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  #81  
Old 03-03-2010, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by toadman View Post
Google Stacy Lim. She was an LAPD offduty officer who was shot in the heart
at contact distance with a .357 Magnum. She manged to draw her weapon & fire multiple times, killing her attacker before collapsing. She survived.
She was able to draw her weapon & hit a moving target with all 4 of her shots AFTER being shot through the heart with a .357. Although flat-lining 3 times she survived & returned to duty 8 months later. Amazing story.
Wow!

Here's the LAPD site that gives her story (have to scroll down some): http://www.lapdonline.org/inside_the...sic_view/27327
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  #82  
Old 03-03-2010, 4:15 PM
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This was a good read. I think the biggest point that I took from this story is this:
The defensive shooter, was a highly practiced gun store and shooting range employee who regularly practiced with his firearm; and when the time came, he landed only 50% of his rounds fired, and the size of the round, style of the bullet, and make of the gun appear to be inconsequential. So for all of the debates on the internet about one caliber vs. another, or auto vs. revolver, etc; it doesn't matter. Take what you have (if your shopping get something that you will likely practice with a lot) and shoot it as much as possible. Learn defensive techniques and practice them.

This also brings up a good point. The indoor ranges I visit all state "No Rapid Fire"; does that include double taps. I guess it is a better question for a range master at the range I would be visiting.

I love stories with a good ending, thanks for sharing.
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  #83  
Old 03-03-2010, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by laabstract View Post
I have talked with vietnam vets about the 1911 and have been told stories of people surviving after getting shot 7 times. This is why shot placement is so important.
There are three important points to remember when dealing with a live target: 1st - Shot placement; 2nd - Shot placement, and; 3rd - Shot placement.

One of my firearm instructors was Chicago LEO with 20+ years in service. He shared photos of a bad guy that was shot multiple times with .45ACP and continued to return fire until he stopped one with his head.
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  #84  
Old 03-03-2010, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rugerdaddy View Post
From a 1999 article about an incident in Santa Clara........



Does anyone remember this incident? Is it true that this guy was hit in the chest several times with a .45 and still survived? Or, is this another of many cases where the press gets a story completely screwed up?
I remember the incident well.

There are no such thing as a "magic" handgun bullet.
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  #85  
Old 03-03-2010, 4:30 PM
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What a story. I do like the fact that just a few days ago some internet tough guy was arguing with QBG about self defense. It's funny when people really do have experience and what their take is on things.

Great job with your training, glad you were there, and sorry for the stress and I'm sure mental strain it caused you and your family. No one should have to think about their wife while a bad guy holds a gun to their back.
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  #86  
Old 03-03-2010, 4:59 PM
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Handgun bullets suck to get shot with. That is why soldiers use rifles and not pistols. We did a case study in one of my LE classes in college about a guy on PCP who got shot 20-25 times with various flavors of 9mm/.45 and 1 12g slug. The second slug only drpped him because it severed his spine. He still fought getting handcuffs. You never know what the body may do.

QBG had the best weapon of all Mindset, more power to him and a respect for one that has been there. Hopefully I never will be.
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  #87  
Old 03-03-2010, 6:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sniper5 View Post
Wow, this thread brings back memories. I'm the paramedic who kept the perp alive.

You did your job and from what I heard it was pretty good work. Man that was a messed up night.
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  #88  
Old 03-03-2010, 6:49 PM
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QBG,
One of your posts you mentioned hoping to get your gun back soon. Did you? How long was it gone, and why the heck did they take it to begin with? I'm assuming that it's SOP, I wonder if that holds true with a LEO shoot?
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  #89  
Old 03-03-2010, 6:54 PM
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I did indeed get my Glock back; took about 3 years from when they impounded it. The Assistant DA explained that it took that long because he wanted to have all the evidence on hand until all the appeals ran out, just for CYA. Seriously this guy (the prosecuting ADA) was vicious; he got 13 out of 14 felony convictions on the bad guy and said he would have charged him for littering the parking lot with his own blood if he could have.
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  #90  
Old 03-03-2010, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
Seriously this guy (the prosecuting ADA) was vicious; he got 13 out of 14 felony convictions on the bad guy and said he would have charged him for littering the parking lot with his own blood if he could have.
That's awesome. I'm glad someone fought as hard for you as you did for all the lives you ended up saving.
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  #91  
Old 03-03-2010, 8:15 PM
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I miscounted; it was 14 out of 15 felonies.
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/Chris

I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.

You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Farmers.
Who else?
Farmers' mums.
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  #92  
Old 03-03-2010, 8:22 PM
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I saw, in person, a guy shot three times with a .40sw, trying to kill cops, in the center of mass area, and lived. One hit his spine, one his liver and one in the heart. Thanks Stanford ER for saving his life. Hopefully he wont try it again.
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  #93  
Old 03-03-2010, 8:37 PM
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QBC,

This is a stunning story, and the first I've heard of it. You win the real Darwin award...you've proved that your genes deserve to be passed on.

BTW, did you ever get your G30 back, and (if so) how long did it take?
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  #94  
Old 03-03-2010, 8:46 PM
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^see post above; about 3 years to get the G30 back. By which time I had replaced it... with another G30 set up the exact same way; I figured it worked once, why mess with it?
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I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.

You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Farmers.
Who else?
Farmers' mums.
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  #95  
Old 03-03-2010, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper5 View Post
Wow, this thread brings back memories. I'm the paramedic who kept the perp alive.
Weird stuff.
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  #96  
Old 03-03-2010, 9:25 PM
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^seriously. It's a small world...
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/Chris

I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.

You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Farmers.
Who else?
Farmers' mums.
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  #97  
Old 03-03-2010, 9:30 PM
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Hey Quarter, ever fired your gun in the air and yelled, 'Aaaaaaah?'
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  #98  
Old 03-03-2010, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmzhwells View Post
I saw, in person, a guy shot three times with a .40sw, trying to kill cops, in the center of mass area, and lived. One hit his spine, one his liver and one in the heart. Thanks Stanford ER for saving his life. Hopefully he wont try it again.
ER surgeons need to practice on somebody, don't they?
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  #99  
Old 03-03-2010, 10:32 PM
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Must of been an old tired .45 could happen to any gun, get over it.
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  #100  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
^see post above; about 3 years to get the G30 back. By which time I had replaced it... with another G30 set up the exact same way; I figured it worked once, why mess with it?

Do you still have the gun? Do you keep it mixed in with your others, or keep it separate somehow as the one that got "used?" Do you still carry it?
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  #101  
Old 03-04-2010, 12:19 AM
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Wow, just heard this story for the first time. Quarter, you have heard this plenty I'm sure, but your actions allowed for a perfect case against the BG. Had you acted earlier, or finished him off, who knows what kind of BS litigation you would have had to deal with. Perfect situational awareness IMO. Glad to have folks like you around.

I also think that letting him live was worse punishment as he wanted to die anyways. You saved not only the lives of your coworkers, but also countless patrons of the club he was planning to attack. And as a bonus, he has to stay alive and deal with all the things he was trying to escape, with the bonus of prison life. Win/win in my book.
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  #102  
Old 03-04-2010, 12:20 AM
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You should have custom engraving done on the the slide of a Glock, "Lifesaver" and pass down to your kids.

What a story.
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  #103  
Old 03-04-2010, 1:30 AM
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qbg, you did the smart professional thing. a hero in mybook
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  #104  
Old 03-04-2010, 2:39 AM
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Quarterbore is a damn good hero in my book...Saving 3 lives and possibly 50+.........+1 for the Good Guys. It's stories like these that gungrabbers Hate to read about in the papers. If it wasn't for Quaterbore and his Glock, There'd be a whole different ending to this story.......We'd NEVER get know who Quarterbore was.
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  #105  
Old 03-04-2010, 5:59 AM
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Thanks QBG,

Because of HIPPA I can't go into much detail, but it would be covered in the police report that he was shot once, with an entrance and exit (which may be where the confusion comes from) and he did not need to be defibrillated enroute. It's amazing to read some of the accounts and not even recognize them. Lot of urban legend stuff going on. But in my career so far I have seen numerous people shot multiple times with rounds from every size and description of weapon up to and including .308s to the torso that were not only alive but awake and talking on arrival at hospitals and some so combative they had to be chemically paralyzed in order to work on them. Some didn't make it eventually, some did. Unless the bullet disrupts vital nerve centers by hitting the brain or spine, or severs a major artery or punctures the heart (and we've saved a couple of those too) or causes a MASSIVE pneumo or hemo-thorax to the point that the heart, great vessels, and breathing are disrupted the person will not be stopped immediately unless he chooses to stop (falls down and screams "you shot me, I'm dying" or some such thing). Oh, lots of them die later. From infection, renal shutdown, or DIC. Hours later, or days, or even weeks. Bullets don't knock people down, they punch holes. The bigger the better, and the deeper the better (within reason), but still a hole. Terminal ballistics is all about physics and anatomy, there is no magic. Hit something really important and punch a big enough hole or enough of them and they go down. Don't, and they won't. It's really simpler than people would like it to be. I don't have a piece of paper saying I'm an "expert" (whatever that is), but I've got 25 years as a medic with all of it in the field in a busy urban EMS system and 7 years working in a trauma center and know what I've seen and followed up on and learned and what works and doesn't.

I'm sure lots of experts will disagree.

Last edited by sniper5; 03-04-2010 at 6:02 AM.. Reason: Clarifying extent of lung damage
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  #106  
Old 03-04-2010, 6:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper5 View Post
Wow, this thread brings back memories. I'm the paramedic who kept the perp alive.
WOW! First, thanks for doing your job - even if it was on the perp, I am certain you do just as good of a job on anyone and everyone regardless of who they are. Kudos to you for this.

Second - it was mere chance that you responded that night but it appears that you are pro-gun?

Turby
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  #107  
Old 03-04-2010, 6:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laabstract View Post
I have talked with vietnam vets about the 1911 and have been told stories of people surviving after getting shot 7 times. This is why shot placement is so important.
This is why capacity is more important than stopping power.
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  #108  
Old 03-04-2010, 6:36 AM
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Oh, BTW, nice to hear you are doing well after all these years QBG. The last time I saw you I believe you were face down in the parking lot in front of the entrance door with a few SCPD officers pointing shotguns at your back. There were several proned out and I figured one of them was you.

One of the officers that talked to you came out and said that you were pretty "tore up about it". Glad to hear that you seem to have put it in it's place and moved on. The fact that it bothered you means you are one of the good guys.

Oh, and I went back and read your account. I thought the damage to the arm was from the round that hit the chest passing through it and couldn't quite figure out why it didn't expand before it hit the chest. I didn't know until I read this that it was a second hit. All I heard at scene was that he had a 9mm and thought he had his arms extended with a handgun and the round had gone up the arm into the chest. I knew the round he was hit with was probably a .45 or something in that class and hadn't expanded when I saw the exit. I knew he survived but never really followed up on the story.
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  #109  
Old 03-04-2010, 6:40 AM
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Turby,

Thanks. And yes, I fix broken humans, whoever they are. I let the courts decide who the good guys and bad guys are. And I am VERY much pro-gun. And this story is a good reason why. I like the sheep dogs to keep their teeth.
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  #110  
Old 03-04-2010, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by socalshooting View Post
This is why capacity is more important than stopping power.
Unfortunately, unless you have pre-bans, you will be limited to 10.
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  #111  
Old 03-04-2010, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugerdaddy View Post
From a 1999 article about an incident in Santa Clara........



Does anyone remember this incident? Is it true that this guy was hit in the chest several times with a .45 and still survived? Or, is this another of many cases where the press gets a story completely screwed up?
there was an Xray of a guy that was shot 6 times with Gold Dots 45ACP
and had to be shot again with .223 several times.

I always scratch my head when I hear " a 45 ACP would knock him on his *** even if you shot him in the finger" the same guy would take a 22LR round through the heart and die before he hit's the floor.
Shot placement!
shot placement!
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  #112  
Old 03-04-2010, 6:20 PM
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Wasn't too long ago I was standing next to a guy who was being shown an x-ray of his head with a bullet in the .40-.45 class embedded between the hemispheres after he had been shot while the surgeon explained his options to him. He was awake, and lucid, and retained memory of the event, and his only complaint at the time was a headache. If someone would have told me that could happen I would have said they were nuts. Just happened to miss the vital stuff and slide between the two halves. One in a million. If he told me a lottery number, I think I'd put a dollar on it.
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  #113  
Old 03-04-2010, 6:33 PM
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Gunshot wounds are strange magic at times. I have seen people who didn't survive a shot to the arm because the bullet hit the humerous causing it to splinter piercing the brachial artery causing a bleedout, and has Sniper5 said, people surviving gunshots to the head. Seen a guy take a 9mm HP low on the left lung and run for 50 yds spewing pink foam before being tackled. Seen a gutshot drop a victim. The only thing I think would be a 100% stopper is a 40mm HHE round to the chest.

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  #114  
Old 03-04-2010, 7:18 PM
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Wow. And to get accounts from 2 people involved in two different aspects of the same story. Just wow.
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  #115  
Old 03-04-2010, 7:30 PM
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Thank you for sharing your story QBG and I am extremely glad to read that things turned out ok for you. I am sorry that you had to go through the aftermath of it, whatever that may have been for you and your family. I am sure there are at least two other families out there that could not thank you enough. But for what it's worth, thank you from this nameless internet forums guy here.

Thanks also to you sniper5. I did 10 years of clinical in a hospital (ED then Cardiac Surgery and ending in the ICU before I bought a desk and a computer) and have seen all the major ammo in various stages of in and out of the human body as well and you just never know. When it's fractions of an inch between shock and REALLY pissed off for a few minutes till it catches up to them...

The debate about shot placement seems just silly. Anyone that's really been in these situations I think will confess that you can only train up to a point and after that, it's luck in fractions of an inch. People are not machines and you're simply not going to be able to train to a point of fractions of an inch on variable sized, moving targets with more adrenalin flowing than you've ever experienced before. Sure you're stacking your odds with every extra 100 rounds of current practice and training, but there comes a point where another 10,000 rounds won't gain you that tiny bit between the aorta in the bad guy who's moving and not hitting it.

QBG, I'm a lifelong shooter/hunter and my wait period is up on the first gun I've ever bought intended for carry tomorrow afternoon. It's a Glock 30 to go with my long time trusted 21 which I've had for HD all these years.

Thank you guys for sharing the story as well as doing the right thing under bad conditions.
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  #116  
Old 03-04-2010, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
The last time I saw you I believe you were face down in the parking lot in front of the entrance door with a few SCPD officers pointing shotguns at your back. There were several proned out and I figured one of them was you.
Actually that brings back a funny memory; 'Mary' the cashier was an attractive younger woman, whom got more than her fair share of attention (okay let's be honest; she was... curvy) Since the range is/was about a mile away from SCPD Central Station, we had our fair share of SCPD in there all the time.

I distinctly remember being proned out and a younger SCPD officer saying that he recognized 'Mary' but wasn't sure about me and 'Bob'.

Then we were hustled over the neighboring business's front lawn and I had a case of the shakes.
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I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.

You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Farmers.
Who else?
Farmers' mums.
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  #117  
Old 03-04-2010, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
Absolutely correct; my first hit was just about perfect but not the fight stopper I would have liked; the second hit was messy and put his right arm out of commission, but if I had missed with that shot AND he had the balls/mindset to continue the fight, he very well could have shot me and the others.
Remember even after a round to the chest (nipple!) he got off two rounds (wildly off target thank god) and then managed to run about 60 feet before collapsing.
When someone has the will to live it does not matter how many shots that you shoot. I watched a man at the 800 bock of W MacArthur Blvd in Oakland take 8 AK-47 762x39 rounds to the torso and run down the street to the Arco At West and West Mac. He dialed 911 from the payphone and lived. Maybe it was his will to live... Maybe it was the heroin he was on...
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:23 PM
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Wow, I just spent over an hour reading this entire thread. Amazing.
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Old 03-05-2010, 5:08 AM
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Yeah, I know. I get a weird vibe, in a good way. QBG and I crossed each other's lives and by random chance connect years later. I feel like the scenes from Deadliest Catch where they sit around a table and comment on flashbacks from the years scenes: "I didn't know you were thinking. . ." and "If I would have known that. . ." The interesting thing is that it didn't make major news (I have my own thoughts on why). But hearing now about his mindset this could have become a HUGE incident (Columbine size) if he had made good his plan. WOW. And then you wonder how many times things like this have played out across the country and because a mass murder was prevented, we never knew about it.
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Old 03-05-2010, 6:04 AM
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liketoshoot liketoshoot is offline
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Yeah, I know. I get a weird vibe, in a good way. QBG and I crossed each other's lives and by random chance connect years later. I feel like the scenes from Deadliest Catch where they sit around a table and comment on flashbacks from the years scenes: "I didn't know you were thinking. . ." and "If I would have known that. . ." The interesting thing is that it didn't make major news (I have my own thoughts on why). But hearing now about his mindset this could have become a HUGE incident (Columbine size) if he had made good his plan. WOW. And then you wonder how many times things like this have played out across the country and because a mass murder was prevented, we never knew about it.
Exactly! The news does not give the full story and even does not report some at all.
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