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  #1  
Old 11-04-2015, 2:52 PM
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Default "THE FERGUSON EFFECT" REALITY or FICTION

Was watching President Obama being interviewed by Lester Holt from NBC News. The President was asked if he thought there was a "Ferguson Effect" that was spreading across the US because of the lake of support for Police Officers and support of Criminals. In short, President Obama did not believe that was or is a "Fergeson Effect" in the U.S., and he believes that Violent Crimes are decreasing!

(HEY---> Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger asking the Question and telling you what was said!!)

OK you old salts and new boots----What do you think? Is there a "Ferguson Effect" out there going on? Do you think that LEO's are just handling "Calls for Service" rather than digging for stuff? Do you think that the troops out there are in a bit more danger of how they handle real bad guys for fear of losing their job because of a distorted iphone video or politically correct spun media report?

What do you think?
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Old 11-04-2015, 4:28 PM
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Most officers will never do that anyways. They are too conscious to protect the public.
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Old 11-04-2015, 4:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtJim View Post
Was watching President Obama being interviewed by Lester Holt from NBC News. The President was asked if he thought there was a "Ferguson Effect" that was spreading across the US because of the lake of support for Police Officers and support of Criminals. In short, President Obama did not believe that was or is a "Fergeson Effect" in the U.S., and he believes that Violent Crimes are decreasing!

(HEY---> Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger asking the Question and telling you what was said!!)

OK you old salts and new boots----What do you think? Is there a "Ferguson Effect" out there going on? Do you think that LEO's are just handling "Calls for Service" rather than digging for stuff? Do you think that the troops out there are in a bit more danger of how they handle real bad guys for fear of losing their job because of a distorted iphone video or politically correct spun media report?

What do you think?
I don't think. I know the answers to both highlighted questions are "Yes".
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Old 11-04-2015, 9:46 PM
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It provides a great excuse for lazy people to be lazier and certainly doesn't provide any incentive for anyone to be proactive. That being said, we still have a Job to do and good cops will still do good at work; just maybe not as much.
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:05 PM
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The ferguson effect spawned the black lives matter movement aka people who won't go to places that have black on black shootings. Any way depends on where law enforcment is at in this country. My thoughts are small town, semi small town cops won't see the effect like say oakland, baltimore, L.A. ,chicago and so on. Also the d.o.j seems to put leos last right now. In my opinion the obama/Bloomberg agenda is not good for cops. They don't want proactive leos.
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Old 11-04-2015, 10:20 PM
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Also I have 3 friends in law enforcement 2 CHP, 1 local pd, and they say the release of "low level offenders" is going to be more of a problem then anything. Thanks to moonbeam jerry brown. So be ready for steady stream of tweakers roaming around.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:32 AM
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Anyone who says there isn't a Ferguson Effect is either blind or a liar. I've only been on the job for a handful of years and it's a totally different world than when I started. Crime is out of control, drugs are everywhere, and politicians have police administrations tucking their tails. There has also been a huge increase in defiance from members of the public, which increases the danger and increases the amount of force you have to use on some of these ppl. The age of the "I know my rights," YouTube lawyer is upon us.

I can tell you without a doubt officers are less active for fear of being crucified by not only the media, but internally as well. Where's the incentive to do anything but respond to calls and cut paper? We all want to help and signed up for this job to do just that, but to fear losing ur job over a simple use of force on some jack hole isn't worth losing a 30 year career and ur 3 at 50. It's quite sad because at the end of the day it's the citizens who will pay.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:39 AM
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You don't have to be a LEO. Heck, you don't even have to like LEOs to know damned well that this president has done everything possible to create the worse race violence and a sense for a certain group of, "People" for lack of a better more PC term, to have a green light to kill Krackaz and LEOs.
That anyone would even consider it not be true, would be a complete dismissal of reality.
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  #9  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
It's quite sad because at the end of the day it's the citizens who will pay.
It always is.


Cops get stuck with Dept Policy that is detrimental to doing a good job, and puts them at higher risks. Because Chiefs of Police, Sheriffs, and higher rank administrative type LEOs, who set those policies, are nothing but political butt puppets themselves. Who care more about their percieved image in the Bias Stream Media. Than about the welfare of officers they command, or the citizens they serve.

Cops cannot do efficient Community Policing. Unless they have the cooperation, trust, and respect of the community. Yet Dept heads, politicians, and the BSM, promote the "Us v Them " divisiveness that destroys trust, respect, and thus cooperation.

Creating a Orobouros Public Serpent. With LE as the tail that is being perpetually eaten.

JM2c
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  #10  
Old 11-05-2015, 1:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
Anyone who says there isn't a Ferguson Effect is either blind or a liar. I've only been on the job for a handful of years and it's a totally different world than when I started. Crime is out of control, drugs are everywhere, and politicians have police administrations tucking their tails. There has also been a huge increase in defiance from members of the public, which increases the danger and increases the amount of force you have to use on some of these ppl. The age of the "I know my rights," YouTube lawyer is upon us.

I can tell you without a doubt officers are less active for fear of being crucified by not only the media, but internally as well. Where's the incentive to do anything but respond to calls and cut paper? We all want to help and signed up for this job to do just that, but to fear losing ur job over a simple use of force on some jack hole isn't worth losing a 30 year career and ur 3 at 50. It's quite sad because at the end of the day it's the citizens who will pay.
Perfectly stated
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Old 11-05-2015, 2:20 PM
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My department has had two officers (out of less than 70) quit in the last month or so because of the Ferguson effect combined with the joke that is our legal system. Both had less than 10 years on and will no longer be in law enforcement. One was an investigator who was sick and tired of the light sentences people were getting. Ex: lady in OC who got multiple years in prison for texting while driving and causing a fatal accident, vs a similar case we had but the driver admitted fault and only got a few years probation.
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Old 11-05-2015, 2:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtJim View Post
Was watching President Obama being interviewed by Lester Holt from NBC News. The President was asked if he thought there was a "Ferguson Effect" that was spreading across the US because of the lake of support for Police Officers and support of Criminals. In short, President Obama did not believe that was or is a "Fergeson Effect" in the U.S., and he believes that Violent Crimes are decreasing!


OK you old salts and new boots----What do you think? Is there a "Ferguson Effect" out there going on?
See the reciprocal of the bolded to answer your question.

Anything that comes out of that Moron's mouth is pretty much the opposite of truth.
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Old 11-05-2015, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
Anyone who says there isn't a Ferguson Effect is either blind or a liar. I've only been on the job for a handful of years and it's a totally different world than when I started. Crime is out of control, drugs are everywhere, and politicians have police administrations tucking their tails. There has also been a huge increase in defiance from members of the public, which increases the danger and increases the amount of force you have to use on some of these ppl. The age of the "I know my rights," YouTube lawyer is upon us.

I can tell you without a doubt officers are less active for fear of being crucified by not only the media, but internally as well. Where's the incentive to do anything but respond to calls and cut paper? We all want to help and signed up for this job to do just that, but to fear losing ur job over a simple use of force on some jack hole isn't worth losing a 30 year career and ur 3 at 50. It's quite sad because at the end of the day it's the citizens who will pay.
Spot on!
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2015, 5:39 PM
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I have been talking to guys I know lately about this topic. I talked to a former partner this morning who is currently on a motor. He is at 41 months and counting. He is checking out at 50 and will do something else. He said the job has gotten much worse since I left, and said even the jails are a joke now. Inmates running the various facilities, and deputies afraid to get in trouble. I am glad I am out.
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Old 11-05-2015, 6:30 PM
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The troops are being pressured from all sides, management doesn't know how to lead (and is giving in to social pressure), media and social media has the community in a frenzy, any action is put under a microscope...almost feels like lambs to the slaughter. What's great about law enforcement is no matter what even when the are under appreciated and disrespeced they (for the most part) will do whats right.
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Old 11-05-2015, 6:52 PM
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It's real, but I think in California Ab109 and prop 47 are having a much larger effect on morale and proactivity.
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Old 11-05-2015, 9:54 PM
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You eventually realize after some time on the job that there is nothing to be gained by actively going after the bad guys. Your supervisors dont want it, the citizens dont want it, and neither do the prosecutors or juries. After about 8 years of making lots of arrests, I got tired of being sued, internally investigated, deposed by turd attorneys, and second guessed by incompetent Sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains, you name it.
I am now much happier after giving up my special assignments and just going where I get dispatched.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:42 AM
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I posted this in another thread, but it applies to this one as well.

"The blinders are on and will stay on until I retire. I soul searched this issue for a LONG time. Initially I thought the oath I took and the man I am trumped all the crap. I tried to convince myself that most people deserved my all.

I'm done with that crap. The right side of the aisle and it's citizens are deafeningly silent when we are taking the hits. The left is as loud as can be. They can ALL go to hell!!!!

I'm done and the blinders are on."
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:51 AM
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Locally speaking, not sure about a Ferguson effect, but where we are, Prop 47 combined with an understaffed PD is resulting in citizens realizing that unless there's a body or a gun involved, it's pretty much pointless even to report crime. That being the case from the non-LEO perspective, I can't imagine what is must be like from the LEO side; what would motivate you do go to work every day, really.
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Old 11-06-2015, 1:38 PM
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Current society wants robots, not heroes. The Community Policing model will be replaced by the old, Professional Policing model.

I am watching this all unfold with the eyes of a hopeful "new boot". My mentality is changing after the constant stories of blues being crucified and exiled by the agencies that hired them.

If you have no faith in your administration, how do you continue to do what you do? I am very, very selective with my agencies now. The recommended shotgun approach will not cut it.

Last edited by code_blue; 11-06-2015 at 1:45 PM..
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Old 11-07-2015, 1:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
Current society wants robots, not heroes. The Community Policing model will be replaced by the old, Professional Policing model.
Most of those people want robots until they are being stopped/detained/dealing with law enforcement themselves; then they want the spirit of the law applied to them in a compassionate manner that takes into account their unique (or at least what they think are unique) circumstances. They then want letter of the law applied to whoever may be annoying/vicitimizing them and they want you to do it all in a timely fashion without hurting anyone's feelings or bodies.
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:20 PM
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When a straw purchaser of a firearm used to kill a LEO is given probation and a LEO doing their job but is fired for nothing more than the chief wanting to appease the community... An anti LE executive commander...

It's hard not to see the effect.

I'm starting to believe the LE in LEO has stopped standing for law enforcement as illegal immigrants are now "undocumented immigrants", possession of cocaine is just as serious as driving without a license and mob rule seems to be the norm.

Dan

Last edited by DNA; 11-07-2015 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:32 PM
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Respect the good LEO's doing a great job

The "Ferguson Effect" is real, "leadership" from on high, highest possible- tried to come down on a good cop who did the correct thing and was deemed innocent- but they wanted to burn him.

"Leadership" was not happy- false narrative denied.

We all saw it played out.

Ferguson Effect- is very real, was established by current national ''leadership" and will continue until they are out of office- if not beyond.
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Old 11-07-2015, 1:27 PM
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My son says almost all contact with blacks is a hassle now. First thing is "why you picking on me cause I am black" followed by person raising voice and trying to escalate the situation. Even a simple courtesy stop over a headlight goes straight to "your profiling me"

He ignores the BS but tells me he dreads even routine contact now.

Not to mention the prop 47 idiots who know they will get processed and sent on way...although some idiots think a break in will just be a ticket at the site
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Old 11-07-2015, 1:36 PM
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In Pittsburgh, you've got these dingleberries, second-guessing EVERY police use of force incident.



The middle one is the HEAD dingleberry - it's is physically PAINFUL watching her try to formulate a thought, or a coherent sentence. I wouldn't trust her to second-guess the garbage collectors, much less the police.

I'm sure the Ferguson Effect is going to the HEAD of people like this, which can only thrill the police to no end...
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Old 11-07-2015, 9:33 PM
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I am so glad I am retired and my LE career is behind me. Would never do it again!!
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody33 View Post
It's real, but I think in California Ab109 and prop 47 are having a much larger effect on morale and proactivity.
This is spot on. I think to some degree California LEOs have been dealing with the Ferguson effect before there was a Ferguson effect (referring to Rodney King). You couple these "effects" with the lunacy of AB109/Prop 47, and you have a recipe for absolute disillusionment. I could better deal with either of the two following scenarios:

No "effect", (Ferguson or otherwise) and de facto decriminalization; or "effect" and a real criminal justice system.

In this current environment the risk vs reward just isn't there, and as previously stated, it is the citizens that will ultimately suffer. I pray it turns around sooner rather than later, but I'm afraid things are going to get much worse.
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