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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are. |
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#41
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I disagree. If I were to have instead said "What does it matter if I've served in both Afghanistan and Iraq", would the underlying logic of my argument have changed? I'm trying to point out that the focus of this war is not on finding the enemy and killing him. Indeed, if anything, when it comes to winning in both Afghanistan and Iraq, we seem to have to score victories over ourselves first. We have met the enemy, and he is us, as they say.
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Too often people think that "My mission is to escort a convoy from Base A to Base B to deliver fuel" or "My mission is to conduct a cordon/search of this house in order to capture a HVT", or whatever their particular assignment that day happened to be, and think that's the be-all and end-all. If they achieve their task for the day and return home alive, then that's mission complete for them. Unfortunately, there's more to it than that. Ultimately, the mission is not to just get fuel from A to B, or cordon a house, or whatever. It's to win the war in Afghanistan or Iraq. What people seem to keep forgetting is that higher purpose, and they are instead focused on the 25m target, even if it's to the detrement of the larger goal. Yet there is a reason that the intent two levels higher is part of an OpOrder. Quote:
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Quoting FM 3-24, "sometimes the more you protect yourself, the less safe you are." Eventually you need to come down from the high ready. Quote:
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NTM Last edited by Manic Moran; 12-10-2009 at 11:12 AM.. |
#42
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ok what is your point? the only thing i see is that you are complaining about a patch and how we look more than anything. so please elighten us and those in Afghanistan serving there allready. Quote:
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oh really! i disagree. there are times when we do get engaged and frankley i don't blame them for not directly engaging US forces. it's lose lose situation for them almost everytime. yes there are many aspects to our jobs and killing the SOB's is on the list. i ask what is our focus? Quote:
i also agree that we will never be able to destroy the enemy completely but why not oblige them and kill them when we can. they want to die so kill them. yes there will be more of them. oh well. but we cannot withdraw from this. it will only embolden them to continue. Quote:
continued in next post.
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http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A contact the governor https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend. NRA Life Member. |
#43
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from previous post.
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i never said it was going to be safe. there is inherit danger in this war. all you can do is try to minimize it and implement controls. ie "Risk Management". heck i made it a priority not to get killed. no one really sets out to go get killed that day. Quote:
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also have you had to use the current ROE? as you have evaded to answer the basic question i asked before and again in this thread. have you been there or are you there now. OPSEC applies your location in country need not be posted. i have not seen but heard about the current ROE and it is a disaster. come on cannot call in CAS because you might have collateral damage. yes it happens but where is the priority in that? US personell getting killed instead of civilians. COB's are a problem in the current war we are fighting and they are in any conflict. yes you can minimize them but not eliminate them. if it's between saving US lives and COBs getting killed i prefer the later. also the Taliban and Al-Qaida will use this ROE to their adavantage and it will put US personell at risk. i also disagree with the general public having access to the ROE if the public can read so can the Taliban or Al-Qaida. it will be exploited at our expense. again i have not seen nor have any idea where to look it up. post the link since you support it. the ROE is not issued out to everyone in the military.
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http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A contact the governor https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend. NRA Life Member. |
#44
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We can keep killing Taliban or Al Qaeda until the cows come home, but until the Afghan government is capable of actually running the country (and that means everything, the security services, healthcare, infrastructure, legal system) and is accepted by the population as their government, we won't be mission successful. The same in Iraq. I'm sure that there are more people the US military could find to kill, but our departure is not predicated on body counts or statements of surrender from the enemy. Quote:
(Cont) Last edited by Manic Moran; 12-11-2009 at 11:53 AM.. |
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NTM |
#47
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You should not wear this particular patch when leaving the wire, for obvious reasons. To me, this is common sense. I am not saying you cannot wear it, but Murphy's Law applies. Any responsible squad/section leader would tell you to take this off during PCC's and PCI's.
As hard as it is to accept, the way to win these conflicts in the Middle East is not through direct combat and strength of arms, but through politics and public relations. As an infantryman, I know it sucks. Last edited by Grassninja; 12-11-2009 at 1:31 PM.. |
#48
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Yes, the BIG picture is with hearts and minds through politics and public relations. Gain trust and respect of the local pop. This will definitely and does provide great intel. Even if they don't want us there...well we're there anyways so why not get the votes swing. If you're position falls within that then leave the patch alone.
For those who exit the wire daily to embrace the suck by drawing fire....well...enjoy the patch. Nothing like standing over haji bleeding out so he can see that a pork eating crusader sent him to allah. Politics and bullets....not a good combination. Never has been. Usually if the politics don't work then the bullets speak. Keep your politics...I'll share my bullets, patches, and my pork instead. Those of us who care not what we look like to the enemy are probably not helping the political drive. Those depending on the political aspect on to winning the war...you're not helping us when the bullets fly by *****ing about what we wear to the party. How about a patch that just show a picture without words? Compromise maybe?
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