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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 77 8.20%
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I paid too much for my Membership! 44 4.69%
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  #10961  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:16 PM
Jerry1834 Jerry1834 is offline
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Just going to bring a builders tube in Oct and stuff it full which will fit in the overhead.

Anyone have any they could share and send to me - I'll pay the cost plus a lunch?
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  #10962  
Old 05-20-2019, 1:02 PM
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Quick question/s guys on both the THG and ATHG next week -
  • Which days would we be shooting 50-yards?
  • Which days would we be using one-handed manipulations, ie., using the rear sights to rack the slide, etc?

Based on the course descriptions on the website, I believe that these are both during the THG...

Am asking because I would like to know which Glock to bring for each day/class. It is kind of complicated - one has a rear sight angled back and is not suited for one-handed racking, but then, the one suited for one-handed manipulations is NOT good for long range because of a fat front sight.

If the 50-yards and the one-handed manipulations are just on the THG class, I think I will bring the G19.3 which is suited for both one-handed racking and long range; but because of the short grip, I find a little awkward compared to my G34.3.

I know I can switch sights, etc. to my G34.3... It's just that I am lazy (well, and again have to verify zero)...

Thanks in advanced!!!

_
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  #10963  
Old 05-20-2019, 1:43 PM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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You could be called upon to do 1 handed shooting / malfunctions at any point in time after being taught the FS techniques.

...Any gun will do if you will do.

I would never recommend using stock Glock sights of any kind for helping with malfunctions. I've seen my fair share rip right off the gun. Racking off of rear sights is reasonable convenient, but you can rack off of the ejection port nearly as easy with most guns. If you want pure easy-mode, use a Trijicon RMR.
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  #10964  
Old 05-20-2019, 1:43 PM
carotxn carotxn is offline
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Default Will this work for the Rifle Marksmanship Class?

I set up a Kimber Adirondack in 6.5 Creedmoor mounted with a Swarovski Z6 1.7-10x BRH for brush / mountain forest hunting. It is light weight (> 6lbs with optic mounted) and easy handle and carry all day. For those that have taken the class, is this something that would work well for the Rifle Marksmanship class? Is there any benefit to bringing something more robust or will the Kimber Adirondack in 6.5 work for this class?
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  #10965  
Old 05-20-2019, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
You could be called upon to do 1 handed shooting / malfunctions at any point in time after being taught the FS techniques.

...Any gun will do if you will do.

I would never recommend using stock Glock sights of any kind for helping with malfunctions. I've seen my fair share rip right off the gun. Racking off of rear sights is reasonable convenient, but you can rack off of the ejection port nearly as easy with most guns. If you want pure easy-mode, use a Trijicon RMR.
Understood... I guess it will be the G19.3 all throughout the four days then...

In my 4DDHG last December, I used the same G19.3, albeit with stock sights. I had since upgraded the sights to Trijicon HD XR to allow more precision shooting.

Maybe I will use different pistols and calibers whenever I get the chance to make use of private training...

Thank you for the response.


_
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  #10966  
Old 05-20-2019, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry1834 View Post
Called FS and they don't sell/mail out targets - guess I'll need to buy more in Oct and mail them home....


Can you use those tubes they have for posters architects etc?
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  #10967  
Old 05-20-2019, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carotxn View Post
I set up a Kimber Adirondack in 6.5 Creedmoor mounted with a Swarovski Z6 1.7-10x BRH for brush / mountain forest hunting. It is light weight (> 6lbs with optic mounted) and easy handle and carry all day. For those that have taken the class, is this something that would work well for the Rifle Marksmanship class? Is there any benefit to bringing something more robust or will the Kimber Adirondack in 6.5 work for this class?
That looks like a great setup. Lightweight, accurate w/great BC. The SFP on the scope wouldn't work for me and I am always wanting more magnification. Good choice on reticle. I'm sure you know what works for you. You should be well prepared for the class with that setup.
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  #10968  
Old 05-21-2019, 2:47 AM
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Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
Can you use those tubes they have for posters architects etc?
They would be a better choice - couldn't think what they were called - thats why I used 'builder' tubes.
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  #10969  
Old 05-21-2019, 4:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carotxn View Post
I set up a Kimber Adirondack in 6.5 Creedmoor mounted with a Swarovski Z6 1.7-10x BRH for brush / mountain forest hunting. It is light weight (> 6lbs with optic mounted) and easy handle and carry all day. For those that have taken the class, is this something that would work well for the Rifle Marksmanship class? Is there any benefit to bringing something more robust or will the Kimber Adirondack in 6.5 work for this class?
Perfectly fine rifle for the class, probably better than most rifles setups out there for this class. You will be surprised in seeing some very expensive rifles and guys not being able to hit the target.
Make sure you have a good rest or pack to shoot off of for the class. I used my pack and it worked better than many of the bi-pod set ups due to having the rubber feet and folks not really knowing how to tension their bi-pods.
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  #10970  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:13 AM
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Thanks for all the feedback on setting up a rifle for the Rifle Marksmanship class.
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  #10971  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Am asking because I would like to know which Glock to bring for each day/class. It is kind of complicated - one has a rear sight angled back and is not suited for one-handed racking, but then, the one suited for one-handed manipulations is NOT good for long range because of a fat front sight.

If the 50-yards and the one-handed manipulations are just on the THG class, I think I will bring the G19.3 which is suited for both one-handed racking and long range; but because of the short grip, I find a little awkward compared to my G34.3.
I have slanted back rear sights and have no problem with one-handed racking. There are points you can use to catch the slide, but I think the better way is to just use your thigh. There's enough friction present even without hooking the slide on something. I press down on the rear half of slide which gets some of the ejection port and some of the rear sight. I think this is the superior method as it's universal (perhaps a little painful if you're wearing spandex) and you're not fumbling around looking for something to hook your slide to. I see how it's more comfortable to hook it for training, and it does make some sense if you're training like you'd be fighting, but the majority of people aren't going to be wearing their duty uniform when they really need to do a one-handed rack. It is different from FS teaching, but they had no problem letting me do it my way. With some practice it's just as fast as hooking it, with the advantage you don't have to look down for anything - the thigh is in a pretty big intuitive location.

The adherence to FS taught protocol really relaxed in THG and ATHG.
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  #10972  
Old 05-21-2019, 1:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
... It is different from FS teaching, but they had no problem letting me do it my way. With some practice it's just as fast as hooking it, with the advantage you don't have to look down for anything - the thigh is in a pretty big intuitive location.

The adherence to FS taught protocol really relaxed in THG and ATHG.
FS doesn't teach an official method. They pretty much say 'mind the 4 rules, don't violate them, figure it out' They'll offer lots of suggestions and comments on any method that someone brings up, but they don't actually teach a preferred method.
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  #10973  
Old 05-21-2019, 4:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
I have slanted back rear sights and have no problem with one-handed racking. There are points you can use to catch the slide, but I think the better way is to just use your thigh. There's enough friction present even without hooking the slide on something. I press down on the rear half of slide which gets some of the ejection port and some of the rear sight. I think this is the superior method as it's universal (perhaps a little painful if you're wearing spandex) and you're not fumbling around looking for something to hook your slide to. I see how it's more comfortable to hook it for training, and it does make some sense if you're training like you'd be fighting, but the majority of people aren't going to be wearing their duty uniform when they really need to do a one-handed rack. It is different from FS teaching, but they had no problem letting me do it my way. With some practice it's just as fast as hooking it, with the advantage you don't have to look down for anything - the thigh is in a pretty big intuitive location.

The adherence to FS taught protocol really relaxed in THG and ATHG.

Learned that method many, many years ago in Adv Tact HG/Adv Integrated HG at Frontsight as one suggested method - with no preferred method.
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  #10974  
Old 05-21-2019, 6:34 PM
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For those of you who have taken TactHG/AdvTactHG... how do you recommend storing your flashlight while not in use?
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  #10975  
Old 05-21-2019, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
For those of you who have taken TactHG/AdvTactHG... how do you recommend storing your flashlight while not in use?
I don't think you need any special storage. Anywhere convenient. There's always time to grab it before the exercises that use it. I would strongly suggest a weapon mounted (WML) light if that's an option for you. Allows you to use your usual two hand grip. Even with the WML, I practiced the Harries method just to be familiar if the need arises. A handheld flashlight is needed even with a WML to dress the line.
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  #10976  
Old 05-21-2019, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nszzya View Post
I don't think you need any special storage. Anywhere convenient. There's always time to grab it before the exercises that use it. I would strongly suggest a weapon mounted (WML) light if that's an option for you. Allows you to use your usual two hand grip. Even with the WML, I practiced the Harries method just to be familiar if the need arises. A handheld flashlight is needed even with a WML to dress the line.
Perfect. I've got a small collection of pocket/small handheld flashlights, and a WML w/ compatible holster. I was worried there'd be a time-critical presentation requirement, necessitating a flashlight holster for consistency

On the subject of post-handgun skill builder classes.... what's the typical round count look like for an exercise? That is, how many rounds do the instructors put you through before letting you top off your magazines? I have seven 10-round magazines; I think I may have run all of them dry ONCE.
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  #10977  
Old 05-21-2019, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Perfect. I've got a small collection of pocket/small handheld flashlights, and a WML w/ compatible holster. I was worried there'd be a time-critical presentation requirement, necessitating a flashlight holster for consistency

On the subject of post-handgun skill builder classes.... what's the typical round count look like for an exercise? That is, how many rounds do the instructors put you through before letting you top off your magazines? I have seven 10-round magazines; I think I may have run all of them dry ONCE.
I don't recall for sure, but I think you'll be fine with what you have for TH/ATH. When I took it, I ran four 15-rnd mags on my belt and don't recall having a problem with running dry.
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  #10978  
Old 05-21-2019, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
FS doesn't teach an official method. They pretty much say 'mind the 4 rules, don't violate them, figure it out' They'll offer lots of suggestions and comments on any method that someone brings up, but they don't actually teach a preferred method.
I didnít know they teach that method. We were on line instructed to find something to hook onto. I asked about using the thigh and they said ok. It needs extra attention on the line as itís easier to muzzle a neighbor.

On that subject, I think there is a good way to secure the gun when doing one-handed manipulations (inside joint of bent knee), but I didnít do it as itís also easy to muzzle someone on the side of you.
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  #10979  
Old 05-22-2019, 8:43 AM
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  1. Is there going to be low light/night shoot? Which days will it be? I would assume that it would be suggested to pack a light supper then.
  2. I have an EDC flashlight. Would a WML be required? Or recommended? I would guess that a WML will be required only during the low light, etc. parts of the class.
  3. Where are the ranges located? 1-24? Or 25+...?
  4. I will be staying in one of the hotels nearer the center of town, any suggestions for early breakfast? I will believe that there is an early check-in on the first days of both courses respectively.
  5. Any other thing that I should be considering? Good to know stuffs?

Thanks!!!


_
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  #10980  
Old 05-22-2019, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
  1. Is there going to be low light/night shoot? Which days will it be? I would assume that it would be suggested to pack a light supper then.
  2. I have an EDC flashlight. Would a WML be required? Or recommended? I would guess that a WML will be required only during the low light, etc. parts of the class.
  3. Where are the ranges located? 1-24? Or 25+...?
  4. I will be staying in one of the hotels nearer the center of town, any suggestions for early breakfast? I will believe that there is an early check-in on the first days of both courses respectively.
  5. Any other thing that I should be considering? Good to know stuffs?

Thanks!!!


_
1) Both AHG and ATHG have night shoots on their first respective nights. There isnít a lot of break time from end of day to night shoot, so yea, Iíd plan to bring a light supper.

2) WML is not required, but a small handheld is. They had a few spares to borrow if needed but I wouldnít count on it - better to bring and train on your own anyway. Iím a fan of WMLs and recommend them as they make engagements at night a lot easier, but itís a personal choice. Iíd say if you donít normally run a WML, donít run one special for a night class.

3) I donít remember the range numbers now, but both classes were the ranges past the cold shoot houses.

5) Knee pads are nice so you donít have to be ginger with shooting platform. Gloves are nice for the up/down platforms, but use what youíre used to / comfortable with. Your handheld light should be appropriate for shooting with or itíll be a hindrance. Appropriate size, low or adjustable brightness, no strobe nor clicking through modes - simple momentary/lock on/off is best. If you donít know what you need now, youíll figure it out by end of class. Donít forget clear glasses if you normally shoot with sunglasses - obvious, but an easy thing to overlook packing.
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  #10981  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:06 AM
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Regarding Tac HG and Adv Tac HG --

I'm enrolled in these for next week and am wondering about a very specific aspect of the class. I have DG'd 4DDH with both revolver and semi, so I'm comfortable with both, I just think running revolver is a bit more fun. So, I want to run a revolver in the classes, but I'm concerned about the curriculum. That is, I see a lot of mention of learning how to do Type I, II and III with weak hand, one handed, racking the slide on belt etc.

SO, my question is, if I run revolver, will I just be sitting around with my thumb up my *** while the semi guys are learning these techniques? If so, I think I'll run semi instead. Or maybe, there's a chance I can run both and switch out as appropriate? Any input or insight on this is welcomed and appreciated. Thanks!
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  #10982  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:37 AM
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I’d say bring both. Up to the RM or your ninja abilities to swap in class, though I really don’t think they’d care. There’s not a lot of time dedicated to one-handed malfunctions, just the suite to cover possibilities. If it were me, I’d run the revolver then switch to the semi during those malfunction drills to keep busy.
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  #10983  
Old 05-22-2019, 4:31 PM
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run revolver in one class and the semi in the other.
you don't need to do one handed manipulations in both classes, just do it in one and then you'll be good.

win-win.
switching guns is doable but the Instructors are going to need to inspect the weapon and be there while you swap holsters, etc. It's a pain if you're only doing it for malfunctions. Not really worth it to be honest.
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  #10984  
Old 05-22-2019, 4:37 PM
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Thanks guys, I appreciate the answers!
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  #10985  
Old 05-23-2019, 7:31 AM
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Anyone want to sell and ship a few HG targets to me - I'll buy lunch too! Thanks for reading.
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  #10986  
Old 05-23-2019, 9:02 PM
Kenponographer Kenponographer is offline
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So from discussion on the last 40 pages or so, there seem to be three potential options for upgrading an existing membership through a private party transfer (not buying from FS).

1. Set up an alternate account and have the membership transferred to that one, then have FS admin merge the accounts.
2. Have FS admin cancel your existing membership so a new one can be transferred into your existing account.
3. Gift your existing membership (if allowed) to someone else, then get the new one.

Does anyone have additional comments on these workarounds and have they actually done them? How much of a stink (if any) does FS admin raise about it?
Does anyone know if your class record follows your name in their system, or is it tied to the account you're working through?
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  #10987  
Old 05-25-2019, 3:16 PM
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I'll be there right after Memorial Day for Tactical Awareness, Tactical Handgun, and Advanced Tactical Handgun. Thanks for all the information in this thread. Hope to see some of you there.
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  #10988  
Old 05-26-2019, 8:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
switching guns is doable but the Instructors are going to need to inspect the weapon and be there while you swap holsters, etc. It's a pain if you're only doing it for malfunctions. Not really worth it to be honest.
To be honest, I really don't like running classes with a WML, simply because the holster I have sucks. Yes, I could buy a new and better holster, but it is rare that I shoot with a WML, it doesn't make sense. ... and I still have to find one that is good (I would assume RHT

But based on what you are saying - it is not worth the trouble running day #1 with NO WML, then during the low light/night shoot to attach the WML and switch holster?



Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigBos View Post
I'll be there right after Memorial Day for Tactical Awareness, Tactical Handgun, and Advanced Tactical Handgun. Thanks for all the information in this thread. Hope to see some of you there.
Got your PM. I'll bring those buttons!


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  #10989  
Old 05-27-2019, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry1834 View Post
Just going to bring a builders tube in Oct and stuff it full which will fit in the overhead.

Anyone have any they could share and send to me - I'll pay the cost plus a lunch?
Hey Jerry. I sent you a pm.
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  #10990  
Old 05-28-2019, 1:23 AM
Jerry1834 Jerry1834 is offline
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Roy - replied to your PM....Thanks!
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  #10991  
Old 05-28-2019, 9:28 PM
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The construction on 160 from Pahrump to Tecopa Rd is complete. All barriers as well as the temporary stop light is gone. There is a nice right turn lane and I think a left turn lane coming from LV that have been added.
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  #10992  
Old 05-29-2019, 12:09 PM
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Here at FS. Range #20. Any CGners here?

Bought a few rolls of various targets. Plan to do dry practice with them.


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  #10993  
Old 05-29-2019, 4:12 PM
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Here at FS. Range #20. Any CGners here?
18 :wave:
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  #10994  
Old 05-29-2019, 9:26 PM
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Alright for all you folks thinking of taking marksmanship I have done the harder work for you. As this class is all about hold over here are all the target measurements and yardages. This can be shrunk down and used to help dope while taking the course. Use as you may.

Also saw a trick rifle rest for a back pack from Eleberstock. I will be using this next time. https://eberlestock.com/products/pac...-shooting-rest

Now all you have to do is get the bullets on target.
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  #10995  
Old 05-30-2019, 9:46 AM
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Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Alright for all you folks thinking of taking marksmanship I have done the harder work for you. As this class is all about hold over here are all the target measurements and yardages. This can be shrunk down and used to help dope while taking the course. Use as you may.



Also saw a trick rifle rest for a back pack from Eleberstock. I will be using this next time. https://eberlestock.com/products/pac...-shooting-rest



Now all you have to do is get the bullets on target.


Thank you! The instructors let you drop the pack at distance?


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  #10996  
Old 05-30-2019, 10:58 AM
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At 150 yards they let you drop the pack. I would have the pack sound on one arm and then drop it at first buzzer and then set my rifle down. Just canít put an expensive rifle down in the rocks as I donít run a bi pod.
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Old 06-02-2019, 7:22 AM
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Jedi54 Jedi54 is offline
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Finished up 2 days of Adv Tactical yesterday.
On ranges 14&15.

Good times as always.
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  #10998  
Old 06-02-2019, 12:52 PM
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rodralig rodralig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
Finished up 2 days of Adv Tactical yesterday.
On ranges 14&15.

Good times as always.
I just got home - opted to depart back to LA, Sunday morning...

I have taken LOTS of notes and take-aways for training, and as you have said, these classes were awesome!!! I took BOTH THG and ATHG, ranges #20 and #16, respectively.

That be said - I would think my ATHG was more awesome than yours! Had TWO (2) Combat Masters in my class (and in MY group)!!! It was an educational experience seeing them shoot, how they approach the scenarios; as well, getting to talk to them on their road to HGCM (and both of them PASSED it several times over).

One of them actually invited me to attend the Prep Course in June. He thinks that I have what it takes to go for it... I appreciated his kind words; but, I don't think I am ready. For one, my 50-yard shots (not kneeling, not prone, etc.) is just 50% (I guess more practice on the 'ragged hole' drill).

I am thinking that my NEXT class should be the 2-day Skill Builder - I should be able to prove to myself that my "Snowman" DG on the first try is NOT a fluke, and I can do it on demand.


Anyways, the tactical insights/information I learned in the past four (4) days, is way better than any other class I have taken to date!!! Period!!! If anyone were to say that FS is not good enough and/or they are good enough of a shooter that there is nothing FS can teach them - I would invite them to get a DG, attend both THG and ATHG and see how they perform in the different scenarios (in terms of both speed, accuracy and tactical movements).

Oh, btw, it be said - whenever I attend tactical classes here in SoCal, I find that the gun handling skills of most of my classmates are below par as what is to be expected in higher level courses (I was in one "advanced" class and lots of shooters can't even clear a Type 3 on demand). Here at FS, the skill level is different. I guess that can be attributed to the FS' vetting process - the structured curriculum and the Skills Test!

Ah, one more thing - the classmates were way more FUN! In the 4DDHG, the class was boring quiet up until completion of the Skills Test. In the tactical classes, especially the ATHG - it was way more social!


_

Last edited by rodralig; 06-02-2019 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 06-02-2019, 4:47 PM
LV_G22 LV_G22 is offline
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Also just finished Adv Tact HG on Range #16. Great class!!

I would highly recommend the class. Definitely gets you out of the square range mentality and into using your BRAIN first, then your gun (maybe).
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Old 06-02-2019, 7:41 PM
Sohumvet Sohumvet is offline
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I also just finished the Advanced Tactical Handgun class. I was on ranges 14 and 15. Had a blast and learned a lot. Great group of instructors and classmates.
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