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  #1  
Old 12-17-2014, 4:05 PM
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Default "Breath easy" "Don't break the law" T-shirts

Saw this... Isn't America wonderful..

http://www.westernjournalism.com/loo...ggUibq3Ao54.97
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2014, 4:10 PM
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Works for a lot of people
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2014, 4:18 PM
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Three city council members want the officer to stop selling the shirts because they are too "divisive"
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/l...ivisive-shirts
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2014, 4:21 PM
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Sounds legit to me.
I'm sure he'll be arrested for a hate crime of some kind.
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  #5  
Old 12-17-2014, 11:37 PM
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Just ordered 2 shirts.

http://www.southbenduniform.com/prod...he-easy-tshirt
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2014, 1:13 AM
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Gotta buy a couple of those.
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2014, 7:30 AM
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Nice! Grabbed 3.

I wonder if I'll they'll let me in @ Magic Mountain for this....
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2014, 9:37 AM
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Its a message that some parents don't seem to teach their children.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2014, 12:47 PM
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Great Idea,

I hope the officer makes a bundle peddling the truth in his entrepeneurial side business.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2014, 3:59 PM
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I thought the guy had a heart attack? That's why he couldn't breath?
Get a shirt that says don't have a heart attack while resisting arrest?.
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2014, 8:53 PM
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Know what I really find appalling?*White person at a demo this past week told my partner she hopes he gets skin cancer and dies..because he's white.

Oh also my parents should kill themselves. And they hope my wife (maybe they met her once!) is raped, that she should kill herself and my kids, that my kids die before they see how bad I am, etc. *And I'm a white honky pig (also from a white person). Along with the regular "I hope you get mudered in front of your family" stuff. And that they hoped the female cop nearby was raped and butchered.

All from "professionals" of various professions, jobs, universities, etc. Yet some cop makes a satirical T-shirt about not breaking the law and all of a sudden cops are again responsible for the downfall of modern civilization.
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2014, 9:53 PM
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Anyone with a modicum of common sense can look at this shirt and (hopefully) come to the conclusion that "actions have consequence." Want to make a decision to resist a lawful arrest? Then be prepared to accept the consequence of an appropriate level of force utilized to overcome that resistance. Don't want to your overweight, fat azz taken down to the ground? Submit to the lawful arrest and fight your battle in court at a later date.

Common sense 101 actually.
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2014, 1:31 PM
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Amazing how so many ignore the simple fact that if you are yelling "I CAN'T BREATHE". You can in fact breathe, or you couldn't possibly yell about not breathing.

Kewl shirts with a very simple message that in no way condones bad behaviour on the part of LE.
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2014, 3:31 PM
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And all the thousands of "I can't breathe" and "hands up don't shoot" t shirt helps police public relations how? Especially since both those statements have been proven to be factually incorrect.
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2014, 3:55 PM
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Bottom line is hater's gonna hate..

If this T shirt causes you to hate on the cops you have much bigger issues.

I hope all my fellow active and retired LEO brothers and sisters have a happy and safe holiday.

Be safe out there and watch your 6!!!
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2014, 4:05 PM
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Nice. Going to buy one right now!
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2014, 5:14 PM
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As cops, when someone is screaming at you, or the situation is quickly getting out of control, you can do two things:

1. Scream back and try to raise your volume louder than the other guy

2. Be calm, and take care of business, weather it's calmly talking back, affecting an arrest, or simply walking away.

I've found number one generally ineffective, and just don't use it.

Number two, however, I find tends to make people think "wow, that cop didn't fall for it. He's pretty squared away."

Based on this thread, I'm going to keep my opinions to myself about the shirts. But I think you get the idea.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2014, 6:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunlawyer View Post
^^This.

I am a strong conservative libertarian and a major fan and supporter of good LEOs. I am also a major fan of freedom of speech. However, just because someone can say something doesnt mean they should.

Ferguson GJ decided correctly IMHO, Garner GJ NOT even close. There is video of the entire incident so we can all easily make our own legal conclusions. If LEOs can use their position and the color of law and state to faceplant ones head and headlock someone killing them for selling cigarettes while not paying taxes then not release there grip somewhat when he says I cant breath and good LEO think this is ok- this country is wayyyyyyyy farther gone than even I suspected.
As to this.

If someone says they can't breathe - they can ...

I feel the video showed officers struggling with a very large man, and presumably had just cause, at least in their estimation at the time.

I would be curious to see how things went down before they tried to take him into custody as selling cigarettes is seemingly a pretty minor offence, but resisting is less so.
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2014, 6:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbackouris View Post
As cops, when someone is screaming at you, or the situation is quickly getting out of control, you can do two things:

1. Scream back and try to raise your volume louder than the other guy

2. Be calm, and take care of business, weather it's calmly talking back, affecting an arrest, or simply walking away.

I've found number one generally ineffective, and just don't use it.

Number two, however, I find tends to make people think "wow, that cop didn't fall for it. He's pretty squared away."

Based on this thread, I'm going to keep my opinions to myself about the shirts. But I think you get the idea.
Class act here.

This, is what I would expect to hear from an as you say, "squared away" LEO.

Props sir.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2014, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloChicken View Post
As to this.

If someone says they can't breathe - they can ...

I feel the video showed officers struggling with a very large man, and presumably had just cause, at least in their estimation at the time.

I would be curious to see how things went down before they tried to take him into custody as selling cigarettes is seemingly a pretty minor offence, but resisting is less so.
Agreed for the most part. Except just because someone can voice "I cant breath" concerns doesnt mean they are getting enough oxygen for their body's systems. I anticipate the civil settlement to come will be confidential and in the millions.
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  #21  
Old 12-20-2014, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
No he didn't, but that was because of the choices that Mr. Garner made that day.
However, the case was presented to the Grand Jury and they had access to more info than we do, so due process was served.
I agree that there was due process however the GJ process is not public generally and not in this case so the alternative argument is also plausible depending on what was presented.
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  #22  
Old 12-20-2014, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunlawyer View Post
Agreed for the most part. Except just because someone can voice "I cant breath" concerns doesnt mean they are getting enough oxygen for their body's systems. I anticipate the civil settlement to come will be confidential and in the millions.
This may be,
But again, there are many overt mitigating factors here.
He was ostensibly (per report) committing a crime.
He resisted (as seen on the video).
He had many comorbidities that contributed to his death - the increased physiological stressors of decreased oxygen due to the takedown techniques and his efforts to resist were certainly major factors.
He had an extensive arrest record with some reported 30+ arrests.

Not exactly Mr. Sunshine, was he?

If the settlement is done in confidence, it will be to reduce any more bad public relations coverage.
Which is the root to my argument against LEOs running around either endorsing these shirts, or wearing them.

No matter if I agree entirely with the shirt. Which I do.

Kind of like the strength of character it takes when making contact with a known dirtbag and still keeping things respectful - even when they don't.
The public (and sometimes cops) often forget that aspect of police work.

End of it all, much respect guys! It is a tough job, and I acknowledge your efforts.
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To me, it was a fist-fight, except that I did not counter-attack.
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  #23  
Old 12-20-2014, 7:54 PM
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im in! take my moniessss!!
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  #24  
Old 12-20-2014, 8:24 PM
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Okay, sleeper hold if you prefer.
My point was, officers are trained that way - and rightfully so. It is vital a officer can not only protect themselves, but also to be able to effectively control the situation.
As far as the officer's efforts, I don't see anything wrong with what he was doing - further that is not my call, nor yours. But the people that are charged with making that decision felt he was within his scope in the efforts used. Further it was on tape, so kind of hard to refute.
As far as having reasonable suspicion to actually be affecting that arrest, that would be up to the courts to decide.
I am good with that - and again, that is not for me, nor you, to decide.

The media in large part, and the protesters aren't interested in that though. They just want to beat up on the cops. I disagree with this and the mob mentality is a large problem these days. See Ferguson, the Carson riots (of which I worked), and now this BS going on in NY and that mall protest today.

But to get back on point, the shirts exacerbate that problem. No matter if the general public is wearing the "I can't breathe" or "hands up, don't shoot" shirts - you can't do much about that.
But then again, you don't have to stoop to that level by wearing shirts that convey the attitude that infer you may just make it so someone can't breathe if they commit a crime. I just looks bad to all who see it.

As for my comments prior, I don't feel I was being condescending, and that wasn't my intent.
I do feel you escalated it to become less than respectful of the conversation and I didn't do that to you. So what gives with that? Is that your policing style too?
Again, I like to consider the LEOs I have worked with over the years to be better that with the rarest of exceptions.

No need to make yourself seem less than that to the public. They already generate enough bad opinions (largely unwarranted) on their own.
So now we have to define what "sleeper hold" is. I know think it's just semantics but it makes a hell of a difference. Had the NYPD brass not state in public immediately after the incident that the officer appeared to have used a "chokehold" much of the backlash could have been abated. And i'm not implying police brass should cover up for officers, but because the officer in fact did not place use a chokehold and was publicly and prematurely thrown under the bus without a proper investigation.

Wasn't my intention to "escalate" things but I also believe in being honest with people and reciprocating their actions. And yes that is my policing style. So if someone is taking a pretentious school teacher tone with me with lines like "now you're putting it together", i'll respond accordingly. Maybe you didn't intend to sound like that but that's how you came across.

In your words regarding the general public wearing shirts "you can't do much about that". You're right. Any attempt at the hackneyed "winning hearts and minds" is a fruitless prospect for law enforcement, and a lot of that is out of our control. That's my personal opinion. The damage done by the public side has been so disproportionate compared to this one t shirt that this would just be a drop in the bucket and far from "exacerbating". Do i think the shirts are professional? No, i don't and therefore i wouldn't buy it. Doesn't mean I don't share the sentiment expressed though. And last time i checked this forum is one of the few places i can still express my opinion without having to explain it to internal affairs afterwards.
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  #25  
Old 12-20-2014, 9:28 PM
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Gotch'a man,

Really didn't mean to mischaracterize the statement. Just wrote it while watching the Charger game - a bit distracted I guess.

Really, I agree wholeheartedly with the statement on the shirt, but don't think it will help things to wear them. Maybe at home or in company that is like-minded. Unfortunately haters will see these things and run with it and the end sum will just be more BS.

No matter how fruitless staying the path seems at times it is the right way and really what differentiates things.

At any rate,
Stay safe, and happy holidays !!!
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  #26  
Old 12-20-2014, 9:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SloChicken View Post
Gotch'a man,

Really didn't mean to mischaracterize the statement. Just wrote it while watching the Charger game - a bit distracted I guess.

Really, I agree wholeheartedly with the statement on the shirt, but don't think it will help things to wear them. Maybe at home or in company that is like-minded. Unfortunately haters will see these things and run with it and the end sum will just be more BS.

No matter how fruitless staying the path seems at times it is the right way and really what differentiates things.

At any rate,
Stay safe, and happy holidays !!!
Thanks
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  #27  
Old 12-21-2014, 11:36 AM
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Please report any anti leo comments, do not become involved in a discussion. 63 posts deleted and one banned.
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  #28  
Old 12-21-2014, 2:56 PM
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More items added.
http://www.southbenduniform.com/breathe-easy
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  #29  
Old 12-21-2014, 3:19 PM
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I've been a LE officer almost my entire adult life. I understand the message the shirts send, but I would never wear one. In my area, wearing one would cause a confrontation that might become physical. Want to guess who would end up loosing (career and maybe more)?

Its no secret that certain segments of the population have declared war on LE. Three of our brothers have been murdered in the last two days. I see no reason to identify myself as LE off duty.

Stay safe.
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  #30  
Old 12-21-2014, 7:04 PM
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I see this shirt as a bad sign... when professional officers are so fed up with being demonized and pilloried for doing their job that they think that this is a good idea, a breaking point can't be too far away.

I would not wear one; not because I don't agree with the sentiment (I do), but don't see it as professional and don't care to identify myself as a target.
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Old 12-23-2014, 8:26 AM
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My question is why was he being arrested at all? Why was giving him a ticket not enough? I haven't checked but is selling untaxed cigarettes merit an arrest?
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Old 12-23-2014, 2:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogarcia_02 View Post
My question is why was he being arrested at all? Why was giving him a ticket not enough? I haven't checked but is selling untaxed cigarettes merit an arrest?



It's a misdemeanor in NY and he was already out on $1000 bail for the same offense.
The fact that he was out on bail would seem to indicate that it was not a cite and release situation.

What I find interesting is that all this "why didn't they just give him a ticket crowd" seems to think that he would cooperate with getting a ticket. Based on Mr. Garners actions, I doubt that he would have gone along with that. Also a ticket is not the appropriate action for someone who is a repeat offender who's actions are likely to continue on a bookable offense.
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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 12-23-2014 at 4:18 PM..
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Old 12-23-2014, 5:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogarcia_02 View Post
My question is why was he being arrested at all? Why was giving him a ticket not enough? I haven't checked but is selling untaxed cigarettes merit an arrest?
The offense he was being detained/arrested for is 100% irrelevant.
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