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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #121  
Old 08-17-2014, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DJNotNice View Post
I had one for a drunk tank almost 8 years ago now. I was 21 at the time, It seem utterly irrelevant to my "good moral character" of who I am today. My appeal spoke of my good character from 7 different people accounts and I don't think the sheriff could use that reason anymore so they basically just said no with no reasoning to back it up.
Any drug or alcohol charges will pretty much ruin chances in Sacramento. Honestly 8 years isn't that much time, all things considered. Give it another run in a few years. However if this was a charge they discovered on their own (if you didn't disclose during interview) then you're probably SOL regardless.
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  #122  
Old 08-17-2014, 7:13 PM
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Well, I didn't know it was a arrest till the interview but when the deputy asked me about it I told that I didn't even know I had an arrest, because I honestly didn't know. I then explained everything to him. In my defense I was only taken to the drunk tank because I was in the company of someone who was acting like a jackass. I swear I get the worst of luck.
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  #123  
Old 08-17-2014, 7:18 PM
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That's where you got clipped. As soon as they saw it in the records and not directly from you voluntarily, it was game over. Sorry dude.
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  #124  
Old 08-17-2014, 7:34 PM
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I can see that being true, however its not like I didn't disclose information when It was asked of me. It was an honest mistake from someone who otherwise has a clean record. Even if it was the reason they withheld my ccw its still unjust. Do you think there is a chance I can apply later and get approved? Also they didn't decline me for that, Unless they qualify that as having poor moral character...which isn't. I was never informed that I was arrested or read my rights back 8 years ago....

Last edited by DJNotNice; 08-17-2014 at 7:48 PM..
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  #125  
Old 08-17-2014, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DJNotNice View Post
I can see that being true, however its not like I didn't disclose information when It was asked of me. It was an honest mistake from someone who otherwise has a clean record. Even if it was the reason they withheld my ccw its still unjust. Do you think there is a chance I can apply later and get approved? Also they didn't decline me for that, Unless they qualify that as having poor moral character...which isn't. I was never informed that I was arrested or read my rights back 8 years ago....
Welllllll....if police take you into custody and process you into a drunk tank, I'd definitely consider that an arrest. Truth is, it sounds like Sheriff Jones is taking a very firm line with any violations involving alcohol, drugs, and violence. Almost every denial I've heard of has involved either DUI or DIP at some point. I wish I could shed more light, but I got my permit without any obstacles to deal with, so I just don't have the info. Just know that their background check, as well as the FBI and DOJ check with pull up literally any interaction with the police that the arresting jurisdiction reports. During my interview, I remember the first detective asking me "have you every been cuffed, put in a police car, or brought to a police station before?" I've even heard of minor "detainments" showing up on background checks. Pretty intense vetting. Can't hurt to try again in a couple years...just stay away from trouble!
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  #126  
Old 08-17-2014, 9:20 PM
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Yea sounds like a plan, the only time I've ever been in cuff's ever was that drunk tank. Ive talked to the police several times but I was never the subject of their presence. Maybe ill wait till a new sheriff gets elected, this one seem pretty judgy on anyone with those types of arrests even if they were a long time ago. Im definitely going to get a full criminal history report next time though. Also the only thing the depute asked me about was that 1 arrest I wasnt aware existed so im not sure what else actually showed up on the back ground check, feel like he would have asked me about it if he saw it.....Do you know if the background check I get will be the same one that the sheriff Dept see's?

Thanks for the info
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  #127  
Old 08-18-2014, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DJNotNice View Post
Yea sounds like a plan, the only time I've ever been in cuff's ever was that drunk tank. Ive talked to the police several times but I was never the subject of their presence. Maybe ill wait till a new sheriff gets elected, this one seem pretty judgy on anyone with those types of arrests even if they were a long time ago. Im definitely going to get a full criminal history report next time though. Also the only thing the depute asked me about was that 1 arrest I wasnt aware existed so im not sure what else actually showed up on the back ground check, feel like he would have asked me about it if he saw it.....Do you know if the background check I get will be the same one that the sheriff Dept see's?

Thanks for the info
If you get a copy of your live scan, I'm pretty sure it will have any and all possible incidents that could show up in a background check. I'm not sure that our local PD or Sheriff has any more or less access.
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  #128  
Old 08-18-2014, 5:17 PM
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I just submitted a DOJ live scan an hour ago. Guess ill play the waiting game now...I'm gonna try to get that one record expunged now. But something is bothering me, the depute asked me if I've had any record expunged...Do you have to answer that? I mean if you do what's the point of having them expunged? Also since they have record of my first application with the one arrest record on it will it affect me if I reapply in a year or so?
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  #129  
Old 08-18-2014, 6:47 PM
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You need to be 100% honest with the deputy, no matter what. Expunged convictions can still show up on background checks.

With regards to your previous arrest and denied ccw, you will have to disclose this on any future applications. There's a whole "have you been denied a ccw" part on the application. At this point, full honesty and disclosure will be your best and only chance.

Honestly, you've already appealed and lost, so I'd just put the whole thing on the shelf for a while. Doesn't look like it's in your cards for a while...at least not in Cali.
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  #130  
Old 08-18-2014, 6:56 PM
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I have never been convicted of anything so im not sure about expunged arrests....I was 100% honest to the best of my knowledge which is what really gets me.....Man, this is really discouraging. Maybe ill try in a few years if things become shall issue. Honestly think about moving to Texas or Nevada, I really hate being treated like a criminal for no reason.
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  #131  
Old 09-10-2014, 8:38 PM
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I was denied after my appeal as well. I was 100% honest to the point where I told them I take prozac cause it was prescribed to me years ago for anxiety. Which to me felt more like stress. But whatever. They denied me. Saying I wasn't fit. The funny part is. I bet half the force is on some kind of antidepressants. But I will not let that stop me. I had 8 letters of recommendation for all kinds of people. Liberals who do t even like guns, to my a fire arms instructor who knows sheriff Scott Jones personally. Yet I was still denied. They wanted a letter from my Dr basically saying I'm not crazy. But since kaiser is just there to make money and push pills on you. They told me that's not there job. It all comes down to liability. No one wants to be liabile for your actions. Which I get. But I am liabile for my actions and I am the type of person who can openly admit when I am wrong. Although in my denial letter. They stated I am still allowed to own an posses fire arms in my house and place of work. Which I found pretty funny. I will just keep trying. Unless I move to a differet county. Yes it was my fault for saying something about me taking a certain medication. But that's what GMC is. Honesty. Which I have been told that sometimes I am a little too honest. Oh well. Life goes on.
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  #132  
Old 09-13-2014, 8:11 AM
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Received my response to my appeal letter, big surprise it was denied. I hold an exposed firearm permit as well as certification for other less than lethal implements. Sacramento county needs to get it together. If I am denied from exercising my rights, then at least give me an ACTUAL reason.
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  #133  
Old 09-13-2014, 9:31 AM
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Did you disclose this mayhem thing up front even though "the person dropped it," or did they find out from the background check and ask you about it? If it's the latter, then that's the reason right there. If you did disclose, then I guess they figured that whatever you offered in explanation wasn't sufficient. They still have wide latitude on GMC.

One thing I've gleaned from reading threads here over the last few years is that appealing without representation is generally less successful.
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  #134  
Old 11-15-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DJNotNice View Post
I have never been convicted of anything so im not sure about expunged arrests....I was 100% honest to the best of my knowledge which is what really gets me.....Man, this is really discouraging. Maybe ill try in a few years if things become shall issue. Honestly think about moving to Texas or Nevada, I really hate being treated like a criminal for no reason.
I feel your pain.

I was just recently denied due to an arrest with Sac Sheriff I had over 5 years ago for resisting arrest. I showed no violent tendencies nor did I attempt to flee. I hesitated the legality of them placing me in handcuffs due to poor communication on their part, and their response to my actions was tackling me against my car. I spent the night in jail and was later dismissed of the charges due to "Insufficient evidence".

I don't do drugs; I don't drink; and I work with many public agencies such as citrus heights PD, Sacramento PD, CHP and alas the agency I work with the most, Sac Sheriff. While at work, I am constantly interacting with the public as a "peace officer with limited powers" (Armed Security) by patrolling properties and public parks with an exposed firearm (along with many other deescalating tools at my disposal) throughout my assigned district.

I am a first responder to many service calls public agencies are too busy to take and do my best within my powers to resolve issues without escalating them to law enforcement. I have never once needed to draw my weapon because I feel good communication and rapport can diffuse most situations. Unfortunately, not all interactions go over too smoothly, I have been getting a lot of death threats from local Norteno gangs and they have been following our patrol vehicles and stalking our Office. So I figured, maybe its a good time to get a CCW.

I disclosed my arrest during my initial CCW interview and informed them of my accomplishments and changes since then, such as: graduating Sac State with a 4 year degree in criminal Justice and understanding the reasonable suspicion and probable cause laws (which I didn't understand during my arrest), as well as working with the public alongside law enforcement. I have applied to many Departments after my graduation and have been rejected each and every time due to my arrest.

Due to my arrest being 1 month within my 5 year mark, I was advised by my first background investigator to come back in a month and attempt to retry my CCW application, as I will have a foolproof chance of getting passed the Board whom make the decisions. I saved all my paperwork and came back in a month for my second initial CCW interview.

During my interview, I again disclosed my arrest and my changes since the incident. I waited my nearly 30 days and received the denial letter stating "At this time, the Sheriff does not find you to be a good candidate to be a recipient of a concealed weapons permit".

Now, I do not feel I have any special entitlement or rights to a CCW, but I feel the nature of my arrest does not define me as a person, nor should it keep me from advancing in my career field as well as deem me a poor candidate for a CCW (I carry a weapon in public 12 hours a night). It seems to me once you get on Sac County's "**** list" you're going to be living in the shadows for many years to come regardless if you were innocent or guilty of the charge.

My only hopes to have any change at this time are too seek expungement of the arrest because I do not believe the appeal will have any different outcome.

Last edited by 1911GUY; 11-15-2014 at 8:25 PM..
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  #135  
Old 11-15-2014, 7:14 PM
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I work with the most Sac Sheriff. I am constantly interacting with the public as a peace officer figure...
What does this mean?
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  #136  
Old 11-15-2014, 8:28 PM
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I edited what i wrote, perhaps its more clear now
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  #137  
Old 11-16-2014, 12:21 PM
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Your apparent blurring of the line between peace officer and citizen may well be a factor in the denial. You may have passed 832 classes or whatever they're called these days, but you are employed by a private company, right? (Please correct me if that's not the case; the part about public parks makes it hard to know.) If that apparently blurred (I can only go by what you've posted here, and I make no definitive statement about your state of mind regarding that issue, either during your interactions with SSD in your attempt to get an LTC or any other time) line came across in your communications, that factor, especially in light of the arrest, may have tipped the balance.
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  #138  
Old 11-16-2014, 2:24 PM
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During my interview, I never made an ambiguous statement of me being a Peace Officer. I only stated that just now (in conjunction with "with limited powers") because it is a classification the State of California identifies me as while buying firearms when presenting both my Guard card and Firearms permit.

Also, yes, I am employed by a private company, however, we are contracted by the city and counties of sacramento to patrol all parks and recreations as well as respond to reporting person's service calls concerning the locations.
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  #139  
Old 11-16-2014, 4:17 PM
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Okay. However, since they were aware of your employment, any hint of an entitled attitude, whether accurate or not, could have been a factor. I do think that the arrest would probably have been enough on its own.

You can always appeal.
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  #140  
Old 11-16-2014, 6:40 PM
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Wow, it sounds like these "un-American" sheriffs have decided to play games with our Constitution again. The standards for "good moral character" should be LOWER than that applied to LEO's, not HIGHER! We are not charged with interacting with the public and chasing-down criminals. All we are wanting to do is protect ourselves and our loved-ones if threatened. To me it speaks of "arrogance" and "elitism" on their part.

I wonder if the three judges on the 9th court could address this in their final ruling as it points to the same problem of un-justly denying private citizens the right to keep and bare. It seems they just switched from too high a standard of "need" to too high a standard of "character", all with the same violation of denying us our rights. It seems to be at odds with the courts majority written opinion.
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Old 11-16-2014, 6:47 PM
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Clarification; I'm not refering to all sheriffs when I speak of being "un-american", only some of those playing unreasonable games with word definitions such as "good moral character".
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  #142  
Old 11-16-2014, 7:36 PM
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Im not saying I did, but whats wrong with a sense of entitlement? is it not our 2nd amendment right to bare arms which was just recently enforced by the rulings or Peruta v. San Diego?

Whatever the case, it is pretty evident Sac County is still playing the "May" issue policy even though I am not considered a prohibited person.

Persuant to Penal Code section 29800:

People who have been CONVICTED of a felony or certain types of misdemeanors (pc148 is in the list)
people who are addicted to narcotics,
people who lose their gun rights due to a domestic violence conviction, and
people who have been diagnosed as mentally ill

1. I was not convicted of the pc 148 charge which was not even violent.
2. The incident happened over 5 years ago.
3. I have good cause for the ccw (gangsters looking to gun us down on or off duty should be more than sufficient).

I hope the Calguns foundation is reading this because Sac County deserves some special attention.

As for the appeal, I will give it a shot, but it seems pretty bleak at this point.
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  #143  
Old 11-16-2014, 8:06 PM
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My point, 1911, didn't necessarily concern what should be, only what is. Discussing the "should be" in this instance wouldn't be very productive. The people who hold the power see it differently, and that's the context you have to operate within for the time being.

Also, Sac County's settlement concerned GC, not GMC as far as I know. The reason some people here on CalGuns refer to it as "virtual shall issue" is because of the discretion still allowed in determining GMC. That's not likely to change anytime soon.
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  #144  
Old 11-16-2014, 9:02 PM
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How Good moral character is perceived by Sac Sheriff is too narrow in many cases.

PC 148 is categorized by Sac Sheriff as a violent act when in fact a 148 charge can be pursued by an officer for merely being "too slow" to his commands, and in my case it was due to a misunderstanding.

The current CCW policy on circumstances such as pc148 screams Void-for-Overbreadth doctrine.

My good moral character stands as such: no history of violence; no history of drugs or alcohol use and I support Law enforcement and public safety... and I was still denied.

Unfortunately, It is what it is I suppose and I will continue my passion for the career I chose. If not here perhaps another state..

Last edited by 1911GUY; 11-17-2014 at 1:39 AM..
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  #145  
Old 11-16-2014, 9:34 PM
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Let's call them what they are, these sheriffs and AG Harris; american citizens gone rogue. Any government official from a rookie cop to the president of the nation who "openly" defies our Constitution is not worthy to be called "American". This upsets me, sorry.
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  #146  
Old 11-17-2014, 8:17 PM
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My guess would be the resisting arrest charge. Once they see that on paper...poof. Game over. Just a guess.
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  #147  
Old 11-23-2014, 6:57 AM
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i had my interview a few day ago and after reading some of theses comments i asked my gf if she remembered anything about me been handcuffed. we stood there thinking about it for a minute and she remembered we had an incident about 9 or 10 years ago. Cops came to my house put me in handcuffs( they said it was for my safety and their safety) asked what was going on found out nothing was wrong me and my gf had an argument neighbors called the cops. They saw everything was fine and left. Would that hurt my ccw app? I honestly forgot about that time. I guess i'll say good bye to my chance of getting my CCW.

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  #148  
Old 11-23-2014, 12:24 PM
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i had my interview a few day ago and after reading some of theses comments i asked my gf if she remembered anything about me been handcuffed. we stood there thinking about it for a minute and she remembered we had an incident about 9 or 10 years ago. Cops came to my house put me in handcuffs( they said it was for my safety and their safety) asked what was going on found out nothing was wrong me and my gf had an argument neighbors called the cops. They saw everything was fine and left. Would that hurt my ccw app? I honestly forgot about that time. I guess i'll say good bye to my chance of getting my CCW.
Just depends on if and how it was entered into the database. I know of people being temporarily detained by police and still maintaining a clean record. I'd say if you weren't fingerprinted you'll probably be fine, but domestic calls can be kind of "sticky".
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Old 11-23-2014, 1:18 PM
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Thank you.

Last edited by aztecwarrior76; 11-26-2014 at 9:52 AM..
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  #150  
Old 12-18-2014, 8:45 PM
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I am new to calguns and I had my first appointment for ccw in Sacramento county today. I have no convictions and no criminal record. I am an Eagle Scout as well. However I did admit to using marijuana a single time in middle school (2007) and I am now 21 and this was over 7 years ago. Is this grounds for denial based on good moral character? Even if I was honest and it was really only one time?
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  #151  
Old 12-19-2014, 7:07 AM
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I am new to calguns and I had my first appointment for ccw in Sacramento county today. I have no convictions and no criminal record. I am an Eagle Scout as well. However I did admit to using marijuana a single time in middle school (2007) and I am now 21 and this was over 7 years ago. Is this grounds for denial based on good moral character? Even if I was honest and it was really only one time?
Yes it is grounds.....wether or not they will deny you is up to them. You should be honest about everything about yourself that is documented somewhere because if you don't they will find that "documentation". Interpret that as you like.
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Old 12-19-2014, 7:44 AM
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Yes it is grounds.....wether or not they will deny you is up to them. You should be honest about everything about yourself that is documented somewhere because if you don't they will find that "documentation". Interpret that as you like.
I was honest as I didn't want to lie as I am going into law enforcement. There is no arrest or any written record of the use but I know it would have come up if I didn't say yes in this application and then did on my law enforcement application. I have seen others write about their approval for similar situations so I guess I will just have to wait and see. Thanks
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  #153  
Old 12-19-2014, 9:37 PM
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I think a lot of the denials have to do with poor adult decision making and poor judgement as "adults" more than anything else, that, and a lot alcohol/abuse and related police "contact" incidents resulting in involuntary jail detentions until sober. Are some of you really being serious here?? I really don't blame the Sheriff, as I don't believe most of the folks being denied for those judgment lapses were truly "first time offenders". Patterns of poor decision making once an adult are easily predictable and those folks should not be permitted to carry lethal tools, let alone lethal "concealed" tools "blessed" by the political jurisdictions top law enforcement officer. I know dozens of people who have received their permits under this Sheriff and know of their lack of arrests and track record of good moral character and standing. Keep in mind, decisions one makes as an adult have consequences, that's life. Drunkards, dopers and people who fight with police as ADULTS have no business expecting to be treated as stellar upstanding citizens of good moral character. You're not the same as the folks who have avoided your lapses of good judgement / decision. IMHO, If you're not "squeaky clean", I don't want you carrying anything concealed, period.

My apologies to some of you criminal offenders who were denied, but believed they were entitled to a CCW are offended, but you've made your own bed so to speak. My suggestion is to wait at least 10 years after the date of your last poor decision / police contact., or move to a state that permits drunks, dopers and disorderly conduct types the ability to carry concealed. I don't know of any off hand. Anyone?
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  #154  
Old 12-20-2014, 6:09 PM
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Default SACRAMENTO NON-Prohibited Persons Denied CCW? Click HERE

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Originally Posted by Rthomas1993 View Post
I am new to calguns and I had my first appointment for ccw in Sacramento county today. I have no convictions and no criminal record. I am an Eagle Scout as well. However I did admit to using marijuana a single time in middle school (2007) and I am now 21 and this was over 7 years ago. Is this grounds for denial based on good moral character? Even if I was honest and it was really only one time?

You are NOT gonna be denied for that. That's my guess. I have no special insight into the habits and policies of SSD on this issue, but my guess is probably a pretty good one based on what's been reported in the other Sacramento County threads over the last few years. Yeah, it'd be better if you were 40 instead of 21 and had used it once when you were 13 or 14, but still.
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Old 06-03-2015, 7:37 PM
JayChris35 JayChris35 is offline
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Hi guys I Just received a denial of for a CCW.

I have one speed contest that was reduced from a misdemeanor to an infraction back in 2006 which is obviously not on my driving record but still on my record with the department.

I also was arrested for shoplifting and conspiracy for shoplifting and charges were dropped the very next day back in 2008. all I have is an intake record for that.

My license was suspended while I was going through the interview for the ccw.

There was an issue with child support and they fixed the very same day.

I work armed security and have licenses through BSIS and had this since 2003. I also have a top secret clearance. or did with my last job last year that I no longer work for.

My ex girlfriend tried to put a restraining order against me back in 2013 but was dropped the next day with a mutual agreed family court non law enforcement stay away order.

I need this ccw to move up further with my work right now. I put the reason for the ccw was for Work and personal protection. Anyway this denial letter states "Your request for issuance of a Concealed Weapons Permit from the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department has been denied. At this tim, the sheriff does not find you to be a good candidate o be the recipient of a concealed weapons permit. You may have a weapon at home and in your business. if your circumstances change and you wish to re-apply, you may do so after one year from the date of denial." Which is May 28, 2015.

When I say I need for my work I am saying I need it to work Executive security for the company I am employed with. Also I summited a letter from my employer stating this for help. Any suggestions and what I may need to appeal this?

Last edited by Librarian; 06-03-2015 at 7:52 PM.. Reason: wot
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Old 06-04-2015, 8:53 AM
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That's a lot of issues, possibly too many to overcome. An appeal costs nothing, however. The instructions on how to appeal are listed on SSD's website.
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Old 06-04-2015, 8:54 AM
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http://www.sacsheriff.com/Pages/Orga.../SIIB/CCW.aspx

"Overview of the Application Appeals Process:

All applicants will receive notice in writing regarding the approval or denial of their application. Applicants who are denied a concealed weapons permit will be advised of the reason for the denial. Applicants may appeal if their application for a permit is denied. All appeals must be submitted in writing to:

Sacramento County Sheriff’s Department
Attention: Gun Permits
2101 Hurley way
Sacramento, CA 95825

Written appeals should be specific, clearly outlining the applicant’s rebuttal to the reason stated for denial. Additional information, which may be pertinent to the applicants request for a permit should also be included. Note: Appeals must be received by the Sheriff’s Department no later than (30) thirty days from the date of the notification letter."
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Old 06-27-2015, 1:12 AM
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I just emailed ohsmiley this and I want all your input also. Just wondering if I have a chance at a CCW. Here's the email.

I'm planning on trying to get my CCW at the beginning of next year and I'm wondering if I have a chance. I got a fired from a job in ?March? 2008 for theft (stole camera from customer) and a DUI in August of the same year. I was 21 (I'll be 29 in November) at the time. I got bailed out after 1 night and was supposed to go back to do my other night but I forgot to, so I got a bench warrant and went to court and fixed it (finished my time for the DUI). I also failed a drug test for a job in 2009 or 2010 (I forgot), but haven't touched weed since. Other than that just a few moving violations, exhibition of speed being the worst (did a burnout.) Do you think I have a chance? Again a plan on trying the beginning of next year, tax time.
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Old 06-27-2015, 4:59 PM
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Default SACRAMENTO NON-Prohibited Persons Denied CCW? Click HERE

With all that, especially as recent as it was? Virtually no chance. Especially with the theft. I only say "virtually" to be consistent with my agnostic philosophy. I don't think I can know anything to an ABSOLUTE certainty, but this comes close.
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Old 06-29-2015, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyguy91 View Post
I just emailed ohsmiley this and I want all your input also. Just wondering if I have a chance at a CCW. Here's the email.

I'm planning on trying to get my CCW at the beginning of next year and I'm wondering if I have a chance. I got a fired from a job in ?March? 2008 for theft (stole camera from customer) and a DUI in August of the same year. I was 21 (I'll be 29 in November) at the time. I got bailed out after 1 night and was supposed to go back to do my other night but I forgot to, so I got a bench warrant and went to court and fixed it (finished my time for the DUI). I also failed a drug test for a job in 2009 or 2010 (I forgot), but haven't touched weed since. Other than that just a few moving violations, exhibition of speed being the worst (did a burnout.) Do you think I have a chance? Again a plan on trying the beginning of next year, tax time.
It is unlikely that the Sacramento County Sheriff will issue to you a permit to carry a concealed firearm. They have, over the last few years, greatly heightened their "moral character" standards to a frustrating degree. Even before this shift, I am doubtful that they would have issued a permit absent some very compelling evidence of rehabilitation/mitigation.

I feel strongly that you are constitutionally entitled to a permit but until we have a final ruling in Peruta, Richards (my case), or another similarly situated case, we have no means to compel the Sheriff to issue a permit.

-Adam Richards
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