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  #41  
Old 12-25-2010, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by WFAInc View Post
No form. Nothing official, just red flag signs like if a person purchases 3 or more of a single type rifle i.e. ar type, to call it in.


And, what if you decide to not call it in?
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  #42  
Old 12-25-2010, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WFAInc View Post
Looks like they are going to want to enforce multiple long gun purchases.
In what respect? Adding a long gun to the DROS at or near the end of a 10 day wait? Reporting of purchasing more than one gun within 5 days?

I wasn't aware of anything special related to multiple long gun sales. The issue of adding a long gun to an existing DROS has been quite the topic of discussion with disagreements between established and respected Calguns-friendly FFLs, almost as bad as mentioning "Downwind turn" on a general aviation forum
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #43  
Old 12-25-2010, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by nick View Post
Or they stole those guns from someone who bought it at this store initially, or from someone who bought it from someone who bought it at this gun store, and so on.
That is the result of the 4473 system.
Gun is recovered, first step is to find out what dealer it was shipped to.
Unless it's a handgun, every future transfer requires a phone call or visit to the next owner in line.
I buy a new gun from WFA, then I sell it to a friend through Riflegear, then he sells it to someone else through Turner's, then he sells it to someone else through somewhere else. That buyer then gifts it to his grandson, who then sells it to someone else, etc..... Eventually it is stolen and turns up in Mexico.
ATF/DOJ contact WFA and get my information. They then contact me.
I waive my 5A rights and tell them who I sold it to and where. They then contact him, and so on.
All it takes is one private citizen to assert their 5A rights or claim the gun was stolen and they are either forced to get a warrant, or the trail goes cold.

Handguns make it a little easier (in states that require registration) because they can at least go directly to the last registered owner, but again, if he asserts his 5A rights or claims the gun was stolen, the trail goes dead and they don't likely have enough evidence to pin down the exporter.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #44  
Old 12-25-2010, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kermit315 View Post
And, what if you decide to not call it in?
My thoughts exactly.
Underground legislation.
I haven't seen anything in the PC or USC that says "The law is anything a BATFE/DOJ agent says it is."
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #45  
Old 12-25-2010, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
In what respect? Adding a long gun to the DROS at or near the end of a 10 day wait? Reporting of purchasing more than one gun within 5 days?

I wasn't aware of anything special related to multiple long gun sales. The issue of adding a long gun to an existing DROS has been quite the topic of discussion with disagreements between established and respected Calguns-friendly FFLs, almost as bad as mentioning "Downwind turn" on a general aviation forum
sounds like they are trying to force this on them, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...light=multiple
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  #46  
Old 12-25-2010, 5:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
In what respect? Adding a long gun to the DROS at or near the end of a 10 day wait? Reporting of purchasing more than one gun within 5 days?

I wasn't aware of anything special related to multiple long gun sales. The issue of adding a long gun to an existing DROS has been quite the topic of discussion with disagreements between established and respected Calguns-friendly FFLs, almost as bad as mentioning "Downwind turn" on a general aviation forum
Reporting multiple long gun sales to an individual which have all of the following attributes: 1) Semi-automatic. 2) Caliber of .22 or larger. 3) The ability to accept a detachable magazine.

Multiple handgun purchases are reported on a form which is faxed to both ATF and DOJ...this "new" requirement is only for the "border States" TX,NM,AZ,CA.

Read more here:

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...n-webcast.html
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  #47  
Old 12-25-2010, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike's Custom View Post
It doesn't really matter if some of their firearms were found in MEXICO as long as they did their paperwork correctly and followed all regulations. After the firearm is sold the FFL has no control where it goes. The alternative is to stop selling to anyone that they think is of Mexican decent.
That doesn't make sense either. Realize that the firearms in question were sold over many decades. The real alternative would be to violate our Second Amendment rights. Something that the apologists for criminals in Mexico are continually attempting to do.
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  #48  
Old 12-26-2010, 8:41 PM
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So, this is happening for one year only?
That might effect sales...
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  #49  
Old 12-27-2010, 11:20 AM
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That doesn't make sense either. Realize that the firearms in question were sold over many decades. The real alternative would be to violate our Second Amendment rights. Something that the apologists for criminals in Mexico are continually attempting to do.
Yes it does make sense. It keeps the FFL out of the trouble or at least it is more defensible. The FFL made a attempt to keep firearms out of people hands most likely to commit a crime. Not selling to people with gang tattoos would mean the FFL is trying to not put guns into gang members hands. Since this is a FFL forum it is more about protecting yourself as a FFL.

I have refused to sell a firearm at a gun show to a black woman who had a under aged (teenager) with her picking out the handgun while wearing a Raiders jacket and gang colors. I had to ask the kid to NOT handle the handguns, which was clearly posted on my tables, after I heard him say "I like teh feel of this one". They left my tables but came back 30 minutes later and the mother wanted to buy the handgun her son wanted. I had to tell her no and why and that if she had come by herself I would have been happy to sell her the firearm. It seemed to me and other FFLs at the show that the kid was the one wanting the gun.
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  #50  
Old 12-31-2010, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
My thoughts exactly.
Underground legislation.
I haven't seen anything in the PC or USC that says "The law is anything a BATFE/DOJ agent says it is."
That's why I don't do any changes they ask until I get it in writing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmkinsd View Post
Reporting multiple long gun sales to an individual which have all of the following attributes: 1) Semi-automatic. 2) Caliber of .22 or larger. 3) The ability to accept a detachable magazine.

Multiple handgun purchases are reported on a form which is faxed to both ATF and DOJ...this "new" requirement is only for the "border States" TX,NM,AZ,CA.

Read more here:

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...n-webcast.html
We've always done multiple handgun sales. It's multiple longun sales that they want reprted. I think there is a story on it in NSSF's site.
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  #51  
Old 12-31-2010, 10:57 AM
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jtmkinsd. Sorry, I re-read your comment. Yup what you said.
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  #52  
Old 12-31-2010, 11:07 AM
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Ok, believe it or not, they are still here.When I first posted it was ATF's field agents that were here because of the story in the Washington Post. The 22nd and 23rd Doj was here along with ATF's peolple. ATF returned the 28th-30th. Done with ATF everything came out great. DOJ returns the 4th of January to finish up their part. Crazy crazy 2010 for us. One for the books.
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  #53  
Old 12-31-2010, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WFAInc View Post
Ok, believe it or not, they are still here.When I first posted it was ATF's field agents that were here because of the story in the Washington Post. The 22nd and 23rd Doj was here along with ATF's peolple. ATF returned the 28th-30th. Done with ATF everything came out great. DOJ returns the 4th of January to finish up their part. Crazy crazy 2010 for us. One for the books.
lol...talk about a "fine toothed comb"! It's ridiculous for them to descend on you like that because some lefty scum writes a hit piece.
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Welcome to failtown, population = you.
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  #54  
Old 12-31-2010, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jtmkinsd View Post
lol...talk about a "fine toothed comb"! It's ridiculous for them to descend on you like that because some lefty scum writes a hit piece.
Lefty scum is now #6 on the first page of a Yahoo search for "Journalistic hack."

Unfortunately, Google either hasn't picked up on it, or has been tweaked to ignore it. Interesting that Google has a bunch of links to threads on CGN and Yahoo doesn't.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #55  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:17 PM
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lol...talk about a "fine toothed comb"! It's ridiculous for them to descend on you like that because some lefty scum writes a hit piece.
Yeah I know but it doesn't bother me because I know they're not gonna find anything. We are as straight as an arrow, we have have nothing to hide, heck I think we're gonna upgrade our license to manufacture.
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  #56  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by WFAInc View Post
Yeah I know but it doesn't bother me because I know they're not gonna find anything. We are as straight as an arrow, we have have nothing to hide, heck I think we're gonna upgrade our license to manufacture.
SWEET

You should start doing off-roster conversions

Oh...and send that HACK writer a coupon for 10% off a gun purchase
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Originally Posted by orangeglo View Post
Welcome to failtown, population = you.
”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”
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”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”
~George Washington
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  #57  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jtmkinsd View Post
SWEET

You should start doing off-roster conversions

Oh...and send that HACK writer a coupon for 10% off a gun purchase
Lol I should.
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