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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
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#41
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I only do that if I have my AR pistol in my backpack - which is 12.2% of the time. Then its hells bells - lets party.
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#42
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Actually if my wife and I were in that restaurant I can tell you exactly how it would go.
Wife "Honey Did you see that man with a gun?" Me "What Man?" Wife "The one who took my purse" Me "Why did you give him your purse?" Wife "Never Mind"
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Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run |
#43
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Smart man!
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#44
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#45
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Enjoy your time in jail Rambo.
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"The best gun is the one you'll have on you when you need it the most, the one you know how to use, the one that goes BANG every single time you pull the trigger. Whether that gun cost you $349 or $1,100 it's worth every penny if it saves your life, or the life of someone you love.” -Tim Schmit, CCW Magazine July 2015 NRA Lifetime Member : CalGuns Lifetime Member : GOA Lifetime Member |
#46
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I don't know about anybody else's CCW training, but when I took mine we saw video footage of armed citizens drawing on and shooting perps only to be shot in the back by the accomplis nobody realized was there.
Don't assume the guy holding up the restaurant is stupid. Bad guys run in packs and chances are it's someone you didn't even notice. Even if there is no accomplis you can't guarantee your double tap is going to put him down like it does on TV. He could still shoot you or miss and hit the innocent family in the booth next to you. And don't think when the DA gets you in court that innocent family who just lost their mother is going to be on your side. They're likely to say the perp just wanted money and was going to leave peacefully until you went all Rambo. |
#47
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So what is your alternative. Blow the guy a kiss and hope he doesn't murder you and your family? |
#48
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Absolute FUD.
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Anchors Aweigh |
#49
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If he has his gun pointed at people waving it around he is a threat. If he says something iincluding “Or I will shoot you” then there is intent to do harm.
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My God, even the Conservatives are liberal in the messed up State |
#50
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A statement of intent to do harm is not required. In California, a person may use deadly force in defense of self or others if he or she is in reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury. There must be actual fear, and that fear must be reasonable under the circumstances. That’s it. A person is not even obligated to retreat in California.
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Anchors Aweigh |
#51
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2) Can you take that shot when they are *not* looking at you? Much harder to justify shooting pre-emptively unless you can't answer "yes" to both of those questions. |
#52
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"The best gun is the one you'll have on you when you need it the most, the one you know how to use, the one that goes BANG every single time you pull the trigger. Whether that gun cost you $349 or $1,100 it's worth every penny if it saves your life, or the life of someone you love.” -Tim Schmit, CCW Magazine July 2015 NRA Lifetime Member : CalGuns Lifetime Member : GOA Lifetime Member |
#53
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See Post #50. Having a gun pointed at you, or having a robber wave a gun around during a robbery, would place any reasonable person in fear of imminent death or great bodily injury.
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Anchors Aweigh Last edited by Mayor McRifle; 11-18-2017 at 6:03 PM.. |
#54
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Common sense would dictate that if you perceive someone to be a threat you dont wait until they look at you if you can help it. I know we are talking CA where the state does not want anyone to have the means to defend them self but I would not want the bad guy to see what I was about to do if I have a choice.
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#56
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No thanks, sounds like you need to take another class.
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Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run |
#57
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As I said, none of that will stop a DA from prosecuting you for shooting an armed individual who has not yet fired their weapon. Feel free to take your chances should the occasion ever arise, then let us know how it works out for you. I'll happily hand over my wallet, watch and phone, then just as hapilly testify in court.
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"The best gun is the one you'll have on you when you need it the most, the one you know how to use, the one that goes BANG every single time you pull the trigger. Whether that gun cost you $349 or $1,100 it's worth every penny if it saves your life, or the life of someone you love.” -Tim Schmit, CCW Magazine July 2015 NRA Lifetime Member : CalGuns Lifetime Member : GOA Lifetime Member Last edited by baggss; 11-19-2017 at 12:13 AM.. |
#58
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Last edited by Chewy65; 11-19-2017 at 4:54 PM.. |
#59
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unless im riding the Calico Steam train at Knott's Berry Farm and being confronted by mean dressed in cowboy attire, waving around old style Colts, then, it's not a prank for me
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#60
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No looking back in your case... If you don't demand they drop their weapon, they would have found it while they went through your person!!!
In your case they could have used your weapon on you and others. |
#61
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Anchors Aweigh Last edited by Mayor McRifle; 11-19-2017 at 5:18 AM.. |
#62
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Some cases where people were prosecuted: Heres a case in Antioch where a homeowner shot a robber in his garage and was prosecuted: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/cal...case-national/ Another from California Valley: http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/lo...e39208950.html Another from Antioch, a carjacking where the the victim was jailed and then released: http://www.interritusllc.com/single-...ng-SelfDefense Note that some of these are Home Self Defense cases, yet they were prosecuted. No, I don't know if the first two went to jail, but the mere fact is that they were even prosecuted for an act of defending their own home, much less in a public place. Additionally, there are differences for shooting inside the home and outside: Quote:
IMO, the last of the 3 is the most likely to cause the issue in the scenario listed by the OP. Also: this: Quote:
CALCRIM 505 (Cited above) is worded identically to CALCRIM 3470, but covers JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE vice SELF DEFENSE. The fact is, most self defense shootings in home are not prosecuted, but there's not a lot out there about self defense shootings outside the home.
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"The best gun is the one you'll have on you when you need it the most, the one you know how to use, the one that goes BANG every single time you pull the trigger. Whether that gun cost you $349 or $1,100 it's worth every penny if it saves your life, or the life of someone you love.” -Tim Schmit, CCW Magazine July 2015 NRA Lifetime Member : CalGuns Lifetime Member : GOA Lifetime Member Last edited by baggss; 11-19-2017 at 10:56 AM.. |
#63
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Anchors Aweigh |
#64
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My God, even the Conservatives are liberal in the messed up State |
#65
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If you had read CALCRIM 3470 or 505 you would see they do in fact pertain to the subject at hand, and 3470 is specific for Self Defense outside of the home. The Fear would not be sufficient to shoot the armed assailant. Remember, you have to convince not just the DA, but at trial a Jury as well, and they are going to be told to use the above guidelines when determining guilt or innocence when claiming SD. In the OPs scenario, if the assailant hasn't shot anyone, hasn't physically assaulted anyone and is just waiving their gun around and collecting walletts, then I do not believe that shooting them (in the back, in the face, whatever) would stand up in court as "reasonable force". Now, if the assailant pistol whiped someone or otherwise assaulted a person, thats a different scenario.
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"The best gun is the one you'll have on you when you need it the most, the one you know how to use, the one that goes BANG every single time you pull the trigger. Whether that gun cost you $349 or $1,100 it's worth every penny if it saves your life, or the life of someone you love.” -Tim Schmit, CCW Magazine July 2015 NRA Lifetime Member : CalGuns Lifetime Member : GOA Lifetime Member Last edited by baggss; 11-19-2017 at 4:02 PM.. |
#66
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#67
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Anchors Aweigh Last edited by Mayor McRifle; 11-19-2017 at 5:02 PM.. |
#68
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Bad guy with a gun= Im scurred for my life
Scurred= shoot the fugger at first opportunity! If you wait for him to use the gun you waited to long. Mr mayor has it right^^
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"That's more suspicious than a nun doing squats in a cucumber field!" |
#69
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I'm supposed to hand them my wallet and hope he doesn't shoot me? BS. That is an option available, certainly not a requirement. I'm voting for Mayor McRifle as well, if you are getting robbed at gunpoint you can shoot the mofo.
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Buy made in USA whenever possible. |
#71
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Opening scene of The Shootist not True Grit.
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#72
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WTB: 2.5” Colt Python 2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19 2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 66 4" Smith & Wesson Model 19 3.5" Smith & Wesson Model 29 Colt Series 70 1911 Sig Sauer West German P228 Glock Gen5 19/17/34 MOS Last edited by phdo; 11-19-2017 at 8:34 PM.. |
#73
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Who knows how we would react in this situation. For one, if someone is crazy enough to be walking around a restaurant brandishing a firearm and you don't fear for your life, get checked out. You are in immediate danger of great bodily injury or death... Whatever you chose is justified.
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" A Free People Ought Not Only Be Armed And Disciplined But Should Have Sufficient Arms And Ammunition To Maintain A Status Of Independence From Any Who Might Attempt To Abuse Them, Which Also Includes Their Own Government." ~George Washington~ |
#74
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OK, after re-reading the CALCRIM pages I'm buying the reasonable fear angle on this one. Mr. McRifle is likely correct, although I still don't know that I would randomly shoot the guy in the OPs scenario.
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"The best gun is the one you'll have on you when you need it the most, the one you know how to use, the one that goes BANG every single time you pull the trigger. Whether that gun cost you $349 or $1,100 it's worth every penny if it saves your life, or the life of someone you love.” -Tim Schmit, CCW Magazine July 2015 NRA Lifetime Member : CalGuns Lifetime Member : GOA Lifetime Member |
#75
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Glad to see you conceded his point. I am not sure I would draw or shoot in this scenario either, not from fear of prosecution but more because of potential collateral damage. But in this hypothetical scenario the whole scene is fluid and it wouldn't take much to tip my decision one way or the other. 1 Do I have a clear shot 2 what is behind my target 3 does he attempt to take restaurant manager into the back office 4 Does he pistol whip the guy who responded too slow. Lots of variables
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Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run |
#76
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Well, you could be like the offduty LEO at the McDonalds in Barstow who confronted a armed robber in a crowded restaurant rather than just being calm and "being a good witness" Girl Killed in Botched Holdup at McDonald's Tragedy: Gunman is fatally wounded by off-duty police officer at restaurant in Barstow. Young victim was 9. http://articles.latimes.com/1997-06-...d-s-restaurant |
#77
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Some libtards will argue that no one would have been shot, neither the 9 year old girl or the robber, had the off duty officer not confronted the robber. Possible. It is also possible that a lot more people would have been shot and killed had the officer not acted.
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#78
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Interesting thread. Reminds me of a scenario that played out in Bakersfield a few months ago. I took the 911 call from one of the customers, after two armed men entered a taco shop just after 9AM. One man held the customers at gunpoint in the dining room while the other entered the back and hit the safe. There's some good video surveillance here:
http://www.kerngoldenempire.com/news...mera/711277276 Personally, I don't know if I could draw and provide effective fire with the guy covering me at the door. |
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