Bug out Vehicle?

[DavidR310]

Those landcruisers are nice, but the mpg just kills it for me.

[Spec]

here is mine.



95 e250 coachman. slightly lifted ( needs another 2") fully self contained, sleep 4. I need to lift it a little more, better tires, add some racks and swing away spare.

she's road read right now and going on a shake down soon.

[skuehl]

Originally Posted by icentropy

6 months of research do not take the place of actually driving one off-road. I've owned Hummers for about 8 years now. During that time I've driven them on a variety of trails, I've taken off-road training courses that were specific to Hummers. I have never driven a 6.2NA or gas truck (i'll admit), all my experience is in 6.5NA and 6.5TD Hummers with 4sp trannys, neither combo is what i'd consider underpowered. The HMMWV was designed in the early 80s. The main differences since it's inception as a 198X HMMWV was the upgrade to a 6.5TD (the last year had a duramax) and the upgrade to a 4sp tranny (last year had an allison).

I drove my Hummer daily to work, we took 1000 mile road trips pulling our little military bugout trailer. When we relocated out of state, my wife drove it from southern CA to northern WA pulling a large uhaul enclosed trailer completely packed with stuff. My current 1995 Hummer has 280K miles and is still going strong on it's 6.5NA. I like hummers cause i've worked on them for years and i understand how they're built, their strengths and their weaknesses. Having that experience and knowledge I can make educated decisions on what the end result is for it's intended purpose. I'm just trying to keep the information on these trucks correct and truthful. They ARE high maintenance. They require oil and lube every 3K miles and there are over 80 lube points along the whole truck. If driven incorrectly or with oversized tires they will wear out steering pitman/idler arms within a year. Other owners that drive more conservitively off-road have steering components on their trucks that are over 5 years old. I know guys that drive extremely aggressively with massive tires, and hydraulic rams on their steering and they brag about distroying their steering in two days at moab. That's not the norm and they are not driving the truck as they should. They are NOT easy to learn to drive. Most owners don't take the time to learn the correct technique and end up stuck in silly situations that would make an experienced owner embarrassed. I can't tell you how many times i've seen a hummer with a tire off the ground and the owner is spinning it's wheels whining about being stuck. What's idiotic is if they applied a little brake and throttle together it'd lock their diffs and they'd drive right out...the truck is fully capable, the driver does not know how to use his rig. This happens a lot with rich guys and their antics embarrass us all. Even though the same thing applies to Jeeps, a stuck hummer makes everyone snicker while a stuck jeep doesn't get a second glance. It's sad but i suppose it's a culture thing.

BTW your rubicon was not designed on the rubicon trail. That's marketing rubbish and as a guy that has a degree in marketing and years in the field (back in the 00's) i can assure you your rubicon is a standard jeep with bolt on upgrades. Upgrades that still don't surpass a stock H1. the geared hubs have a 2:1 ratio, the axles can withstand a continuous 1200ft/lbs of torque. Transfer case is 2.7:1 with a Low Lock of 1:1. It's true that a 6.5NA or 6.5TD isn't the best engine (i hope to convert to a 12V 6BT eventually on the current truck) but there are lots of videos of a stock H1 calmly dragging a 4x4 superduty backwards while the superduty spins out its tires (on asphalt) i've seen a few where the superduty trucks snap their driveshafts.

High maintenance does not mean unreliable. My truck has never ever left me stranded.

But you don't like Hummers, that's fine. it's a personal choice but again, don't criticize a vehicle that you have no personal experience with. And no, sitting at a keyboard researching for hours does not constitute experience. If you must criticize then at least listen with an open mind to someone with more experience. If you want to truley learn about Hummers contact the HML, find a local experienced owner that off-roads in your area. (i might know a few people) and go visit, crawl under the truck, go on an offroading trip with a group of H1s, they'll be happy to have you along regardless of what you're driving. see how the trucks do offroad with an experienced driver and then come back and give your opinion. I doubt it'll be the same.

Im on the hummer side of this debate. icentropy send me a friend request and let me know if you ever see a great deal on one.

[Maddog5150]

Originally Posted by icentropy

6 months of research do not take the place of actually driving one off-road. I've owned Hummers for about 8 years now. During that time I've driven them on a variety of trails, I've taken off-road training courses that were specific to Hummers. I have never driven a 6.2NA or gas truck (i'll admit), all my experience is in 6.5NA and 6.5TD Hummers with 4sp trannys, neither combo is what i'd consider underpowered. The HMMWV was designed in the early 80s. The main differences since it's inception as a 198X HMMWV was the upgrade to a 6.5TD (the last year had a duramax) and the upgrade to a 4sp tranny (last year had an allison).

I drove my Hummer daily to work, we took 1000 mile road trips pulling our little military bugout trailer. When we relocated out of state, my wife drove it from southern CA to northern WA pulling a large uhaul enclosed trailer completely packed with stuff. My current 1995 Hummer has 280K miles and is still going strong on it's 6.5NA. I like hummers cause i've worked on them for years and i understand how they're built, their strengths and their weaknesses. Having that experience and knowledge I can make educated decisions on what the end result is for it's intended purpose. I'm just trying to keep the information on these trucks correct and truthful. They ARE high maintenance. They require oil and lube every 3K miles and there are over 80 lube points along the whole truck. If driven incorrectly or with oversized tires they will wear out steering pitman/idler arms within a year. Other owners that drive more conservitively off-road have steering components on their trucks that are over 5 years old. I know guys that drive extremely aggressively with massive tires, and hydraulic rams on their steering and they brag about distroying their steering in two days at moab. That's not the norm and they are not driving the truck as they should. They are NOT easy to learn to drive. Most owners don't take the time to learn the correct technique and end up stuck in silly situations that would make an experienced owner embarrassed. I can't tell you how many times i've seen a hummer with a tire off the ground and the owner is spinning it's wheels whining about being stuck. What's idiotic is if they applied a little brake and throttle together it'd lock their diffs and they'd drive right out...the truck is fully capable, the driver does not know how to use his rig. This happens a lot with rich guys and their antics embarrass us all. Even though the same thing applies to Jeeps, a stuck hummer makes everyone snicker while a stuck jeep doesn't get a second glance. It's sad but i suppose it's a culture thing.

BTW your rubicon was not designed on the rubicon trail. That's marketing rubbish and as a guy that has a degree in marketing and years in the field (back in the 00's) i can assure you your rubicon is a standard jeep with bolt on upgrades. Upgrades that still don't surpass a stock H1. the geared hubs have a 2:1 ratio, the axles can withstand a continuous 1200ft/lbs of torque. Transfer case is 2.7:1 with a Low Lock of 1:1. It's true that a 6.5NA or 6.5TD isn't the best engine (i hope to convert to a 12V 6BT eventually on the current truck) but there are lots of videos of a stock H1 calmly dragging a 4x4 superduty backwards while the superduty spins out its tires (on asphalt) i've seen a few where the superduty trucks snap their driveshafts.

High maintenance does not mean unreliable. My truck has never ever left me stranded.

But you don't like Hummers, that's fine. it's a personal choice but again, don't criticize a vehicle that you have no personal experience with. And no, sitting at a keyboard researching for hours does not constitute experience. If you must criticize then at least listen with an open mind to someone with more experience. If you want to truley learn about Hummers contact the HML, find a local experienced owner that off-roads in your area. (i might know a few people) and go visit, crawl under the truck, go on an offroading trip with a group of H1s, they'll be happy to have you along regardless of what you're driving. see how the trucks do offroad with an experienced driver and then come back and give your opinion. I doubt it'll be the same.

I drove hummers in the service. These weren't the nice up armored, these were light skinned ones like the ones pictured in this thread. No offense, but they broke, were constantly getting worked on, were crappy to drive and were HUGE! We would have to traverse muddy roads and streets that were narrow and pot holed up in a crappy peace keeping tour. Yeah we had free fuel and infinite parts but I wouldn't stake my life on them. Not only were they huge but they only seat four with not a lot of cargo room.
I think they were be a horrible bug out vehicle. What you did by restoring and upkeeping them, that's awesome! No one is taking that away from you. But a humvee would be a PITA. There is a reason afgan soldiers preferred toyota pick ups rather than hummers.

[DavidR310]

All of the Marines that I have "surveyed" at 29 Palms would take a Heep over the Hummer.

[R19]

No time to review this whole thread, but leaving very early and very fast in a terrible situation would be key or no matter what you have, you run a high risk of your course being completely blocked or being picked off by someone who wants your ride.

[Steve_In_29]

Originally Posted by DavidR310

Those landcruisers are nice, but the mpg just kills it for me.

My 1983 FJ60 still had a section in the Owner's Manual with intructions for using a hand crank to start the engine. The lower front valance panel had the hole for inserting the crank and all that was needed was the appropriate crank pully and the crank handle.

The vehicle was very over built, with the axles being Dana 60ish in strength. Once at the start of a fourwheel drive run, I managed to get the entire vehicle airborne at speed and came down HARD on the drivers side front wheel. I thought I had ripped the front axle out from under the vehicle but once the dust cleard everything appeared fine and I continued on the rest of the run with no issues. It wasn't until I was back at camp much later that I noticed the front axle housing had actually bent and needed to be replaced.

In a lesser vehicle I truely believe the trip would have been over once I had landed. In the Cruiser I was not only able to finish the run but also drove it 60 miles back to my house.

[BCDavis]

Originally Posted by R19

No time to review this whole thread, but leaving very early and very fast in a terrible situation would be key or no matter what you have, you run a high risk of your course being completely blocked or being picked off by someone who wants your ride.

Very true, but the reason so many people are focusing on off-road vehicles, is that we know the roads will probably be jammed, and even the dirt roads might be dangerous. The idea with a 4WD, is that you can take almost any route, and avoid contact with people. Obviously you have to get out of the city first. But once you are off the main roads, on on back trails, etc, you can hopefully avoid most other people. If you do run into other people, they are probably other preppers, and hopefully won't be a problem, because people with their own supplies, don't need to steal supplies...

[DavidR310]

Originally Posted by BCDavis

Very true, but the reason so many people are focusing on off-road vehicles, is that we know the roads will probably be jammed, and even the dirt roads might be dangerous. The idea with a 4WD, is that you can take almost any route, and avoid contact with people. Obviously you have to get out of the city first. But once you are off the main roads, on on back trails, etc, you can hopefully avoid most other people. If you do run into other people, they are probably other preppers, and hopefully won't be a problem, because people with their own supplies, don't need to steal supplies...

The Golden Hoarde theory.

[cudakidd]

If you live in a Urban Area your BOV better be a Helicopter because no matter what road vehicle you have you aren't getting out...

[BCDavis]

http://www.popsci.com/article/cars/n...src=SOC&dom=fb

[CaliforniaLiberal]

This whole thread seems pretty pointless from a practical point of view.

Do you really imagine that you'll find any roads not blocked by permanent traffic jams within a hundred miles of a city?

Maybe if you receive special notice of impending disaster 24 hours before everyone else you'd be able to get somewhere on a highway. And how do you pull that off?

[DavidR310]

Originally Posted by cudakidd

If you live in a Urban Area your BOV better be a Helicopter because no matter what road vehicle you have you aren't getting out...

"Roads?... Where we're going, we don't need roads."

[bigguns85]

Originally Posted by BCDavis

http://www.popsci.com/article/cars/n...src=SOC&dom=fb

That thing looks prutty sweet but I call bs on its anti tank round ability. Stoping a tank round would need another tank round for mid air collision or a large explosive round to alter the flight path unless its a directed energy weapon and then it needs to be very powerful. You still have to stop a bullet with a bullet essentually. Still overall its looks sweet.

[bigguns85]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaLiberal

This whole thread seems pretty pointless from a practical point of view.

Do you really imagine that you'll find any roads not blocked by permanent traffic jams within a hundred miles of a city?

Has anyone though of a monster truck like the Under Taker or a tank which will just run over vehicles? Maybe I just have a twisted mind that I want to crush cars with monster trucks and tanks

[Steve_In_29]

Originally Posted by bigguns85

Has anyone though of a monster truck like the Under Taker or a tank which will just run over vehicles? Maybe I just have a twisted mind that I want to crush cars with monster trucks and tanks

That is just a fantasy. I work with tanks and they aren't going to run over very many cars (let alone MILES of them) before they throw a track. Tanks are designed for flat, open ground and NOT rock crawling.

The monster truck isn't going to fare any better as the cars they crush are precisely placed to facilitate the "SHOW" they are putting on and in the real world would end up getting stuck and or cutting a tire.

Also the HORRENDOUS mileage of either (think gallons-per-mile for the tank) means even if you could make it over the stalled vehicles, that required fuel tanker following you sure couldn't.

As has been posted many times in these fantasy "bug out" threads, you people living in large metropolitan areas are pretty much SCREWED.

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaLiberal

This whole thread seems pretty pointless from a practical point of view.

Do you really imagine that you'll find any roads not blocked by permanent traffic jams within a hundred miles of a city?

Maybe if you receive special notice of impending disaster 24 hours before everyone else you'd be able to get somewhere on a highway. And how do you pull that off?

IMO, its not pointless if it gets people thinking about their options. I was of the "bug out" mindset when I began researching my options. After allot of reading and driving my routes to my chosen locations, I've decided to shelter in place.

I live in town but I do have a couple of locations to go to if I REALLY need to leave my home. Fortunately, they are within walking/bicycling distance. Some people aren't this fortunate will need a BOV to get to where they want to be, which is why these types of threads are started. If I were one of those people I'd be less concerned about traffic blockages and more concerned about people/groups lying in wait for passing vehicles to hijack.

[Steve_In_29]

Originally Posted by icentropy

6 months of research do not take the place of actually driving one off-road. I've owned Hummers for about 8 years now. During that time I've driven them on a variety of trails, I've taken off-road training courses that were specific to Hummers. I have never driven a 6.2NA or gas truck (i'll admit), all my experience is in 6.5NA and 6.5TD Hummers with 4sp trannys, neither combo is what i'd consider underpowered. The HMMWV was designed in the early 80s. The main differences since it's inception as a 198X HMMWV was the upgrade to a 6.5TD (the last year had a duramax) and the upgrade to a 4sp tranny (last year had an allison).

I drove my Hummer daily to work, we took 1000 mile road trips pulling our little military bugout trailer. When we relocated out of state, my wife drove it from southern CA to northern WA pulling a large uhaul enclosed trailer completely packed with stuff. My current 1995 Hummer has 280K miles and is still going strong on it's 6.5NA. I like hummers cause i've worked on them for years and i understand how they're built, their strengths and their weaknesses. Having that experience and knowledge I can make educated decisions on what the end result is for it's intended purpose. I'm just trying to keep the information on these trucks correct and truthful. They ARE high maintenance. They require oil and lube every 3K miles and there are over 80 lube points along the whole truck. If driven incorrectly or with oversized tires they will wear out steering pitman/idler arms within a year. Other owners that drive more conservitively off-road have steering components on their trucks that are over 5 years old. I know guys that drive extremely aggressively with massive tires, and hydraulic rams on their steering and they brag about distroying their steering in two days at moab. That's not the norm and they are not driving the truck as they should. They are NOT easy to learn to drive. Most owners don't take the time to learn the correct technique and end up stuck in silly situations that would make an experienced owner embarrassed. I can't tell you how many times i've seen a hummer with a tire off the ground and the owner is spinning it's wheels whining about being stuck. What's idiotic is if they applied a little brake and throttle together it'd lock their diffs and they'd drive right out...the truck is fully capable, the driver does not know how to use his rig. This happens a lot with rich guys and their antics embarrass us all. Even though the same thing applies to Jeeps, a stuck hummer makes everyone snicker while a stuck jeep doesn't get a second glance. It's sad but i suppose it's a culture thing.

BTW your rubicon was not designed on the rubicon trail. That's marketing rubbish and as a guy that has a degree in marketing and years in the field (back in the 00's) i can assure you your rubicon is a standard jeep with bolt on upgrades. Upgrades that still don't surpass a stock H1. the geared hubs have a 2:1 ratio, the axles can withstand a continuous 1200ft/lbs of torque. Transfer case is 2.7:1 with a Low Lock of 1:1. It's true that a 6.5NA or 6.5TD isn't the best engine (i hope to convert to a 12V 6BT eventually on the current truck) but there are lots of videos of a stock H1 calmly dragging a 4x4 superduty backwards while the superduty spins out its tires (on asphalt) i've seen a few where the superduty trucks snap their driveshafts.

High maintenance does not mean unreliable. My truck has never ever left me stranded.

But you don't like Hummers, that's fine. it's a personal choice but again, don't criticize a vehicle that you have no personal experience with. And no, sitting at a keyboard researching for hours does not constitute experience. If you must criticize then at least listen with an open mind to someone with more experience. If you want to truley learn about Hummers contact the HML, find a local experienced owner that off-roads in your area. (i might know a few people) and go visit, crawl under the truck, go on an offroading trip with a group of H1s, they'll be happy to have you along regardless of what you're driving. see how the trucks do offroad with an experienced driver and then come back and give your opinion. I doubt it'll be the same.

I did 17+ years in the Marines and was in when we first received the HMMWVs and once we got over the "newness" we never had much good things to say about them.

Where I work now (civilian for the Marines) we have hundreds of HMMWVs and they are ALWAYS broke. Suspension parts, engines, transmissions, etc which are all things that are NOT repairable in a bug-out situation. Our MT mechanics get buttloads of overtime.

The HMMWV is an underpowered, bigger-then-it-needs-to-be POS that only works well in areas that allow for its bulk. It is well suited to open country or desert, but narrow roads/trails, forests, and rocks will stop it in it's tracks.

On a 4WD run in Big Bear, I once saw a Hummer stuck with it's flat belly on a large rock with all 4 wheels off the ground. A rock that all the other lesser (?) vehicles manged to negotiate just fine. The little Zuki Samurai that had to jerk it off looked like an ant trying to move a molehill.

It will never fit on all those little-used, hidden, small two-track trails that you people fantasize about using in a bug-out situation.

[Steve_In_29]

Originally Posted by Squidward

IMO, its not pointless if it gets people thinking about their options. I was of the "bug out" mindset when I began researching my options. After allot of reading and driving my routes to my chosen locations, I've decided to shelter in place.

I live in town but I do have a couple of locations to go to if I REALLY need to leave my home. Fortunately, they are within walking/bicycling distance. Some people aren't this fortunate will need a BOV to get to where they want to be, which is why these types of threads are started. If I were one of those people I'd be less concerned about traffic blockages and more concerned about people/groups lying in wait for passing vehicles to hijack.

If people somehow(?) managed to get out early enough to avoid the "traffic blockages", I highly doubt there would be anybody "laying in wait" for them. By the time the bad-guys(?) started setting up ambushes the roads would be impassable and people on foot would be the targets.

[Jimi Jah]

Originally Posted by Steve_In_29

As has been posted many times in these fantasy "bug out" threads, you people living in large metropolitan areas are pretty much SCREWED.

Not necessarily. A friend living in Palmdale was able to get to Sylmar and back with his H1 Hummer after the 1994 quake when no one was able to get into LA, all the freeway bridges fell down. A few forest roads and 'detours' around gates allows well equipt vehicles to get around street car obstructions.

[Steve_In_29]

Originally Posted by Jimi Jah

Not necessarily. A friend living in Palmdale was able to get to Sylmar and back with his H1 Hummer after the 1994 quake when no one was able to get into LA, all the freeway bridges fell down. A few forest roads and 'detours' around gates allows well equipt vehicles to get around street car obstructions.

Getting from Palmdale to Sylmar is hardly "getting into LA". Sylmar is just barely part of the LA cesspool and still has plenty of open areas that allow for relatively easy off-the-road travel, so I really wouldn't hold that up as a true example of getting into or out-of an urban environment. Plus it's a trip that ANY decently equipped 4WD vehicle could have done so the H1 is hardly a requirement.

Plus there was no mass migration happening after that quake. In a real everybody-get-out-of-dodge situation, those detours would soon be blocked by breakdowns or more likely from desperate people attempting to navigate them in cars and other vehicles not properly equipped to do so.

[thomashoward]

Originally Posted by cudakidd

If you live in a Urban Area your BOV better be a Helicopter because no matter what road vehicle you have you aren't getting out...

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bug in . Around here you won't even make it to the freeway before you get jammed up.
If necessary to bug out after a week or two, I'll be on my own two feet.