Long Beach/Lakewood Reloading Club **POST 430 UPDATE***

[Exodus343]

Originally Posted by HDgasser

I'm in for one at least, there's a guy at work that reloads And is also a member here and today I talked to him a lil bit about this reloading clinic deal and be said "ohh hell ya! Count me in!"

Ill pm someone tomorrow with a head count


BTW... Does this mean we won't get to shoot CSA's 50's now???

there's always another day we can shoot it!!!
and pm Colt, he's doing the list

[jfwlb]

Boy, I really hope I didn't ruffle any feathers with my post, and especially you CSACANNONEER as I know you are a long time member and I respect your views.

I am an old school Army salty dog that tends to bark but rarely bites. I do cuss quite a bit but try to mind myself in front of women and children. If you catch me being out of bounds, please tell me as sometimes I don't even realize I am doing it.

I am glad though, that the first meeting will be local and we can at least talk about club functions/goals without wearing earmuffs.

Sunday the 21st works great for me and I will google the Heritige for directions. See you there!

I do feel kind of bad though about people who have never shot an M2 not being able to shoot one. Maybe we can schedule a club range meet at ASR and all bring out the unique weapons we may have for a fun shoot.

I did not know that your M2 was bolt action CSA, and that it was so accurate. I have shot the M2 out to about 1800 meters, but I had to walk in the rounds to the target and it was not accurate fire at all. Definitely a bad day for those on the other side of the two way range though! A fitting testament to John Moses Browning.

Colt562 I sent you another pm.

John

[radioburning]

I'm interested. Colt, put me on the list. Not to be negative, but Heritage is usually still pretty full at 11:30, on the weekends. At least it seems that way when you're hung over, and just want to sit down and throw some biscuits and gravy at your aching liver.

[Exodus343]

Originally Posted by radioburning

I'm interested. Colt, put me on the list. Not to be negative, but Heritage is usually still pretty full at 11:30, on the weekends. At least it seems that way when you're hung over, and just want to sit down and throw some biscuits and gravy at your aching liver.

yo!!!
long time! lost your contact info

[HDgasser]

Originally Posted by radioburning

I'm interested. Colt, put me on the list. Not to be negative, but Heritage is usually still pretty full at 11:30, on the weekends. At least it seems that way when you're hung over, and just want to sit down and throw some biscuits and gravy at your aching liver.

And I thought I was the only one.

[LGB Loader]

So I have a question which was brought up to my attention, what are we going to do at this meet and greet? Is it a time just to get away from the wife and kids and just drink beer or are we actually going to discuss what we will be doing in the near future?

I believe the first meeting should be structuring the club. Vote Club officers, etc. Especially if we are trying to get donations. Who will ultimately own the gear or money donated will weigh on people's minds.

Lets do this right and organized.

LGB

[Colt562]

Originally Posted by LGB Loader

I believe the first meeting should be structuring the club. Vote Club officers, etc. Especially if we are trying to get donations. Who will ultimately own the gear or money donated will weigh on people's minds.

Lets do this right and organized.

LGB

I want to do this right as well. I was planning on storing the donated equipment. It will be placed in a secure spot and will only be used by the club. All donations will be public, so people know what they club has.

[LGB Loader]

Who will ultimately own the gear? Will there be voting of club officers?

LGB

[Colt562]

The club will own the gear, no one personally. There should be maybe two not I clouding myself.

[LGB Loader]

Hello Colt.
If this is to be called CGSSA Long Beach/Lakewood Reloading Club and money / gear is going to be donated, I personally think that we have a vote for the following club officers:
President
Vice President
Sgt of Arms
Secretary

There should should be yearly or bi-yearly elections on this as well.

LGB

[Colt562]

I'm thinking that's a little complicated and we should just have a couple members of the club that make decisions. Elections seem a little to extreme as well, but lets wait until we see other opinions.

[Bumslie]

Originally Posted by LGB Loader

Who will ultimately own the gear? Will there be voting of club officers?

LGB

Originally Posted by LGB Loader

Hello Colt.
If this is to be called CGSSA Long Beach/Lakewood Reloading Club and money / gear is going to be donated, I personally think that we have a vote for the following club officers:
President
Vice President
Sgt of Arms
Secretary

There should should be yearly or bi-yearly elections on this as well.


LGB

I will try to answer some of the questions here.

As to your first question, any donated gear to your chapter will be club owned by the Long Beach chapter.

As of now, Colt and Exodus are the club leaders as they are the ones who stepped up and are willing to get the Long Beach chapter started. Club leaders will be/are CGSSA representative C3 leaders.

Whatever chain of command you want to use is fine. I would say Colt/Exodus are president and vice, but that doesn't mean you guys cannot have a ruling body over club funds, organization, and events.

The chain of command as of now goes

CGSSA
Mrlonewolf and Pennysdad

State Coordinators (Also OC leaders)

Big Bronco
Myself
Dark Mod

Regional Club Leaders


We as the state coordinators communicate with every club chapter, and try to accommodate each club needs. It's still being tweaked, but each club will be following a guideline as to club dues and contributing members. We have to tread lightly to maintain our CGSSA C4 non-profit status.

I will be making it to the meeting only as a spectator, but will jump in to help shed light on any questions.

[LGB Loader]

So no voting in the club and there will be dues?

Thanks for answering my questions.

Happy 4th.

LGB

[Exodus343]

Originally Posted by LGB Loader

So no voting in the club and there will be dues?

Thanks for answering my questions.

Happy 4th.

LGB

we discussed different levels of membership after the Ventura clinic with
BigBronco and Bumslie, if you are paying the dues (contributions) you will have a say in the chapter/club, your voice will carry weight
if you don't want to contribute and just be associated with CGSSA reloading club, you will be a "Freeloader" meaning your just associated and you won't enjoy the benefits compared to contributing members

This was all just a discussion, therefore we all need to go to the meet and greet and discuss this

[Bumslie]

Originally Posted by LGB Loader

So no voting in the club and there will be dues?

Thanks for answering my questions.

Happy 4th.

LGB

Are you asking if you are able to vote colt and exodus out and take over?

Yes, you will have dues paying members. If you've watched the OC thread, it is included in the price of the workshop. That is still being fine tuned. With what we are working on and that will be available, it would be impossible to achieve without members.

[LGB Loader]

I have a very nice mancave, thank you very much. I was planning on contributing but with no vote and dues is pretty much what our government is trying to do to us.

This is not for me but I wish the club success.

LGB

[Colt562]

Originally Posted by LGB Loader

I have a very nice mancave, thank you very much. I was planning on contributing but with no vote and dues is pretty much what our government is trying to do to us.

This is not for me but I wish the club success.

LGB

Im not sure you understand what we are trying to do here, we wouldnt be able to do what we plan unless we have members. Those members will have a say in everything we do as a club. Me and Exodus stepped up to start this chapter under the mentality that this is not a one man operation but a majority rule type of club.

Please feel free to PM me with any concerns. We would love to have you apart of this but if you wish to not join, thats ok as well.

[HDgasser]

WhAt happened to Pizza???

[Colt562]

Well so far we have 14 people that have RSVP'd. If it turns out to be larger we may have to move it to a pizza place. Will keep everyone updated. If you PM'd me you will be notified via PM when the time comes. (only if you have PM'd me)

[Exodus343]

Originally Posted by Colt562

Well so far we have 14 people that have RSVP'd. If it turns out to be larger we may have to move it to a pizza place. Will keep everyone updated. If you PM'd me you will be notified via PM when the time comes. (only if you have PM'd me)

really?
that's a good turnout!

[HDgasser]

I don't think I PM'd colt yet so I make 15...

Edit .. Just PM'd colt!

[HDgasser]

I'd Also like to say that I really appreciate exodus and colts efforts to put this together. Being a newb to reloading I don't bring much to the table in that portion but I hope to soon be able too.

Being that there is dues/donations and equipment I really do think that voting people in charge of this stuff is a must BUT it makes it kinda difficult (for me) not really knowing people personally. It's not that I don't trust youze guys... But I don't trust youze guys! Lol

I'm sure that will change... I don't see anybody trying to screw over a bunch guys with a bunch of guns!

Another thing is location... 15 people is do-able in a garage but might get kinda tight with tables and equipment. Does anybody know of a shop, or a BIG enough garage that we could make available on a regular basis?

I'm not 100% but if need be I could talk my old man to letting us use his garage if it comes down to it. It's the biggest garage I know of that would be comfortable with 15ish people in it.

[BigBronco]

At the state level we are currently defining just what membership is and the rules of the road for all chapters. This is not an easy chore as nearly everyone has a different opinion. Have faith that with the voices of all being heard things will take form and be done the way it should. Will we make mistakes and have to take course corrections. I am sure of it. Nothing worth doing is easy.

With regards to voting. Ideally voting is necessary and a good thing. However just look at the state of our own government once the takers have decided they can vote themselves entitlements. We want to protect our clubs from cronyism. Groups who have their interest placed higher than the interest of the club in general.

The object of the club is to form a community of reloaders. To bring us all together under a common banner to help promote reloading, teach beginning loaders and let those on the fence try before they buy. Benefits hopefully will include group discounts on gear and supply's. I am sure we all want to protect ourselves from the here is my $20.00 what do I get crowd. At this stage of club building it will be more work than benefit. I know it has been for many.

So if you are just interested in what is in it for you and do not want to pull together and help then sit back and wait it out. If you want to build something that should last for years and years to come, look back say I had a part in that then welcome.

Peter
CGSSA Reloading State Director

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by LGB Loader

So no voting in the club and there will be dues?

Thanks for answering my questions.

Happy 4th.

LGB

The club is still in it's infancy. The Long Beach part of the LA County Chapter hasn't even started up yet. I'm not sure why you feel that you alone could make the decision to secede from the LA County Chapter. That's the sort of thing that should be voted on at the meet and great .

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by jfwlb

Boy, I really hope I didn't ruffle any feathers with my post, and especially you CSACANNONEER as I know you are a long time member and I respect your views.

No, I'm glad you spoke up. The club needs members who are willing to make suggestions and voice their opinions.

[jfwlb]

Another long one:
I want to put my 2 cents in, but then again I do not. Oh well, here we go:

First let me say this: I am definitely in/for this club. I will be traveling approx. 45 miles one way to attend the first meeting(just found that out today. So much for me staying local. Want move it back to ASR CSACANNONEER?).

I would bow out of the first meeting because obviously it will have no useful information on actual reloading and will deal solely on the structure of the club, which is not what I am looking for, but I want to be a part of this club. I know I am going to receive invaluable information from this entity regarding reloading, and regardless of the current political climate I believe in quid pro quo. I personally believe you should give back more than what you receive, but that is just the way I was brought up.

Whew! If you knew how long it took me to write that you would agree.
With that being said, I have some thoughts and questions, but no answers.

"Bad John, didn't the Army teach you to provide answers if you have question/concerns"? Yes they did, but I am all out.

When I first read about the starting of these statewide reloading chapters I thought "Cool, now I can learn to reload".

When I saw the Long Beach chapter forming I thought"Amazing! I am joining them(and I still think that)". What I didn't think about was the local chapter coming under the purview of the state leader and/or the local C3 leader. This can have a profound impact on the policies of the Long Beach Chapter as opposed to the San Jose Chapter. What might work in one chapter may not be compatible in another. I am sure that BigBronco knows that, but I just had to mention it.

I have been in the military, and understand a chain of command. I am missing something here. I am stupid. I don't understand how Blumsie(the State Coordinator) can state that " Whatever chain of command you want to use is fine. I would say Colt/Exodus are president and vice, but that doesn't mean you guys cannot have a ruling body over club funds, organization, and events". But then in the next sentence says" The chain of command as of now goes

CGSSA
Mrlonewolf and Pennysdad

State Coordinators (Also OC leaders)

Big Bronco
Myself
Dark Mod

Regional Club Leaders
My head is reeling! That is why I am attending the first meeting. I don't understand why an OC C3 Leader would even be in the chain of command for the Long Beach Chapter. Does that mean an OC C3 leader can tell the Long Beach club that they can't do an organized event, just because it doesn't fit his "social profile"? I know I am being stupid here, but what if?

Another thing: the idea of paid memberships, dues, and non-paid memberships. I believe that topic needs some very deep discussion. I really don't like the idea of "second class citizens" in any form, but I understand the distinction between paying and non-paying members. It's a hard line to hold but I am sure BigBronco knows the legal rules on that one.

That is all I have for now. Holy crap I can't believe I typed all of that out. It took me almost two hours.

This was not meant to nit-pick or slam anyone. I am just providing an opinion(s). PLEASE don't kick me out! Can't we all just get along!

John

P.S. Happy Independence Day Everyone! I will be pouring out 17 beers tomorrow for my friends and partners that gave their all in Iraq 2004-2006

[jfwlb]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

No, I'm glad you spoke up. The club needs members who are willing to make suggestions and voice their opinions.

Thank you CSA, from you I take that as a definite compliment. If you decide to be at the first meeting I would be honored to buy you a beer.

John

[Colt562]

Hey John,

I think where you got confused was when bumlie was talking about "chain of command"

Basically Pennysdad and Mrlonewolf are overseeing everyone.

Lets just put it into a business type term

Pennysdad and Mrlonewold= OWNERS

BigBronco, BUMSLIE, Dark Mod= district managers

Regional Club Leader= Store manager

and so on.

Hope that makes sense. As far as the dues, that is something we still need to work out.

We are still trying to figure out the mere details. As you can tell this is very complex and we dont have all the answers. This is something we talk about daily.

[jfwlb]

I still don't understand and that's fine, that's what the first meeting is for.

I really don't want to get an e-argument. When we meet I'll buy you a beer and we'll talk, cool?

John

[Bumslie]

John, let me see if I can clarify things for you.

First, Yes I'm state, and Yes I'm OC. If I could find someone to replace me for either one, I gladly would take it, but since it started in OC, I'm both for now.

2ndly. I have no control of what you guys do in LB. I only have say over club policy, rules and regs etc. I only have ruling body in OC. I'm not going to say you can't do this or that at an event. I'll probably be there to help at every event.

As regarding contributing members, it's a necessity. To be able to have club owned equipment and consumables ready for a loading class, the club needs the funds to buy it. Think of it like AAA, you contribute a small amount a year for a service i.e reloading class, but you are also going to have many more perks included. Such as equipment rentals, free class loading days, first priority on club bullet buys, etc. No one here is lining their pockets, it's all going to the club.

The reason we have regional chapters is for what you exactly described, to be able to adapt to the needs of that location. A clubs needs and wants will vary, but there still has to be an overall state ruling body, me being one of them.

There is so much to explain, you can pm me or big bronco, or even call us if you want so you will not have to make that long trek, but still be informed of whats to come.

[Colt562]

Originally Posted by jfwlb

I still don't understand and that's fine, that's what the first meeting is for.

I really don't want to get an e-argument. When we meet I'll buy you a beer and we'll talk, cool?

John

Well I dont drink but you can buy me a coke?

[jfwlb]

Bumslie: Please don't kick me out! I really am not a rabble rouser! lol

I have to say that that I agree with you and Colt562 100% I just thought the ideas I had were relevant and and I hadn't seen them surface before. I just wanted to make sure that those questions have been taken into consideration before we get too deep into this this. That's what the first meeting is for.

I'll add your beer to CSA's and Colts. Rounds on me!

John

[BigBronco]

Hey. Make mine a Guinness

This whole thing will be a bit of bump and grind. Every chapter must have it's own flavor. I feel the last thing anyone wants is a lockstep system of compliance. That being said. Someone has to do the dirty work. Rules governing chapters are a necessary evil.

For example. NO FELONS OR OTHERWISE PROHIBITED PERSONA SHALL BE ALLOWED MEMBERSHIP.

Now who would disagree with this one. So you see we all have one rule that all chapters must abide by. Next should a member free or otherwise be a registered Calguns user. Ooh we may have a second rule or bi-law or perhaps it should be the first one. Don't get me started on preventing the Reloading Cool-aide wars, flaming or trolling within the reloading forums.

Yes there will be rules however at the state level we hope to keep them to a minimum.

Things like should we start our meetings with the Pledge? This may be a valid issue to work out. Should it be an all chapter requirement or leave it up to individual chapters. All this is to be worked out by all of us.
We have an ocean to cross to get this going and right now only a canoe to start the journey.

Regional Club Leaders
My head is reeling! That is why I am attending the first meeting. I don't understand why an OC C3 Leader would even be in the chain of command for the Long Beach Chapter. Does that mean an OC C3 leader can tell the Long Beach club that they can't do an organized event, just because it doesn't fit his "social profile"? I know I am being stupid here, but what if?

I think what you do not understand or has not been explained is that your chapter leader will become / have C-3 access and possibly become a C-3 leader for the reloading clubs. CGSSA C-3 Leadership is a revolving door of volunteers they come and go some longer than others. Time personal and family issues can become more important. Heck 6 months ago I did not know what C-3 even was. Now I seem to be spending more time at the computer than with my wife. This is so not good for my sex life.

What I do know I like a few others are dedicated to making this happen and are in it for the long haul. However even we have weaknesses and outside obligations.

Perhaps I have made the mistake of not putting out all the pending info. I see it like this. Until those of you from the LGB area actually have the meet and greet this is just all talk. Actions make things happen. Once you all meet and officially say "lets do it." Create some form of leadership then the leaders will have access and a say in the shaping of things. It will be the responsibility of those leaders to serve the interest of the chapters general members.

LGB Reloaders concerns and points are on the mark. I certainly hope he reconsiders backing out.

Sure this is not the first club ever to come in to existence. However it is most likely the first club many of us have ever had a hand the birthing of. Any and all experience with running a club is welcome and appreciated.
Oh Look it took an hour to type this.


Peter

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by jfwlb

First let me say this: I am definitely in/for this club. I will be traveling approx. 45 miles one way to attend the first meeting(just found that out today. So much for me staying local. Want move it back to ASR CSACANNONEER?).

I would bow out of the first meeting because obviously it will have no useful information on actual reloading and will deal solely on the structure of the club, which is not what I am looking for, but I want to be a part of this club.

45 miles? Where are you located? Sooner or later, I hope we can get a chapter or sub chapter going closer to you. That is exactly how and why the LB Chapter is forming. LA County is big, people are lazy and don't want to travel to all parts of the county. Anyway, I've already traveled from the Acton area to OC for the first meeting, from Acton to Camarillo for the first Ventura County seminar and about 15 miles each way for the first LA County meeting. Anyway, let me know where you are and maybe we can start trying to get something going closer to you. In the mean time, attending any chapter's first meeting and giving you opinions on what you want to do for the club and what you want the club to do for you will be beneficial to you and the club. It will also earn you the status of "Founding Member".

[jfwlb]

Bumslie: I agree with and am happy to hear everything you just said. I don't have a problem with dues.

Colt562: The coke is on me.

BigBronco: Thanks Peter for that great information, That Guinness is well deserved.
"For example. NO FELONS OR OTHERWISE PROHIBITED PERSONA SHALL BE ALLOWED MEMBERSHIP."
This is why I am glad you guys are in charge, I hadn't even thought of that!

I, like you hope we have some members with experience forming clubs so we don't have to re-invent the wheel!
All of what I just read in your post was either new or not thought of by me, thank you for bringing it all up. That is why I want to be at the first meeting.

CSACANONEER: Actually, I live in E. Long Beach so I am local. Sorry for the confusion. Yesterday I committed to house sitting for someone for a week in Norco and didn't remember the meeting is right in the middle of that week. After the first meeting everything should be very local to me which is why I'm so anxious and excited to see this started.

While the status of "Founding Member" is nice I guess, it really doesn't motivate me. What motivates me is the chance to learn, and be a part of something that gets new people involved in this hobby. I really like to teach. If I can learn enough to teach someone else what I have been taught is the motivation to me.

Thanks
John

P.S. another hour gone Peter, this is why my post count is so low!

[Colt562]

Originally Posted by jfwlb

Bumslie: I agree with and am happy to hear everything you just said. I don't have a problem with dues.

Colt562: The coke is on me.

BigBronco: Thanks Peter for that great information, That Guinness is well deserved.
"For example. NO FELONS OR OTHERWISE PROHIBITED PERSONA SHALL BE ALLOWED MEMBERSHIP."
This is why I am glad you guys are in charge, I hadn't even thought of that!

I, like you hope we have some members with experience forming clubs so we don't have to re-invent the wheel!
All of what I just read in your post was either new or not thought of by me, thank you for bringing it all up. That is why I want to be at the first meeting.

CSACANONEER: Actually, I live in E. Long Beach so I am local. Sorry for the confusion. Yesterday I committed to house sitting for someone for a week in Norco and didn't remember the meeting is right in the middle of that week. After the first meeting everything should be very local to me which is why I'm so anxious and excited to see this started.

While the status of "Founding Member" is nice I guess, it really doesn't motivate me. What motivates me is the chance to learn, and be a part of something that gets new people involved in this hobby. I really like to teach. If I can learn enough to teach someone else what I have been taught is the motivation to me.

Thanks
John

P.S. another hour gone Peter, this is why my post count is so low!

Nice!!

Me personally I could do without "founding member"

The term "founding member" just sounds a little cliche and more of just a title.

and in reality the founding members of this are the ones who actually started the whole CGSSA Reloading Clubs.

[HDgasser]

Everyone still got all there fingers from last nite??

[tomtenney]

Bullet buttons, 50 cal ban and no fireworks in my naborhood, but the weather is nice.

[Exodus343]

Originally Posted by tomtenney

Bullet buttons, 50 cal ban and no fireworks in my naborhood, but the weather is nice.

man my neighborhood and the surrounding area was like Baghdad, going off all over the place, randomly

people just walking in the middle of the street and setting them off
driving on the freeway and i could hear fireworks go off on top of me

welcome to Gardena

[CityHunt3r]

It's illegal in long beach , but didn't stop anyone from lighting up.

So its confirmed, heritage on the 21 st? 1130am