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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 05-08-2019, 11:57 PM
Throwawayifyoureugly Throwawayifyoureugly is offline
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Default [San Diego] Clarifications on No Go areas

Hi,

So I read (beginning of) the sticky on "where can I carry" but was hoping to get some county-specific clarifications on where you're not to "Carry a concealed weapon where prohibited." Primarily from a legal standpoint and not just a "tresspasing" standpoint aka private property.

So the easy ones-- no carrying on/during:

* Federal buildings (such as POs, SSA facilities, and federal buildings that have no-weapons signage.

* Military installations

* Courthouses

* On/around prisons.

* Sterile areas of airports -- technically the parking lots and terminal space before checkpoints are okay, but best practice is to head straight to the check in counter if you'll be flying with firearms in checked baggage.

* State legislative facilities and offices

* Gunshows (unless unloaded and don't have ammo)

* Reservations, unless you have permission from the tribe

* Picketing

* Wildlife refuges


Areas I have questions on:

* "'Common carriers" without consent of the carrier.'" -- Are MTS/other public transit vehicles common carriers?

* School campuses --

No more 1000' exclusion zone, correct?

Are parking lots okay? What about the grounds that are "on the property" but outside the gates?

What about the universities which don't necessarily demarcate where their property starts, or share buildings with private companies?

Are preschools "school campuses"?

* "While masked to hide identity" -- does that mean a balaclava? Sunglasses and a hat? A niqab? Tuxedo mask?

* What other county/state property is a no go? Old Town/CA Historic Parks? County Admin building? Missions? City Park facilities?

* Are locations like Gordon Biersch, Ballast Point, and other brewery-restaurants no go, or just no go to the bar area?

Does the CCW permit exempt you from no-firearms rules anywhere?

I'm totally down to read penal codes, but stuff is all over the place so hoping there's a resource already compiled that I just don't know about.

Thanks.

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Last edited by Throwawayifyoureugly; 05-09-2019 at 12:08 AM..
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2019, 3:39 AM
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Answers embedded bold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwawayifyoureugly View Post
Areas I have questions on:

* "'Common carriers" without consent of the carrier.'" -- Are MTS/other public transit vehicles common carriers?
Those are generally interstate; that said, you'll have to check with each one individually - some have policies of their own

* School campuses --

No more 1000' exclusion zone, correct?
Yes, for guns on your license.

Are parking lots okay?
No - must unload and lock

What about the grounds that are "on the property" but outside the gates?

Same as above

What about the universities which don't necessarily demarcate where their property starts

That's explicit in PC 626.9 - no-go

... , or share buildings with private companies?
Like post offices, the rest of the building has no legal problems

Are preschools "school campuses"?
Yes

* "While masked to hide identity" -- does that mean a balaclava? Sunglasses and a hat? A niqab? Tuxedo mask?
Could be; we don't hear about any arrests or license revocations for that

* What other county/state property is a no go? Old Town/CA Historic Parks? County Admin building? Missions? City Park facilities?
You'll have to look for each one

* Are locations like Gordon Biersch, Ballast Point, and other brewery-restaurants no go, or just no go to the bar area?
It's bars that are the no-go area, restaurants are OK; that said, don't drink in public.

Unless, of course, your issuing agency tells you different


Does the CCW permit exempt you from no-firearms rules anywhere?
No; there are no legal implications for ignoring a private-business or residence sign, but your issuing agency may require you to honor such

I'm totally down to read penal codes, but stuff is all over the place so hoping there's a resource already compiled that I just don't know about.

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


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  #3  
Old 05-10-2019, 2:26 PM
Sam Adams Sam Adams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwawayifyoureugly View Post
Hi,

So I read (beginning of) the sticky on "where can I carry" but was hoping to get some county-specific clarifications on where you're not to "Carry a concealed weapon where prohibited." Primarily from a legal standpoint and not just a "tresspasing" standpoint aka private property.

So the easy ones-- no carrying on/during:

* Federal buildings (such as POs, SSA facilities, and federal buildings that have no-weapons signage.

* Military installations

* Courthouses

* On/around prisons.

* Sterile areas of airports -- technically the parking lots and terminal space before checkpoints are okay, but best practice is to head straight to the check in counter if you'll be flying with firearms in checked baggage.

* State legislative facilities and offices

* Gunshows (unless unloaded and don't have ammo)

* Reservations, unless you have permission from the tribe

* Picketing

* Wildlife refuges


Areas I have questions on:

* "'Common carriers" without consent of the carrier.'" -- Are MTS/other public transit vehicles common carriers?

* School campuses --

No more 1000' exclusion zone, correct?

Are parking lots okay? What about the grounds that are "on the property" but outside the gates?

What about the universities which don't necessarily demarcate where their property starts, or share buildings with private companies?

Are preschools "school campuses"?

* "While masked to hide identity" -- does that mean a balaclava? Sunglasses and a hat? A niqab? Tuxedo mask?

* What other county/state property is a no go? Old Town/CA Historic Parks? County Admin building? Missions? City Park facilities?

* Are locations like Gordon Biersch, Ballast Point, and other brewery-restaurants no go, or just no go to the bar area?

Does the CCW permit exempt you from no-firearms rules anywhere?

I'm totally down to read penal codes, but stuff is all over the place so hoping there's a resource already compiled that I just don't know about.

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Try "Legal Heat" app on I Phone. Covers CCW laws in all 50 states and informs which states honor CA permit.
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  #4  
Old 05-10-2019, 3:11 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
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If I may add to Librarian’s earlier synopsis:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwawayifyoureugly View Post
Hi,

So I read (beginning of) the sticky on "where can I carry" but was hoping to get some county-specific clarifications on where you're not to "Carry a concealed weapon where prohibited." Primarily from a legal standpoint and not just a "tresspasing" standpoint aka private property.

So the easy ones-- no carrying on/during:

* State legislative facilities and offices. It’s more than that. See CA PEN 171c, 171d and 171e. 171e is important, as it defines “loaded” in these areas differently than in the general PEN. Start here.

Areas I have questions on:

* "'Common carriers" without consent of the carrier.'" -- Are MTS/other public transit vehicles common carriers? Sometimes these things are really convoluted. Here’s the way LA MetroLink works.

* School campuses --
-No more 1000' exclusion zone, correct?
-Are parking lots okay? What about the grounds that are "on the property" but outside the gates?
-Are preschools "school campuses"?

See: CA PEN 626.9(e)(4)
Quote:
“School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
Pre-K doesn’t appear to be “school grounds”.

Exemptions:
PEN 626.9(c)(5); For CCW, off grounds, but within 1,000 ft.
PEN 626.9(c)(2); For unloaded and locked up firearm;
PEN 30310(10); For ammunition on school grounds locked in car.

Guns and ammo must be locked up BEFORE entering the grounds/parking lot.


-What about the universities which don't necessarily demarcate where their property starts, or share buildings with private companies? See PEN 626.9(h) and (i).

* "While masked to hide identity" -- does that mean a balaclava? Sunglasses and a hat? A niqab? Tuxedo mask? That means anything worn on your face to hide your identity. That seems to imply intent. Example, Halloween masks on Halloween are intended to hide identity. Surgical masks on bad air days have a specific intent, but if you wear one to rob a liquor store, the intent changes. I doubt that a mask wearer will have much opportunity to explain their intent.

* What other county/state property is a no go? Old Town/CA Historic Parks? County Admin building? Missions? City Park facilities? Search agency municipal codes. You’ll be depressed. For example: Sac County has this.
Quote:
9.42.010 Prohibition.
The carrying, transportation, use or possession of dangerous weapons or dangerous articles is prohibited in or upon any building or grounds.
9.42.020 Dangerous Weapon Defined.
As used in this chapter, “dangerous weapon” includes any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slingshot, billy, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, razor with an unguarded blade, and any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used in a club.
* Are locations like Gordon Biersch, Ballast Point, and other brewery-restaurants no go, or just no go to the bar area? With the closure of some Ballast Point locations, customers appear to have already designated them, “No Go” areas.

Does the CCW permit exempt you from no-firearms rules anywhere? Yes, and they are enumerated within the code. But, generally the CCW exempts one from the concealed firearm carry prohibitions and loaded firearm prohibitions of the PEN for firearms capable of being concealed on the person.

I'm totally down to read penal codes, but stuff is all over the place so hoping there's a resource already compiled that I just don't know about.

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
This has some good stuff.

You also should be aware that some folks believe that General CCW carry at polling places is illegal under the Election Code.. They would be wrong, but it would be a painful discussion.

Best.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 05-10-2019 at 3:19 PM..
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  #5  
Old 05-10-2019, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwawayifyoureugly View Post

* Military installations
Each installation/base can set its own policy. Most are restrictive and allow few weapons. Camp Pendleton has a range on base that is open to the public and apparently CCW is allowed on non-restricted areas of the base. You can google their policy and find it but the last time I looked I was surprised at how gun friendly it was for a DoD installation.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
See: CA PEN 626.9(e)(4)
Quote:
“School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
Pre-K doesn’t appear to be “school grounds”.
That's true, but in my experience some Pre-K locations also have K, and I wouldn't want to rely on an officer knowing the difference. IMHO, better to be conservative on the point.
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- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 05-11-2019, 8:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
That's true, but in my experience some Pre-K locations also have K, and I wouldn't want to rely on an officer knowing the difference. IMHO, better to be conservative on the point.
I don’t disagree with caution.

Some observations:
If a pre-K location also contains K, then it’s a school zone.

If we go down this rabbit hole, then we have to define “pre-K”. Are day-care operations run out of people’s homes “pre-K”? If so, this skews completely out of control.

Someone is then bound to pipe in with a request for case law supporting the definition or providing the ubiquitous warning against becoming “a test case.”

But, if this is opinion and caution v. statute, then I’ll add the following “no go zone”: Stay off my yard!

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Old 05-11-2019, 8:18 AM
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no ccw while "picketing".....??
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Old 05-11-2019, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine mil thrill View Post
no ccw while "picketing".....??
CA PEN 17510
Quote:
17510.
(a) Any person who does any of the following acts while engaged in picketing, or other informational activities in a public place relating to a concerted refusal to work, is guilty of a misdemeanor:
(1) Carries concealed upon the person, or within any vehicle which is under the person’s control or direction, any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries a loaded firearm upon the person or within any vehicle that is under the person’s control or direction.
[...]
(c) The following provisions shall not be construed to authorize any conduct described in paragraph (1) of subdivision (a):
(1) Article 2 (commencing with Section 25450) of Chapter 2 of Division 5 of Title 4.
(2) Sections 25615 to 25655, inclusive.
[...]
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:13 AM
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"a concerted refusal to work"............i think that if you are picketing, and have NOT REFUSED TO WORK...........good to go ??
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Old 05-11-2019, 6:54 PM
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The reservation issue is one I hadn't considered before. If a highway cut through a reservation do the reservation laws apply or State?
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Old 05-11-2019, 7:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashycrashy View Post
The reservation issue is one I hadn't considered before. If a highway cut through a reservation do the reservation laws apply or State?
Quiet usually answers this one, but CA has a law that makes CA law apply on reservations.
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- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 05-11-2019, 9:54 PM
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Librarian and DVRJON, thank you for taking the time to comment. The info is very helpful!
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Quiet usually answers this one, but CA has a law that makes CA law apply on reservations.
And in 2016, Quiet said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Public Law 280...
State criminal laws are enforced on Indian Reservations located in Alaska, California, Minnesota, Nebraska, Oregon, and Wisconsin.

State criminal laws are not enforced on Indian Reservations located in non-Public Law 280 States.
Each Indian Reservation will have it's own tribal laws that you will need to abide by.

Therefore...
If the Indian Reservations you are traveling to/are on is located in CA, then CA State firearm laws must be complied with.
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Old 05-16-2019, 9:09 PM
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Say a church meets in a public high school's theater on Sunday. The pastor is ok with one of the members carrying concealed with a permit. Does the restriction still apply?
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Old 05-17-2019, 6:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akjpresby View Post
Say a church meets in a public high school's theater on Sunday. The pastor is ok with one of the members carrying concealed with a permit. Does the restriction still apply?
“...meets in a public high school...”

Look at previous posts providing the definition of “school zone”. Note the absence of exemptions based on time of day/week or purpose.

See: CA PEN 626.9(e)(4)
Quote:
“School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 05-17-2019 at 6:55 AM..
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