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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

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  #1  
Old 02-08-2013, 3:04 PM
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Default VIDEO: My Thumb Doesn't Reach the Mag Release!

I recorded the following video in response to another forum's member's inquiry as to how to hit the mag release if your thumb doesn't reach the mag release.

Here's one way of doing it:



Thanks for watching!
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Old 02-08-2013, 8:21 PM
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The potential problem with this technique is the need to reacquire the original grip once you are done with the reload as the grip after the reload will not be the same as the original grip.
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Old 02-09-2013, 2:17 PM
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Like anything else it's a training issue and can be overcome with lots of repetitions. The original grip can be reestablished with practice. Thanks for your comment.

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The potential problem with this technique is the need to reacquire the original grip once you are done with the reload as the grip after the reload will not be the same as the original grip.
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Old 02-08-2013, 9:16 PM
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Did you used to work for American Defense Enterprises?
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Old 02-09-2013, 2:19 PM
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I left a while ago (approx. 4 years ago). Thanks for watching.

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Did you used to work for American Defense Enterprises?
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Old 02-09-2013, 2:55 PM
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Another way to keep your grip is to install the magazine release on the same side as your trigger finger. Dave Harrington had that on his Glock 17. Very effective once you get the repetitions in. I used to do that on my H&K USP 45 with the ambidextrous magazine release.
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Old 02-09-2013, 3:20 PM
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Good idea. I personally don't like to be at a disadvantage if I have to use another handgun or someone else's handgun...hence a system that always works. One of the reasons I don't like B.A.D. Levers on rifles (nothing against this ingenious device...just don't like it for reasons mentioned above). Thank you for your comment!


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Another way to keep your grip is to install the magazine release on the same side as your trigger finger. Dave Harrington had that on his Glock 17. Very effective once you get the repetitions in. I used to do that on my H&K USP 45 with the ambidextrous magazine release.
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Old 02-09-2013, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PhoenixTacticalSolutions View Post

...hence a system that always works.
In practice, no system always works just like there's no one size fits all and no one way. For pistol manipulation you operate them differently based on say striker-fired, decocker or single-action safety. Kind of like how different shooters send the slide home based on their pistol type/size and practice: overhand rack, pinch rack, left thumb (right-handed shooter) and right thumb (right-handed shooter).
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Old 02-10-2013, 2:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
Another way to keep your grip is to install the magazine release on the same side as your trigger finger. Dave Harrington had that on his Glock 17.
Interesting. Manipulating the mag release with the dominant hand would be awkward though, no?

I picked up Dave Spaulding's technique but find that my hands don't reset to the starting grip and I have to re-grip one more time to get original grip back which times some time.

P.S. The new PPQ M2 has the traditional mag release button.

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Old 02-10-2013, 2:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gesundheit View Post
Interesting. Manipulating the mag release with the dominant hand would be awkward though, no?

I picked up Dave Spaulding's technique but find that my hands don't reset to the starting grip and I have to re-grip one more time to get original grip back which times some time.

P.S. The new PPQ M2 has the traditional mag release button.

A lot of methods seem awkward at the beginning until you get the reps in. Using the trigger finger to release the magazine on the same side is used by some (Dave Harrington on his G17 & G19) as well as like me on H&K USP.

On my ARs and 1911s I have ambidextrous safety. On my ARs, I now set the weapon on safe using my trigger finger and go off safe using the right thumb (I'm right-handed).

I don't like to break my grip either and that's why I have an extended mag release. The problem with some extended controls is that people don't give them enough reps or mechanically they're in their way or just going with the old familiar.

Quote:
The PPQ M1 had European-style magazine release paddles near the trigger guard, whereas the M2 meets the demand the company had been seeing in the American marketplace for the more traditional, changeable, ambidextrous push-button design at the front of the grip.
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Last edited by ramzar; 02-10-2013 at 5:51 PM..
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2013, 4:09 PM
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You look like Cheech.
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Old 02-09-2013, 4:17 PM
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Someone else mentioned that on another forum. Cheech is MUCH better looking

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You look like Cheech.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:00 PM
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The best thing to do is find a handgun that fits your hand. I am not a fan of extended controls on handguns for defensive use. I've seen too many issues with such controls in class. Filing the mag release is a good start.

Even if you have extended controls on your handgun, it's best to be able to effectively operate same without such controls. You may have to use someone else's or a handgun without extended controls.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:31 PM
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The problems with extended controls are multi-fold. Firstly, shooters don't give it a proper trial run with associated adjustments. For instance, the extended slide release of the G34 on a G17. The release stands out and as a right-handed shooter if your right thumb is too close to the slide you won't get the slide lock after emptying your magazine. However, with practice of laying your right thumb on top of the left thumb you won't have this issue. All about practice and repetitions. Secondly, there are extended controls that have solved some of the issues. For instance, the Larry Vickers extended slide and magazine releases for Glocks. The extended slide and mag releases do not jut out like the ones from the G34.
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Old 02-10-2013, 1:48 PM
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By the way, here's the Walther PPQ which although not CA-approved (other than single shot exemption) it has a lot going for it including factory extended controls and adjustable backstraps. Larry Vickers also thinks very highly of it and highlights the pros and cons.




TECHNICAL SPECS
  • Model: PPQâ„¢ 9 mm Black Finish
  • Caliber: 9 mm
  • Action: Striker-Fire
  • Barrel Length: 4" / 102 mm
  • Capacity: 15 Rounds
  • Overall Length: 7.1" / 180 mm
  • Height: 5.3" / 135 mm
  • Width: 1.3" / 33 mm
  • Sight Radius: 6.1" / 156 mm
  • Weight (no/mag): 24.5 oz. / 695 g

FEATURES
  • QDT- Quick Defense Trigger
  • Short, Audible Reset
  • 100% Pre-Cocked Striker
  • Smooth Action and Short Trigger Reset
  • New, Cross-Directional Textured Tactical Gripâ„¢
  • Front and Rear Slide Serrations
  • Extended, Ambidextrous Slide Stop
  • Ambidextrous Mag Release
  • Small & Large Backstraps Included
  • Picatinny-Style Accessory Rail
  • 17-Round Optional Magazine Available
  • Adjustable Rear and Front Sights
  • Loaded Chamber Indicator
  • Firing Pin Block
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Old 02-11-2013, 5:39 AM
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I suppose this isnt even an issue for those of us who shoot competition. Its what is necessary and what PTS showed is exactly how the majority would do a mag change. Nothing wrong with breaking your grip and none of us have an issue doing it that way. I suppose the idea of "breaking your grip" can be obsessed causing another method to be born but why?

We have a GM at our match who uses his support hand index finger to mag release and also uses support hand index finger over the trigger guard while shooting. It doesnt matter because obviously he can shoot.


Just shoot!

FYI I would never use my trigger finger for anything other then the trigger. To me its a safety concern more then anything else. Just like those POS serpa holsters that prep your trigger finger while drawing.

Last edited by Brian1979; 02-11-2013 at 5:45 AM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 9:39 AM
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Thanks for your comment Brian!

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Originally Posted by Brian1979 View Post
I suppose this isnt even an issue for those of us who shoot competition. Its what is necessary and what PTS showed is exactly how the majority would do a mag change. Nothing wrong with breaking your grip and none of us have an issue doing it that way. I suppose the idea of "breaking your grip" can be obsessed causing another method to be born but why?

We have a GM at our match who uses his support hand index finger to mag release and also uses support hand index finger over the trigger guard while shooting. It doesnt matter because obviously he can shoot.


Just shoot!

FYI I would never use my trigger finger for anything other then the trigger. To me its a safety concern more then anything else. Just like those POS serpa holsters that prep your trigger finger while drawing.
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Old 02-11-2013, 7:12 AM
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Thanks Ramzar. I will have to not miss Dave Harrington's class next time he is in town.

Brian, I guess I will try to dry practice this a little more to see if it improves my grip re-acquisition. At the moment it is very irritating not having the correct grip at first.
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Old 02-11-2013, 9:54 AM
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Right after you eject the spent mag, quickly readjust your grip as you're reaching for the fresh mag. This gives you a little more time to obtain a true grip than adjusting once the mag is seated (or while you are inserting fresh mag).

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Originally Posted by gesundheit View Post
Thanks Ramzar. I will have to not miss Dave Harrington's class next time he is in town.

Brian, I guess I will try to dry practice this a little more to see if it improves my grip re-acquisition. At the moment it is very irritating not having the correct grip at first.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:55 AM
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Glock 21sf lots mag changes. Break my grip just fine and reaqquire it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmw3TAfTNBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxqj43fM_ig







If breaking grip is and issue for you and you cant acquire it again then more practice is needed. Its always going to be about grabing you gun from holster or night stand and instantly making a perfect grip. You arent going to have time assesing these details when the time comes. Perhaps it's the gun but unless you have little hands and its a fat g21 then I don't see how this should matter.

I prefer changing my grip a little to eject mags. The competition guys have huge buttons extended toward thumb as to not break grip. It's real funny to watch them accidentally eject a mag during course of fire. Not so funny on a SD gun.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:05 PM
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Well said and nice shooting. An analogy would be that of stance...a perfect stance is great but when you're moving or startled you have to take the stance that the moment gives you. Nothing is perfect...

I've seen mag dumps while shooting with extended mag releases as well as mag dumps coming out of holsters. Sometimes it's a gear (holster) issue. Even with lots of training to get used to extended mag releases, the possibility of an inadvertent mag dump is daunting. If you run an extended mag release, make sure you rest your gun on its RHS on your night stand (even with stock mag releases).

I think most everyone does a bit of adjusting to eject magazines...in the heat of the moment the adjustment is sometimes not noticed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian1979 View Post
Glock 21sf lots mag changes. Break my grip just fine and reaqquire it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmw3TAfTNBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxqj43fM_ig







If breaking grip is and issue for you and you cant acquire it again then more practice is needed. Its always going to be about grabing you gun from holster or night stand and instantly making a perfect grip. You arent going to have time assesing these details when the time comes. Perhaps it's the gun but unless you have little hands and its a fat g21 then I don't see how this should matter.

I prefer changing my grip a little to eject mags. The competition guys have huge buttons extended toward thumb as to not break grip. It's real funny to watch them accidentally eject a mag during course of fire. Not so funny on a SD gun.
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Last edited by PhoenixTacticalSolutions; 02-11-2013 at 4:00 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:36 AM
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I think most people do shift their gun to hit the mag release. You can look at videos of Rob Leatham, Todd Jarrett, Travis Tomasie, and the list goes on, they all break their grip to hit the mag release.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:06 PM
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Exactly. Thanks for your comment.

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I think most people do shift their gun to hit the mag release. You can look at videos of Rob Leatham, Todd Jarrett, Travis Tomasie, and the list goes on, they all break their grip to hit the mag release.
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Old 02-11-2013, 1:17 PM
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With an HK I do agree something out of the ordinary is needed. I have a usp45 compact and took it off my CCW for a few reasons but I did use both my thumb and index finger to press the mag release down. If it works for you then fine no matter what method it is. It just matters that you can keep things straight in the moment and that comes from practice.

Last edited by Brian1979; 02-12-2013 at 5:07 AM..
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