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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#123
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I'd consider our state representatives somewhere between "nuisance" and "enemy of the constitution, domestic," and leaning closer to the latter than the former.
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"I'm so hard, b****, I carry TWO in the chamber!" "Keeping people from being free is big business." -Bob Dylan "There will be no horse-trading in the stable of civil rights. Either the Constitution means what it says, or it doesn't." -Brandon "Most Rights that are accused of being 'created from whole cloth' exist because in fact the Bill of Rights is not limiting. Lack of liberty is statist thuggery. If you don't like sodomy or abortion, don't do it." -Bill Wiese |
#125
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"Smithing” said mags = “manufacturing” in the eyes of the CA DOJ , thus still illegal by CA PC 12079
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Hauoli Makahiki Hou ------- Last edited by SantaCabinetguy; 12-03-2011 at 2:10 PM.. |
#126
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Is that the legal definition of manufacturing? Why would they use that landuage when "modify" is more appropriate?
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#127
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Beginning of the process: no >10rd mags. End of process: you have >10rd mags. Illegal.
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#128
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Last edited by repubconserv; 12-03-2011 at 2:27 PM.. |
#130
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Yes. But then, future legislative action could also be taken to ban Clamato, shaving, and carpet cleaners. (Actually, I sort of wouldn't be against a ban on shaving. Or Clamato.) Gene's been VERY clear on the point that his package will simply be a legal way to import the magazines for the first time. If you take them back out of state again, you will not be able to bring them back in, as then you will be bringing a magazine into CA that was not owned here prior to 2000. Hell, if you take it apart for cleaning and then put it back together again, that would still run afoul of the manufacturing statute. The idea that California will not be able to prevent it through action on its own part, with no outside help, is only for the importation aspect, and only for the first importation into California. It simply provides a way to legally and intentionally acquire a >10 round magazine in CA, since most of us can't reliably find them when out on a hike. If they made simple possession illegal, then there is no workaround.
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NRA Life Member No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#131
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i'm pretty sure there is no law in nevada banning flinging magazines across the border and in nevada you only have to obey nevada law its just a thought exercise i would never do this as it is incredibly ridiculous |
#132
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So, what you need to do is find a way to accomplish the same action - effectively flinging them across the border, to borrow your words - where, if California attempted to exercise jurisdiction over the person doing the flinging, it would be "inconsistent with the Constitution of ... the United States."
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NRA Life Member No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#133
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2. Strap standard capacity magazines to dog on Nevada side of the border 3. Step over to California 4. Dog follows you, bringing the magazines into California Can they put a dog in jail for importing standard capacity magazines? |
#134
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson 9mm + 5.56mm = .45ACP + 7.62 NATO = 10mm + 6.8 SPC = Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis; Jn 1:14 |
#135
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That may be the case, but I keep pointing out that PC 32310 reads (emphasis added): Quote:
Even if jurisdiction is given and charges brought, how is it that a person who was not physically in California could be convicted under a law which explicitly only applies to a "person in this state"? I don't think this can be reasonably read as "person who, in this state, imports." Of course, a recipient in California would still be vulnerable. Though shipping to themselves from out of state would be an interesting situation if my interpretation were correct...
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#136
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You, Sir, are obviously not a true aficionado of shrimp cocktail!
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#137
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We need a "lightbulb going on" emoticon
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Coyote Point Armory 341 Beach Road Burlingame CA 94010 650-315-2210 http://CoyotePointArmory.com |
#138
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As far as not being able to clean and reassemble, when I put magazines back together, my intent is for them to be used for the same purpose as when they were purchased. Also, if I leave the state and return, I am not illegally importing magazines, returning with magazines that I intend to use in the same way they were originally imported. Last edited by theicecreamdan; 12-04-2011 at 8:15 AM.. |
#139
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If it was your dog and you were present when the dog crossed you’d most likely be arrested on conspiracy charges (especially if you attached said mags to the dog).
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Hauoli Makahiki Hou ------- |
#140
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I don't think you can have a conspiracy with your dog. Conspiracy requires two or more persons.
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#141
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PC 32420. Section 32310 does not apply to the importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the same large-capacity magazine. Last edited by mrdd; 12-04-2011 at 12:47 PM.. |
#142
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Actually, I'd argue that it's completely different, because you are in control of the car, in that it has no will of its own other than what you as the operator do with it. The dog, on the other hand, unless it's on a leash, may (or may not) actually follow or come when it's called. On the other hand, though, 12020 doesn't seem to set out intent as an element of importation. As such, it would not be a violation of due process to instruct a jury that "a person may be presumed to intend the ordinary consequences of his or her voluntary actions." (Where intent is an element of the crime, it must be proven as a fact, and cannot be presumed.) If you have a dog which is accustomed to following you around without a leash on, and you strap something to it (a voluntary action), and it follows you across the border, a jury will more than likely be instructed that it may presume you intended for things to work out the way they did. Quote:
This is irrelevant, unfortunately. Unless you legally possessed the magazine(s) in question within the borders of the state of California prior to 1/1/2000, it doesn't really matter how they came to be within the state in the first place ... if you take them out and bring them back, it is effectively a new importation, and therefore a new crime. Arguably, the same issue arises for assembly of a magazine that you had disassembled, if it was not legally possessed within the borders of the state of California prior to 1/1/2000. I'd certainly rather be the prosecutor than the defense on that issue, to say the least. Quote:
Nope, because a dog can't consent, you cannot have a true agreement between the parties to commit a crime. I'd LOVE to be the defense on that one. (Now, if someone else attached the magazines to the dog, you could easily make the argument for conspiracy with that party.) Quote:
Actually, I'd never thought about this aspect of it before, and a close reading actually brings up an interesting question that I'd never noticed before. Quote:
It doesn't say anything about causing the import of a large-capacity magazine. So how is mail order of "large-capacity magazines" actually illegal?
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NRA Life Member No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#143
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Who cares about conspiracy with the dog it could be with a doorknob for all i care, its conspiracy to commit a crime
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Hauoli Makahiki Hou ------- |
#144
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Unless there's another person involved, you cannot be charged with conspiracy. You can't legally conspire with a dog.
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#145
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Or, are you saying you are a different person in Nevada than you are within California? |
#146
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Conspiracy means to "agree with others to do something", not simply to plan to do something by yourself. You cannot have a conspiracy without at least two people. Simply planning on your own to commit a crime is generally not in itself illegal, though there are some exceptions for certain crimes.
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#147
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Hauoli Makahiki Hou ------- |
#148
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Gene, Wish it would have worked, What a drag....Ca. is sooo wierded... Nice try though... Gotta give you credit for attempting to introduce in Ca. what every other state in the US already allows since the Federal ban expired...
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#149
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wut? They are still working on it as I understand. PS, not every other state allows hi-cap mags.... sounds like you're trollin recently
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#150
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Huh? Wish what "would have worked?"
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Coyote Point Armory 341 Beach Road Burlingame CA 94010 650-315-2210 http://CoyotePointArmory.com |
#151
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Huh?
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#152
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No change has been announced in the work around, and there are other states with mag capacity limits. Are you ok?
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www.christopherjhoffman.com The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights. Magna est veritas et praevalebit Last edited by Maestro Pistolero; 12-04-2011 at 7:16 PM.. |
#153
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Guess I forgot about Illinois and N.Y., But this post was meant as a complement. By the posts above mine I've read, a change seemed to have taken place.
Last edited by diginit; 12-04-2011 at 8:10 PM.. |
#154
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All according to plan
Having read this thread, the California DoJ has sent agents to the Nevada border to scout for the magazine-launching catapult that they believe Gene has set up to "import" magazines. Meanwhile, Gene and all those who have seen his package are sitting around somewhere wearing smoking jackets, sipping scotch, and s******ing uncontrollably.
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#155
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Sent from my Galaxy S II. Please overlook any typos. |
#156
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delete
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-If you insult me for my grammar errors, what makes you think I understand the insult? -Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Are we done -Voting is like falling off your bike. Sidewalk or street. Both are painful to fall on. But, the sidewalk (Mitt) is closer to the green grass. Last edited by jeep7081; 06-27-2012 at 9:17 AM.. |
#157
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BUT!!!! don't put them in maglocked rifle though. Taking them out of Cali and bringing them back in is also a bad idea 2. As long as they are "kits" and not a completed mag. They can never be assembled magazines while in CA, unless they are replacing a legally owned hi cap 3. As long as he ends up with the same amount of hi-caps as he had before he ordered the rebuild kits. |
#158
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If this does come to fruition it will most likely be an unintended consequence of something Bill Clinton did eighteen years ago. I can just imagine when Kamala Harris gains a complete understanding of the ramifications of this. She will yell OMFG! in Sacramento and they will hear her all the way to DC.
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#159
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We have made certain key parties that we cordially talk to at DOJ BoF aware that we have a workaround on this. They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#160
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That's a bunch of BS! They're sipping Kentucky's goodness; only Bourbon comes from Kentucky, the rest is just whisky
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