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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1601  
Old 05-18-2019, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post
Artemis just emailed this to their customers/clients:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis Defense
CCW Renewal UPDATE:
Straight from OCSD....

BACK LOGGED!!!

CCW Holders, look at your expiration date right now and MARK YOUR CALENDARS for 90 Days before that expiration! They are BACK LOGGED and you will need to start your RENEWAL Process on the 90 Day Mark.

If you DO NOT and you wait until right before it expires, you may end up having to do the whole INITIAL PROCESS all over again!

AGAIN, THEY ARE BACK LOGGED!! DO NOT WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE!!

If your permit expires, you will not be able to carry in until it is reinstated.

Make sure you upload ALL YOUR DOCUMENTATION into the online portal at the time of your Renewal Submission.
What if someone waited a week before expiration to complete the online renewal process (with completed training)?

I would think that if it was not renewed in time before the expiration date, then they would NOT have to start from scratch.
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  #1602  
Old 05-19-2019, 3:39 PM
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I will be up for my first renewal soon. To my understanding I will need to submit my training certificate, DL, proof of residency, GC statement and any support documents for my GC through the online portal. Do I still need to go in and do a face to face interview like my initial application? Will I need to complete another live scan?
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  #1603  
Old 05-23-2019, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Browneye View Post
Same. With the courses online they can be done any time, then an hour for range time. Easy-peasy.

Submitting a training cert ahead of time just speeds up your app the amount of time it takes you to complete it.
While submitting your training cert ahead of time can speed things up, it may also backfire. I received an email from a deputy asking for better good cause. Submitted good cause with proof via online system. A month later(2 days ago), I get the email: ‘Your application for CCW renewal has been denied’. What’s funny is about 5 weeks prior to my denial notice, I received a reply email to a question regarding training I sent to CCW staff, in which they replied: ‘If nothing has changed in your background since your initial application in regards to law enforcement contact, you may take your training course.’ It went on to say that if anything has changed in regards to LE contact, it may jeopardize the final decision in my application and they won’t refund the money for my training(I already knew that last part). Nothing has changed. No LE contact whatsoever, not even a parking ticket since before my initial CCW issue in 2013. Yet I was denied for the first time. In my case, It was a good thing I did NOT proceed with training first. So for those reading this doing renewal, unless losing out on $ IF you get denied doesn’t bother you that much, I’d do what I did and wait until you get the conditional approval email first before taking your training course.
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  #1604  
Old 05-23-2019, 9:01 AM
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Originally Posted by John172 View Post
While submitting your training cert ahead of time can speed things up, it may also backfire. I received an email from a deputy asking for better good cause. Submitted good cause with proof via online system. A month later(2 days ago), I get the email: ‘Your application for CCW renewal has been denied’. What’s funny is about 5 weeks prior to my denial notice, I received a reply email to a question regarding training I sent to CCW staff, in which they replied: ‘If nothing has changed in your background since your initial application in regards to law enforcement contact, you may take your training course.’ It went on to say that if anything has changed in regards to LE contact, it may jeopardize the final decision in my application and they won’t refund the money for my training(I already knew that last part). Nothing has changed. No LE contact whatsoever, not even a parking ticket since before my initial CCW issue in 2013. Yet I was denied for the first time. In my case, It was a good thing I did NOT proceed with training first. So for those reading this doing renewal, unless losing out on $ IF you get denied doesn’t bother you that much, I’d do what I did and wait until you get the conditional approval email first before taking your training course.
^^This.
It simply does not make much difference - just the time for you to schedule and complete your training. A lot of the guys here are proactive with it and naturally think everybody should do the same thing. It's just not necessary. And why I mentioned the online thing - I got that done in a day and scheduled the range time a few days later, so it was all done in less than a week. No delays in permit issuance.

For the renewal - no live scan again, no interview, just send your renewal in and update your GCS. They'll ask for anything additional they need/want, and advise you to submit your training certificate if you didn't do that already.
In my case I simply stated that there were no changes to my statement, and it was never brought up again. They wanted new verification of employment is all. Once approved you show up for a new photo and card.

Too many make this too complicated and stress out over it - it's just not necessary.
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  #1605  
Old 05-23-2019, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Browneye View Post
^^This.

It simply does not make much difference - just the time for you to schedule and complete your training. A lot of the guys here are proactive with it and naturally think everybody should do the same thing. It's just not necessary. And why I mentioned the online thing - I got that done in a day and scheduled the range time a few days later, so it was all done in less than a week. No delays in permit issuance.



For the renewal - no live scan again, no interview, just send your renewal in and update your GCS. They'll ask for anything additional they need/want, and advise you to submit your training certificate if you didn't do that already.

In my case I simply stated that there were no changes to my statement, and it was never brought up again. They wanted new verification of employment is all. Once approved you show up for a new photo and card.



Too many make this too complicated and stress out over it - it's just not necessary.


Great info. Thanks!


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  #1606  
Old 05-23-2019, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by John172 View Post
While submitting your training cert ahead of time can speed things up, it may also backfire. I received an email from a deputy asking for better good cause. Submitted good cause with proof via online system. A month later(2 days ago), I get the email: ‘Your application for CCW renewal has been denied’. What’s funny is about 5 weeks prior to my denial notice, I received a reply email to a question regarding training I sent to CCW staff, in which they replied: ‘If nothing has changed in your background since your initial application in regards to law enforcement contact, you may take your training course.’ It went on to say that if anything has changed in regards to LE contact, it may jeopardize the final decision in my application and they won’t refund the money for my training(I already knew that last part). Nothing has changed. No LE contact whatsoever, not even a parking ticket since before my initial CCW issue in 2013. Yet I was denied for the first time. In my case, It was a good thing I did NOT proceed with training first. So for those reading this doing renewal, unless losing out on $ IF you get denied doesn’t bother you that much, I’d do what I did and wait until you get the conditional approval email first before taking your training course.
So you had your permit, but they denied you on the renewal, and you haven't had any negative contact that would cause that? That's messed up.
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  #1607  
Old 05-23-2019, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by John172 View Post
While submitting your training cert ahead of time can speed things up, it may also backfire. I received an email from a deputy asking for better good cause. Submitted good cause with proof via online system. A month later(2 days ago), I get the email: ‘Your application for CCW renewal has been denied’. What’s funny is about 5 weeks prior to my denial notice, I received a reply email to a question regarding training I sent to CCW staff, in which they replied: ‘If nothing has changed in your background since your initial application in regards to law enforcement contact, you may take your training course.’ It went on to say that if anything has changed in regards to LE contact, it may jeopardize the final decision in my application and they won’t refund the money for my training(I already knew that last part). Nothing has changed. No LE contact whatsoever, not even a parking ticket since before my initial CCW issue in 2013. Yet I was denied for the first time. In my case, It was a good thing I did NOT proceed with training first. So for those reading this doing renewal, unless losing out on $ IF you get denied doesn’t bother you that much, I’d do what I did and wait until you get the conditional approval email first before taking your training course.

If there are no material facts that have changed, it's difficult to understand why you got denied this time. Did your good cause change since the last renewal? Did they even receive it?
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  #1608  
Old 05-24-2019, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
So you had your permit, but they denied you on the renewal, and you haven't had any negative contact that would cause that? That's messed up.
Yes I had my permit since 2013. No negative contact. If anything I’ve had positive LE contact since I took LE prep classes at OCSA last fall and enrolled in a police citizens academy currently. The prep classes and citizens academy are taught by full time sworn LE, or retired LE. And it’s not messed up, I hope my post didn’t come off as spiteful. I just posted because I wanted to caution others that despite someone like me who has had a permit for years and no negative LE contact during that time, you can still get denied. I feel there are some people that get denied on here and out of frustration or anger, they don’t post about it. I think we all need to let others know not just when and if we get approved, but also when we get denied. I feel that’s just as important.
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  #1609  
Old 05-24-2019, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by John172 View Post
Yes I had my permit since 2013. No negative contact. If anything I’ve had positive LE contact since I took LE prep classes at OCSA last fall and enrolled in a police citizens academy currently. The prep classes and citizens academy are taught by full time sworn LE, or retired LE. And it’s not messed up, I hope my post didn’t come off as spiteful. I just posted because I wanted to caution others that despite someone like me who has had a permit for years and no negative LE contact during that time, you can still get denied. I feel there are some people that get denied on here and out of frustration or anger, they don’t post about it. I think we all need to let others know not just when and if we get approved, but also when we get denied. I feel that’s just as important.
Well, thanks for sharing. Have you followed up to find out more information behind the denial? If what you say is true, then it doesn't really make sense why you'd get a denial.
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  #1610  
Old 05-24-2019, 6:16 PM
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Originally Posted by caliberetta View Post
If there are no material facts that have changed, it's difficult to understand why you got denied this time. Did your good cause change since the last renewal? Did they even receive it?
Nothing changed. Im the same person living at the same address and unemployed same as last time. No negative LE contact. Im pursuing a career in LE currently and plan to start applying in July when I’m done with my training. Same GC statement as last time and it worked then. So aside from the current career plans as stated, nothing major or minor has really changed. My guess is they did receive everything including the additional documentation they asked for. I saw it upload without issue via the new online system, no ‘error’ or ‘failed to upload’ message or notes after the upload.
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  #1611  
Old 05-24-2019, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
Well, thanks for sharing. Have you followed up to find out more information behind the denial? If what you say is true, then it doesn't really make sense why you'd get a denial.
All I have is the denial email in which it states my GC statement was insufficient and/or they didn’t receive the documentation. I did email them once more after asking if for sure they received my additional documents they asked for, but haven’t received a reply yet. I admit it is kind of odd based on my circumstances not changing that I would get denied, but then again, we are a May issue county.
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  #1612  
Old 05-24-2019, 8:10 PM
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All I have is the denial email in which it states my GC statement was insufficient and/or they didn’t receive the documentation. I did email them once more after asking if for sure they received my additional documents they asked for, but haven’t received a reply yet. I admit it is kind of odd based on my circumstances not changing that I would get denied, but then again, we are a May issue county.
If you wish to pursue the matter further, you might consider asking a lawyer. Another forum member was in a similar situation and reported success, though the thread appears to have been deleted. Their Web site plainly states that talking with them will cost you nothing.
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  #1613  
Old 05-24-2019, 10:34 PM
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Nothing changed. Im the same person living at the same address and unemployed same as last time. No negative LE contact. Im pursuing a career in LE currently and plan to start applying in July when I’m done with my training. Same GC statement as last time and it worked then. So aside from the current career plans as stated, nothing major or minor has really changed. My guess is they did receive everything including the additional documentation they asked for. I saw it upload without issue via the new online system, no ‘error’ or ‘failed to upload’ message or notes after the upload.

You seem to be taking this very well. I think most of us would be pretty pissed off at not getting renewed, when nothing of importance has changed.

I believe you can appeal the decision. Perhaps you can call and ask what the process is for a reconsideration, finding a means to state that nothing has really changed since the last time. You'll never know, what if it's mistaken identity? I wish you the best of luck. If you are comfortable with sharing how it goes for you going forward I'm sure most of us would be interested in your story, in the name of science of course
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  #1614  
Old 05-27-2019, 2:44 AM
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All I have is the denial email in which it states my GC statement was insufficient and/or they didn’t receive the documentation. I did email them once more after asking if for sure they received my additional documents they asked for, but haven’t received a reply yet. I admit it is kind of odd based on my circumstances not changing that I would get denied, but then again, we are a May issue county.
I am up for renewal. I sent in the exact same GC statement and the supporting documentation as I did on the last renewal.

Just got an email from them asking for bank statements, invoices, vehicle registrations etc..

My guess is that they decided to be more stringent and cut down on the number of CCWs that have been issued to date.
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  #1615  
Old 05-27-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by tanks View Post
I am up for renewal. I sent in the exact same GC statement and the supporting documentation as I did on the last renewal.

Just got an email from them asking for bank statements, invoices, vehicle registrations etc..

My guess is that they decided to be more stringent and cut down on the number of CCWs that have been issued to date.
If they are really cutting down on the number of CCW’s, then those who are denied are keeping quiet about it. I did a search on this thread using ‘denied’ and ‘denial’ and mine is the only one that comes up. Or they just started now to be more stringent, and I’m the first of more to follow. The coming months will show that. Make sure you post your results people, approval and denial. Thanks.
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  #1616  
Old 05-27-2019, 11:26 AM
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Looks like everyone that voted for Don Barnes got duped.
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  #1617  
Old 05-27-2019, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by John172 View Post
If they are really cutting down on the number of CCW’s, then those who are denied are keeping quiet about it. I did a search on this thread using ‘denied’ and ‘denial’ and mine is the only one that comes up. Or they just started now to be more stringent, and I’m the first of more to follow. The coming months will show that. Make sure you post your results people, approval and denial. Thanks.
Highly doubt they're cutting down on issuing. It looks like they're just asking for additional documentation. I've used the same GC for my last renewal and each time was asked for additional documentation. I submitted and was approved. So there has to be more to the story than just a denial without any reason from OCSD.
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  #1618  
Old 05-27-2019, 3:05 PM
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Highly doubt they're cutting down on issuing. It looks like they're just asking for additional documentation. I've used the same GC for my last renewal and each time was asked for additional documentation. I submitted and was approved. So there has to be more to the story than just a denial without any reason from OCSD.
Aside from everything I’ve already stated in my above replies, there really isn’t more to the story. At least not on my end. If there is more to the story, it’s something out of my control, unaware of and it’s on CCW’s staff end. I also used the same GC for last renewal(which worked then) and submitted additional documentation when asked. The Official Reason: ‘The requirement of good cause was not satisfied because it did not meet the criteria set forth in OCSD Policy 218, and/or was not supported by proper documentation’. If something changes for the better, I’ll give an update on here.
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  #1619  
Old 05-28-2019, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by John172 View Post
If they are really cutting down on the number of CCW’s, then those who are denied are keeping quiet about it. I did a search on this thread using ‘denied’ and ‘denial’ and mine is the only one that comes up. Or they just started now to be more stringent, and I’m the first of more to follow. The coming months will show that. Make sure you post your results people, approval and denial. Thanks.
I agree with you John. There has to be a few that has been denied after their renewal and are keeping quiet about it.

Thanks for keeping us informed. I'm in the process now myself on renewal and ill update if approved or denied.
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  #1620  
Old 05-29-2019, 5:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tanks View Post
I am up for renewal. I sent in the exact same GC statement and the supporting documentation as I did on the last renewal.

Just got an email from them asking for bank statements, invoices, vehicle registrations etc..

My guess is that they decided to be more stringent and cut down on the number of CCWs that have been issued to date.

For residence verification? If not, what for?

Invoices? Huh?

.
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  #1621  
Old 05-29-2019, 6:02 AM
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For residence verification? If not, what for?

Invoices? Huh?

.
Part of my GC statement was a business I own. Last time my business license was sufficient this year they wanted a recent bank statement and invoices to clients.

They wanted vehicle registration for the "camping" portion of my GC. Last time no other proof was needed.

It is kinda frustrating as Riverside county next door finds "self defense" sufficient enough for GC.
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Last edited by tanks; 05-29-2019 at 12:55 PM.. Reason: Fixed county with SD GC.
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  #1622  
Old 05-29-2019, 8:01 AM
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Part of my GC statement was a business I own. Last time my business license was sufficient this year they wanted a recent bank statement and invoices to clients.

They wanted vehicle registration for the "camping" portion of my GC. Last time no other proof was needed.

It is kinda frustrating as San Bernardino next door finds "self defense" sufficient enough for GC.

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  #1623  
Old 05-30-2019, 9:14 AM
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Originally Posted by John172 View Post
While submitting your training cert ahead of time can speed things up, it may also backfire. I received an email from a deputy asking for better good cause. Submitted good cause with proof via online system. A month later(2 days ago), I get the email: ‘Your application for CCW renewal has been denied’. What’s funny is about 5 weeks prior to my denial notice, I received a reply email to a question regarding training I sent to CCW staff, in which they replied: ‘If nothing has changed in your background since your initial application in regards to law enforcement contact, you may take your training course.’ It went on to say that if anything has changed in regards to LE contact, it may jeopardize the final decision in my application and they won’t refund the money for my training(I already knew that last part). Nothing has changed. No LE contact whatsoever, not even a parking ticket since before my initial CCW issue in 2013. Yet I was denied for the first time. In my case, It was a good thing I did NOT proceed with training first. So for those reading this doing renewal, unless losing out on $ IF you get denied doesn’t bother you that much, I’d do what I did and wait until you get the conditional approval email first before taking your training course.
Does this mean you now have to disclose you were previously denied every time you apply?
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:27 AM
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Does this mean you now have to disclose you were previously denied every time you apply?
Yes. At least with OC I’d have to. If I remember correctly, it does ask on the application if you had a CCW before and if you were ever denied.
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Old 05-31-2019, 1:34 PM
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You didn't piss off Greg Block did you?

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It wasn’t long before the power of Block’s OCSD connections went to his head. Archived forum posts from the now-defunct website show that Greg Block held his insider influence in a threatening manner over the heads of potential gun permit applicants, going as far as reaching inside the department to sabotage the application of an individual who dared to question interim Sheriff Jack Anderson’s policy.
https://www.fullertonsfuture.org/200...or-oc-sheriff/
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:05 AM
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Nothing changed. Im the same person living at the same address and unemployed same as last time.
Since they ask for employment verification each time, I figured that employment was a prerequisite for a permit. Is it not?
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Old 06-13-2019, 2:36 AM
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Since they ask for employment verification each time, I figured that employment was a prerequisite for a permit. Is it not?
As far as I know, it is not. I was unemployed last time I applied for my renewal, stated so on my application and was approved.
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  #1628  
Old 06-13-2019, 4:45 AM
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Since they ask for employment verification each time, I figured that employment was a prerequisite for a permit. Is it not?
If that were the case none of the stay at home Mom's or retired folks would have CCW's.
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Old 06-13-2019, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mag+1 View Post
Since they ask for employment verification each time, I figured that employment was a prerequisite for a permit. Is it not?
They want to know who you work for if you work. And if there's any mention in your GCS of your work or job then they require verification.

Otherwise no, it's not a prerequisite.

OCSD wants good records on their permittees, where they live and work, it's part of the statute, and it's just good management of people that are permitted to carry a weapon in public. A lot of it is simply to CYA - theirs, in the case you do something stupid with your gun.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:48 PM
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They want to know who you work for if you work. And if there's any mention in your GCS of your work or job then they require verification.

Otherwise no, it's not a prerequisite.

OCSD wants good records on their permittees, where they live and work, it's part of the statute, and it's just good management of people that are permitted to carry a weapon in public. A lot of it is simply to CYA - theirs, in the case you do something stupid with your gun.

The last paragraph is most probably right.

On the first one, not so. My GC statement on my most recent 2019 OCSD renewal was unrelated to my employment. It was almost exactly the same GC I submitted in 2017 (the only difference being the activity dates). However, the supporting materials required in 2019 were more stringent than they were two years ago. This time, they required (among other things) verification of my employment. This was not required from me last time.
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Old 06-14-2019, 8:33 AM
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The last paragraph is most probably right.

On the first one, not so. My GC statement on my most recent 2019 OCSD renewal was unrelated to my employment. It was almost exactly the same GC I submitted in 2017 (the only difference being the activity dates). However, the supporting materials required in 2019 were more stringent than they were two years ago. This time, they required (among other things) verification of my employment. This was not required from me last time.
How does that make it 'not so'? They require employment verification if you claim to be employed. [shrug] I had to provide a letter both on my original app and a renewal. Perhaps there are some applicants that have not claimed they have a job.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:51 PM
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How does that make it 'not so'? They require employment verification if you claim to be employed. [shrug] I had to provide a letter both on my original app and a renewal. Perhaps there are some applicants that have not claimed they have a job.

It was "not so" because you said "... if there's any mention in your GCS of your work or job then they require verification."

I made no mention of my job on my most recent GCS (which is unrelated to my work). Yet, I was required to provide verification of employment. This was not required on my previous renewal, even if I stated that I was employed on the application.

Last edited by caliberetta; 06-14-2019 at 11:04 PM..
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Old 06-17-2019, 7:46 AM
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It was "not so" because you said "... if there's any mention in your GCS of your work or job then they require verification."

I made no mention of my job on my most recent GCS (which is unrelated to my work). Yet, I was required to provide verification of employment. This was not required on my previous renewal, even if I stated that I was employed on the application.
Well that's all fine and good, but you left out the first half of that sentence. Cherry picked to argue.

If they ask for verification of employment plan to provide it if you want your permit.
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Old 06-17-2019, 9:52 PM
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Well that's all fine and good, but you left out the first half of that sentence. Cherry picked to argue.

If they ask for verification of employment plan to provide it if you want your permit.

Well, you were wrong. Good night.
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Old 06-18-2019, 6:56 AM
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Well, you were wrong. Good night.
No actually, you are wrong. If you fail to provide the documentation they require then you get denied. It's that simple. You can try to mince words all you like, but that is the answer to the question.
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Old 06-18-2019, 8:52 AM
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My permit revolves around my work, so my boss writes a letter every time I come up for renewal.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:19 PM
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No actually, you are wrong. If you fail to provide the documentation they require then you get denied. It's that simple. You can try to mince words all you like, but that is the answer to the question.

Woopty do? Every one knows that.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:39 PM
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Hello all. What is the good cause metric by which we are measured? Does anybody have any tips on the best way to state good cause? Any advice would be appreciated. After reading a few other posts, I'm shook.

Edit: I forgot to add that I'm up for renewal.

Last edited by heavy_sighs; 06-18-2019 at 10:42 PM..
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Old 06-19-2019, 6:08 AM
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Barnes happened.
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Old 06-19-2019, 6:38 AM
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Hello all. What is the good cause metric by which we are measured? Does anybody have any tips on the best way to state good cause? Any advice would be appreciated. After reading a few other posts, I'm shook.

Edit: I forgot to add that I'm up for renewal.
What did you use for your original GCS? You can edit that to fit to your current situation.

Good cause is about fear of grave bodily injury or death, while going about your daily business. It's not about your stuff, although stuff could potentially make you a target of violence. And not at your home, since you can already legally have a firearm at your home. But what about coming and going from your home? Your travels? Where you are required to go for one reason or another?

So this risk of attack could be pretty much anywhere, it's about being able to identify it and articulate it. Crime stats? Incidents? Are you somehow an easy mark as a potential target? For example, I have had multiple back and neck injuries, and I'm old, so unable to physically defend myself if I was attacked. So I have made that declaration in my GCS.

They require something with some semblance of validity in your file, by state statute. If you make factual claims they may ask you to provide verification or validation. If you ask for help they'll help you flesh it out.

Get some peer review if you need it - plenty of old-timers here.
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