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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:03 AM
Almostryan3 Almostryan3 is offline
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So I live in santa ana on a small street and the street directly behind my house is apartments and I just heard 2 unmistakable gun shots (not sure what happened but the cops already showed up, heard the shots about 6-8 minutes ago) and then a car proceed to speed off including almost losing it leaving the street (tires squealing sounds like he over corrected once or twice). What are the laws of something like that happening outside your house and returning fire? This has never crossed my mind but say for instance it was on my street and my bedroom window faces the street and they were shooting at my house or toward it? Is that cause for self defense or not? Last time I heard gun shots around my house I was too young to think about that kind of stuff, but around my area in the time I have lived here (10 years) there has been one guy killed from knife rounds to the neck at the end of my street, then quite a few gang related jumpings and such. But just curious now as to what would happen if I shot from my house to someone outside shooting towards my house?
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2009, 6:19 AM
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Dude, if you want to enter the wonderful world of LE, you need to stop writing in such a rambling convoluted style, with all the compound questions. I can't follow it. Break down your questions. Keep it concise and to the point.
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Old 08-11-2009, 7:19 AM
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Nah, keep it the way it is. Maybe my next traffic ticket will be dismissed for wasting the court's time
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Almostryan3 Almostryan3 is offline
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What are the laws involving feeling threatened inside your house with someone outside your house?

Example: I walk down stairs. Take a look out the front window and there is a person armed with a gun in my yard or just in the general vicinity in front of my home. Say he has a ski mask on so I can't mistake him for a undercover LEO.

Is that probable cause for self defense and fear of my life or great bodily harm?
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:41 AM
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Much much better.

As usual, there is no black and white answer for any self-defense shooting. There are no absolute flow-charts that can be applied to the human variable. Given the scenario provided, my first blush answer would be no. The key element, is that despite the presence and appearance of another person, you have to be able to articulate that you were in immediate bare fear of your life or the life of another.

Could it just be teenagers playing a game of paint ball that got carried over onto your front yard? Halloween?

Now if this person is pointing the gun at your house, shouting threats, and even fired one across your bow, then I'd be inclined to say yes.

But remember, seeking cover and concealment, calling 911, and turning off all interior lights, turning on all exterior lights would be my personal recommendation. Do not leave a place of relative safety to engage the enemy. Let the cops do it.

Might I suggest a book for you to read? "How to Own a Gun in California and Stay Out of Jail." There's lots of good information in there, with relevant discussion of different situations.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:57 AM
Almostryan3 Almostryan3 is offline
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Ok, that makes perfect sense. I think no matter what even if someone was in my house I would be hard pressed to leave a room where my family and I were safely hidden with a gun to protect ourselves and a phone to dial 911. Just wanted to know.

As for the book, it is the one written by John F. Machtinger yes? Found it online, I will have to check it out. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:06 PM
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Yes.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almostryan3 View Post
What are the laws involving feeling threatened inside your house with someone outside your house?

Example: I walk down stairs. Take a look out the front window and there is a person armed with a gun in my yard or just in the general vicinity in front of my home. Say he has a ski mask on so I can't mistake him for a undercover LEO.

Is that probable cause for self defense and fear of my life or great bodily harm?
Move out of the world of "feelings".

Only deal in FACTS.

You are inside your home The "armed person" is out in your yard or vicinity.

Is a crime actually occurring? Maybe, maybe not. It could be young adults "playing" or a subject en route to a costume party. Or it could actually be a armed criminal.

Are you being assaulted? NO.

What should you do?

Call the police. leave the doors locked. Arm yourself in case the "armed person" tries to break in. Up date the police if you can to the subjects location.

Once the police arrive and have the subject detained. Leave your weapon INSIDE, and then make contact with the police to tell them what you saw.

Just remember if you use force of any kind you will have to articulate in great detail what the FACTS were which caused you to be in fear for your or your family's life.

Feelings just don't cut it.
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
Move out of the world of "feelings".

Only deal in FACTS.

You are inside your home The "armed person" is out in your yard or vicinity.

Is a crime actually occurring? Maybe, maybe not. It could be young adults "playing" or a subject en route to a costume party. Or it could actually be a armed criminal.

Are you being assaulted? NO.

What should you do?

Call the police. leave the doors locked. Arm yourself in case the "armed person" tries to break in. Up date the police if you can to the subjects location.

Once the police arrive and have the subject detained. Leave your weapon INSIDE, and then make contact with the police to tell them what you saw.

Just remember if you use force of any kind you will have to articulate in great detail what the FACTS were which caused you to be in fear for your or your family's life.

Feelings just don't cut it.
Good follow-up points!
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2009, 3:27 PM
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Just remember you have a huge tactical advantage and a higher survival rate if you stay inside of a building. The walls of your house is a huge advantage. So stay inside and call the police. If you start taking fire from the guy outside; then shoot outside from inside your home. Just remember you are accountable for every shot you fire.
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  #11  
Old 08-11-2009, 8:45 PM
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All good points, I'm no LEO but it sounds like your initial comment implied you wanted to hunt someone down based on a disturbance that took place away from your house. The way you worded it (to me), didn't make it seem like you were in any sort of immediate danger or fear for your life. I would stay in the house unless you were witnessing people being harmed by the shooter, just my opinion. You have windows and doors to view your target and move, it's hard to keep track of someone from the outside prospective. Shoot and maneuver, don't miss, don't hit innocents.
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2009, 1:38 AM
Almostryan3 Almostryan3 is offline
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Oh yeah definitely not! I was just saying for instance if it happened where they were directing fire toward my house. But Like I said most likely would stay barricaded in a room with family and firearm and call 911.
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2009, 3:07 PM
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If you're taking direct fire, you better make it rain on those tangos.
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2009, 9:58 PM
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UNLESS theire specifically shooting at you I think youre asking for trouble simply returning fire. Remember youre also responsible for the bullets that leave your gun. I had a shooting near my house 8-12 shots. I didnt run and barricade the door. Told the wife to get down lights off and got a gun out on the dresser but peeked out the window. Got on the phone described what was happening to 911 operator gave as good description of the car people etc as i could at 2 30 am.
buless little holes appear in my wiondow and walls I wodlnt even think of returning fire
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Old 08-15-2009, 12:20 AM
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What caliber were the knife rounds that injured the poor murder victim?
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  #16  
Old 08-20-2009, 11:07 PM
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Was this off 17th and tustin, i saw lots of police activity around the time of your original post.
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