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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 10-29-2011, 10:09 PM
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Thumbs up "Are Cops Racist?"

That's the title of a book by Heather MacDonald that I thought I'd bring to your attention, if you haven't heard of it before.

You can read about Heather and a number of her articles are linked online:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mac_donald.htm

Info about her book: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/cops/

Amazon's webpage for her book: http://www.amazon.com/Are-Cops-Racis...9954468&sr=8-1
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2011, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
That's the title of a book by Heather MacDonald that I thought I'd bring to your attention, if you haven't heard of it before.

You can read about Heather and a number of her articles are linked online:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mac_donald.htm

Info about her book: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/cops/

Amazon's webpage for her book: http://www.amazon.com/Are-Cops-Racis...9954468&sr=8-1
IBTL

;-)

There is a LOT on anything related to race. Urban Studies was my undeclared minor. That, and I have always been parts of diverse communities, by choice.


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  #3  
Old 10-29-2011, 10:31 PM
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My experience has been that the party that makes the racism complaint is usually the true racist.
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  #4  
Old 10-29-2011, 11:03 PM
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IBTL.

Looks like a very interesting read! I'll definitely try and check it out.
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  #5  
Old 10-29-2011, 11:37 PM
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I should write a book too - "Is Heather A Dumb B****?"

And the point of this thread is what???
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2011, 4:14 AM
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@SamuelX
If you actually bothered to click on 1 of the links you would notice that she is pro cop.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2011, 6:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Samuelx View Post
I should write a book too - "Is Heather A Dumb B****?"

And the point of this thread is what???
Are you sure that you want to imply that she is a "Dumb B****"? Here is a summary of the book:

Quote:
Mac Donald brings her special brand of tough and honest journalism to the current war on the police. She looks at allegations of racial profiling, and finds them wildly exaggerated, and writes about the black cops you never heard about, biased press coverage of policing, and how the reduction in urban crime as a result of activist policing has benefited black communities even more than white neighborhoods. Her iconoclastic findings demolish the prevailing anti-cop orthodoxy.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2011, 6:27 AM
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Lol yes they are
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2011, 6:40 AM
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The fact that some people have to read a book, to guide their opinion due to the lack of personal experience, tells me they are just naive easy to persuade type of individuals.

Im sure there are cops that are racist, just like there are racist people in any profesion. In law enforcement, racial profiling is necessary to get the job done. We live in a rough world and only the sheltered has the luxury to criticize those who do the dirty work for them.

A cop working in East L.A. will profile Hispanics and Blacks. A cop in some hick town in West Virginia will profile Whites. Its not about race but more about the ethnic makeup of an area.

The days of Martin Luther King Jr. are long gone. Minorities in California have more rights than whites. Soon even illegal aliens will be protected and receive more benefits than whites. WTF is everybody crying about?

People need to drop the race card and stop using it as a crutch to justify their ****ty predicament in life. U pay for the life you choose. Stop crying.
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2011, 6:41 AM
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aha bump to the first page!
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  #11  
Old 10-30-2011, 9:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mickael81 View Post
The fact that some people have to read a book, to guide their opinion due to the lack of personal experience, tells me they are just naive easy to persuade type of individuals.

Im sure there are cops that are racist, just like there are racist people in any profesion. In law enforcement, racial profiling is necessary to get the job done. We live in a rough world and only the sheltered has the luxury to criticize those who do the dirty work for them.

A cop working in East L.A. will profile Hispanics and Blacks. A cop in some hick town in West Virginia will profile Whites. Its not about race but more about the ethnic makeup of an area.

The days of Martin Luther King Jr. are long gone. Minorities in California have more rights than whites. Soon even illegal aliens will be protected and receive more benefits than whites. WTF is everybody crying about?

People need to drop the race card and stop using it as a crutch to justify their ****ty predicament in life. U pay for the life you choose. Stop crying.
I hope you're not a cop...
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2011, 9:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Mickael81 View Post
The fact that some people have to read a book, to guide their opinion due to the lack of personal experience, tells me they are just naive easy to persuade type of individuals.

Im sure there are cops that are racist, just like there are racist people in any profesion. In law enforcement, CRIMINAL profiling is necessary to get the job done. We live in a rough world and only the sheltered has the luxury to criticize those who do the dirty work for them.

A cop working in East L.A. will profile Hispanics and Blacks. A cop in some hick town in West Virginia will profile Whites. Its not about race but more about the ethnic makeup of an area.

The days of Martin Luther King Jr. are long gone. Minorities in California have more rights than whites. Soon even illegal aliens will be protected and receive more benefits than whites. WTF is everybody crying about?

People need to drop the race card and stop using it as a crutch to justify their ****ty predicament in life. U pay for the life you choose. Stop crying.

I fixed it for you... I hope your original post was joke.
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:32 AM
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Gadsden & Grizzly - my points:

Simply by the choice of a title, you can evoke a certain reaction or response (i.e. Sensationalize). "Are Cops Racist?" is vague and open for interpretation/opinion as opposed to "Cops Aren't Racist" or "Cops Aren't As Racist As They Appear", which are pretty straight forward. "Are Cops Racist?" could be an honest question or it could be an accusation and stirring the pot. Ditto with "Is Heather A Dumb B****?" I could be accusing her of being that, I could be stirring the pot, it could be an honest question, or it could be me sensationalizing and intending to prove that Heather isn't. Just by me proposing that title, with no further info, how can you be sure of how I feel? See the similarity?

If a thread is started about something non self-explanatory and with blind links, IMO, there should be a quick line or two about who/what the thread is about - which would further explain exactly what the Author means with a title of "Are Cops Racist?". Btw, my inclination is not to click on blind links - especially if there is a risk of me reading some more anti-LE gibberish...
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2011, 2:05 PM
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They are not. I have been an LEO almost 20 years. I am SURE some people are , but not the people I know or worked with .

From living in US most of my life , Midwest and Ca, what I see that MOST "normal" people have prejustice toward a "TYPE" of people. Not their race.

More like a stereotype.

I am white and may have prejudice toward some stereotype of people who are also white. Is that racism?

When I meet a person , I SEE what race they are. To me its important what kind of a person it is.

That is not just about work , but life in general.

Last edited by ap3572001; 10-31-2011 at 4:54 AM..
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2011, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
They are not. I have been an LEO almost 20 years. I am SURE some people are , but not the people I know or worked with .

From living in US most of my life , Midwest and Ca, what I see that MOST "normal" people have prejustice toward a "TYPE" of people. Not their race.

More like a stereotype.

I am white and may have prejustice toward some stereotype of people who are also white. Is that racism?

When I meet a person , I SEE what race they are. To me its important what kind of a person it is.

That is not just about work , but life in general.

Not to run off topic, but EVERY time I read one of your posts - which are generally precluded with "I am LE," I wonder to myself how you write reports or communicate adequately. "Prejustice" is just the tip of the iceberg. I've had to literally break down some of your sentences to try and make sense of them, and most of the time I'm unsuccessful.

What type of LE work do you do?
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2011, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mlatino View Post
Not to run off topic, but EVERY time I read one of your posts - which are generally precluded with "I am LE," I wonder to myself how you write reports or communicate adequately. "Prejustice" is just the tip of the iceberg. I've had to literally break down some of your sentences to try and make sense of them, and most of the time I'm unsuccessful.

What type of LE work do you do?
Sorry. Droid X key board sucks. ....Also I can communicate very well. What type of LE work? Warrants, range, task force (overtime). Thanks for watching my spelling

Last edited by ap3572001; 10-30-2011 at 5:14 PM..
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:04 PM
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Bottom line, it's based on class - is subconcious, etc.

Everyone has it - xenophobia is evolutionary. I just ignore it when it pops into my head. Most LE I have met are that way.

I don't know how to say it - but it is more MORAL to admit a problem than to deny it. I admit my issues, and I just work on them, like a real person. I do not deny them. Deception of self hurts.


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  #18  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:06 PM
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after watching 20 years or so of "cops" and a seasons of "bait car" a person my notice a trend
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:45 PM
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after watching 20 years or so of "cops" and a seasons of "bait car" a person my notice a trend
That more crime occurs in cities?

DUDE, parse out the math. It is not related to race. It is related to the fact that filming in citified areas makes a better a-reel.


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Old 10-30-2011, 10:46 PM
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There are statistics, but they oppose what you see on TV. It IS a class issue.


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  #21  
Old 10-30-2011, 11:21 PM
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My experience has been that the party that makes the racism complaint is usually the true racist.
+1

There are of course exceptions, but a good rule of thumb.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:09 AM
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I don't think cops are racist. If you look at the stats there are more minorities in jail/prison but I think it has to do with their standing in society. poverty, lower working class, living in inner cities. Where as white people are mostly upper middle class living in suburbs. Then you look at lower class crimes = violent/property crime, where as upper class crimes are white collar crimes.
Officers are definitely more able to see and catch a person committing a violent or property crime than a white collar criminal. IDK if any of you LEO have ever cruised down the street and saw a guy money laundering or committing credit card fraud...
I don't know if I wrote me thoughts down clearly let me know if I didn't.
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Old 10-31-2011, 8:32 AM
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I won't say that all of any group of people is racist. I will say that justice in this country tends to be skewed towards certain types of people. Race isn't always the catalyst for some of the mistreatment, but does exist as a factor in some cases. I think that the government entities responsible for providing justice for it's citizens need an overhaul. There are too may elitist people working for LEO organizations, not that these people out number Good LEOs, but there are enough of them to deny exposure to the good, very non-racist things that happen regularly.

I placed a call to OPD when two guys were passed out stoned(heroin) in front of my home, blocking my driveway(This was a few years back). The two(white) officers, one born and raised in Oakland, took care of the situation. After the offender's vehicle was towed, I told the officers that I was concerned that they may have tossed their needles in the bushes or something, and they agreed to look on behalf of the children that live on my street. We were successful. There were 0 white families on my street. I doubt race was an issue for those cops, considering their actions were to the benefit of myself, and the other kids/families on my street.

If more stories like these came out into public view, there would be less attention to whether or not "cops are racist". However, when, people like Troy Davis are wrongly executed, and things like this pop up in the media:



I start questioning whether or not the problem is simply race, class, or a mixture of both in varying proportions.


ETA: The above photo contrasting the two sentences doesn't illustrated the treatment of those individuals by LEO's, but rather an overall picture of the shape of "Justice" in our country.
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  #24  
Old 10-31-2011, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ksmash01 View Post
I won't say that all of any group of people is racist. I will say that justice in this country tends to be skewed towards certain types of people. Race isn't always the catalyst for some of the mistreatment, but does exist as a factor in some cases. I think that the government entities responsible for providing justice for it's citizens need an overhaul. There are too may elitist people working for LEO organizations, not that these people out number Good LEOs, but there are enough of them to deny exposure to the good, very non-racist things that happen regularly.

I placed a call to OPD when two guys were passed out stoned(heroin) in front of my home, blocking my driveway(This was a few years back). The two(white) officers, one born and raised in Oakland, took care of the situation. After the offender's vehicle was towed, I told the officers that I was concerned that they may have tossed their needles in the bushes or something, and they agreed to look on behalf of the children that live on my street. We were successful. There were 0 white families on my street. I doubt race was an issue for those cops, considering their actions were to the benefit of myself, and the other kids/families on my street.

If more stories like these came out into public view, there would be less attention to whether or not "cops are racist". However, when, people like Troy Davis are wrongly executed, and things like this pop up in the media:



I start questioning whether or not the problem is simply race, class, or a mixture of both in varying proportions.


ETA: The above photo contrasting the two sentences doesn't illustrated the treatment of those individuals by LEO's, but rather an overall picture of the shape of "Justice" in our country.
Your example comparing corporate fraud to robbery with a simulated weapon is not applicable to the topic. You are comparing a violent crime to a non-violent crime. The amount of the loss doesn't matter because they are completely different crimes.
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Old 10-31-2011, 6:27 PM
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ETA: The above photo contrasting the two sentences doesn't illustrated the treatment of those individuals by LEO's, but rather an overall picture of the shape of "Justice" in our country.
Maybe you could move this ETA to the 1st paragraph in that post where the innuendo is that law enforcement is not doing their job.

One must remember that a law enforcement officer does not, nor can not, sentence a criminal after being found guilty as that is the job of a magistrate. Yet a magistrate is immune, yes...immune, from reproach and law suits when mistakes are made. Some of the most arrogant people I have ever met in my career are attorneys and magistrates.

We had a local judge who, IMO, aided and abetted the murder of a young child by refusing to issue a restraining order to the ex-wife of this nut case. The victim and his mother tried to get the order issued and they had more than enough due cause yet the judge refused to issue it to her while calling her liar in open court. A couple hours after they left the courthouse the suspect murdered the child and then committed suicide. A couple weeks later the judge was "aquitted" after a judicial review. I use the term "aquitted" because I do not recall the legal term it is called.
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Old 10-31-2011, 6:51 PM
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Maybe you could move this ETA to the 1st paragraph in that post where the innuendo is that law enforcement is not doing their job.

One must remember that a law enforcement officer does not, nor can not, sentence a criminal after being found guilty as that is the job of a magistrate. Yet a magistrate is immune, yes...immune, from reproach and law suits when mistakes are made. Some of the most arrogant people I have ever met in my career are attorneys and magistrates.

We had a local judge who, IMO, aided and abetted the murder of a young child by refusing to issue a restraining order to the ex-wife of this nut case. The victim and his mother tried to get the order issued and they had more than enough due cause yet the judge refused to issue it to her while calling her liar in open court. A couple hours after they left the courthouse the suspect murdered the child and then committed suicide. A couple weeks later the judge was "aquitted" after a judicial review. I use the term "aquitted" because I do not recall the legal term it is called.
And If I remember correctly he was then "retired" from the bench by the voters.
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Old 11-01-2011, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack's Smirking Revenge View Post
Your example comparing corporate fraud to robbery with a simulated weapon is not applicable to the topic. You are comparing a violent crime to a non-violent crime. The amount of the loss doesn't matter because they are completely different crimes.
No, that is his point - think it through.


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Old 11-02-2011, 7:07 AM
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And If I remember correctly he was then "retired" from the bench by the voters.
He wasn't "retired" by the voters, he was outed by a majority vote...meaning he was not reelected to his position of Superior Court Judge...IMO as it should have been for his lackluster performance. People are getting tired of all this nonsense that is happening on the benches and in our government and are making an impact. Thankfully!!
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I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.
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Old 11-02-2011, 7:22 AM
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He wasn't "retired" by the voters, he was outed by a majority vote...meaning he was not reelected to his position of Superior Court Judge...IMO as it should have been for his lackluster performance. People are getting tired of all this nonsense that is happening on the benches and in our government and are making an impact. Thankfully!!
Yes, I was just trying to be nice to hide my disdain for the individual. IMO he should have received the same life sentence that he subjected that child to.
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