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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 12-02-2009, 9:45 AM
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Default Tattoo keeps man out of U.S. Air Force basic tra

Wow. Tattoo's now verboten on right arm or hand to enter service?

"There are no tattoos (allowed) on the right arm or the hands — that's the modification," said Christa D'Andrea, chief of public affairs for Air Force Recruiting Services in San Antonio. "(It is) in an effort to keep up the military image."

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_139011...nclick_check=1
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Old 12-02-2009, 9:57 AM
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Wow. There are people that I joined the army with that have tattoos all over. Some even have tattoos on their hands and neck. I don't see why tattoos should disqualify someone from serving. This is ridiculous. I could see if the tattoos were racist or very offensive but his name?
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2009, 9:59 AM
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Navy has cracked down on tattoos also, just in the last couple of years or so. Its a Mastable offense now.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:01 AM
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apparently, they want you to look clean and presentable as you kill someone... a better military public presentation bww ha ha
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:33 AM
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Tattoos on lower arm looks like trash IMO. LEO are not suppose to those these, makes the image look bad. I agree with this. Either cover it or find another line of work.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:50 AM
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apparently, they want you to look clean and presentable as you kill someone... a better military public presentation bww ha ha
I disagree with you. Most military jobs aren't to go out and kill people. Most if not all have some training to a ceratin degree to kill someone but that is not their main function. My main function in the AF is to support the pilots who go out and bomb mother F'ers who deserve to die. I have several tattoos on my legs, arms, shoulders, stomach, back, chest, etc... but I keep them covered. Part of being in the military is mainitaining a professional looking appearance. I don't have a problem with guys and gals going and getting tattoos to show where they have been, what branch they are in, and as momentos of military service. It's their right to do so but I do believe they should show them off on their own time. Once that uniform goes on it's time to show respect to the uniform and the country you serve in. Cover em up or get out.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:00 AM
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I agree, but from what I am reading, covering is not an option.

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Originally Posted by 45DAVID1 View Post
I disagree with you. Most military jobs aren't to go out and kill people. Most if not all have some training to a ceratin degree to kill someone but that is not their main function. My main function in the AF is to support the pilots who go out and bomb mother F'ers who deserve to die. I have several tattoos on my legs, arms, shoulders, stomach, back, chest, etc... but I keep them covered. Part of being in the military is mainitaining a professional looking appearance. I don't have a problem with guys and gals going and getting tattoos to show where they have been, what branch they are in, and as momentos of military service. It's their right to do so but I do believe they should show them off on their own time. Once that uniform goes on it's time to show respect to the uniform and the country you serve in. Cover em up or get out.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:02 AM
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Is this new regulation just for air force or army as well???
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by PatriotnMore View Post
I agree, but from what I am reading, covering is not an option.
Maybe he should have asked the question about tattoos and policies. All of us in the military know that the recruiters will only tell us what we ask about. Ignorance is no excuse. Besides, why would you get your own first name tattooed on your arm? Is he that stupid to forget his own name? If so he should join the ARMY and not the AF...lol
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:06 AM
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Rules regarding tattoos should not have changed. It's BS, it's their performance that should matter.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:10 AM
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Rules regarding tattoos should not have changed. It's BS, it's their performance that should matter.
So, should the military allow people with facial tattoos to be the new poster children for our countries future? Should we allow them to be representatives for our country with full sleeves? Every single person who puts on a uniform in the .mil is basically an international representative our our country. Performance + appearance is what matters.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:11 AM
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When your in uniform your all supposed to look the same. If it's covered up by your shirt sleeves I expect you'll have no problem. The military has never been about personal expression. The military is about conformity and doing what your told. If you can't follow simple directions you wont get far in the military. They guy that wants to be different from everyone else is the first one to have problems in boot camp.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2009, 11:17 AM
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His name deal is pretty lame, however when I was in the Navy, tattoos were common place, as with other services.

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Originally Posted by 45DAVID1 View Post
Maybe he should have asked the question about tattoos and policies. All of us in the military know that the recruiters will only tell us what we ask about. Ignorance is no excuse. Besides, why would you get your own first name tattooed on your arm? Is he that stupid to forget his own name? If so he should join the ARMY and not the AF...lol
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by PatriotnMore View Post
His name deal is pretty lame, however when I was in the Navy, tattoos were common place, as with other services.
I know they are common place. At my base the guys who have been in awhile and are tatted up, myself included, must cover them up as much as possibly while in uniform. Once I am off duty I can show them as much as I want.
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  #15  
Old 12-02-2009, 11:24 AM
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:24 AM
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I think it's stupid. plain and simple. A tattoo doesn't impare your ability to fight, therefore it shouldn't matter. Just because a tatoo shows during a salute doesn't make the salute any less respectful. If someone volunteers to defend our country, i say we take them anyway they come. It's physical ability, not physical appearance that makes the difference.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:25 AM
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yeah i have an american flag covering almost my entire right bicep. i doubt the AF will kick me out for that :P
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:32 AM
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I think it's stupid. plain and simple. A tattoo doesn't impare your ability to fight, therefore it shouldn't matter. Just because a tatoo shows during a salute doesn't make the salute any less respectful. If someone volunteers to defend our country, i say we take them anyway they come. It's physical ability, not physical appearance that makes the difference.
Have you ever been in the military?
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2009, 11:59 AM
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I believe that the regulation was that tats are okay as long as they are covered up with the full service dress uniform. So nothing above the neck or below the wrist.
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:02 PM
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Think before you ink.
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  #21  
Old 12-02-2009, 12:03 PM
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Before we go off on too many tangents on knuckle tattoos and full face tattoos. The tattoo in the article is...

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six inches of lettering running across his right biceps
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 45DAVID1 View Post
I disagree with you. Most military jobs aren't to go out and kill people. Most if not all have some training to a ceratin degree to kill someone but that is not their main function. My main function in the AF is to support the pilots who go out and bomb mother F'ers who deserve to die. I have several tattoos on my legs, arms, shoulders, stomach, back, chest, etc... but I keep them covered. Part of being in the military is mainitaining a professional looking appearance. I don't have a problem with guys and gals going and getting tattoos to show where they have been, what branch they are in, and as momentos of military service. It's their right to do so but I do believe they should show them off on their own time. Once that uniform goes on it's time to show respect to the uniform and the country you serve in. Cover em up or get out.
it was a tongue and cheek comment used to make a bigger point - I am sure you got my bigger point?

I think this is a bit much to say though "Once that uniform goes on it's time to show respect to the uniform and the country you serve in. Cover em up or get out." - in the big picture view nothing disrespectful about visible tattoos and military uniforms. (yes, you could say a tattoo of a swastika would be an issue and I would agree, I am talking about big picture view for the masses in the military with tattoos). somehow, someway in the past, the people that made the foundation for the military today as you know it had and functioned with exposed tattoo's from day 1. no doubt some of the best minds in any branch of the service have them, they are visible, and it does not detract in 1 single way. AND, they are the ones that created that mystique and allure of professionalism that we have all come to know - and did it with tattoos of all kinds.

I fully understand their goal in this, but it is 1 more small freedom a military person has - what they do to their bodies - that the military wants further say in all in the name of creating a visual persona. but yet, they give them the greatest power one can have as a man - the ability to kill in time of war - but waste time on petty issues like this. As well... the military has MUCH greater issues internally to fret about than BS like this.. IMHO.

As well, who decides the value of a tattoo? A 6" tattoo in writing on a bicep is/can be better than a crappy military tattoo on a forearm that is more visible.

one final comment - you can best rest assured, if they did not have enough men/women in the military, as it was a few years ago as compared to today where the Marines, for example, had filled their quota faster then ever and are turning people away, they would damn well take you with tattoos exposed or not. Then, this seemingly arbitrary rule would mean nothing.
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  #23  
Old 12-02-2009, 12:34 PM
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I tried enlisting in the Marine Corps but was told not a chance as soon as they saw i had full sleeves
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 45DAVID1 View Post
So, should the military allow people with facial tattoos to be the new poster children for our countries future? Should we allow them to be representatives for our country with full sleeves? Every single person who puts on a uniform in the .mil is basically an international representative our our country. Performance + appearance is what matters.
yes. period.

thy can do just as good of a job as you. heck, you admitted to have a ton of them, but some how, your better off in your mind since you cover up... at least that is how you come across... since yours are "covered". who cares. it makes you no better than them.

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Performance + appearance is what matters.
bull... your giving way to much weight to the value of appearance. heck, to some that have NO tattoos, your ugly. your appearance is lacking. you are a stigma. you have issue since you have them. but somehow, again, you are able to have them and turn to others that have them and have them more exposed then yours and call them out for doing so and act as though their appearance is that critical. so placement makes all the difference? I think not. your desire of placing them in ways you can cover them is no better than those that do not. but you believe so.

let me give you a quick example.. I have a few tattoos. I have earrings. I have longer hair. my "appearance" may be questionable then to some. BUT what they do now know is that I am one of the best duathletes in the USA. All American, 9 US World Championship teams, top rankings in the last few years. I have been in magazines, papers, have sponsors... but in your view, somehow my "appearance" could some sort of effect on my ability to do my job. hog wash. If I was ruled out from participating in my sport because of my "appearance", we would have never found out about the true quality of my performance, despite how I look. I out perform people with cleaner presentations and "appearance" at every race... but what's it matter. it does not.
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:57 PM
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Well, at least he has a trendy tattoo to keep him happy for the rest of his life.
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Old 12-02-2009, 1:29 PM
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https://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/si...hapter%201.asp

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CH 5 c. Tattoos or brands on the head and neck are prohibited.. Sleeve tattoos are likewise prohibited. A sleeve tattoo is a very large tattoo, or a collection of smaller tattoos, that covers or almost covers a person’s entire arm or leg. Half-sleeve or quarter-sleeve tattoos that are visible to the eye when wearing standard physical training gear (t-shirt and shorts) are likewise prohibited. A half-sleeve or quarter-sleeve tattoo is defined as a very large tattoo, or a collection of smaller tattoos that covers, or almost covers the entire portion of an arm or leg above or below the elbow or knee. Tattoos or brands that are prejudicial to good order, discipline and morale, or are of a nature to bring discredit upon the Marine Corps are also prohibited. “Prejudicial to good order, discipline and morale or are of a nature to bring discredit to the Marine Corps” may include, but are not limited to, any tattoo that is sexist, racist, vulgar, anti-American, anti-social, gang related, or extremist group or organization related.



>CH 5 (1) Marines who currently have a sleeve tattoo(s) will be grandfathered. The Marine’s command will insert a photograph(s) of the respective tattoo(s) along with a measurement(s) of the size in inches and of the location(s) on the body and the date the tattoo(s) was documented, on the Page 11 of the Marine’s service record book. The Marine will sign the Page 11 entry verifying the information is correct.



>CH 5 (2) The Deputy Commandant for Manpower and Reserve Affairs (DC M&RA) is designated as the adjudicating authority for any tattoo issue involving retention or special duty assignments. Review of a questionable tattoo(s) will be submitted to DC M&RA (MM) via the reenlistment, extension, lateral move system (RELMS). The package will include a photograph(s) of the tattoo(s), measurement(s) of the size in inches, description of the location(s) and explanation as to why the tattoo(s) has been deemed questionable by the commander. MARADMIN 198/07
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Old 12-02-2009, 1:32 PM
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Think before you ink.
This is so true, even for people not in the military. There is a lot of crappy looking stuff out there.

Keeps the cosmetic removal businesses doing well.
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Old 12-02-2009, 1:46 PM
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To everyone who thinks the tattoo is okay....Imaging getting pulled over by a cop and he had sleeves on his arms with a bunch of tats. Regardless of how good he might be, it leaves a bad taste. Does not look presentable. Makes the Dept look like a bunch of punks...
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Old 12-02-2009, 1:49 PM
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The tattoo is just his first name in hebrew, six inches of lettering running across his right biceps
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Old 12-02-2009, 1:55 PM
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I think before I ink...and it is about location. I've gotten 2 more tatts in the last 6 months, both on my forearms. One of the left, one on the right. They are within regs, so I got them. Now...if they go and change the regs...they can go f*** themselves. I got them, they're staying.

Just for clarification, on my left forearm is my daughters name and birthdate. Going through a pretty sh1tty custoday battle right now, so it is near and dear to my heart.
On my right wrist is the word "Serenity". It is a reminder to me that I don't have control over other peoples actions and I can only control my own. I got it after I was released from the psych unit at Balboa Naval Hospital after a week long venture through a very depressive/suicide watch episode.

So...go ahead and knock them, DILLIGAF?

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Old 12-02-2009, 2:26 PM
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The Marine Corps doesn't allow new sleeves. But I think that's only if they cover the entire arm... not sure.

Oh to be in the good ole day's when branding was standard
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Old 12-03-2009, 7:11 PM
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Wow. There are people that I joined the army with that have tattoos all over.
Yea that's the Army. The AF is and can be more picky. The recruiters barley have to lift a finger to meet their quotas (Transformers does all the work for them). If the Army could afford to do it, the tattoo policy that is, they would too. On a side note, personally I think tattoos are tacky, and unprofessional.
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Old 12-03-2009, 7:14 PM
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The Marine Corps doesn't allow new sleeves. But I think that's only if they cover the entire arm... not sure.

Oh to be in the good ole day's when branding was standard
I've been told it's tattoo that can be seen below a short sleeve shirt, not just sleeve tattoos... so if you have ink they put the picture of it in your file and if get more, well not sure what's the charge. at least that's what I've been told
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Old 12-06-2009, 6:00 PM
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USAF changed their tattoo policy after the negative publicity.
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Old 12-06-2009, 6:59 PM
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Regardless of how good he might be, it leaves a bad taste. Does not look presentable. Makes the Dept look like a bunch of punks...
What you are failing to realize here is that this is YOUR opinion. I'm not saying that you are the only one that thinks this way, but realistically YOUR opinion is NOT shared by the entire world.

MY job performance has nothing to do with YOUR opinion.

I have logged around 100 hours under the tattoo needle. I know people judge me because of them. Thats fine. I accept that. If people are so narrow-minded that they can't see past ink on my skin thats their problem.

Just my .02
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Old 12-06-2009, 7:16 PM
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Its all good, The guy is going to have them removed and he will try again. Hebrew? I thought it was Kanji.



vinz
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Old 12-06-2009, 8:20 PM
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What you are failing to realize here is that this is YOUR opinion. I'm not saying that you are the only one that thinks this way, but realistically YOUR opinion is NOT shared by the entire world.

MY job performance has nothing to do with YOUR opinion.

I have logged around 100 hours under the tattoo needle. I know people judge me because of them. Thats fine. I accept that. If people are so narrow-minded that they can't see past ink on my skin thats their problem.

Just my .02
Thats the problem. The average joe is narrow minded and WILL base theyre impression upon the appearence. Tattoo's are not proffessional. No if's ands or but's about it. People will not respect someone whos tatted up like they would someone with a generally "normal" appearence. Thats why this society is crumbling..People and theyre whiney, sniveling "Im just expressing myself"..Cry me a river. Just like Law Enforcement and theyre "no tattoo" policy..(Thank goodness btw) How the hell does one expect people to respect and deal with a "professional" who looks like the banger hes arresting? There are certain proffessions where visible tattoos just arent appropriate. If that individual really wants to join the service then he can abide by the same standards as the rest of us and get them removed..Too easy.
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  #38  
Old 12-06-2009, 8:55 PM
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DREADNOUGHT78 DREADNOUGHT78 is offline
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I will be going into the Army and I have both arms fully sleeved I had to get waivers and write a story for each one. I know that tattooes are a definate no-go for the USMC had a friend who was a grad. from Sac State get turned down for a tattoo and another who got both his arms done after getting back from Iraq. He went to re-up and was told nope!
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  #39  
Old 12-06-2009, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by EBWhite View Post
Tattoos on lower arm looks like trash IMO. LEO are not suppose to those these, makes the image look bad. I agree with this. Either cover it or find another line of work.
I have tattoos on my forearms. So I should take my 9 years of service, hundreds of thousands of dollars in training, two deployments and go elsewhere because you think having ink on my body makes me unprofessional?

Check out my NCOERs (Non-Commissioned Officer Evaluation Reports) and see what they say about my professionalism

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Originally Posted by 45DAVID1 View Post
Maybe he should have asked the question about tattoos and policies. All of us in the military know that the recruiters will only tell us what we ask about. Ignorance is no excuse. Besides, why would you get your own first name tattooed on your arm? Is he that stupid to forget his own name? If so he should join the ARMY and not the AF...lol
That would be the Marines

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To everyone who thinks the tattoo is okay....Imaging getting pulled over by a cop and he had sleeves on his arms with a bunch of tats. Regardless of how good he might be, it leaves a bad taste. Does not look presentable. Makes the Dept look like a bunch of punks...
So having tattoos makes soldiers/cops look like punks? I am glad you are here, because of your opinion we can modify everyone's looks.

My tattoos are not visible while in uniform per the standard.


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Originally Posted by Swatguy10_15 View Post
Thats the problem. The average joe is narrow minded and WILL base theyre impression upon the appearence. Tattoo's are not proffessional. No if's ands or but's about it. People will not respect someone whos tatted up like they would someone with a generally "normal" appearence. Thats why this society is crumbling..People and theyre whiney, sniveling "Im just expressing myself"..Cry me a river. Just like Law Enforcement and theyre "no tattoo" policy..(Thank goodness btw) How the hell does one expect people to respect and deal with a "professional" who looks like the banger hes arresting? There are certain proffessions where visible tattoos just arent appropriate. If that individual really wants to join the service then he can abide by the same standards as the rest of us and get them removed..Too easy.

So if I have tattoos that don't show while in uniform and the performance of my duties...you still have a problem with it?
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Old 12-06-2009, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swatguy10_15 View Post
Thats the problem. The average joe is narrow minded and WILL base theyre impression upon the appearence. Tattoo's are not proffessional. No if's ands or but's about it. People will not respect someone whos tatted up like they would someone with a generally "normal" appearence. Thats why this society is crumbling..People and theyre whiney, sniveling "Im just expressing myself"..Cry me a river. Just like Law Enforcement and theyre "no tattoo" policy..(Thank goodness btw) How the hell does one expect people to respect and deal with a "professional" who looks like the banger hes arresting? There are certain proffessions where visible tattoos just arent appropriate. If that individual really wants to join the service then he can abide by the same standards as the rest of us and get them removed..Too easy.
Have to disagree with you brother. I have owned my own business for a while now and have no problems at all with tattooes. Even the smallest of old ladies are not scared or judgemental. I have done repairs for U.S. Marshall's office,G.S.A, Department of Homeland Security Sac. P.D. Sac. Sherrif and C.H.P. The CA public is so much more acceptible to ink nowadays. The only people I was ever worried about when I first started getting blasted was LE. But after a while I learned that 98% of them can take a look at a guy and his ink and tell whether or not its prison or street. And I have never had a problem with them either.I was pulled over by a Rancho Cordova MC P.O. and he had crazier sleeves than me walked up to my car and instead of asking me for my info we ended up BSing about tattooes.Tattooes or not I respected the badge and the officer wearing it.And I have alot of tattooes and don't look like a "banger"

The only time I ever had any problem being tattooed was when I went into the Marine Corps. recruiters office and had them ask me what the red white and blue tattoo on the back of my arm meant. I said are you retarded?I then said BMX! He asked then is that a gang? I said are you ****in serious? I heard enough and left.Oh and I did have to get my Pinups boobs covered up to get into the Army.But thats about it!

And there is nothing easy about getting tattooes removed.
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