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  #41  
Old 12-23-2019, 9:22 PM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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Ok. Thank you. Who knows maybe they will approve it before Christmas. Dear Santa all I want for Christmas is my firearm rights back.
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  #42  
Old 12-23-2019, 9:43 PM
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It will cost more but maybe see if the weapon can be transferred to another FFL that will will release?
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  #43  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big red View Post
It will cost more but maybe see if the weapon can be transferred to another FFL that will will release?
In the future I will be doing that. For my first purchase I want to get a PROCEED before taking possession of a firearm. I don't want to be prohibited and in possession of a firearm. Hopefully they will figure it out and give me that PROCEED.
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  #44  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
In the future I will be doing that. For my first purchase I want to get a PROCEED before taking possession of a firearm. I don't want to be prohibited and in possession of a firearm. Hopefully they will figure it out and give me that PROCEED.
PROCEED is a NICS thing not a CA DES thing. In CA, the dealer never knows if a NICS was done or the result.

You can get a PROCEED in NICS and CA DOJ can still delay or deny the approval in DES.

Did you ever get your FBI rap sheet? Have you gotten an updated copy of it since CA DOJ fixed your record? You need to make sure your federal record is also fixed or you will not pass NICS, and then CA DOJ will give you the stink eye.
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  #45  
Old 12-24-2019, 1:45 AM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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No I have not. The DOJ analyst I spoke to said the updated info would be sent to FBI. I guess I should get that.
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  #46  
Old 01-08-2020, 3:15 AM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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Well did the DROS 12/12/19. Still no word back. Still no denial. Guess thats a good thing so far. This has to be the longest 30 days of my life.
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  #47  
Old 01-08-2020, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
Well did the DROS 12/12/19. Still no word back. Still no denial. Guess thats a good thing so far. This has to be the longest 30 days of my life.
If you did a DROS on 12/12/19. And didn't get a "DELAYED or DENIED" status.

You could have picked up your firearm on 12/22/19.

If you fail to accept delivery for 30 days. You have to re-DROS it.
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  #48  
Old 01-08-2020, 4:30 PM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
If you did a DROS on 12/12/19. And didn't get a "DELAYED or DENIED" status.

You could have picked up your firearm on 12/22/19.

If you fail to accept delivery for 30 days. You have to re-DROS it.
Unfortunately it was delayed.
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  #49  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
Unfortunately it was delayed.
In which case you can pick it up in 3 more days.

Unless you fugged up and did business with an A-hole FFL who won't release on "undetermined".
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  #50  
Old 01-10-2020, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
In which case you can pick it up in 3 more days.

Unless you fugged up and did business with an A-hole FFL who won't release on "undetermined".
Too late
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...2&postcount=38

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
Just received this letter. Pretty disheartening. Is there a chance even with getting my record cleared I would still be prohibited? My FFL does not release on undetermined. In my case I wouldn't want to risk taking possession without a PROCEED. What now?
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  #51  
Old 01-10-2020, 1:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Today 1/10/19 is 30 days from the DROS date. I have not heard anything from the FFL so I am going to bet it is going to go undetermined. What is my best course of action to find out why and correct the issue? As I see it I could do a PFEC, another DROS, or do as it states on the bottom of the form and request a live scan using (BF8016RR). I had a number to CA DOJ but it no longer works and directs you to using an e mail contact.
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  #52  
Old 01-10-2020, 9:23 AM
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Get your FBI rap sheet. Make sure it reflects reduced charges. Do the live scan that DOJ said you could do on the delay letter.

Other than that, not much you can do to prevent going undetermined short of getting a lawyer to go after DOJ. I recommend Jason Davis.

Only buy from FFLs who release on undetermined.

Good luck.
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  #53  
Old 01-10-2020, 9:37 AM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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Read this in another post. I hope I am not in for this kind of fun. Does this happen often?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
Yes, you need to be concerned about NCIS records. I have a client that CA DOJ records show is not a prohibited person. They (CA DOJ) actually allowed an inter family transfer to my client. But, NCIS records show him as a prohibited person. We filed a federal (FBI) appeal, which was denied because the FBI refused to recognize that the reduction of his offense to a misdemeanor no longer made him a prohibited person. I will be filling a federal law suit on his behalf in a few weeks. If you want to discuss the particulars of your situation you should PM me, so our discussion is protected by the Attorney client privilege.
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  #54  
Old 01-10-2020, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
The header of HOME page here on CG is:

Quote:
Calguns.net® The Home of the California Firearms Owner's Resistance
As a PSA, CG should include a reminder to all who visit CG.

DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH A-HOLE FFLs WHO REFUSE TO FOLLOW THE LAW AND RELEASE ON UNDETERMINED.

Big header at top of EVERY PAGE.

Last edited by pacrat; 01-10-2020 at 4:52 PM..
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  #55  
Old 01-18-2020, 11:01 AM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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Just got a call from the FFL. This DROS went "Undetermined". He normally would release on undetermined but will not this time because I had a "Denial" on the first DROS we ran.
My bet is NICS does not have the updated information. The wait continues. Thanks for all your help so far.
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  #56  
Old 01-18-2020, 9:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
Just got a call from the FFL. This DROS went "Undetermined". He normally would release on undetermined but will not this time because I had a "Denial" on the first DROS we ran.
My bet is NICS does not have the updated information. The wait continues. Thanks for all your help so far.

Not releasing on denial is understandable as following the law.

Arbitrarily refusing to release on undetermined is an affront to you, your rights, and the law as written.

I would love the opportunity to sue such a smug hubris driven A-hole. Until citizens start suing FFLs who choose of their own volition to deny the rights of their customers. They will continue to F over their customers.
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  #57  
Old 01-19-2020, 4:27 PM
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I won't rehash my thoughts as to Pacrat's interpretation of one's legal rights, but your dealer says that he normally releases to an undetermined. That suggests that your purchase contract did not give the dealer the right to refuse delivery if the DOJ failed to determine whether or not you were a prohibited person (your status is "undetermined"). If that is the case, I agree with Pacrat in that you should sue.
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  #58  
Old 01-19-2020, 7:00 PM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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If it was just some A hole FFL I would. The FFL was very understanding regarding my situation and is not charging a restocking fee and has held on to the firearm until I can get this figured out. Im not a fan of burning bridges in a small community either. It may not be popular opinion but given my situation I understand him not releasing the firearm. If anyone has any advice on what to do now that it went "undetermined" I am all ears.

Another cal gunner said I may have DROS'ed too close to when my CA DOJ file was amended. It was amended on 12/2/19 and I ran DROS 12/12/19.

Should I DROS again? I have checked my DOJ and FBI files and everything looks good. What else can I do? Other than go to an FFL that releases on undetermined.

Last edited by f1tzg3r4ld; 01-19-2020 at 9:30 PM..
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  #59  
Old 01-19-2020, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
If it was just some A hole FFL I would. The FFL was very understanding regarding my situation and is not charging a restocking fee and has held on to the firearm until I can get this figured out. Im not a fan of burning bridges in a small comunity either. It may not be popular opinion but given my situation I understand him not releasing the firearm. If anyone has any advice on what to do now that it went "undetermined" I am all ears.

Another cal gunner said I may have DROS'ed too close to when my CA DOJ file was amended. It was amended on 12/2/19 and I ran DROS 12/12/19.

Should I DROS again? I have checked my DOJ and FBI files and everything looks good. What else can I do? Other than go to an FFL that releases on undetermined.
Only you can decide how to deal with your FFL. IMO he is "just some A hole FFL". According to his own behavior. Meanwhile he sits back, while assured he gets to not only keep YOUR money. But needlessly costing you even more time and money. JUST BECAUSE OF HIS EXTRA-LEGAL POLICY!

Your first DROS cost YOU $35, as did the second DROS. You already invested $70 in DROS fees. Which legally, should be the end of it.

Now it will cost YOU the the change in "EMERGENCY" DROS FEE increase.
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1576282 Implemented 1-1-20, your next DROS will cost you an additional $47.19. For a total of $117.19 just in fees.

There is NO LEGALLY MANDATED REASON, for another DROS.
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  #60  
Old 01-19-2020, 8:41 PM
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I agree with you. Spending the extra cash is inconvenient.
I had a felony on my record so at this point I'm just happy to be making progress.
I've searched all over the internet and cal guns and cant figure out a way to find out why I went undetermined.
Is there anything I can do or should I DROS again?
I also wondered if it could be the firearm that caused the undetermined. FFL said he ordered it new.
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  #61  
Old 01-19-2020, 9:16 PM
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It wasn’t the firearm, it was you. Get your FBI rap sheet.
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  #62  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:55 PM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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Thanks SkyHawk. I have an appointment scheduled to get fingerprinted and get my FBI rap sheet.
I have an FBI background check done yearly for work and it didn't show anything. Maybe they are different somehow.
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  #63  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:36 AM
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I forgot to comment on this question you asked.

Quote:
Another cal gunner said I may have DROS'ed too close to when my CA DOJ file was amended. It was amended on 12/2/19 and I ran DROS 12/12/19.
That may very well be. Certain electronic DOJ systems are very expeditious.

Others that require Public Sector Union members who can't be fired for incompetence to actually do their damn job. Can take months.

Remember Gov. moves just a bit slower than most glaciers. And there is no Gov. more incompetent than Crap-O-fornia's.

DOJ...........NEVER gives a reason for an "undetermined status"! Sometimes they refuse to give reason for a denial. And simply list reason as "OTHER".

If forced to give a reason. They couldn't call it "undetermined".
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  #64  
Old 01-20-2020, 11:49 AM
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If it went undetermined this time you are making progress. After my reduction, the first one went undetermined. The second went delayed and then approval after delay. Now they are going 10 day approved.

Being in the same boat I think you would experience the same or similar. On the bright side, you did not get denied.
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  #65  
Old 01-20-2020, 9:53 PM
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Thanks Grumeazy.
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  #66  
Old 01-21-2020, 5:11 PM
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grumeazy said:

Quote:
you did not get denied.
True enough.

But you are being screwed. By your FFL!

Time to OUT the AHOLE FFL. So other CalGunners can be warned to avoid the bastard.

Last edited by pacrat; 01-21-2020 at 5:26 PM..
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  #67  
Old 01-23-2020, 9:01 PM
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I sent this message to CA DOJ.
Quote:
Hello,
December 2nd I was granted an amendment to my CA DOJ file to reflect the reduction and dismissal under PC 1203.4 and PC 17b. The orders were granted by Sacramento County Superior Court 3/8/2019. I recently tried to purchase a firearm and it was Delayed and then went Undetermined. I believe this may be because the NICS system has not been updated with the current information. On October 14th 2019 I received this response from your department :

"DOJ will also contact the Federal

Bureau of Investigation to amend their summary criminal history record, so that it matches the criminal

history record as maintained by the California DOJ."



Can you please confirm the December 2nd amended record has been transmitted to the Federal


Bureau of Investigation.

Thank you for your time.

This is the response I received.
Quote:
Thank you for contacting the California Department of Justice (DOJ), Record Review and Challenge Section

regarding the process on disputing the information contained in your California state criminal history record.



Since you’ve already submitted a Claim of Alleged Inaccuracy or Incompleteness, this inquiry will be

processed as a subsequent challenge. The challenge will be reviewed and a written response will be mailed,

along with an amended copy of your criminal history record if appropriate.



As part of your challenge, we will request your FBI record be updated to match your California record if

appropriate.



We appreciate you taking the time to submit your inquiry.

California Department of Justice

Applicant & Record Quality Services Branch

Record Review and Challenge Section

recordreview@doj.ca.gov
It appears they opened another Claim of Alleged Inaccuracy or Incompleteness on my behalf. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Anyone ever have this happen or know what they would amend without any new documentation on my behalf?
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  #68  
Old 01-23-2020, 9:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
I sent this message to CA DOJ.

This is the response I received.


It appears they opened another Claim of Alleged Inaccuracy or Incompleteness on my behalf. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Anyone ever have this happen or know what they would amend without any new documentation on my behalf?
It is a good thing IMO. It sounds like they will make sure the FBI gets your updated CA info, which will reflect your reduction to misdemeanor.
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  #69  
Old 01-24-2020, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
Thanks SkyHawk. I have an appointment scheduled to get fingerprinted and get my FBI rap sheet.
I have an FBI background check done yearly for work and it didn't show anything. Maybe they are different somehow.
Did you ever get your FBI rap sheet?
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  #70  
Old 01-24-2020, 9:28 AM
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Op, did you ever run your fbi background. I filled mine out online and certain post offices will finger print you at their location. The website will show you which offices do. I believe it cost about $50 , but literally had my report by the time I walked out to my truck. Cadoj had not updated my fed record . You can then challenge the accuracy online , upload your amended livescan report as well as court minute orders. I had my amended copy back in roughly 45 days showing my 17b .

Hope this helps . I never tried to DROS anything before getting everything updated on both sides so makes me wonder if the earlier failed DROS is possibly throwing a red flag, this the undetermined status ? Just a thought
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  #71  
Old 01-24-2020, 9:32 AM
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www.edo.cjis.gov

That should get you the info on pulling fbi background
If you already did disregard my post
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  #72  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:58 AM
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I have to wait till next week to get FBI rap sheet. I live in a smaller town with no services or expediters. I did not want to send it in by mail because of the wait time. I am going to use a company called Fingerprinting Express. They said I would have it in my e mail within 2 days and a hard copy in the mail.
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  #73  
Old 02-07-2020, 4:00 PM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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Default Success!

Success. I just went and picked up my firearm. Its been a long road but it all worked out. Thank you to all those that helped me and gave me advice along the way.
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  #74  
Old 02-07-2020, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
Success. I just went and picked up my firearm. Its been a long road but it all worked out. Thank you to all those that helped me and gave me advice along the way.
Congrats! Was your DROS approved or did it go undetermined, or??
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  #75  
Old 02-07-2020, 8:33 PM
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Congrats
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  #76  
Old 02-08-2020, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Congrats! Was your DROS approved or did it go undetermined, or??
My DROS was approved.
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  #77  
Old 02-08-2020, 7:43 PM
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Congratulations, Fitz!
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  #78  
Old 02-08-2020, 7:49 PM
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My DROS was approved.
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  #79  
Old 02-08-2020, 11:21 PM
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😁😁😁👍👍👍
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  #80  
Old 02-09-2020, 1:39 AM
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Congrats!
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