide WHEN and WHO to ask that question. Based on many factors and details of the encounter.
My stock answer to cops on fishing expeditions is a mildly surprised "Why are you even asking me that?"


This is a natural response to a question that is itself a non sequitur, and gives them a chance to explain if they have any actual PC, or to articulate a suspicion.

It also leads nicely to the follow up question "If you don't have any reason to ask, why are you asking it?"
  #109  
Old 06-14-2010, 9:38 PM
guayuque guayuque is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 286
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh00tFurst View Post
There is a reason that after a HD incident that it is better to keep your mouth shut and let the lawyer do the talking. DO NOT GIVE OUT INFO THAT YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO.

Most people get arrested by volunteering info when they absolutely did not have to. Why put yourself into that position?
Wait a minute. If your weapons are legal and you have no illegal contraband, why the games?

I've been practicing law for 20 years, and yes, if you are a suspect or you are up to some potentially criminal activity you keep youg big mouth shut, period. However, if you are legal, weapons properly locked up and transported I see no problem at all answering the hypothetical question of whether I have firearms in the affirmative with the note that they are properly locked up.
__________________
Firearm owner, licensed hunter, lawyer, and card carrying member of the ACLU.
  #110  
Old 06-14-2010, 9:39 PM
weezil_boi's Avatar
weezil_boi weezil_boi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,333
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedogboy View Post
My stock answer to cops on fishing expeditions is a mildly surprised "Why are you even asking me that?"


This is a natural response to a question that is itself a non sequitur, and gives them a chance to explain if they have any actual PC, or to articulate a suspicion.

It also leads nicely to the follow up question "If you don't have any reason to ask, why are you asking it?"
perfect. no lying, no resistance, just a completely reasonable response to an out of the blue question. Your answer (or lack of one) can rest on the officer's response. Of course, your recorder should be on before he/she even makes it to the car

I for one would be happy to answer honestly if the officer could provide a good reason for why they are concerned about it. Otherwise it is no more a reasonable questions than any of these:

"Do you have any hi-heels in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any pickles in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any nails in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any eggs in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any disney DVDs in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any hammers in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any ammunition in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any stuffed animals in the vehicle?"

Any of these questions would prompt a normal person to ask "why would you ask me that?". If he/she has a real reason to ask... then I'd tell them the truth. Otherwise, such questions, even about guns, are simply harrassment.

**short version... to the LEO ...back up the question with a good reason you'll put on tape and I'll give a straight answer. Anything short of that is an insult to me and my family...
  #111  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:25 PM
50 Freak's Avatar
50 Freak 50 Freak is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,435
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

I hate to say it but I'd lie and say "no".

First off....frankly, I don't trust anyone to be fondleing my guns. And your TYPICAL LE knows squat about firearms and is going to open my trunk and see my Registered ARs, AKs and other EBRs and call SWAT on my butt so fast you'd think I was the second coming of Osama Bin Laden.

Then it will be about an hour or two of my time sitting on some side of the freeway in cuffs while my guns are finger F'd by every one and their mother. Then if I'm lucky, I'll get all my toys back and told to get my butt out of dodge.

Sorry not my cup of tea on how I want to spend my time. So I'll save us both the trouble and say "no officer, I have no weapons in my car" and then we'll both just part ways very peaceful like. If he insists on looking, I'll refuse and if he continues....well, that's why we have lawyers for.

I'm older now and follow this exclusively. In my youth, I was pulled over and asked this question. I answered "no" and was asked if I minded while he searched my car. I wasn't carrying any firearms and didn't see a problem with consenting. I ended up sitting on the side of the grapevine for 45 min, while a Chipper searched my car....the probable cause...I wore a T-shirt that had a figure of deer head on it and the word "Browning" under it. It wasn't only time consuming but pretty damn humiliating and in retrospect made me mistrust LE's for a long time (even though many of my closest friends are LEs')
__________________
I'm Rick James...Be-otch!!!!

Last edited by 50 Freak; 06-14-2010 at 10:28 PM..
  #112  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:35 PM
Purple K's Avatar
Purple K Purple K is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN ContributorCGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Solano County
Posts: 3,119
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turo View Post
Officer-"Sir, do you have any weapons in the car?"
You-"No Sir."

That would be the quickest and easiest answer to give. It is not illegal to lie to a police officer! If he cannot see any weapons in the car (or things that would lead him to believe there are) and you don't tell him there are weapons in there, he has no right to know about them.

Now, it would probably be a nice gesture to let the officer know if you had weapons in the car, but it's not your job to be nice. No possible good can come of you allowing the law to look at/check your guns out.
Sure, the cop may be a nice guy/gal, and most of them are. But do you know 100% that every gun is being carried completely legally? What if you accidentally left one round in that magazine/cylinder? What if you forgot to lock the box holding your pistol? What if there's a small school a block away you've never seen before and one of your long guns isn't locked up?
There's a million things that can go wrong, and no possible good can come of any of them. (Okay, so you may be able to chat with the officer about guns for a minute, who cares? You're going to the range where there's a bunch of gun guys to chat with!)

You may be one of the camp that says, "I've got nothing to hide, why not let them take a look?" And to that, I refer you back up to the list of questions two paragraphs up. Just because you're a perfectly law abiding citizen doesn't mean you never make mistakes. And one of those mistakes (or something perceived as a mistake by a misinformed officer) could land you in prison.

This all said, the question about weapons is not usually one that an officer asks on a routine traffic stop, so the probability of having it asked is slim, but if it ever comes, it's good to know your rights, and what can come if you choose to waive them.

Remember, that officer can make all the mistakes in the book and be forgiven, you only have to make one to ruin the rest of your life.
It is most definately illegal to lie to police officers, just ask Martha Stuart. She didn't go to jail for insider trading, she went to jail for lieing to the investigating officers.
__________________

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
"Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson.
"a system of licensing the right of
self-defense, which doesn’t recognize self-defense as “good cause”
Don Kilmer
  #113  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:56 PM
Turo's Avatar
Turo Turo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple K View Post
It is most definately illegal to lie to police officers, just ask Martha Stuart. She didn't go to jail for insider trading, she went to jail for lieing to the investigating officers.
So she went to jail for impeding an investigation? That is a crime. A cop that pulls you over for going 7mph over the speed limit is not conducting an investigation, and therefore lying to him/her is not impeding any investigation.

And from what I've read in this thread, it is in fact illegal to lie to a federal officer, but again that cop that pulls you over going about your regular activities is probably not a federal officer.
__________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
-Thomas Jefferson

Check me out on YouTube! Shooting, Engineering, and Dogs. What's not to love?
  #114  
Old 06-15-2010, 6:52 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 2,469
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
You're streaching a bit Joe. The provisions of "THIS CODE" refers to the Vehicle Code.
FINALLY!! Someone who got it right!!!!!!!!!! Yesssssss!!!!!!
  #115  
Old 06-15-2010, 7:41 AM
Sniper3142's Avatar
Sniper3142 Sniper3142 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 2,530
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple K View Post
It is most definately illegal to lie to police officers, just ask Martha Stuart. She didn't go to jail for insider trading, she went to jail for lieing to the investigating officers.
Totally WRONG.

It is not illegal to lie to police officers!!!

They may not like it but that is not my problem nor is it against the law.

And Marha Stuart went to jail for lying to FEDERAL officials, which is against the law.

Since I no faith in every LEO being a good guy, I will continue to give them as little info as possible with which to @#$! with me and answer "no".
__________________
Internet Talk is Cheap

Man Up, Show Up, or Shut the @#$! Up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C74HgbjSCLM
  #116  
Old 06-15-2010, 8:34 AM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,548
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weezil_boi View Post
perfect. no lying, no resistance, just a completely reasonable response to an out of the blue question. Your answer (or lack of one) can rest on the officer's response. Of course, your recorder should be on before he/she even makes it to the car

I for one would be happy to answer honestly if the officer could provide a good reason for why they are concerned about it. Otherwise it is no more a reasonable questions than any of these:

"Do you have any hi-heels in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any pickles in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any nails in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any eggs in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any disney DVDs in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any hammers in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any ammunition in the vehicle?"

"Do you have any stuffed animals in the vehicle?"

Any of these questions would prompt a normal person to ask "why would you ask me that?". If he/she has a real reason to ask... then I'd tell them the truth. Otherwise, such questions, even about guns, are simply harrassment.

**short version... to the LEO ...back up the question with a good reason you'll put on tape and I'll give a straight answer. Anything short of that is an insult to me and my family...
Because pickles, eggs, stuffed animals, etc can't hurt me. The quality of the posts in this thread has gone downhill severly.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011

NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
NRA Rifle Instructor
NRA Shotgun Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
DOJ Certified Instructor
  #117  
Old 06-15-2010, 8:49 AM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 43,146
iTrader: 130 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Just say "Of course I do. Don't you?" It should be good for a laugh while you are being detained for hours and your car is completely torn apart.

My thoughts are that if I have a screwdriver, machette, tire iron, or any other item that I was carrying primarily to be a "weapon" that I can immediately access, I'd tell a LEO about it. The fact that I have a tool such as a knife in my pocket or a Leatherman on my belt is another story. I don't consider them to be "weapons" any more than I consider the wiring under my hood to be a weapon. Yes, both are capable of killing but for me, they have other primary uses. As far as firearms which are being legally transported, it's a situational thing. Yesterday I traded for a C&R shotgun. It rode home without a case and on the front seat of my car. So, of course, I'd point something like that out to an officer. But, if I was in a hurry and had several firearms locked in the trunk, it's really none of his bussiness since, they are secured in a place that I can not readily access them and use them against him/her.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
Utah CCW Instructor


Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

KM6WLV
  #118  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:22 PM
5shot's Avatar
5shot 5shot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chino, Ca.
Posts: 1,253
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

So how many people here have actually been asked; "do you have any weapons in your car" when being pulled over for a traffic violation?
Other then Chippies and motors, most of the guys I knew and worked with didn't care much for working traffic. We'd answer our calls and spent the bulk of our time looking for bad guys. We'd never go out looking to write tickets, unless we were told to hit a problem area once in a while.
Most of the time someone would pull a bonehead move in front of you, and you'd stop them and either warn them, or issue a ticket. Unless there was something really suspicious about them, the contact was over as fast as you could write the ticket. If I saw someone with a NRA or gun club sticker on their car, good. Criminal don't support the NRA, or join gun clubs. If I saw that the person had range or hunting equipment in his vehicle, so what.
The people who get asked, "do you have any weapons in your car" are the ones that give you the impression by their looks or demeanor that they may be involved in criminal behavior, and may have a handgun on them or within reach.
__________________
John Bishop
Member: NRA Life, CRPA, WEGC
  #119  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:32 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 43,146
iTrader: 130 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5shot View Post
So how many people here have actually been asked; "do you have any weapons in your car" when being pulled over for a traffic violation?
I have, several times. The last time I was asked, I said "No........uh, no, I guess I really don't have any........." The first no was in an authoritative and positive tone. The rest of my response was in a more surprised and less positive tone. The officer really relaxed after he realized that my response was genuine and he even cracked a smile.

The last time I was ticketed, it was by a younger ChiP and, lucky for both of us, he did not ask about the back seat of my truck being piled high with rifle cases. It would have taken a couple of hours to go through each case and make sure everything was unloaded and, I would have had to be there to instruct him on how to check more than a few of the more unusual guns.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
Utah CCW Instructor


Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

KM6WLV
  #120  
Old 06-15-2010, 3:36 PM
bodger's Avatar
bodger bodger is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,021
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Isn't always the best policy to just be respectful and assert the Fifth Amendment right?

It is a right to remain silent, why not just....remain silent after respectfully informing the officer that you don't want to answer any questions.

And not allow a warrantless search.

The last time I was pulled over for speeding, the officer asked "Do you know why I pulled you over?"

I told him I didn't want to appear uncooperative, but all due respect, I wish to remain silent whilst I cooperate.

CA legal EBR in a locked case in the back of the pickup covered with a tarp.
Officer did not ask to search, issued me the citation, and I was on my way.
I doubt if a lot of jabbering would have gotten me a warning instead.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:51 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.