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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 03-09-2019, 4:42 PM
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Default Locking CCW in car

Does anyone know what the law is regarding leaving your firearm in you car. If you are going someplace that you can't carry and you need to leave your handgun in your car (locked up of course), do you have to unload the gun, or can it be left loaded?
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2019, 5:00 PM
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Loaded is fine as long as you aren't on a prohibited location, such as a school ground.
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Old 03-09-2019, 5:04 PM
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Curious of whom the car is registered to matters?
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Old 03-09-2019, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarosa View Post
Loaded is fine as long as you aren't on a prohibited location, such as a school ground.
Does that include the parking area when picking someone from school without leaving the car?
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Old 03-09-2019, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by faris1984 View Post
Does that include the parking area when picking someone from school without leaving the car?
Legally yes, same with if you need stamps at the Post office. I hate leaving my firearm alone in the car, even if I crack the window.
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:05 AM
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I wonder who would know if it were loaded or not.
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Old 03-10-2019, 5:42 AM
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It is illegal to leave your loaded weapon locked in your car. It must be unloaded and locked in a lock box!
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Old 03-10-2019, 7:24 AM
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Big jake I think you are incorrect, but I’m at work and don’t have time to look up the code.
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Old 03-10-2019, 8:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jake View Post
It is illegal to leave your loaded weapon locked in your car. It must be unloaded and locked in a lock box!
We are talking about a CCW, not simple transport. Sometimes you need to go into a federal building or other gun free zones when that happens your best option is to leave it in the car.
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Old 03-10-2019, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jake View Post
It is illegal to leave your loaded weapon locked in your car. It must be unloaded and locked in a lock box!

If you have a CCW, it just needs to be locked up....not unloaded.

.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
We are talking about a CCW, not simple transport. Sometimes you need to go into a federal building or other gun free zones when that happens your best option is to leave it in the car.
It must be locked in a container. Not glove box or console.
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jake View Post
It must be locked in a container. Not glove box or console.


That sort of goes without saying. Like “before you drive you must open the door”. And if you carry you probably have a car safe. But if you don’t carry legally you wouldn’t know that


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Old 03-10-2019, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
That sort of goes without saying. Like “before you drive you must open the door”. And if you carry you probably have a car safe. But if you don’t carry legally you wouldn’t know that


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incorrect , I think we discussed that many times here and even some provided the law for this case.
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Old 03-10-2019, 3:03 PM
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A person with a valid CA CCW permit is exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws and CA concealed carry laws. [PC 25655 and 26010]

An unloaded handgun in a locked container is exempt from CA concealed carry laws. [PC 25610]

A loaded handgun in a locked container is not exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws. [PC 25850]

CA criminal storage of firearms laws requires a handgun, when left in a vehicle, to be in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in a hidden locked container that is attached to the vehicle or in the vehicle's trunk. [PC 25612 and 25140]

Therefore...

If the person does not have a valid CA CCW permit, then any handgun they leave in a vehicle needs to be unloaded and in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's trunk.

If the person has a valid CA CCW permit, then any handgun (that is listed on their permit) they leave in a vehicle needs to be in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's trunk.
^There is no requirement (except when on school/college property) for the handgun (listed on their CA CCW permit) to be unloaded, due to the person being exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws.
*If the handgun is not listed on their CA CCW permit, then there is no exemptions to CA loaded firearm in public laws and CA concealed carry laws. Is treated as if not having a valid CA CCW permit.
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Last edited by Quiet; 03-10-2019 at 3:09 PM..
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  #15  
Old 03-10-2019, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faris1984 View Post
incorrect , I think we discussed that many times here and even some provided the law for this case.
What was incorrect? you don't open the door first before you drive? And what was discussed many times? I never stated any law, just common sense.

To each there own, but if I go into a public place where it is illegal to carry, I return to the car and place it in a car safe, locked. But this is assuming I carry who knows I probably don't.

But seriously, what am I incorrect on, just curious where I may have been unclear.
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  #16  
Old 03-10-2019, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
...

^There is no requirement (except when on school/college property) for the handgun (listed on their CA CCW permit) to be unloaded, due to the person being exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws.
...

Am I correct in understanding, for clarification purposes, that no handgun may be taken on to school/college property - regardless of CA CCW permit, unloaded, locked in a container, stored out of sight, in a vehicle - because that exemption was removed?


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  #17  
Old 03-10-2019, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by WASR10 View Post
Am I correct in understanding, for clarification purposes, that no handgun may be taken on to school/college property - regardless of CA CCW permit, unloaded, locked in a container, stored out of sight, in a vehicle - because that exemption was removed?
For schools (K-12)...
It is still CA legal to have an unloaded handgun in a locked container in a vehicle or in the vehicle's trunk, while on property. [PC 626.9(c)(2)]
In addition, unless exempt, ammo needs to be in a locked container in a vehicle or in the vehicle's trunk, while on property. [PC 30310(b)(10)]

For colleges/universities...
Unless exempt, it is not legal to have a firearm on property. [PC 626.9(i)]
^Even if it is unloaded and in a locked container in a vehicle or in the vehicle's trunk.



Penal Code 626.9
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law.
(i) Notwithstanding Section 25605, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.

Penal Code 30310
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(10)(A) A person carrying ammunition or reloaded ammunition onto school grounds that is in a motor vehicle at all times and is within a locked container or within the locked trunk of the vehicle.
(B) For purposes of this paragraph, the term “locked container” has the same meaning as set forth in Section 16850.
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Last edited by Quiet; 03-10-2019 at 6:54 PM..
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  #18  
Old 03-10-2019, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jake View Post
It is illegal to leave your loaded weapon locked in your car. It must be unloaded and locked in a lock box!
stop spewing FUD
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  #19  
Old 03-10-2019, 9:25 PM
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Not seeing anything about if it's your car or not. For instance can one tell their buddy that yes I can lock my loaded gun in a case in their car legally?
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Old 03-10-2019, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
A person with a valid CA CCW permit is exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws and CA concealed carry laws. [PC 25655 and 26010]

An unloaded handgun in a locked container is exempt from CA concealed carry laws. [PC 25610]

A loaded handgun in a locked container is not exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws. [PC 25850]

CA criminal storage of firearms laws requires a handgun, when left in a vehicle, to be in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in a hidden locked container that is attached to the vehicle or in the vehicle's trunk. [PC 25612 and 25140]

Therefore...

If the person does not have a valid CA CCW permit, then any handgun they leave in a vehicle needs to be unloaded and in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's trunk.

If the person has a valid CA CCW permit, then any handgun (that is listed on their permit) they leave in a vehicle needs to be in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's trunk.
^There is no requirement (except when on school/college property) for the handgun (listed on their CA CCW permit) to be unloaded, due to the person being exempt from CA loaded firearm in public laws.
*If the handgun is not listed on their CA CCW permit, then there is no exemptions to CA loaded firearm in public laws and CA concealed carry laws. Is treated as if not having a valid CA CCW permit.
Perfect. Thank you.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:30 PM
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you cannot leave your firearm locked in the car unless it is in a separate locked container. Leaving it in the glove box or leaving it in a center console is not good enough regardless if the car itself is locked. it must be in a separate locked container or locked away in the trunk.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:34 PM
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one other thing of importance to keep in mind, if you plan on going to the post office and you have a concealed carry firearm, Park on the street. Regardless of locked or not, the second you drive into the parking lot you have broken the law as you cannot bring a firearm into a post office and that includes the parking lot. Federal violation
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:37 PM
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  #24  
Old 03-11-2019, 4:53 AM
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Old 03-11-2019, 8:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingransom View Post
one other thing of importance to keep in mind, if you plan on going to the post office and you have a concealed carry firearm, Park on the street. Regardless of locked or not, the second you drive into the parking lot you have broken the law as you cannot bring a firearm into a post office and that includes the parking lot. Federal violation
Wonder how this works where the PO shares a building and parking lot with the local market?
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notpc View Post
Wonder how this works where the PO shares a building and parking lot with the local market?
Postal employees will often suspend their routine car search programs in situations like that.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notpc View Post
Wonder how this works where the PO shares a building and parking lot with the local market?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Postal employees will often suspend their routine car search programs in situations like that.
Just like all the other shared things - the agency sharing the lot does not control the lot; it does control its own space in the shared building.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:29 AM
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Wondering out loud...

Was the ban of firearms on US Post Office property an action taken during the days of their own employees 'going postal'?
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Old 03-11-2019, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith View Post
Wondering out loud...

Was the ban of firearms on US Post Office property an action taken during the days of their own employees 'going postal'?


No, it’s because Post Offices are Federal grounds.


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Old 03-11-2019, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwater View Post
stop spewing FUD
The post right above yours tells you that it is not FUD, just that there is an exemption for permitted persons.
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Old 03-11-2019, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Just like all the other shared things - the agency sharing the lot does not control the lot; it does control its own space in the shared building.
Thank you.
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Old 03-12-2019, 6:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Always wondered about these. If you install this safe in the center console, does it become the center console which would not be considered a locked container for purposes of non-ccw unloaded storage?
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Old 03-12-2019, 7:10 AM
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Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
Always wondered about these. If you install this safe in the center console, does it become the center console which would not be considered a locked container for purposes of non-ccw unloaded storage?
No.

If installed it will meet the locked container req.
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Old 03-12-2019, 7:12 AM
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In my car I put the gun in a pouch which then goes in my trunk. The pouch is to hide the gun from public view before I exit the car to go to the trunk.

In my SUV I lock it in a lockable case: https://www.turners.com/common-sense...le-pist-704664

I am seriously looking to buy one of those Fort Knox Simplex lock equipped mini safes.
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Old 03-12-2019, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
Always wondered about these. If you install this safe in the center console, does it become the center console which would not be considered a locked container for purposes of non-ccw unloaded storage?
It’s basically a safe that is attached to your vehicle. It just happens to be hidden out of sight inside your console. In other words, it’s not your console, it’s a safe attached inside your console. Unlike other locked containers, it can’t be removed (along with your gun) if your vehicle ever gets broken into. It was actually recommended to me by the sheriff’s investigator who did my last CCW renewal. When I told him I already had one, he said, “You’re way ahead of the game.”
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Old 03-12-2019, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
It’s basically a safe that is attached to your vehicle. It just happens to be hidden out of sight inside your console. In other words, it’s not your console, it’s a safe attached inside your console. Unlike other locked containers, it can’t be removed (along with your gun) if your vehicle ever gets broken into. It was actually recommended to me by the sheriff’s investigator who did my last CCW renewal. When I told him I already had one, he said, “You’re way ahead of the game.”
And it meets CA's legal requirements. [PC 25140(a)]
^See part in bold below.


Penal Code 25140
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), a person shall, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle, lock the handgun in the vehicle’s trunk, lock the handgun in a locked container and place the container out of plain view, lock the handgun in a locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle’s interior and not in plain view, or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box.
(b) A peace officer, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle not equipped with a trunk, may, if unable to otherwise comply with subdivision (a), lock the handgun out of plain view within the center utility console of that motor vehicle with a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or other similar locking device.
(c) A violation of subdivision (a) is an infraction punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000).
(d)(1) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(A) “Locked container” means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term “locked container” does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.
(B) “Locked toolbox or utility box” means a fully enclosed container that is permanently affixed to the bed of a pickup truck or vehicle that does not contain a trunk, and is locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or other similar locking device.
(C) “Peace officer” means a sworn officer described in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, or a sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of that officer’s duties, while that officer is on duty or off duty.
(D) “Trunk” means the fully enclosed and locked main storage or luggage compartment of a vehicle that is not accessible from the passenger compartment. A trunk does not include the rear of a hatchback, station wagon, or sport utility vehicle, any compartment which has a window, or a toolbox or utility box attached to the bed of a pickup truck.
(E) “Vehicle” has the same meaning as specified in Section 670 of the Vehicle Code.
(2) For purposes of this section, a vehicle is unattended when a person who is lawfully carrying or transporting a handgun in a vehicle is not within close enough proximity to the vehicle to reasonably prevent unauthorized access to the vehicle or its contents.
(3) For purposes of this section, plain view includes any area of the vehicle that is visible by peering through the windows of the vehicle, including windows that are tinted, with or without illumination.
(e) This section does not apply to a peace officer during circumstances requiring immediate aid or action that are within the course of his or her official duties.
(f) This section does not supersede any local ordinance that regulates the storage of handguns in unattended vehicles if the ordinance was in effect before September 26, 2016.
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  #37  
Old 03-13-2019, 5:35 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jake View Post
It is illegal to leave your loaded weapon locked in your car. It must be unloaded and locked in a lock box!
The question regarded going someplace you can't carry, which indicates the presence of a CCW.
Quote:
25140.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), a person shall, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle, lock the handgun in the vehicle’s trunk, lock the handgun in a locked container and place the container out of plain view, lock the handgun in a locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle’s interior and not in plain view, or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box.
As Quiet noted, the prohibition of carrying a loaded handgun is in effect, but exempted for CCW, so a CCW licensee doesn't have to unload the weapon prior to locking it up. See
Quote:
25850.
(a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
and,
Quote:
PC 26010Section 25850 does not apply to the carrying of any handgun by any person as authorized pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150 ) of Division 5.
//////////////////////
Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
Not seeing anything about if it's your car or not. For instance can one tell their buddy that yes I can lock my loaded gun in a case in their car legally?
The prohibitions against carrying concealed weapons in vehicles covers operators of the vehicle or passengers. The CCW provides an exemption.
Quote:
25400.
(a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when the person does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle that is under the person’s control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon the person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which the person is an occupant.
It would, however, be unfortunate, if the passenger placed the gun, then went home, leaving the non-CCW operator with a loaded gun in the car.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notpc View Post
Wonder how this works where the PO shares a building and parking lot with the local market?
Post Offices fall under 39 U.S.C. § 232.1 Conduct on postal property.
Quote:
(a)(i)This section shall not apply to -

(i) Any portions of real property, owned or leased by the Postal Service, that are leased or subleased by the Postal Service to private tenants for their exclusive use;...
If property owned or leased by the PO but leased to private enterprise isn't covered, then private enterprise adjacent to the PO isn't covered.

//////////////
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith View Post
Wondering out loud...

Was the ban of firearms on US Post Office property an action taken during the days of their own employees 'going postal'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
No, it’s because Post Offices are Federal grounds.
Federal Buildings are covered by 18 U.S. Code § 930 Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities.

Post Offices fall under 39 U.S.C. § 232.1 Conduct on postal property.
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  #38  
Old 03-13-2019, 9:26 AM
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JohnnieBoy JohnnieBoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Therefore...

If the person does not have a valid CA CCW permit, then any handgun they leave in a vehicle needs to be unloaded and in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's trunk.

If the person has a valid CA CCW permit, then any handgun (that is listed on their permit) they leave in a vehicle needs to be in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's trunk.
...AND attached to the vehicle, whether tethered (cable) or bolted.
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2019, 9:54 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Therefore...

If the person does not have a valid CA CCW permit, then any handgun they leave in a vehicle needs to be unloaded and in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's trunk.

If the person has a valid CA CCW permit, then any handgun (that is listed on their permit) they leave in a vehicle needs to be in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's trunk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieBoy View Post
...AND attached to the vehicle, whether tethered (cable) or bolted.
Quiet and I cited this earlier:
Quote:
25140.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), a person shall, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle, lock the handgun in the vehicle’s trunk, lock the handgun in a locked container and place the container out of plain view, lock the handgun in a locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle’s interior and not in plain view, or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box.
The language, "...or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box," came about to accommodate the use of after-market storage containers affixed to the vehicle so they wouldn't be confused with the prohibited "utility container" of statute. At this point, the container doesn't need to be affixed or cabled to the vehicle.

(A new legislative effort would change that).
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  #40  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:32 AM
wichlaz wichlaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieBoy View Post
...AND attached to the vehicle, whether tethered (cable) or bolted.
child safety seat top tethers that are on the floor of the car/truck work great for this I have a safe that has a bracket bolted to the floor of my cargo space. BUT it also comes with a cable. So if I'm in someone else's car because we're traveling together, I can easily use the cable to attach it to their child seat tethers if they are installed in the floor of the truck/cargo area of the car I do that in my son's car.
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